Funny little story I thought I might share.

[solarwind]

Yes, this is off topic, I know.


Yesterday I went to the store BestsBuyz (you know what I mean). So I was checking out some nice computers near the service and support counter. I overheard some idiot talking to a technician.

Customer: I recently bought a laptop with "built in internet". It has always worked for me and the other day, it stopped working! (He was using ******* XP Pro, by the way)

Technician: Well, let me take a look at it while you're here and tell you what's wrong.
*starts up ******* and connects to the internet service in the store* Everything seems to be ok, you're clear to go.

Customer: *goes home*, *comes back*
Customer: Hey! This is not working again, the "built in internet" is not working!

Technician: This is working just fine, what router are you using by the way?

Customer: Huh? Router? What's that?

Technician: You dont know what a router is?!?!?

Customer: no.

Technician: *looks at the network logs*, You have been connecting to your neighbours internet ([aside] dumb idiot!) ](*,)

*turns out that the ignorant customer's ******* was automatically connecting to his neighbour's internet and the dumb customer was just stupid and knows nothing about customers*

Lol, the future generation may very well be the most stupidest generation of all, where everything is automatic and intergrated (i have nothing against intergrated tech, but just think that people should be educated).

[bruce89]

Hoy, I'm not stupid, but most of my generation are!

[jonathanm]

rofl

[slugkilla]

How long were you at the store. The guy went home and came back?? That is a funny story.

[ifokkema]

Once read somewhere some story about someone buying a computer and calling tech support about it not working. Turned out he plugged it all in, but never pushed the Power button. Another user broke his CDrom by using the tray as an cup holder. You never know if these stories are true, but if so: makes you wonder why some people bother buying a computer.

[Lord Illidan]

I think people should get to know their system more. This is what Windows lacks. I might be elitist, but I think only educated people should be allowed near a computer.

[cstudent]

Lol, the future generation may very well be the most stupidest generation of all, where everything is automatic and intergrated (i have nothing against intergrated tech, but just think that people should be educated).

I'm an old timer by comparison to a lot of the members of the forum. I had a thought a while back about how the great grand kids may not even know how to open a door. I was in a public restroom where the door opened automatically. The sink came on when you put your hands under it. The towel rack dispensed single sheets when you passed your hand in front of it. The toilets flushed automatically. I could just picture some kid in the future going up to the door of an old building and just standing there waiting for it to open. :)

.

[meng]

How long were you at the store. The guy went home and came back?? That is a funny story.
I have to agree, the word "apocryphal" comes to mind immediately...

[ifokkema]

I could just picture some kid in the future going up to the door of an old building and just standing there waiting for it to open. :)

LOL
Kid - Daddy, the door doesn't open!
Dad - Try and move around near it, so it can see you.
Kid - It doesn't work, dad!
Dad - The door's gone blind, son. You can't go through it until they fix it.

[matthew]

Amusing. This really belongs in the Cafe so I'm going to move it there. :)

[bonzodog]

I don't want to be a spoiler, but this is a popular computer tech 'urban legend'. I believe you will find it at snopes.com.

[xXx 0wn3d xXx]

Windows seems to be too user friendly. Mac is also the same way. People don't know how to work with their technical problems and solve them. One time I moved the taskbar on a friend's computer from the bottom to the top and locked it. As a result, he started freaking out, thinking that someone was controlling his computer. It was really funny but I ended up fixing it for him, and he thought it was amazing that I know how to do that.

[ifokkema]

People don't know how to work with their technical problems and solve them.

True, a person I know (better not get into details, who knows who reads this) thinks he's a complete computer-expert (Windows user), but he's the one f*cking everyone's installs up completely. He just messes around deleting files and folders from /winnt that he doesn't recognize and then I can come by and fix the problems he created. Of course he claims the problem has always been there and he almost got it fixed. Yeah, right.

But I must say: the people switching to Linux are, on avarage, the more experienced computer user WILLING to fix their own problems and WILLING to learn from them. At least, that's my experience.

[aysiu]

What I find disturbing is people making analogies between knowing how to use/maintain a computer and knowing how to repair a car.

Doing some basic troubleshooting and configuration is more like knowing how to drive a car and not damage it--don't grind the gears, don't lean your tire against the curb, don't accelerate too quickly, don't turn it off if the engine is idling for only twenty seconds otherwise, don't speed up quickly and then constantly break (drive as much at a constant speed as possible).

