When is Ubuntu Forums Adopting the "New Look"?

[CrusaderAD]

Ubuntu has changed their color schema and font for a few releases now. What's up with Ubuntu Forums? Is a new look just around the corner?

[s.fox]

We have been waiting as of November 2009 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1338409) for Canonical to update the forum software, as well as the theme that goes with it. I made a recent blog post (http://serial-coder.co.uk/blog/2012/03/an-open-letter-to-the-ubuntu-community/) about this delay.

We have been told "soon", as per my current understanding we are waiting on a hardware upgrade.

[CrusaderAD]

Wow, I read your article. That's too bad. I would have thought that the two parties would have been closer colleagues.

[s.fox]

I would have thought that the two parties would have been closer colleagues.

It is a relationship I am trying to repair / improve for the benefit of the forums community. It is my responsibility to try.

[CrusaderAD]

It is a relationship I am trying to repair / improve for the benefit of the forums community. It is my responsibility to try.

Good luck. This is still the best forum to date IMO. Most other forums I jump on have a really cold atmosphere or the people are just plain rude. "Why are you asking for help? Do it yourself.". It's absurd. I've always encountered the best individuals in this forum. Amazing community.

[s.fox]

Good luck.

Thank you, I am sure it'll work out.


I've always encountered the best individuals in this forum. Amazing community

I agree, the community is fantastic. It is very friendly and can achieve anything it wants when it pulls together in one direction.

[sffvba[e0rt]

http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies//wheee.gif


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[MisterGaribaldi]

November 2009 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1338409) and blog post (http://serial-coder.co.uk/blog/2012/03/an-open-letter-to-the-ubuntu-community/)

s.fox:

Wow. November 2009? Sounds as though the Canonical Admins sure like letting you carry the water for them. Maybe you should stop being their crutch (or, think of another suitable word to use here) and let the forums fail so they can understand how important they are to the community THEY have created with THEIR Linux distro.

This is not directed against you or the other mods here on UF, of course. I can appreciate that being a board mod/admin is often a thankless job, especially as you're all volunteers. But November, 2009? Seriously? At some point you lot have to realize you're just being used, and now it is your responsibility on a personal level to stop that abuse.

Good luck!

[s.fox]

Let the forums fail so they can understand how important they are to the community THEY have created with THEIR Linux distro.

That wouldn't be fair on the community. The masses should not be made to suffer.


At some point you lot have to realize you're just being used, and now it is your responsibility on a personal level to stop that abuse.

What would you suggest?


Good luck!

Thank you, I am sure it will work out fine.

[Lucradia]

Let the forums fail so they can understand how important they are to the community THEY have created with THEIR Linux distro.

There are other communities / forums that cater to ubuntu as it is. If ubuntuforums.org would fail, people would just go to another. Most of the other forums though use phpbb or other open-source forum software.

[BeRoot ReBoot]

Frankly, I'd much rather see an official forum running on a Free platform as well. As it is, askubuntu or the ubuntu subreddit are much better places to look for support, too.

[s.fox]

Most of the other forums though use phpbb or other open-source forum software.

The forums did actually run phpBB when it was first started but phpBB was dropped as it did not meet the expectations that were required to run the Ubuntu Forums consistently.

[s.fox]

Frankly, I'd much rather see an official forum running on a Free platform as well. As it is, askubuntu or the ubuntu subreddit are much better places to look for support, too.

I am not sure choice of platform is a valid reason for not being up to date. vBulletin is well supported with regular updates and patches. Would the upgrade take higher importance if we were running phpBB for example? It still relies on someone performing the upgrade.

Please also see my previous post regarding the reasoning for vBulletin. I would add that just because it is proprietary it doesn't mean that the source is closed.

[wolfen69]

Why is an upgrade needed? What would change by "upgrading" the forums? Please, enlighten me.

[s.fox]

Why is an upgrade needed? What would change by "upgrading" the forums? Please, enlighten me.

By updating the forums we would be better protected against security vunerabilities. Recently a number of staff accounts were targeted and a security flaw was exploited.

