What would you like to see in a Linux office suite or word processor?

[Copper Bezel]

So, I've been meaning to post this for a bit, and this post (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1924692) kicked me off.

What would you like to see in an office suite or word processor for Linux, or any platform? What are your absolute-must-have features, what would be nice, and what's the "clutter" you'd rather see left out?

For a bit of background, I'm an English instructor, so I spend quite a bit of time with LibreOffice. It's not pretty, and there are a lot of hassles and little unpleasant surprises, but it more or less works for me. Still, LibreOffice still feels like an imitation of MS Office 2003, even if it does quite a lot more, and it's just not very flashy; it always seems to me to be the weak point of Ubuntu's default software suite and the one application no one ever shows off to a Windows user, as it were. (I mean, compare it to the big open source browsers, or even the text editors and file managers in Gnome and KDE, which really sell on their own unique merits.)

Naturally, too, I'm less interested in business use than home and academic applications. MS Office seems overworked and very business-oriented, of course, and web services like Google's or MS's don't really provide the feature set I need, and I frequently wish that there was a solid FOSS word processing app built around home and academic use. I'm focused on the word processor here, rather than an office suite, because I really think that the traditional bundle that Microsoft started is a bit artificial, and the benefit to integrating the spreadsheet package with the other two is another consideration mainly for business use.

I really like the look of the Citrus UI proposal (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/) for Libreoffice that's been kicking around and tempting. It's appealingly simple and attractive; it apes MS Office's nifty selected-text toolbox but avoids anything nervy like the ribbon, seems to rely a lot less on menus, and just keeps a lot of the clutter out of the way (all those overlapping toolbars and toolboxes and guides and rulers and sextants that have to be turned off in LibreOffice on a fresh install.) And it just seems approachable for home users; in a lot of ways, it feels like a scaled-up Compose window in an e-mail service or discussion board instead of a variation on MS Office conventions. (I'm not sure I like the left-hand bar. I like non-MDI interfaces because I can throw two documents up at a time, regardless of what applications they're in, so I'd prefer not to have the extra horizontal pixel cost there.)

But I think all kinds of creative things could be done with the UI even beyond that. Tear-off tabs like Chrome's, for instance, would be very useful for sorting a large number of open documents. It would be nice to add a header just by double-clicking there, as in MS Office. It might be nice to have zoom proportional to the window size, like a PDF viewer's.

Of course, the UI isn't everything. I'd also love to see some of the features from online document services worked in. For instance, rather than an Open dialogue, it might be nice to have a screen or tab that works like a music library for documents, with full-text searching and previews and the whole bit, sort of like the new Gnome document manager. Autosave and version control, like Google Docs or Apple iWork, could be accomplished by keeping an archive of old versions in the application's config folder. It would be nice not to have to answer the "Save changes?" question, but even nicer not to deal with LibreOffice's document recovery window after a crash.

And of course, full support of .docx would be nice, and perhaps a rudimentary .pdf import (though I don't suppose those count, as it's a bit like wishing for world peace.) I can't help thinking, though, that dealing exclusively with .odt, .docx, and .pdf would simplify the problems the LibreOffice devs face with Writer's compatibility, and do so with little if any loss.

A GUI for batch printing and converting files - maybe from that "library" view? - would be fairly nice, too; at the same time, I wonder if a project could be simplified by not bothering with a print manager at all, and just creating a .pdf to send to the default .pdf viewer.

So what do you think? What would you like to see in a word processing application or office suite? And what would you like not to see ever again? = )

[JDShu]

For me, the math function in LibreOffice is great, I just with it would be easier to write formulas over multiple lines easily. I often do mathematical proofs for homework, and it's cumbersome to have to either create new formula boxes every line, or type in "newline" at the correct positions all the time. Perhaps TeX integration would be the best way?

I agree that UI is a big issue. I don't know what actual solutions are possible, but I would like to see a bigger emphasis on UI Design. Some way for the LibreOffice folk to observe users and iterate through UI designs would be optimal. That is to say, I would like to see a modern UI design process.

I think OOXML support should be made a priority. Right now, LibreOffice does not hold the moral high ground. Even it turns out that MS doesn't follow their own spec, if LibreOffice can implement OOXML full according to the ISO specifications, then we can proceed to blame MS. As it is, the FOSS community has no right to point fingers.