These simple end-user behaviors and knowledge-bytes are akin to realizing basically how an internet connection works, how to avoid spyware, and learning enough about user permissions to secure your computer.

But I've read on these forums and others that most users "don't care" about how their computers work, just as most people "don't care" about how their cars work.

Well, I don't know the difference between a logical or a primary partition. I can't install a new processor or motherboard on my computer. I certainly can't build a computer from scratch, but I can use an operating system and know how not to steal my neighbor's internet connection.

There are basic things people should know about computers and don't. They know to fill up their car with gas (or petrol) and get regular oil changes, but they don't know not to just download anything on the planet or click on links from phishing emails. There's just way too much computer ignorance out there.

I was in Best Buy the other week with my wife, and I saw the price for the "Geek Squad" service there. They charge something like (if I'm remembering correctly) US$29 for installing software. What? Who thinks it's worth it to physically lug a computer in to Best Buy and pay someone $29 to install software for them?

I can understand replacing a fan or some mechanical moving part, but software? Just pop the CD in!

[curuxz]

Windows seems to be too user friendly.

I agree, lets all go back to the CLI, who needs Xwindows any way ;)

Wireless is possibly the stupidest idea I have ever herd, dont get me wrong I love it but its like having a guest hole in the side of your wall for when people come to visit, sure its handy but its %£$%£$ stupid as far as security goes. Then combine it with the least secure operating system and the average home user and see how long it takes you to work out why digital crime is rising by something like ten fold every year in the UK (duno about the US).

Its a good job the people of this forum are law abiding honest citizens because the amout of tech knowlege around here with wireless technology could make for an unstopable crime wave lol. Tho wireless is good if your router breaks like mine did last week and you hop on to someone elses network :D

[catlett]

If you like that, you can go here and get hundreds of them. (I hate to say it but that story probably came from here, quoting sources is important in forums too :wink: ) http://rinkworks.com/stupid/

[cstudent]

...Well, I don't know the difference between a logical or a primary partition. I can't install a new processor or motherboard on my computer. I certainly can't build a computer from scratch,...

Something tells me aysiu that it wouldn't take you long to learn how. You should make it a project sometime to build a system from scratch. It's not that hard and it's cool to use a system you put together yourself.


.

[aysiu]

I don't know.

I have no problem tinkering around with software, but hardware scares me a little bit. If I screw up my Ubuntu installation (as long as I've backed up my personal files), I can always reinstall.

If I screw up my hard drive or my motherboard... well, I have to spend money to buy a new one. No thanks.

When I was at my parents' house this past Christmas, my dad changed the processor in my mom's computer, and he had a hell of a time getting the fan off the processor. My wife had to do it because neither my dad nor I could.

Yeah, anything involving physical putting together of stuff requires too much dexterity of me. I'm clumsy--that's why I ran track in high school--too uncoordinated to do a "real" sport.

[Engnome]

I think people should get to know their system more. This is what Windows lacks. I might be elitist, but I think only educated people should be allowed near a computer.

Well as technology progresses there will be more and more to learn. Sme people just dont want to care. Maybe the world will be divided by

1 People who care about learning this new intersting technology and what makes it tick

2 And those who just wanna click the big "click here" button to read the news chat with friends etc.

Those who dont will run "whatever works" (potential MS victims)

Some might say this is sad but its in our nature to be lazy so "whatever works" is probably the best for them. If a user is stupid/beginner It might not be the best idea to try and make them switch to Linux (wich is better if you know it/have time to learn) if windows works let them be happy. If they want to pay someone to install software for them let them pay for that service.

(but I still think they would be stupid to pay for it :grin: It's in our nature right?)

[cstudent]

Well as technology progresses there will be more and more to learn. Sme people just dont want to care. Maybe the world will be divided by

1 People who care about learning this new intersting technology and what makes it tick

2 And those who just wanna click the big "click here" button to read the news chat with friends etc.

Those who dont will run "whatever works" (potential MS victims)

Some might say this is sad but its in our nature to be lazy so "whatever works" is probably the best for them. If a user is stupid/beginner It might not be the best idea to try and make them switch to Linux (wich is better if you know it/have time to learn) if windows works let them be happy. If they want to pay someone to install software for them let them pay for that service.

(but I still think they would be stupid to pay for it :grin: It's in our nature right?)