Updating the forum would also allow us to use more recent plugins, including the mobile theme that so many people have requested previously.

[nothingspecial]

All sorts, new features, better performance, etc etc etc like when you upgrade any software.......

[MisterGaribaldi]

That wouldn't be fair on the community. The masses should not be made to suffer.

Then, with all due respect, let me suggest you're just contributing to us being pawns. "The masses" as you call us are being shielded, by you folks, from Canonical's indifferent attitude. Let us encounter it, unfiltered, and respond to it. This has been going on since 2009, and I'd say it's gone on long enough.



What would you suggest?

Basically, what Lucradia says below.



There are other communities / forums that cater to ubuntu as it is. If ubuntuforums.org would fail, people would just go to another. Most of the other forums though use phpbb or other open-source forum software.

Exactly. Thank you for standing up, Lucradia. I appreciate it!


EDIT:

Let me just add, quickly, that I also understand not all BB software scales sufficiently for use. Correct me if I'm wrong, s.fox, but this board had to also shut down some areas because even this software (or the servers involved) are not really adequate for this community's needs. In any event, any BB is about meeting the needs of the community, and if it doesn't, it is the obligation of those in charge to respond appropriately and do something about it. Canonical and Ubuntu isn't some little all-volunteer-effort thing. Canonical is a for-profit company. This is really little more than a business expense.

[Erik1984]

Don't hurry, the current layout is fine :D It might look dated but it's warm and easy on the eyes.

[philinux]

Don't hurry, the current layout is fine :D It might look dated but it's warm and easy on the eyes.

Mine looks like this. Stylish addon plus custom code.

[forrestcupp]

We have been waiting as of November 2009 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1338409) for Canonical to update the forum software, as well as the theme that goes with it. I made a recent blog post (http://serial-coder.co.uk/blog/2012/03/an-open-letter-to-the-ubuntu-community/) about this delay.

We have been told "soon", as per my current understanding we are waiting on a hardware upgrade.Wow. It's almost like Ubuntu Forums is becoming the red-headed stepchild. A while back, they made us their "official forum", but when you do a clean install and watch their presentation during the installation, they really promote Ask Ubuntu as their official free support, and don't say a word about the forums. We've been volunteering to work our butts off for them for a lot longer than Ask Ubuntu has been around, and we're not getting any credit there.

At least Jono Bacon in the comments seemed like he wants to work toward a better relationship.


Then, with all due respect, let me suggest you're just contributing to us being pawns. "The masses" as you call us are being shielded, by you folks, from Canonical's indifferent attitude. Let us encounter it, unfiltered, and respond to it. This has been going on since 2009, and I'd say it's gone on long enough.That's part of being a leader. That's just how it goes in the world. If you're a leader, you are expected to take the brunt of the hardships to protect your people.



Basically, what Lucradia says below.You can't just look at someone who invests their life into something and tell them to just let it go to hell, and that the investment of their life wasn't worth it. There's pride involved there. If I pour my life into something, it is worth something to me.

[DoubleClicker]

I don't see the reason for delaying the theme modifications until the forum is upgraded. Just change the logo, and the coffee related images, revert "bean" to "post", and change the user ranks.

All of that should have been done in 1 day, when lucid was released, and can be done by tomorrow, with existing images and css. I've created a vBulliten site before, so I know it's just that easy. Philinux's stylish customizations took more work, than changing the actual theme would.

[cariboo]

Then, with all due respect, let me suggest you're just contributing to us being pawns. "The masses" as you call us are being shielded, by you folks, from Canonical's indifferent attitude. Let us encounter it, unfiltered, and respond to it. This has been going on since 2009, and I'd say it's gone on long enough.




Basically, what Lucradia says below.




Exactly. Thank you for standing up, Lucradia. I appreciate it!


EDIT:

Let me just add, quickly, that I also understand not all BB software scales sufficiently for use. Correct me if I'm wrong, s.fox, but this board had to also shut down some areas because even this software (or the servers involved) are not really adequate for this community's needs. In any event, any BB is about meeting the needs of the community, and if it doesn't, it is the obligation of those in charge to respond appropriately and do something about it. Canonical and Ubuntu isn't some little all-volunteer-effort thing. Canonical is a for-profit company. This is really little more than a business expense.

