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ade234uk
June 12th, 2006, 10:27 AM
I wonder if we will ever see these companies release games for Linux. I would just love to be able one day to visit PC world and just be able to pick a game from the shelf and know that it will install.

I really miss games like Sim City 4 and I have often thought about putting Windows back on just so I can play again, but this really goes against my religion. So I just hope one day we get more games for Linux Ubuntu.

zugu
June 12th, 2006, 10:30 AM
Well, everyone hopes that, but there have been some big names also released under Linux. Neverwinter Nights along with its expansion packs is available for free download on Bioware's site. However, you need to buy a Windows NWN game to use it's serial (how ironic:)). There may be others, but I can't remember them now.

benplaut
June 12th, 2006, 10:33 AM
ID software. Nuff said

glotz
June 12th, 2006, 10:44 AM
I'm sure it will. We're now at a turning point in desktop Linux' history. There are many new cool distros and desktops. XGL/Compis will work just fine where Vista's Aero wouldn't budge. Hardware support is better than ever. Large corporations are embracing Linux. I'm sure the developers will realize the potential of this new market. Games are a very important aspect of Linux' success. It may happen sooner than we think. I bet there are many cool new labels in the works right now. You may be wanting to scratch that itch with Wine or Cedega, etc.

Artificial Intelligence
June 12th, 2006, 10:49 AM
Actually more games are released to/for linux than in the past, but not in Windows scale.

The good thing about limited titles is you can concentrate on the few games you have, in this way you actually getting more for your money, instead of wasting money on every new titles ;)

glotz
June 12th, 2006, 11:08 AM
"Linux for Human Beings". As opposed to what, Linux for Pygmy Marmosets?

Bah, Pygmy Marmosets use BSD all the way...=;

Stormy Eyes
June 12th, 2006, 01:48 PM
I wonder if we will ever see these companies release games for Linux.

No. Any other questions?

Stealth
June 12th, 2006, 01:56 PM
The companies will have to release games on Linux if Ubuntu (and other distros) continue to grow faster...^_^

fireshell
June 12th, 2006, 02:24 PM
Eventually, although I think more development is going into making *nix a desktop environment. Most people are headed towards consoles (xbox, ps3) for their gaming.

Personally (I love linux dont get me wrong) but there will need to be a very big boom in linux users / gamers before companies will start producing mainstream games to run natively.

Xilon
June 12th, 2006, 02:29 PM
It's already happening (ID probably being the major one with Doom and Quake), a lot more will follow in the following years...

I bet Novell, Redhat (although prob not Redhat...), and other commercial linux distro's and sponsers will push linux to teh gaming world and a lot more games and software will emerge

BWF89
June 12th, 2006, 02:47 PM
The companies will have to release games on Linux if Ubuntu (and other distros) continue to grow faster...^_^
Their not going to release games for Linux until we get more standardized. A gaming company now only has to release an installer for Windows. If they moved into the Linux market they would have to release a package for RedHat, one for Gentoo, another for Ubuntu, etc. Unless they just wanted to release a package for the most popular distro (Ubuntu) and let the others compile it themselves, which would probably take days for a game like Half-Life 2.

Now that Ubuntu is becoming sort of the standard to which all other desktop distros are based mabye we'll see more companies start releasing for Linux.

imagine
June 12th, 2006, 02:51 PM
If a game is developed using OpenGL, it's usually not difficult to port it to/run it under Linux. If it uses Micros~1 DirectX you're out of luck. You can try Wine/Cedega but that's about it.

fireshell
June 12th, 2006, 02:57 PM
Also most packages can be made as a .rpm and a .deb binary.. that covers most compatible *nix distros (ubuntu runs from .deb, fedora runs from .rpm, both can install the opposite)

I think thats quite an improvement compared to a few years ago where compatibility between binary formats wasnt so much of a feature

Kimm
June 12th, 2006, 03:17 PM
How About Autopackage?

It seems like a solution very suitable for Multidistro compatability, and its Pretty much a standard at just that. And its easy to use.

I dont get why most Proprietary games for Linux uses... what is it? Loki installer?
It looks REALY bad! and as far as I know there is no uninstall...
Autopackage will rule the universe! :-P

G Morgan
June 12th, 2006, 05:14 PM
I think that the Linux market isn't currently considered one where games would be welcome. Yes there are a few fans but the percentage of gamers using Windows (99.9%) is bigger than the percentage of people using Windows generally (90-95%).