I think the world is already divided this way. And I believe Microsoft counts on people remaining ignorant about how their system works. I tell all new computer users to be prepared to learn a thing or two about how to fix their problems or be prepared to fork over cash. Most are willing to learn.

.

[aysiu]

You may be right, Engnome, but I hope not.

There are different degrees of caring, different levels of understanding.

My hope is that most people will realize a need to care about understanding enough about technology to be efficient and safe.

They don't have to understand everything about how something works but enough to not have to throw away a computer just because it's riddled for spyware, for example.

I don't think it's "ease of use" that makes people not care--I think it's the relatively low cost of technology that's made gadgets disposable and not worth learning how to fix when you can just buy a new one.

For example, if you have an iPod and are not the sort to replace the battery yourself, you have to consider, "Should I pay Apple $100 to replace my battery... or just get the new iPod Nano instead?"

[solarwind]

Yeah, well, that's the way the world spins. I'm surrounded by idiots everyday at school. (Yes, I'm a kid who started the thread)

[Ubunted]

I work tech support at the local ISP.

I have actually had a customer that had been connecting and using his neighbor's wireless router for over three months. 40 bucks per month for nothing. His modem logs showed zero activity and his rommate was wondering why his own wireless was not working.

The SSID was - of course - "linksys".

[Engnome]

I agree with you aysiu guess its hard to say "THIS is how it is!" world isnt that simple.

However after reading on that computer joke site makes me wonder about the future of simple "users"

for example:
Woman 1: "What is that little trash can on the screen?"
Woman 2: "My son says that is call the 'recycle bin'. He tells me when I don't want a Word document anymore and I delete it, it really goes in there."
Woman 1: "Why in the recycle thingy? Can't you just erase it?"
Woman 2: "Oh no, Word wouldn't work for very long if I did that, I would run out of blank pages."
Woman 1: "Why?"
Woman 2: "Because it cleans the words off the pages, then sends the blank sheets back to Word so they can be used again. That's why it's called the recycle bin."

Hopefully they are a minority and will continue to be so.

[solarwind]

I agree with you aysiu guess its hard to say "THIS is how it is!" world isnt that simple.

However after reading on that computer joke site makes me wonder about the future of simple "users"

for example:
Woman 1: "What is that little trash can on the screen?"
Woman 2: "My son says that is call the 'recycle bin'. He tells me when I don't want a Word document anymore and I delete it, it really goes in there."
Woman 1: "Why in the recycle thingy? Can't you just erase it?"
Woman 2: "Oh no, Word wouldn't work for very long if I did that, I would run out of blank pages."
Woman 1: "Why?"
Woman 2: "Because it cleans the words off the pages, then sends the blank sheets back to Word so they can be used again. That's why it's called the recycle bin."

Hopefully they are a minority and will continue to be so.



LOL, I just finished reading that and other funny stories on that hilarious site. Wow, what will the world come to... I mean, years ago, we actually had to use a VT100 and stuff to do things. We also had to manually do everything. I guess as time goes by, technology will advance and so will the idiotic community. It's sad.

[aysiu]

LOL, I just finished reading that and other funny stories on that hilarious site. Wow, what will the world come to... I mean, years ago, we actually had to use a VT100 and stuff to do things. We also had to manually do everything. I guess as time goes by, technology will advance and so will the idiotic community. It's sad. Before using the mouse was commonplace, I don't remember complaining (or hearing any of my classmates complain) when we had to use the keyboard for everything and commands for everything... this was only about twenty years ago.

Just getting three colors on a monitor was a breakthrough--CGA!

[cstudent]

I started out using a VT100. I remember when Windows first hit the market I thought, "That will never fly. You need to enter commands to work a computer". Shows you how much I know. Maybe that's why I like using Linux so much. I get to do some things the way I first learned how to.


.

[Engnome]

Before using the mouse was commonplace, I don't remember complaining (or hearing any of my classmates complain) when we had to use the keyboard for everything and commands for everything... this was only about twenty years ago.

Just getting three colors on a monitor was a breakthrough--CGA!


Omg youre from the dark stone age =P The problem is that people that liked technology were the people who used computers back then, now you almost HAVE to have a computer or else... Wich of course get alot of users who really dont care enough to have a computer get one anyway. ( and in the process polluting the internet with spam and other nasty stuff)

[solarwind]

Omg youre from the dark stone age =P The problem is that people that liked technology were the people who used computers back then, now you almost HAVE to have a computer or else... Wich of course get alot of users who really dont care enough to have a computer get one anyway. ( and in the process polluting the internet with spam and other nasty stuff)

LOL, do you know where spam and viruses originated?