[Dry Lips]

This thread is long overdue! There is a serious lack in Libreoffice that has made me contemplating buying a copy of MS Word. In MS Word you've had grammar check for ages. I think it must have been around since Word 97. Fifteen years later, there is still no grammar check in OO/LO. Although the grammar check isn't perfect even in word, it is immensely useful for those of us who aren't native English speakers. I guess discussion of the UI is in its place, but if I finally end up getting a copy of MS Word, it has nothing to do with its UI.

[odiseo77]

I always have problems when I create a word document with MS Word and then open it with LO Writer (or vice versa); the text appears out of its original place, like the format has changed (not the file extension format, but the format I have given to the text inside the documents). Not sure why this happens, but I would like more compatibility between MS Word and LO Writer in this regard. (And I guess it also happens with other type of documents, like presentations, spreadsheets, etc).

[perspectoff]

Export into .epub format for EBooks (a la Caliber or Sigil).

It would be great to write ebooks in LibreOffice.

[Jesus_Valdez]

Not gonna lie to you, I would like an official linux release of Microsoft Office.

[kurt18947]

I always have problems when I create a word document with MS Word and then open it with LO Writer (or vice versa); the text appears out of its original place, like the format has changed (not the file extension format, but the format I have given to the text inside the documents). Not sure why this happens, but I would like more compatibility between MS Word and LO Writer in this regard. (And I guess it also happens with other type of documents, like presentations, spreadsheets, etc).

It appears that .docx compatibility is somewhat better in LO 3.5. I'm using 3.5 beta2 included in Precise (12.04 alpha2) and while not perfect it seems better than earlier versions of LO.

[SeijiSensei]

A DBMS as powerful and as simple to use as Microsoft Access.

[odiseo77]

It appears that .docx compatibility is somewhat better in LO 3.5. I'm using 3.5 beta2 included in Precise (12.04 alpha2) and while not perfect it seems better than earlier versions of LO.

Hmmm, would have to try 3.5 to see how it behaves (right now, I'm using 3.4.5). BTW, in my case, It happens with .doc as well, not only with .docx; I only use plain .doc (compatible with Word 97, 2000, XP, 2003), and I always have this problem with this format.

Cheers.

[rheinstein]

I'd like to see greater compatibility with Microsoft Office document formatting. I can do without bells and whistles, but I share documents with Microsoft Office users and it's important that formatting remains consistent.

[juancarlospaco]

Theres no such thing as Microsoft Office document formatting Standard,
you see inconsistency on Documents between different MS Windows and/or MS Offices...

[kurt18947]

I'd like to see greater compatibility with Microsoft Office document formatting. I can do without bells and whistles, but I share documents with Microsoft Office users and it's important that formatting remains consistent.

Unfortunately the only way to get this that I know of is to run MSOffice under WINE. There's another thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1922229&page=3 #21 that says MSO 2007 works well with WINE. That seems to be the only way to get 100% compatibility. I'm not fond of it but when Microsoft doesn't adhere their own published standard, how can anyone else?

[Dngrsone]

I think part of the formatting issues between Word and OOo/Libre Office has to do with fonts.

Personally, I'd like to see a text-oriented word processor with the power and flexibility of Word Perfect 7.

[kurt18947]

I think part of the formatting issues between Word and OOo/Libre Office has to do with fonts.

Personally, I'd like to see a text-oriented word processor with the power and flexibility of Word Perfect 7.

It could be that. It could also be that people do not use Word (and probably Libre Office) as it is intended to be used. I've read that people should use styles a lot more than they do rather than spaces and tabs and changing margins nilly willy. Documents whose paragraphs are formatted with styles - even if the paragraph is one line - 'travel' better. How true is this? I don't know, just what I read and it seemed reasonable at the time

This relates to the reason that some people prefer WordPerfect's formatting tools. WordPerfect uses stream formatting & tags sort of like HTML rather than styles like MS Office and Libre Office and it's easier to see what's going on (and fix problems) with stream formatting & reveal codes with than any of the tools provided in MS Office or Libre Office. On the other hand, it apparently is very difficult to get WordPerfect's current file format to work well with Unicode.