As you are well aware, as you posted in the thread almost daily, the shutting down of sections of the forum were due to failing hardware, that has since been replaced with shiny new hardware with the capacity to grow with the forum.

[TenPlus1]

This forum works and is easy to navigate, through time new themes will arrive but for now it's not a necessity...

[Basher101]

This forum works and is easy to navigate, through time new themes will arrive but for now it's not a necessity...

as long as it works, why change it..i am pretty satisfied with the community, the forums, the fonts, the themes, everything.

The only thing i wish for is, to grab a USB stick and save those poor computers in school..every time they use them in class, they have antivirus messages all over or software not working, updates to be installed, etc....

but thats another story..

[kevdog]

Who runs askubuntu? It seems from my limited experience I get a great deal of technical help there without a lot of "newb" questions.

[|{urse]

I like the vbulletin interface. Change the colors and the header a bit maybe. Just my 2 cents.

[castrojo]

Wow. It's almost like Ubuntu Forums is becoming the red-headed stepchild. A while back, they made us their "official forum", but when you do a clean install and watch their presentation during the installation, they really promote Ask Ubuntu as their official free support, and don't say a word about the forums. We've been volunteering to work our butts off for them for a lot longer than Ask Ubuntu has been around, and we're not getting any credit there.

Hi,

I'm one of the people at Canonical trying to solve this problem, I'd thought I'd like to chime in here. I think it's really unfair that you make these claims, I've been on these Forums since October 2004, and to imply that Canonical doesn't care about the forums is a stretch, however, due to certain issues, I can see why you think that. Hopefully this will clear the air for you.

a) Ask Ubuntu isn't a replacement for the forums. I know many people are claiming this, because for the uninitiated, it looks like a forum. But it is not. AU is very narrowly scoped, if anything it is a replacement for Launchpad Answers, which as far as I can tell isn't that popular. Have you ever googled for something and come up with something on Launchpad Answers? Do some people think AU is a better avenue for technical support? Sure, of course. In the same way that many people prefer the forums to mailing lists, but we don't really shut down mailing lists and tell people to use the forums instead, we let people use what they want.

b) I think it's short sighted to split the Ubuntu community into "the forums people are working their butts off and not getting any credit, but Ask Ubuntu people are." We're the same community. I participate in both, I don't look down on someone answering a question on the mailing list. I don't say "this is crap, ubuntu-users people getting all the credit, boo...". Same people, different tools. I don't really care if my interaction with bodhi.zazen is on the forums, the mailing list, on IRC, or on Ask Ubuntu. Actually, come to think of it, the tool I am using to communicate with him is the last thing I care about.

Now that that's out of the way let me explain to you what I've been working on for the past month. Last month my boss (Jono Bacon) assigned me to the forums. He did this because I've been on these forums longer than everyone except 73 other people. Up until recently the forums managed themselves. Too easy, a little bit of maintenance, and that's all that was needed. There was no need to lazer-down on the forums, because they just worked. I can't speak for the IS team. I also can't speak for the forums council or moderators that have served the forums in the past (The fact that there was some sort of disagreements in the past was news to me). I had no idea the problem with the software upgrade was so bad until I was assigned to it.

Did Canonical mess up? Probably. Did everyone involved with governing with the forums mess up in the last 7 years? Probably. Could this situation have been handled better? Absolutely.

So forget the blame game, because I'm here now, and the forums council is here now, and we can fix this. So here's what we've been doing the last month:

a) We knew we needed to support OpenID for single sign on, but vbulletin doesn't support this. Mark was pretty critical on this point, if we're going to upgrade the forums we're going to do it right, it needs to be as integrated as everything else in Ubuntu.

b) This kind of sucked, we couldn't find anyone who was doing SSO with vbulletin. I put out a call for help, and we got a volunteer! Ends up, we didn't need him.

c) Stuart Metcalfe from the Canonical ISD team tested the old openid plugin with vbulletin 4. And it worked. Woo, no extra code needed!

d) We deployed a test instance of the forums on vbulletin 4.x last week.

e) Since we're going to upgrade we might as well deploy new forums on high end brand new hardware.