They originated from ******* users who had no life. If Linux was more popular, everyone would be more peaceful and not have to shell out a couple of hundred bucks for a useless operating system like *******.

I completely agree with the philosophy of Ubuntu. Free software for everyone. I feel I should contribute as wll (the only thing I know right now is fltk programming in x windows.) But hey, I'm only a teenager.

[ihavenoname]

I'm an old timer by comparison to a lot of the members of the forum. I had a thought a while back about how the great grand kids may not even know how to open a door. I was in a public restroom where the door opened automatically. The sink came on when you put your hands under it. The towel rack dispensed single sheets when you passed your hand in front of it. The toilets flushed automatically. I could just picture some kid in the future going up to the door of an old building and just standing there waiting for it to open. :)

.
umm your signature....what do you mean by it? What Distro do you use?

[briancurtin]

Technician: *looks at the network logs*, You have been connecting to your neighbours internet ([aside] dumb idiot!) ](*,)

*turns out that the ignorant customer's ******* was automatically connecting to his neighbour's internet and the dumb customer was just stupid and knows nothing about customers*

Lol, the future generation may very well be the most stupidest generation of all, where everything is automatic and intergrated (i have nothing against intergrated tech, but just think that people should be educated).
whats so dumb about swiping other peoples internet? if they arent smart enough to put a simple password on their wireless router, why shouldnt someone use it? i had free wireless for like 6 months because someone around me was the idiot.

spelling "windows" as "*******" is so cool... thats another reason why the future generation is going where its going.

[cstudent]

umm your signature....what do you mean by it? What Distro do you use?

I use good 'ol regular flavored Ubuntu 6.06 (5.10 still on some machines). The butterfly I'm refering to is the MS butterfly logo.


.

[futz]

is more like knowing how to drive a car and not damage it--don't grind the gears, don't lean your tire against the curb, don't accelerate too quickly, don't turn it off if the engine is idling for only twenty seconds otherwise, don't speed up quickly and then constantly break (drive as much at a constant speed as possible).
Geesh, Grandpa! You're missing out on half the fun of driving!! :cool:

[sherlock-holmes]

Yes, this is off topic, I know.


Yesterday I went to the store BestsBuyz (you know what I mean). So I was checking out some nice computers near the service and support counter. I overheard some idiot talking to a technician.

Customer: I recently bought a laptop with "built in internet". It has always worked for me and the other day, it stopped working! (He was using ******* XP Pro, by the way)

Technician: Well, let me take a look at it while you're here and tell you what's wrong.
*starts up ******* and connects to the internet service in the store* Everything seems to be ok, you're clear to go.

Customer: *goes home*, *comes back*
Customer: Hey! This is not working again, the "built in internet" is not working!

Technician: This is working just fine, what router are you using by the way?

Customer: Huh? Router? What's that?

Technician: You dont know what a router is?!?!?

Customer: no.

Technician: *looks at the network logs*, You have been connecting to your neighbours internet ([aside] dumb idiot!) ](*,)

*turns out that the ignorant customer's ******* was automatically connecting to his neighbour's internet and the dumb customer was just stupid and knows nothing about customers*

Lol, the future generation may very well be the most stupidest generation of all, where everything is automatic and intergrated (i have nothing against intergrated tech, but just think that people should be educated).

here is another one i witnessed....

my friend: uncle, this is the computer i was talking about. we can draw things, listen to songs, watch movies etc.. [this was looong time ago..it was a pentium-1 btw]

uncle: wow, nice color... son, i heard that there are problems with some kind of bacterial infection or something...??

me: "escape"...

oh yea..not a good one... :mrgreen:

[Patrick-Ruff]

lmao, this is hilarious, the stupidity of our generation grows! lol. its almost as if manufactures need to CLEARLY state **** like this 'Built in internet does NOT mean you get internet everywhere without paying for internet service, IDIOT!' lol. perhaps not in such blunt terms but, just emphizing my point here :).

[RRS]

lmao, this is hilarious, the stupidity of our generation grows! lol. its almost as if manufactures need to CLEARLY state **** like this 'Built in internet does NOT mean you get internet everywhere without paying for internet service, IDIOT!' lol. perhaps not in such blunt terms but, just emphizing my point here :).