[Dngrsone]

It could be that. It could also be that people do not use Word (and probably Libre Office) as it is intended to be used. I've read that people should use styles a lot more than they do rather than spaces and tabs and changing margins nilly willy. Documents whose paragraphs are formatted with styles - even if the paragraph is one line - 'travel' better. How true is this? I don't know, just what I read and it seemed reasonable at the time

This relates to the reason that some people prefer WordPerfect's formatting tools. WordPerfect uses stream formatting & tags sort of like HTML rather than styles like MS Office and Libre Office and it's easier to see what's going on (and fix problems) with stream formatting & reveal codes with than any of the tools provided in MS Office or Libre Office. On the other hand, it apparently is very difficult to get WordPerfect's current file format to work well with Unicode.

You are probably right. My problem is-- there is no reason for most people to use styles to begin with. If there is a tutorial for using styles in either suite, I am not aware of it (not that I've gone looking for it).

Why use an object-oriented paradigm to begin with? What was Microsoft's intent, there? And, of course, everyone has to follow their lead-- even Word Perfect 8 was a virtual clone of Office 95-- and go with objects and styles...

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee303/Dngrs_1/ranting.gif

[keithpeter]

Hello All

LibreOffice/OpenOffice Maths formulas are great, don't change them, except by adding multi-line support as suggested above. I use this feature daily.

Now, how about a small, fast word processor? Something like Mellel (http://www.mellel.com/) on Mac OS? Would run on a legacy laptop to make good use of redundant hardware.

Just words and the processing thereof, forget the page layout &c. With LaTeX import for charts and formulas. Word 5 on Mac had it almost right.

Abiword is getting better but still does not quite fit the bill.

[Ddeeff]

My number one criticism with Libre Office are the rings we have to run around page styles to get just one page landscape in a document of mainly portrait. I've never managed it myself, but I get annoyed easily. I think the problem is that the process is not intuitive.

Whilst I was a student, I would have like to see a similar feature to Word's citations and bibliography feature that prevented hours of citation-based fun.

[uturniturn]

Just combine a Browser with an email client!!! the rest is easy, its only a question of polemic regarding cost or free. Bingo! In the meantime as an ex Windows user can anybody give me the 'terminal' dialogue to install Seamonkey 2.7.1 from a Google Chrome browse search to my newly installed Ubuntu 10.11 LFX Gnome 3.0

Make me a believer because i need to get to work and earn so money!

:D

[juancarlospaco]

HTML5 editing feature, all my last documents are done on HTML5,
its better than PDF... :)

[Copper Bezel]

For me, the math function in LibreOffice is great, I just with it would be easier to write formulas over multiple lines easily. I often do mathematical proofs for homework, and it's cumbersome to have to either create new formula boxes every line, or type in "newline" at the correct positions all the time. Perhaps TeX integration would be the best way?
That could be a serious killer feature. I don't do maths, but the majority of student users do, and using TeX could be a serious selling point for a Linux-based office suite.


I agree that UI is a big issue. I don't know what actual solutions are possible, but I would like to see a bigger emphasis on UI Design. Some way for the LibreOffice folk to observe users and iterate through UI designs would be optimal. That is to say, I would like to see a modern UI design process.
Agreed, although testing is complicated by the fact that for something like LibreOffice, a particular user makes use of a small subset of the functions, which differs from another user's, and so on. Part of why I think a selection of more specialized tools might be in order. (And academic / business seems like the first obvious split, since people who use TeX and people who use mail merge are probably almost mutually exclusive groups.)


I think OOXML support should be made a priority. Right now, LibreOffice does not hold the moral high ground. Even it turns out that MS doesn't follow their own spec, if LibreOffice can implement OOXML full according to the ISO specifications, then we can proceed to blame MS. As it is, the FOSS community has no right to point fingers.
Agreed. They give the impression that they're just sore about Microsoft stealing their idea and having the power to implement it. If their goals with the Open Document Format were what they said they were, then Office Open XML meets them and is the de facto standard. Handle .docx correctly, and you don't need .odt.