A big help would be if there were a few decent OSS games that were made with Linux in mind. It would at least show the interest in games from an OSS point of view.

der_joachim
June 12th, 2006, 05:16 PM
The companies will have to release games on Linux if Ubuntu (and other distros) continue to grow faster...^_^

Either that, or game companies will switch to consoles. :( Having said that, I sure hope that you are right.

Sheinar
June 12th, 2006, 05:26 PM
Their not going to release games for Linux until we get more standardized. A gaming company now only has to release an installer for Windows. If they moved into the Linux market they would have to release a package for RedHat, one for Gentoo, another for Ubuntu, etc.
Really? Amazing how a lot of current games seem to manage with just one installer for all distros.

Kimm
June 12th, 2006, 06:29 PM
Really? Amazing how a lot of current games seem to manage with just one installer for all distros.

I agree!
Even though it might not seem like it, the Linux desktop is getting more standardized. Theres the desktop standard (to make different parts more interoperable). Theres a larger standard in the working that I believe would solve differences in packages (paths and so on), am I right? Tell me if I'm getting it wrong.

All rpm needs at the moment is pretty much a more standardized (and faster) way of keeping a library of packages for download, like apt-get. When that comes, I think it'll pretty much take over.

Then theres Autopackage (that I talked about earlier), that, even if most distros dont have official support for it, allows the same package to be installed on a wide variety of platforms.

WildTangent
June 12th, 2006, 07:05 PM
id uses .run files for all their game engines on all distros, and they seem to work, and then you just manually copy the pak files from the CD. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for game companies to put a script of some sort on the CDs, and have it somewhat automated.

-Wild

Christmas
June 12th, 2006, 09:24 PM
I played UT, little Quake 4 and Enemy Territory on Ubuntu and they work pretty well. Also some small but very addictive games, SuperTux is my favorite. I still miss Counter-Strike and WarCraft III from Windows, and no ports for them on Linux, I'll try to make them work with Wine.

bonzodog
June 12th, 2006, 09:33 PM
Just to let everyone know, the package manager for Ubuntu IS changing to the Smart Package Manager, as it's developer has been brought into canonicals fold and provided with backing.

WildTangent
June 12th, 2006, 10:16 PM
Just to let everyone know, the package manager for Ubuntu IS changing to the Smart Package Manager, as it's developer has been brought into canonicals fold and provided with backing.
So what, no more use of .deb files for us? Will we even be Debian-based anymore?!

-Wild

givré
June 12th, 2006, 10:49 PM
Of course not, they will only change apt-get to smart.
They change just the package manager, not the package (hopfully)
More info: http://labix.org/smart

fireshell
June 13th, 2006, 02:09 AM
The other thing that could happen is build a game dev team for ubuntu ? jus a thought, as i dont believe there is such a group and if there is I'd like to know about it :P

nalmeth
June 13th, 2006, 03:44 AM
Closest thing (though not involved in actual development) is our friendly UDSF Gaming team. They're doing an excellent job, you should check out their work.

graigsmith
June 13th, 2006, 06:58 AM
i want more native games. We need a better way to entice game companies to port some games to linux. cause they certainly aren't looking at the petitions.

Kimm
June 13th, 2006, 07:37 AM
Smart supports the following repository formats as source channels:
[...]
DEB repositories
* DEB System Database (locally installed packages)
* APT repositories for .deb
* DEB Directory (a directory with a bunch of DEBs in it, no indexing required)
[...]

I have a package on my disk. Can I use Smart to install it?

Yes. Use:

# smart install foo-1.1-1.i386.rpm

Smart will even download dependencies from remote channels if necessary, which is nifty.

The filename must end with a well-known package extension for this to work.

(There's no documented situation of that working with Slackware packages)
[...]


Smart sounds like a nifty little package manager ^^

G Morgan
June 13th, 2006, 08:22 AM
Is smart a replacement for apt-get or for synaptic. Will I still be able to apt-get upgrade etc.

Kimm
June 13th, 2006, 01:59 PM
Not sure how smart works... but it sais it will be able to resolve dependencies using apt repositories. If that means that it needs apt-get or not, I cant tell you.

And smart is neighter a replacement of apt-get nor synaptic. Its a replacement for dpkg.

Stormy Eyes
June 13th, 2006, 02:06 PM
i want more native games. We need a better way to entice game companies to port some games to linux. cause they certainly aren't looking at the petitions.

The profit margin isn't good enough to make Linux development worth their time. Deal with it.

purdy hate machine
June 13th, 2006, 03:46 PM
I would just love to be able one day to visit PC world and just be able to pick a game from the shelf and know that it will install.