On the other hand;
"..............I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Of course I'm refering to more then just computers

[ihavenoname]

I use good 'ol regular flavored Ubuntu 6.06 (5.10 still on some machines). The butterfly I'm refering to is the MS butterfly logo.


.
Haha, silly me I had an image of an actual butterfly dieing, I didn't even think about the MS butterfly. Thanks for clearing that up. (Yes, the stupidity of our generation grows <looks around with a guilty face>

[cormic]

whats so dumb about swiping other peoples internet? if they arent smart enough to put a simple password on their wireless router, why shouldnt someone use it? i had free wireless for like 6 months because someone around me was the idiot

That is known as theft.

[Engnome]

That is known as theft.

Not in Sweden, I can borrow neigbours wlan how much i want if its unencrypted:grin: They cant say sue or anything like that if they find out. But their ISP can because they have shared their internet. However breaking into an encrypted network is illegal though.

[Alpha_toxic]

An actual thread in one pretty big local forum, primarily tech oriented (the original is not in english):

- First: So, one of my HDDs is giving me problems and I'm thinking to get it repaired, but the NTLDR is on it and the box doesn't boot without it. Even if I copy NTLDR to the other HDD, it still doesn't work. Any ideas?
(This is a normal question, it happens if you don't install win on the first HDD and should get fixed with FIXMBR. But here comes one MIGHTY answer.)

- Second: Reinstall your drivers and install the newest NERO! (WTF?!?!?)

- First: What does NERO has to do with my problem? (a good question...)

- Second: Well, it increases the burning speed. I've worked with CloneCD and CloneDVD, I've tested with a clock, Nero is faster. Plus, the new NERO has Ultra Bufer.

:shock: this is just an example to show that some people are not just completely ignorant, but they also think they know everything...

[wmcbrine]

whats so dumb about swiping other peoples internet?Not knowing that you're doing it, and thinking that if a computer says it has "built-in Internet", that all you have to do is turn it on, without (legally or otherwise) obtaining service. In this case (if the story is true), by the sheer luck of having an unsecure WAP nearby, it actually worked. But the guy didn't know what he was doing.

[Christmas]

Most of the people (especially if they are new to computers and want to use them out of the box) expect that a service will work OK, after all they paid for it. At least this is my impression, in the beginning I was the same. I remember how I kept trying to access the internet even there was no phone cable present, but I had my dial-up connection configured by the service guys. Those days are past now, but I don't laugh at people who don't know basic computer things, heck I was the same!

[ifokkema]

On the other hand;
"..............I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Of course I'm refering to more then just computers

Wasn't there once this woman trying to dry her hair in a microwave? I was told she took off (or mislead) the safety and just put her haid in...

What's that smell? :)

[solarwind]

Yeah, people that don't know what a computer is or how it works should not be allowed near a computer. By "how it works" I mean that they should know basic things. Like, c'mon, if you think that the recycle bin sends blank pages to a word processor, you should not be allowed near a computer.

[kanem]

aysiu brought up the car analogy and, as usual, was spot on; people don't need to know how their car works, but they do need to know how to maintain it (gas, oil changes, maybe even changing a flat tire). Just like how people don't really need to know how their computer works, but they do know how to maintain it.

But I want to extend that analogy and rant a little. When I was a kid you could fix your own car. For nearly every car made there was a several hundred page book that would tell you everything about that car. My dad never took our cars to a mechanic, he fixed it himself.

Nowadays most cars have parts and processors whose specs are kept secret. Many car problems you can't fix yourself or even go to a small garage to pay to have it fixed. You have to go to a dealership who has paid the car maker money just to have access to the secrets of the car and how to fix it. Which takes away control and money from you.

Which is where I'm afraid computers are headed what with the commoditization of computers. If people don't know or care how their computer works, then they are less likely to care if they are even allowed to know how it works. But if the masses don't care then the computer/software makers will get away with hoarding their secrets. And the result will be that even those of us who want to know how our computers work, or even just want to fix them ourselves when they break will not be allowed to.

Oh man, I'm really working myself up. I think I'll start a thread.

[aysiu]

That's really true, kanem. When I first started driving, my dad taught me how to change the oil in my car, and I could do it. Then, when I got a newer car, we couldn't do it any more.

The way the car had been built, it was impossible for a normal person in her garage to reach the oil filter to change it. You would need some special tools or that thing that lifts up your car to be able to find it.