For anyone mentioning .doc, don't confuse it with .docx; .odt and .docx (or more broadly, OOXML and ODF) were both designed with the same goals of solving the problems of the proprietary, binary, and sloppy .doc, .xls, and .ppt formats.


This thread is long overdue! There is a serious lack in Libreoffice that has made me contemplating buying a copy of MS Word. In MS Word you've had grammar check for ages. I think it must have been around since Word 97. Fifteen years later, there is still no grammar check in OO/LO. Although the grammar check isn't perfect even in word, it is immensely useful for those of us who aren't native English speakers. I guess discussion of the UI is in its place, but if I finally end up getting a copy of MS Word, it has nothing to do with its UI.
Yeah, that's a real consideration, and there are some common problems for even native speakers that grammar checks can help to avert. But especially, as you say, for English as a second language, I see your meaning. MS Word's ability to parse sentence structure is fairly limited, and it gives a lot of wrong suggestions, but it can prevent a lot of commonly confused words and the like.

It's interesting - grammar check actually debuted in Abiword, but it's only available for LO as a couple of very incomplete extensions. I really wonder why that's the case.


Export into .epub format for EBooks (a la Caliber or Sigil).

It would be great to write ebooks in LibreOffice.
Good idea. Could be neat. It could be complicated, since .epub is a dynamic format, and I wonder whether the needs of an editor that expects reflowable text and one that doesn't are fully compatible. But it would be worth exploring, I'd think, if no one has. It also fits in with, again, the less businessy side of word processing and seems like a market worth pursuing.


I think part of the formatting issues between Word and OOo/Libre Office has to do with fonts.
Usually paragraph formatting and graphics positioning, in my experience. It doesn't really matter whether the fonts are the same between platforms. I mean, I have MS core fonts installed on my box, but that doesn't solve most of the problems.


It could be that. It could also be that people do not use Word (and probably Libre Office) as it is intended to be used. I've read that people should use styles a lot more than they do rather than spaces and tabs and changing margins nilly willy. Documents whose paragraphs are formatted with styles - even if the paragraph is one line - 'travel' better. How true is this? I don't know, just what I read and it seemed reasonable at the time
This is true, but the software needs to reflect the use, as Ddeeff said. MS Word is a little more flexible this way; LibreOffice can't have different headers on different pages without hardcore Styles guru powers. The ideal is a smart word processor that recognizes the styles being used and applies them invisibly; the template is produced as the document is created. Word is closer to that than LibreOffice, but they're both far from the mark.


Whilst I was a student, I would have like to see a similar feature to Word's citations and bibliography feature that prevented hours of citation-based fun
It would be really nice to see templates built in for MLA and APA formatting. It takes ten minutes to make one, you can download them online, but putting them in the core package saves a step, and if the audience for a package was primarily students and educators, that could really mean something.


HTML5 editing feature, all my last documents are done on HTML5, its better than PDF.
Huh. So is what you're doing WYSISWG, or are you just writing tags?


Just words and the processing thereof, forget the page layout &c. With LaTeX import for charts and formulas. Word 5 on Mac had it almost right.
Now, that's interesting, as is Mellel. I end up doing most of my typing in gedit (which is where I am right now.) I only jump over to LO, or compose windows or whatever else, after I've typed up the body text. So to me, layout is what a word processor does. But I've used Abiword in the past for similar reasons, as a no-distractions document editor with some basic formatting (like italics and such.) Obviously I wasn't doing maths, so I didn't need LaTeX. Maybe you're right that there needs to be a distinction between the manuscript and typesetting roles of a word processor, enough that they ought to be completely separate applications.

[juancarlospaco]

Huh. So is what you're doing WYSISWG, or are you just writing tags?


http://maqetta.org

[Primefalcon]

Libreoffice does everything I need

[JDShu]

That could be a serious killer feature. I don't do maths, but the majority of student users do, and using TeX could be a serious selling point for a Linux-based office suite.


Indeed, I'm not quite sure what the barriers to TeX are, exactly, as it is actually quite difficult to get up to date TeX support on a Linux machine.



Agreed, although testing is complicated by the fact that for something like LibreOffice, a particular user makes use of a small subset of the functions, which differs from another user's, and so on. Part of why I think a selection of more specialized tools might be in order. (And academic / business seems like the first obvious split, since people who use TeX and people who use mail merge are probably almost mutually exclusive groups.)