Some broken things:

- Apparently SSO is still broken. Hopefully Technoviking and IS can sort this this week.
- Sourcing the hard drives we need to grow the forums on new hardware is way harder than I thought. Drives are a pain to snag right now due to flooding in Asia and it's affecting our IS team's ability to migrate. We're not talking about going to Best Buy and snagging a 2TB USB disk, we're talking about enough space to handle 8 years worth of forum data the right way.


At least Jono Bacon in the comments seemed like he wants to work toward a better relationship.

I can't speak for past relationships between the forums council and Canonical IS, but so far I've been in contact with someone from the forum's council every day. I'm not happy that this is taking so long either. My dealing with anyone from the forums has also been awesome, to me the idea that there was even a problem in the relationship is news to me, but maybe I'm just naive?


You can't just look at someone who invests their life into something and tell them to just let it go to hell, and that the investment of their life wasn't worth it. There's pride involved there. If I pour my life into something, it is worth something to me.

As far as I can tell the word "go to hell" were never part of this process. I can understand you're frustrated, so am I. I don't think anyone at Canonical wants the forums version to be so behind, and not have a slick new theme. Mark subscribes to very few RT tickets, but one he's always on about is the forums upgrade process; this is an important issue to the highest level, unfortunately this involves doing things the right way, and right now it's pretty hard. We probably should have seen it coming much earlier, but we didn't see it coming, even though we should have. Hindsight and all.

I hope this explains the situation to you, it's not a conspiracy, like lots of things in OSS, we have a ton of stuff to do and not enough time and people to do it.

[CharlesA]

Well said.

[jonobacon]

I know I don't have a lot of time to spend on the forums, but I just want to re-iterate that the forums are a hugely important part of our community and perform a valuable service, as do our IRC community, Ask Ubuntu, and others.

As Jorge mentioned, I have asked him to ensure the needs of thr forums community are met as best as possible. Please look to him as a resource, and if there are any further concerns, feel free to email me at jono AT ubuntu DOT com.

Thanks everyone for all the great work you do here. :-)

Jono

[cariboo]

Thanks Jorge and Jono for your comments.

[MisterGaribaldi]

forestcupp: I suppose the point is now moot in light of castrojo and jonobacon's posts, but I think you misunderstood what I was trying to communicate. And yes, under the appropriate circumstances, it is not only correct but necessary to let the people (customers, etc.) know what's going on instead of shielding them from the truth, or covering things up.

Jono, Jo, et al: I'm glad to hear Canonical is "on it". That should, as everything comes together, make a lot of people happy.

Sometimes, folks, you just need to find the right frequency.

[sffvba[e0rt]

Thanks Jorge and Jono for your comments.

+1 to that.


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[Elfy]

Thanks for the comments Jorge and Jono.

[nothingspecial]

thanks for the comments jorge and jono.

+1

[s.fox]

So forget the blame game, because I'm here now, and the forums council is here now, and we can fix this.

To me this is the key point of your post. It can be fixed. Nobody especially cares about the past and just wants the situation to be rectified as soon as possible. We all want the same thing: The best possible support that this fantastic community deserves.

[Elfy]

To me this is the key point of your post. It can be fixed. Nobody especially cares about the past and just want the situation to be rectified as soon as possible. We all want the same thing: The best possible support that this fantastic community deserves.

This +1 too.

[s.fox]

Wow. It's almost like Ubuntu Forums is becoming the red-headed stepchild. A while back, they made us their "official forum", but when you do a clean install and watch their presentation during the installation, they really promote Ask Ubuntu as their official free support, and don't say a word about the forums. We've been volunteering to work our butts off for them for a lot longer than Ask Ubuntu has been around, and we're not getting any credit there.


A bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/894112) has been created on launchpad regarding this. You are more than welcome to contribute to the bug report. I have sent an updated ubiquity slide to Bodsda that lists Ask Ubuntu, Launchpad and The Ubuntu Forums as support avenues. The slide also cycles through the 3 logos on an image fade created with javascript.