Cars are definitely designed now to make it difficult to maintain yourself. For example, a lot of cars now have "service engine soon" lights that turn on... or just a picture of a wrench. Instead of telling you what's wrong, they want you to go to the dealer or a car mechanic and have them tell you what's wrong--and charge you for it.

I don't know if computers will go this way, but I hope not.

[qBaz]

Cars are definitely designed now to make it difficult to maintain yourself. For example, a lot of cars now have "service engine soon" lights that turn on... or just a picture of a wrench. Instead of telling you what's wrong, they want you to go to the dealer or a car mechanic and have them tell you what's wrong--and charge you for it.

I don't know if computers will go this way, but I hope not.

Besides the obvious comparisons between closed-source and open-source development, you mean? :)

More seriously, though, I think this is the tradeoff that some zealots on both sides don't seem to acknowledge: that there will always be people who would like to be able to get into the nuts and bolts of their car after reading the hundred-page-manual, and there will always be people for whom it's worth it to pay someone else to do it, while they knit or cook a meal or fly kites or whatever makes their life worthwhile to them.

The hard part is recognizing that your neighbor's approach is just as valid as yours, even if it's the opposite. :)

[cstudent]

You would need some special tools or that thing that lifts up your car to be able to find it.

That device is actually called a Lift. I use to work for a company that sold and installed them.


Cars are definitely designed now to make it difficult to maintain yourself. For example, a lot of cars now have "service engine soon" lights that turn on... or just a picture of a wrench. Instead of telling you what's wrong, they want you to go to the dealer or a car mechanic and have them tell you what's wrong--and charge you for it.

Car engineers obviously make enough money that they never have to work on their own designs. If they did, you wouldn't have to remove the freakin' engine just to change the spark plugs.

.

[catlett]

Besides the obvious comparisons between closed-source and open-source development, you mean? :)

More seriously, though, I think this is the tradeoff that some zealots on both sides don't seem to acknowledge: that there will always be people who would like to be able to get into the nuts and bolts of their car after reading the hundred-page-manual, and there will always be people for whom it's worth it to pay someone else to do it, while they knit or cook a meal or fly kites or whatever makes their life worthwhile to them.

The hard part is recognizing that your neighbor's approach is just as valid as yours, even if it's the opposite. :)
I have no problem with my "neighbor's" approach but I do have a problem with my approach being denied to me just because most peopole do it like my neighbor.

[qBaz]

I have no problem with my "neighbor's" approach but I do have a problem with my approach being denied to me just because most people do it like my neighbor.

Oh, absolutely. "Live and let live" is the way to go, IMO, and it's staggering (and depressing) how many people don't get that, whether politically, personally, or professionally.

[_simon_]

I used to work for an ISP supervising the support team. The amount of people who did not know what OS they used was amazing.

Some real life examples:

Support agent: What Operating System are you using?
Customer: I don't know...
Support agent: is it Windows?
Customer: How do I tell?

--

Support agent: What Operating System are you using?
Customer: Windows 96

--

Support agent: What Operating System are you using?
Customer: How should I know, you tell me your the "support"

--

Customer: I can't connect to the internet
Support Agent: Can you check your modem cable/ethernet cable, is it plugged in?
Customer... oh *click*

--

I worked within ISP support for 4 years and know how stupid/clueless many people are!!

[mdsmedia]

I used to work for an ISP supervising the support team. The amount of people who did not know what OS they used was amazing.

--{snip}

I worked within ISP support for 4 years and know how stupid/clueless many people are!!And that includes some support people too.

When I was on dialup a few years ago (mind you I didn't know too much about my OS either but I could re-install it as necessary) I called my ISP because I couldn't connect to the number they'd given me, that had worked many times before. After asking me to look at a few settings and trying and retrying, I still couldn't get connected.

The solution I was given was to reinstall Windows 98. So I spent half the day reinstalling Windows. I tried to connect to the net. Still couldn't. So I called the ISP, spoke to a different "support" staff, who told me that that number was not used anymore. They gave me another number and I connected straight away.

[_simon_]

I agree with you, some "support staff" are useless. Suggesting a complete reinstall is a bit of a cop out if you ask me.

[ifokkema]

I agree with you, some "support staff" are useless. Suggesting a complete reinstall is a bit of a cop out if you ask me.

