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View Full Version : Free Software Propoganda for Children!



Luggy
June 11th, 2006, 03:37 PM
If you haven't already heard there is a web site created by some Canadian Pro-Copyright lobbiest group that is targetting kids and encouraging them to stop sharing.
link (http://www.captaincopyright.ca/Default.aspx)

This got me thinking, why don't we (or someone else) create something that targets children and enforces that sharing is good, whether it's your red ball or your music?

Is this a good idea, or is it just sinking down to 'their' level?

nalmeth
June 11th, 2006, 03:48 PM
My God

Thats the first I've seen that. Pretty wild.
The deeper you go the crazier it gets. Very dramatic.

Very distasteful


This got me thinking, why don't we (or someone else) create something that targets children and enforces that sharing is good, whether it's your red ball or your music?
Yeah, whatever happened to
In kindergarten we share. We share everything

Is this a good idea, or is it just sinking down to 'their' level?
Good idea

Stormy Eyes
June 11th, 2006, 04:10 PM
In kindergarten we share. We share everything.

If you don't have anything of your own, then how can you share?

nalmeth
June 11th, 2006, 04:20 PM
If you don't have anything of your own, then how can you share?
Thats not the point. The point is that the child with nothing can come to kindergarten, and from noone, become someone. To having nothing to having something. The other kids can share with the poor kid.

Anyway, I was referring to an old lullaby / childrens song, not making a literal, all-binding statement.

G Morgan
June 11th, 2006, 04:20 PM
Certainly I think more projects such as edubuntu are useful but it needs to aim a little higher. I think the real target would be Teens as opposed to 3-7 year olds.

Ivan Matveich
June 11th, 2006, 04:28 PM
At what time and place would a child ever see your production? Never and nowhere, most likely. Richard Stallman has taken to promoting the use of free software in schools. Any child who grows up using free software is likely to continue using free software: the habit, once formed, is unbroken. Nice talk about sharing is easily forgotten, on the other hand.

nalmeth
June 11th, 2006, 04:40 PM
At what time and place would a child ever see your production? http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=193058

One such avenue in our own backyard.


Certainly I think more projects such as edubuntu are useful but it needs to aim a little higher. I think the real target would be Teens as opposed to 3-7 year olds. I agree that teens would be a great age group to introduce Open-Source ideas, as they start to take an individual interest in computers. On the other hand though, I think it would never be too soon to have a child playing with linux.

BTW:

Quote:
Is this a good idea, or is it just sinking down to 'their' level?

Good idea
I didn't mean using the same mental surgery tactics, only that there should be greater initiative in introducing the OSS idea to kids. A method that employs their own intelligence to allow them to make their own decisions about how they feel. Not exploiting their imaginations with these dramatic comic strip stories, tricking them at an age where they couldn't know any better.

Hanj
June 11th, 2006, 04:43 PM
I can't imagine anyone taking this seriously, it's just too stupid. And Captain Copyright is a copyright infringer himself! Clicky (http://www.boingboing.net/2006/06/02/captain_copyright_wi.html)

Luggy
June 11th, 2006, 05:28 PM
I can't imagine anyone taking this seriously, it's just too stupid. And Captain Copyright is a copyright infringer himself! Clicky (http://www.boingboing.net/2006/06/02/captain_copyright_wi.html)

Yeah, it was from that article on BoingBoing that got me interested in the idea. I even e-mailed the guys behind Captain Copyright and told them that they were breaking Wikipedia's guidelines. They didn't write back but they have now removed all of their citations from their colouring book section.



I didn't mean using the same mental surgery tactics, only that there should be greater initiative in introducing the OSS idea to kids.
I don't think that we should be concerned about getting children hooked on Open Source because really the concept is probably a little bit much for them to grasp. You can however get them interested in the idea; sharing something you made is as good as sharing your red ball at the playground.


A method that employs their own intelligence to allow them to make their own decisions about how they feel. Not exploiting their imaginations with these dramatic comic strip stories, tricking them at an age where they couldn't know any better.
The problem is that in our society we teach children that sharing is a good thing; Share your toys and share your crayons.

To push sharing of other content goes with the flow of what we say our children should believe in. If you were to say that we should wait until they are adults before they come to the decision on whether or not they should release their source code, shouldn't we also let them wait until they are adults until we let them decide if they want to share their toys and crayons?

wmcbrine
June 11th, 2006, 05:30 PM
I've seen a comic from "our side", but I don't think it's really oriented towards children...

http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/

I think the EFF has some stuff too.

nalmeth
June 11th, 2006, 05:50 PM
The problem is that in our society we teach children that sharing is a good thing; Share your toys and share your crayons.