This is true, and a compromise does have to be made. The first step then is to decide "who uses LibreOffice?". I haven't though about it enough to know the answer, but I do know that the answer is not "everybody". Again, it's something for the real UI experts to decide, and I hope that they do get involved. Developers are notoriously bad at it :)



Agreed. They give the impression that they're just sore about Microsoft stealing their idea and having the power to implement it. If their goals with the Open Document Format were what they said they were, then Office Open XML meets them and is the de facto standard. Handle .docx correctly, and you don't need .odt.


I do understand the fears here, because LibreOffice could implement word for word the OOXML specs, and still not be compatible with MS Office, either because the specs are not precise enough, or MS is not interested in following their own specs. And it's obvious that if this was the outcome, it's still LibreOffice that would be blamed by mainstream users. In the end though, I think it's important to try to suite the user's needs to the best of our ability, even if the best may fall short. This is what I mean by the moral high ground.

[Simian Man]

The reason all word processors suck is because they mix content up with formatting. We learned long ago that this was an awful idea, and it's why CSS was created for web pages. Microsoft Office is the best word processor out there because Microsoft has spent a lot of resources making the traditional model of the word processor as good as possible, but that doesn't change the fact that the model sucks. If you stress Word enough, you will see this. My (non-techie) wife was doing her dissertation in Word and it was a nightmare. Small changes to the content would wreck the formatting (which had to be very specifically done).

With LaTeX, the content and presentation are separated. You specify what you want in the document and it takes care of the formatting. LaTeX has a definite learning curve though. There is also LyX which is like a frontend to LaTeX with a more familiar work environment. LyX still would be pretty confusing for most users. If someone put the effort into this model of document preparation that has been put into traditional WYSYWIG document creation, I think it would be a much better product than anything currently available.

[juancarlospaco]

HTML5 > Latex
for docs

[Simian Man]

HTML5 > Latex
for docs

How so? I've never seen a web page look as good as the pdf output produced by LaTeX. Likewise pdf is a better format for distributing documents because it is supported everywhere and doesn't rely on browser compliance of a standard that hasn't even been fully developed yet.

LaTeX also uses fewer tags than HTML for most things. In LaTeX, after the preamble stuff, I mainly just have the document content with occasional \section or \includegraphics. With HTML, you need more. For example to separate paragraphs in LaTeX, you just put a blank line between them. With HTML, you need to put in <div> and </div>.

That Maqetta link you posted seems to be for making user interfaces, not making documents, so I don't know how it is any easier to make documents in HTML5.

I've seen you shouting the wonders of HTML5 in other threads, but I really don't think it's the panacea you seem to think it is.

[sn0m]

EndNote or a similar program that integrates flawlessly with libreoffice writer and can manage references or bibliography. EndNote is the reason why I have windows xp on my virtual machine.

[cwklinuxguy]

Not sure what the most recent on this is, as the article is quite out of date, but it so happens that LibreOffice did, at one time, have a proposed new interface called Citrus (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/). I've gotta admit it's slick, although the interface seems to be targeted at mouse-happy users, and I'm a keyboard guy through and through. I'd happily scrap my mouse if I could.

Hmm...I guess the one thing I'd like to see is improved compatibility, as I know that certain issues such as images not showing up when you convert from .odp to.ppt is an ongoing and annoying problem. I know, however, that trying to reverse-engineer these file formats can't be the easiest thing on the planet, so I'm not gonna be harsh on the LibreOffice team.

The other thing is I think that Impress needs a massive overhaul in general...perhaps moreso imitating Apple Keynote? I rarely design presentations in LibreOffice because I know I can get so much more power and flexibility (and ease of use) when I just stick with Apple's paid office suite.

[Dngrsone]

You know what would really help me out, is being able to use multiple dictionaries for autocorrect.

Seriously, if it has a diacritical, it doesn't exist in the English dictionary?

If I'm doing a report on Ontario Province, I'm going to need both English and French dictionaries, same kind of thing if my daughter is doing a report on Mexican traditions.