My girlfriend had a key suddenly malfunctioning on her Packard Bell laptop. She ran WinXP but the key didn't work when using the Ubuntu Live CD either (duh).
The techsupport insisted on a re-install. I told them that the key did not work on Linux either, so it just wasn't the OS. They just said "We don't support Linux". Then I just called back and got another guy on the phone. Told me to re-install as well. Just said I already did, and suddenly I was allowed to get it fixed under warranty.

[adam.tropics]

The whole 'why should I learn how if I can just get a man in' is a pretty sad sign of the times I think, That said support and service staff could sometimes try a little harder too.

The first time I bought a computer a fair few years ago, it represented a hefty student investment. Anyway, I got it home, and it seemed not to boot. Since it was new I rang up the store and they decided to send a man out to fix it. Next day there's a knock on the door. It was Bob. Now how did I know it was Bob? Simple, it was the same Bob who had been sent to fit my washing machine the week before! Apparrently, their 3 week course covered computers too. !!

Scary but true!

[solarwind]

Yeah, well, what can we do about it?

[egon spengler]

The whole 'why should I learn how if I can just get a man in' is a pretty sad sign of the times I think

Why? I have neither the time nor the inclination to clean my own windows and so I pay a window cleaner to do it for me. I see no problem in thie either.

And how far do you want to take it? Should we all make our own shoes? Pasteurise our own milk? Print our own newspapers?

[adam.tropics]

Why? I have neither the time nor the inclination to clean my own windows and so I pay a window cleaner to do it for me. I see no problem in thie either.

And how far do you want to take it? Should we all make our own shoes? Pasteurise our own milk? Print our own newspapers?

Yeah Ok, so the minute I clicked 'post' I thought something along these lines would come next!

I guess it's really just a personal opinion. But following on from your point, how far would you take it, what, you need someone to tie your laces, put the milk on your cereal, and read the paper to you?! No, of course not. Look, I am not suggesting every user should be able to rip the guts out of a computer and reassemble it blind folded, with one hand tied behind his/her back whilst jumping up and down on one leg!; I just think people should be ok with at least a slight learning curve.

[UbLnoy]

I worked with a guy once, who was insisting that I fax him an "original in
blue ink". I politely tried to tell him that I couldn't. He's yelling at me on the phone. (There may be fax machines now that print in colors, but I'd never heard of one at the time.) I finally had to yell back at him "Does your fax machine print in blue ink?!?!"

Then he changed his tune, "Could you please mail me an original in blue
ink?" :)

[blueturtl]

Computer Stupidities (http://rinkworks.com/stupid/)

For all the techies that want a day off and have a laugh...

Referring to people who cannot use computers as stupid isn't really correct since it has nothing to do with intelligence. Computers can be hard to use, especially since a lot of the software is written by people who are very well aware of how a computer system operates. They don't come to think that the users of the same software might not be. Learning is encouraged though, it's never bad to learn. However what we often fail to see is how much more simple things could be when we're used to doing them in a certain way.

Reminds me of when I thought using Windows was easy.

[egon spengler]

I guess it's really just a personal opinion. But following on from your point, how far would you take it, what, you need someone to tie your laces, put the milk on your cereal, and read the paper to you?! No, of course not.

I would prefer to read the newspaper myself but then again I do watch the news which basically amounts to someone reading me the news(paper). As far as paying someone to add milk to my cereal, most days I eat breakfast at either the Jamaican takeaway near my house or at the Turkish place near my work so yeah, basically I would and do pay for someone to prepare my morning meals because I have the luxury of enough money to pay for that service and so it saves me the effort of making something myself.

Paying someone to tie my shoes is not worth the expenditure, that's what all of this comes down to. "Getting a man in to do it for you" is not a modern developement, it's been going on for thousands of years now and I really can't see what's wrong with it. If you have not the time or motivation to do something then why not get someone else in to do it for you if you have the means to afford it? In fact if everyone learnt all skills themselves I would be out of a job, I'd bet a lot of us here would

[weasel fierce]

I worked within ISP support for 4 years and know how stupid/clueless many people are!!

I do customer service for a cellphone company, and I have plenty of such stories

[aysiu]

Since most people (unless they're CEOs of some huge corporation) do not pay someone else to use their computers for them--only to fix their computers--it would make sense that they learn how to use their own computers.

And most people don't know how to use a computer properly.

Someone brought up earlier the example of getting a cat and buying books to learn how to take care of it. I think that makes sense. If you don't learn how to take care of your cat, you can very well take it to the vet and have the vet clean up after your bad caring practices, just as you can take your computer to the Geek Squad every time you infest it with spyware... but why not just learn how to take care of it and then take it in for repairs only when absolutely necessary?