To push sharing of other content goes with the flow of what we say our children should believe in. If you were to say that we should wait until they are adults before they come to the decision on whether or not they should release their source code, shouldn't we also let them wait until they are adults until we let them decide if they want to share their toys and crayons? Good points.

I only think that the idea of sharing source code is (as suggested) a little too complicated or over their heads for them to decide at such a young age. This is also one reason I find this Captain Copyright nonsense so bad.

The kids are too young to force them into a moral decision like this, but if at a young age they can be introduced to the idea of OSS in as simple of a way as playing fun little games, or using paint (graphics) programs, along side the always present closed-source systems, then as they grow older they can come to their own conclusions about how they feel. That's all.

This propaganda doesn't take that route, this organization has made the moral decision for the kids, and this is their method of integrating it in their mindset at a young age. There is no respect for their young minds, and this is a blantant, classless stab at freedom of thought.

@ wmcbrine
propoganda can work both ways :)

at least this stuff isn't pushed onto children, as you said


You can however get them interested in the idea; sharing something you made is as good as sharing your red ball at the playground.

Luggy
June 11th, 2006, 06:02 PM
One of the biggest problems with Captain Copyright is that it distorts the morals that children are taught.

We teach our children to share and we teach them that stealing is bad. Captain Copyright is teaching children a form of sharing is stealing and because children grow up more focused on sharing physical things like toys or food they don't see how sharing relates to written or other creative works.

When you talk about children using OSS I think it's a win-win situation. The schools wont have to spend money on new software and the children can learn to use multiple applications and not get stuck only knowing how to use Microsoft Office.

nalmeth
June 11th, 2006, 06:39 PM
We teach our children to share and we teach them that stealing is bad. Captain Copyright is teaching children a form of sharing is stealing and because children grow up more focused on sharing physical things like toys or food they don't see how sharing relates to written or other creative works.
Well said :)

As to your proposition in your original post, what do you think are some good "respectful" tactics to introduce OSS to kids?

G Morgan pointed out edubuntu, and I think it's a really good step. My first successful ubuntu install was actually edubuntu breezy, I wanted to see just what kind of tools came with it, and it was impressive.

I few links I just dug up.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8288
http://www.internatif.org/bortzmeyer/children/
http://www.lego.com/eng/info/default.asp?page=pressdetail&contentid=20154&countrycode=2057&yearcode=&archive=false

Anyone have anything to add?

BWF89
June 12th, 2006, 04:21 PM
The Framers of the U.S. Constitution understood that copyright was about balance — a trade-off between public and private gain, society-wide innovation and creative reward. In 1790, the U.S.'s first copyright law granted authors a monopoly right over their creations for 14 years, with the option of renewing that monopoly for another 14. We want to help restore that sense of balance — not through any change to the current laws — but by helping copyright holders who recognize a long copyright term's limited benefit to voluntarily release that right after a shorter period.
http://creativecommons.org/projects/founderscopyright/

fuscia
June 12th, 2006, 04:25 PM
Yeah, whatever happened to
In kindergarten we share.

the purpose of enforced sharing is to increase the appreciation of selfishness one can opt for as an adult. it's similar to the notion that sex is better when one thinks it's dirty.

Jucato
June 12th, 2006, 04:30 PM
I just wonder, is copyright really that bad? or just when applied to stuff like software (and science?) and how does intellectual property fall into this? IMHO, asserting your right over a written piece is far understable than asserting your ownership of an idea...

Copyright, copyleft, IP... they confuse me... All I know is sharing is good, but that sharing works both ways.

wmcbrine
June 14th, 2006, 06:22 PM
how does intellectual property fall into this?"Intellectual property" is a propaganda term, conflating copyrights, patents, trademarks, and sometimes trade secrets. It has no legal meaning. The purpose of the term is to get you thinking of those things as property, when they really aren't.

bruce89
June 14th, 2006, 06:25 PM
I think the real target would be Teens as opposed to 3-7 year olds.
Well, I am 16, having no problem with Ubuntu. I suppose that Edubuntu should be aimed at the secondary school market really (11+).

Engnome
June 14th, 2006, 07:04 PM
http://www.eff.org/corrupt/

macgyver2
June 14th, 2006, 07:44 PM
Captain Copyright needs to be introduced to Super Spellchecker. What the heck is "RESREARCH", anyway? :D

G Morgan
June 14th, 2006, 07:56 PM
the purpose of enforced sharing is to increase the appreciation of selfishness one can opt for as an adult. it's similar to the notion that sex is better when one thinks it's dirty.

I always thought that sharing was enforced because it made life easier for the parent.