Visiting PC World to purchase an item of software is something I hope I'll never need to experience again. :p

G Morgan
June 13th, 2006, 03:55 PM
The profit margin isn't good enough to make Linux development worth their time. Deal with it.

While thats true for the most part there are things that can be done* to reduce the porting costs. If a project sets out with compatibility in mind then porting would be comparetively simple. At that point any sales are almost pure profit.

*using SDL instead of DirectX being the obvious one.

The Cosmic Hobo
June 13th, 2006, 08:20 PM
Visiting PC World to purchase an item of software is something I hope I'll never need to experience again. :p
I try to avoid PC World wherever possible - I'm lucky that there's a small retailer within walking distance, and while his prices may be a little higher, I'll gladly pay them because I know he gives good advice and won't sell anything that he doesn't think is good quality. (Hardware, btw. Software... I don't really buy any, though I've had a couple of good budget games recently. I guess if I'm moving to Linux, I'll have to get a taste for Doom 3...)

givré
June 13th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Visiting PC World to purchase an item of software is something I hope I'll never need to experience again. :p
True but think also to all this student we come from informatic shool or university and who are really happy to find a payed job as programmer
I think free software are important for humanity, but it's also important to have some compagny who do some money

WildTangent
June 13th, 2006, 08:43 PM
I try to avoid PC World wherever possible - I'm lucky that there's a small retailer within walking distance, and while his prices may be a little higher, I'll gladly pay them because I know he gives good advice and won't sell anything that he doesn't think is good quality. (Hardware, btw. Software... I don't really buy any, though I've had a couple of good budget games recently. I guess if I'm moving to Linux, I'll have to get a taste for Doom 3...)
They make other games you know ;) But they all pretty much use the same engine :P Enemy Territory: Return to Castle Wolfenstein was pretty awesome, and the new Enemy Territory game, Quake Wars, looks amazing. It basically takes 2 of my favourite series, Quake, and Battlefield and combines them :D

-Wild

The Cosmic Hobo
June 13th, 2006, 09:21 PM
They make other games you know ;)
That's true, but I've not played any FPSs in a looooong time. Like, ah... well I got Half-Life when I first bought a desktop PC, but I haven't played a FPS since! (I doubt the laptop could handle Doom 3 anyway, but I have neither the expertise nor the patience to try and get one of those Windows emulators to run Myst, Homeworld or Alpha Centauri - I would buy the Linux version of the latter, but it looks like the manufacturer went bust a few years back, more's the pity!)

Still, I have fond memories of the original Wolfenstein, which is festering on a CD of "classic" games around here somewhere. Maybe when I get the time, cash and know-how to build a dedicated Linux desktop box, I'll start fiddling with the gaming side.
Until then, I think I'll seek out a DOS emulator and play Star Trek: Judgment Rites ;)

GuitarHero
June 21st, 2006, 07:17 AM
making games is expensive, and the linux install base isnt big enough to constitute an expensive projectlike creating a game

graabein
June 21st, 2006, 08:06 AM
That's true, but I've not played any FPSs in a looooong time. Like, ah... well I got Half-Life when I first bought a desktop PC, but I haven't played a FPS since! (I doubt the laptop could handle Doom 3 anyway, but I have neither the expertise nor the patience to try and get one of those Windows emulators to run Myst, Homeworld or Alpha Centauri - I would buy the Linux version of the latter, but it looks like the manufacturer went bust a few years back, more's the pity!)

It's possible my english fails me but if you're saying that Firaxis (http://www.firaxis.com/news/) went bust I think you're wrong. They have made both Civilization IV and Sid Meier's Pirates since Alpha Centauri... Am I missing something here?

G Morgan
June 21st, 2006, 09:27 AM
making games is expensive, and the linux install base isnt big enough to constitute an expensive projectlike creating a game

On its own, no it isn't. It doesn't stop devs from being clever and using SDL instead of DirectX so that porting becomes comparitively painless. Currently 99% of games would require an almost complete rewrite to port to Linux because they use DirectX. If devs used SDL they could port games for a fraction of the cost.

The problem is the devs out there have worked themselves into a corner on this. Originally desktop Linux didn't exist so DirectX made sense. Now it has a 5%+ market share and that share is worth porting to if it can be done simply. Unfortunately now most of them have invested their time and effort into DirectX. A lot of game companies go under, 5% more sales would put most of them into the black if porting could become simpler. It's just a matter of smarter PC only devs realising this.