[Copper Bezel]

Good point. There are a lot of situations where that would be useful. Anyone doing linguistics or lit work across languages, or even making up a simple bilingual document, could take advantage of that.

I'm not quite sure about the idea going around of complete separation between formatting and typing. I mean, there would be a real advantage to being able to see and edit formatting marks when needed, but it's also nice to be able to type directly into the formatted document. I'm really getting sold on the idea of having separate drafting and typesetting modes, though, and I'm beginning to wonder if a typesetting mode could be designed so that styles and formatting are front and center with the option of editing text, rather than a sheet of text with invisible and often very messy sets of hard formatting applied.


Not sure what the most recent on this is, as the article is quite out of date, but it so happens that LibreOffice did, at one time, have a proposed new interface called Citrus. I've gotta admit it's slick, although the interface seems to be targeted at mouse-happy users, and I'm a keyboard guy through and through. I'd happily scrap my mouse if I could.
Yeah, I mentioned Citrus in the OP, and I agree that it's just about the best word processor interface I've seen. I hadn't considered the keyboard aspect - I depend pretty heavily on the basic keyboard navigation in LO, things like bold / italic, copy / paste, inserting comments, and everything to do with the Ctrl key (backspacing a word or inserting a page break,) but I don't use much beyond those. It's fair to consider that an application where most of your time is spent typing needs to be open to pretty extensive keyboard interaction.


This is true, and a compromise does have to be made. The first step then is to decide "who uses LibreOffice?". I haven't though about it enough to know the answer, but I do know that the answer is not "everybody". Again, it's something for the real UI experts to decide, and I hope that they do get involved. Developers are notoriously bad at it :)
Well put. = ) But it's fun to speculate.

[Dry Lips]

What would you like to see in an office suite or word processor for Linux, or any platform? What are your absolute-must-have features, what would be nice, and what's the "clutter" you'd rather see left out?


This thread is long overdue! There is a serious lack in Libreoffice that has made me contemplating buying a copy of MS Word. In MS Word you've had grammar check for ages. I think it must have been around since Word 97. Fifteen years later, there is still no grammar check in OO/LO. Although the grammar check isn't perfect even in word, it is immensely useful for those of us who aren't native English speakers. I guess discussion of the UI is in its place, but if I finally end up getting a copy of MS Word, it has nothing to do with its UI.



Yeah, that's a real consideration, and there are some common problems for even native speakers that grammar checks can help to avert. But especially, as you say, for English as a second language, I see your meaning. MS Word's ability to parse sentence structure is fairly limited, and it gives a lot of wrong suggestions, but it can prevent a lot of commonly confused words and the like.

It's interesting - grammar check actually debuted in Abiword, but it's only available for LO as a couple of very incomplete extensions. I really wonder why that's the case.


\\:D/=D>:-({|=:guitar:

Happy days!! This is exciting:


LibreOffice 3.5 released, introduces new grammar tool

"One of the major new features introduced in LibreOffice 3.5 is a new grammar checking tool. The feature is built with Lightproof, a language-neutral grammatical analysis tool that is implemented in Python and has a sophisticated regex-based rule system."

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/02/libreoffice-35-released-introduces-new-grammar-tool.ars


(but still something like the extension Language Tool ought to be included.)

[devanson]

Hi.. This might be a stupid question. I am new to this Libreoffice. I used to do lots of xls and ppt stuffs for my work.

During my pitch (ppt) creation, i used to move here and there (by rolling my mouse wheel) to glance at my slide stuff.

But in libreoffice-impress, its different. When I scroll my mouse wheel, its moving between top and bottom of a slide. I am compelled to move through by using the side-view panel, which is bit frustrating for me.

Is there a way to assign mouse wheel scrolling to view slides, in normal view?

[Copper Bezel]

Probably not, no. I mean, you have to be able to navigate within the slide, and along the slide list, somehow, and using up and down and left to right scrolling for panning is just the universal convention in almost any application. You can always click to focus the slide reel, then use the up and down arrows.


"One of the major new features introduced in LibreOffice 3.5 is a new grammar checking tool. The feature is built with Lightproof, a language-neutral grammatical analysis tool that is implemented in Python and has a sophisticated regex-based rule system."
That is exciting! = )