[s.fox]

This forum works and is easy to navigate, through time new themes will arrive but for now it's not a necessity...


as long as it works, why change it..i am pretty satisfied with the community, the forums, the fonts, the themes, everything.

From one of my earlier posts:


By updating the forums we would be better protected against security vunerabilities. Recently a number of staff accounts were targeted and a security flaw was exploited.

Updating the forum would also allow us to use more recent plugins, including the mobile theme that so many people have requested previously.

[forrestcupp]

I'm one of the people at Canonical trying to solve this problem, I'd thought I'd like to chime in here. I think it's really unfair that you make these claims, I've been on these Forums since October 2004, and to imply that Canonical doesn't care about the forums is a stretch, however, due to certain issues, I can see why you think that. Hopefully this will clear the air for you.Thank you very much for your response. It just really set wrong with me that when I did a clean install, the presentation listed Ask Ubuntu as the means of support, and it didn't mention the forums at all. That kind of goes against what you were saying about them all being equal tools to accomplish the same goal.

But like I said, it meant a lot seeing Jono Bacon's comment on s.fox's blog. The work you are doing as a Canonical representative means the world. Between all of these things and the bug report that specifically deals with what I mentioned, I can see that things really are getting worked out. Thank you.


As far as I can tell the word "go to hell" were never part of this process. I can understand you're frustrated, so am I.You misunderstood that part of what I was saying. I wasn't directing that statement to Canonical. That was directed at the people who were basically telling s.fox and the forum staff to let the forums go to hell just to teach Canonical a lesson, and it would be ok because we could just go to another forum. You don't tell someone who invests their lives in this to just let it go to hell to teach Canonical a lesson. And yes, "let it go to hell" were my own words that I used to paraphrase what they were saying.


A bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/894112) has been created on launchpad regarding this. You are more than welcome to contribute to the bug report. I have sent an updated ubiquity slide to Bodsda that lists Ask Ubuntu, Launchpad and The Ubuntu Forums as support avenues. The slide also cycles through the 3 logos on an image fade created with javascript.Thank you for that. I added that I am affected.

[MisterGaribaldi]

Hearing that Mark is following UF service tickets, etc., and that TPTB consider UF to be central to Canonical's Ubuntu identity is music to my ears and, I imagine, many others as well. It's just a shame that it's taken this long to make it happen, and to actually speak up and say anything to the larger UF community -- not to mention this board's own admin/mod staff.

I hope we haven't lost too many people. Oh well, the future lies ahead, and that's the way I'm focused, so... bring it on! :)

[synaptix]

A bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/894112) has been created on launchpad regarding this. You are more than welcome to contribute to the bug report. I have sent an updated ubiquity slide to Bodsda that lists Ask Ubuntu, Launchpad and The Ubuntu Forums as support avenues. The slide also cycles through the 3 logos on an image fade created with javascript.

Personally I think in the slideshow that the forums should be listed first, Launchpad second and Ask Ubuntu last.

In the 2 years of using Ubuntu, I've never once visited Ask Ubuntu for support. The only time I've visited Launchpad pages is to get PPAs for software and other goodies.

Everything I needed support with, whether via searching here or on Google has always been solved by these forums and nowhere else (except for one case where I found the solution on Debian forums).

[coffeecat]

Thanks Jorge and Jono for your comments.


Thanks for the comments Jorge and Jono.

+1. Thanks, Jorge and Jono.

[ubudog]

+1. Thanks, Jorge and Jono.

Thank you Jorge & Jono. :)

[wolfen69]

By updating the forums we would be better protected against security vunerabilities. Recently a number of staff accounts were targeted and a security flaw was exploited.

Updating the forum would also allow us to use more recent plugins, including the mobile theme that so many people have requested previously.

Thank you for that explanation.

[CrusaderAD]

Looks like a new theme is finally available :) (drop down 'ubuntu' at bottom of page)

[sffvba[e0rt]

Looks like a new theme is finally available :) (drop down 'ubuntu' at bottom of page)

Discussion continuing here - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1977943


Thread closed.


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