The ones who intend on porting to X-Box are going to do whatever MS tell them anyway but there are a lot of good games that never see the light of day on the console. Even today when the PC is 'dying' as a gaming platform it is still the source of nearly all innovation in gaming. I still find that a ridiculous percentage of console games are somewhere between rubbish and don't bother. Generally every RPG on console is dumbed down (Oblivion being one notable exception, its dumbed down for TES games but is quite staty for a game with a console port) and there is no strategy to speak of.

linuksamiko
June 21st, 2006, 07:31 PM
"native Games will it ever happen?"

It is not very likely (atleast not within the next 5 years) but this might helps (even if it's not native): http://www.alkyproject.com/

Alky is almost like wine but works a little different. It can produce an executable Linux/Apple File out of any Windows executable.

The project is very young and it is still unusable for the user but if they keep up the work it might become a way to make a regular .exe file executable for Linux.

The idea is that a company can ship this executable with there game without the need of an installed alky or an installed wine on the computer of the user.

mindwarp
June 21st, 2006, 07:52 PM
Some people are missing a key point too: As graphical toolkits advanced (such as irrlicht and ogre3d) the cost of creating a linux version approaches 0. There is not much reason to make games that only support one platform, wether companies use Ogre, or liscense a commercial engine such as UT or Q3.

And rest assured that the next generation of video game developers, while they probably don't run linux as their main os, are aware of the ease in which you can make a game multiplatform.

Also lets point out how good apple is doing, and if you use a multiplatform toolkit you could have an even broader base with them.

G Morgan
June 21st, 2006, 08:13 PM
Some people are missing a key point too: As graphical toolkits advanced (such as irrlicht and ogre3d) the cost of creating a linux version approaches 0. There is not much reason to make games that only support one platform, wether companies use Ogre, or liscense a commercial engine such as UT or Q3.

And rest assured that the next generation of video game developers, while they probably don't run linux as their main os, are aware of the ease in which you can make a game multiplatform.

Also lets point out how good apple is doing, and if you use a multiplatform toolkit you could have an even broader base with them.

This is similar to the point I'm trying to make. Multiplatform and software commoditisation is going to be a reality whether MS like it or not, the market has already decided they want it, its just a matter of MS having their grace period before they are forced to either make a decision or die a slow death. The technology exists and with many companies making increasingly smaller margins they will target as many markets as technology will realistically allow.

More games are being made for Linux, as the market perception of Linux increases only a fool would believe there will be no games ported. There will never be the situation where every game is ported and we shouldn't expect it but there will be a time when you have a reasonably health selection of games.

DoctorMO
June 21st, 2006, 09:48 PM
Well I was chatting with some games developers and there is a hint from Jowood that they would open source of at least they're older games (and only the ones that were strictly Jowood) if there was a developer team that could make a plausable case for supporting it.

Can linux organise in that way? because most of what I see are developers converging on existing projects rather than banding together to make such a case.

G Morgan
June 21st, 2006, 10:12 PM
Well I was chatting with some games developers and there is a hint from Jowood that they would open source of at least they're older games (and only the ones that were strictly Jowood) if there was a developer team that could make a plausable case for supporting it.

Can linux organise in that way? because most of what I see are developers converging on existing projects rather than banding together to make such a case.

The number one problem with Linux gaming is artwork. There are plenty of talented coders but nobody to produce a product in terms of gaming. A community would have to be formed around the principle of targeting a code base and building games around it. If a viable community can be maintained then you have a model and a foundation on which to build Linux gaming.

Personally I think an OSS game engine with a mixture of proprietry and community artwork being released is the key (i.e. proprietry devs would have the overhead of coding removed in the same fashion as they do with licensing an engine except the engine is free in this case). This way at least there is portability for the games in question (the engine can be ported) and it gives an inroad. As it is though I haven't seen any real attempts at such a thing, the Linux gaming community needs organising that much is certain. The traditional Linux support doesn't seem interested in gaming for the most part (and nor should they be, Linux needs to appeal to business to succeed to the fullest extent).

The Cosmic Hobo
June 22nd, 2006, 11:08 PM
It's possible my english fails me but if you're saying that Firaxis (http://www.firaxis.com/news/) went bust I think you're wrong. They have made both Civilization IV and Sid Meier's Pirates since Alpha Centauri... Am I missing something here?
No, the manufacturer of the Linux version... Loki Games, I think...

NoTiG
June 22nd, 2006, 11:25 PM
Eventually, although I think more development is going into making *nix a desktop environment. Most people are headed towards consoles (xbox, ps3) for their gaming.

Personally (I love linux dont get me wrong) but there will need to be a very big boom in linux users / gamers before companies will start producing mainstream games to run natively.


Its funny that you say that.... considering that consoles are becoming PC's basically.