You should know own a computer if you don't know how to take care of it, just as you shoudn't own a cat if you don't know how to take care of it. Yes, you still take the cat to the vet even if you do know how to take care of it, but the treatments will most likely be routine vaccinations instead of surgery.

[solarwind]

Since most people (unless they're CEOs of some huge corporation) do not pay someone else to use their computers for them--only to fix their computers--it would make sense that they learn how to use their own computers.

And most people don't know how to use a computer properly.

Someone brought up earlier the example of getting a cat and buying books to learn how to take care of it. I think that makes sense. If you don't learn how to take care of your cat, you can very well take it to the vet and have the vet clean up after your bad caring practices, just as you can take your computer to the Geek Squad every time you infest it with spyware... but why not just learn how to take care of it and then take it in for repairs only when absolutely necessary?

You should know own a computer if you don't know how to take care of it, just as you shoudn't own a cat if you don't know how to take care of it. Yes, you still take the cat to the vet even if you do know how to take care of it, but the treatments will most likely be routine vaccinations instead of surgery.




That is so true. And you know what I absolutely HATE about BestsBuyz? They name their tech support "Geek Squad" They are basically saying that if you know something about computers, you are a "geek". Does that mean that we are all "geeks" [here at Ubuntu forums] or does it mean that the average Joe is a "cool idiot"?

Lol. Some people sicken me.

[aysiu]

Does that mean that we are all "geeks" [here at Ubuntu forums] or does it mean that the average Joe is a "cool idiot"? I think it's a little bit of both.

Another thing to add: if people want their computers to be appliances, computers should really be sold as appliances--kiosks that you can't change or modify or add onto or install new software onto. Few people change settings on their TVs or toaster ovens... except what's readily available through a few buttons (on/off, change channel, timer).

As long as computers are do-it-all machines that are expandable and changeable, then people should learn how to use them.

There are no books about how to tie your shoes, but there are plenty of books about how to use your computer. I'm not talking about programming books or how-to-build-your-own-PC books. I mean just using it. And a lot of people should read those books.

[egon spengler]

That is so true. And you know what I absolutely HATE about BestsBuyz? They name their tech support "Geek Squad" They are basically saying that if you know something about computers, you are a "geek". Does that mean that we are all "geeks" [here at Ubuntu forums] or does it mean that the average Joe is a "cool idiot"?

Lol. Some people sicken me.

Yep, if you are *that* interested in computers then you are at least somewhat of a geek, sorry. Hey it could be worse, you could be the kind of person that posts fictious stories on forums in an attempt to cultivate an air of superiority. Oh wait...

aysiu, of course in an ideal world it would be best if people knew how to better maintain the pc but right now people do not feel the motivation to do so and so they don't. I really can't understand why so many people here find it hard to fathom that not everyone will share the same interests. Most of you, to me, give off the air of that smug teenager who think's he's so much better than everyone else because he likes some obscure music group.

As far as the car/cat comparison it's a simple case of priorities. People place greater value on the wellbeing of their cat/car than they do their computer and so they invest time and energy into the wellbeing of those things. Until the average person's pc is as valuable to them as their cat is the average person will always be more likely to prioritise the wellbeing of their cat over the wellbeing of their pc. I don't think it's really that illogical. Now will there come a point where a pc is such a central point of people's lives that it starts to get treated with greater importance, I think undoubtedly there will. But we're not at that point yet

[kriding]

Where do I start?? So many points raised to respond to...

OK, to respond to the original post, I saw one example (probably an urban myth) where a guy was contacting tech support because their PC would not start, after a lengthy exchange of ideas, the customer was asked to check the cabling at the back, atwhich point he politly informed the tech support that he couldn't see because the building had suffered a power cut!...

On the side of dumb *** tech help, my local ISP has to take the trophy, I had connection problems and had tried all i knew at the time to try and resolve it, so I bit the bullet and rang them (I should just point out, I had recently installed XP Home about 6 months after its launch) anyway, this guy asks me for my OS, So I tell him..his response..."uhhhh..well if it was Win 2000 your problem would be...."..ok says I, but it's XP, not 2000..."yeah, but under win 200 you could just click..."

needless to say, that convo went nowhere!

As for end users with no clue, my dear old dad is a good one here, he is employed by the MoD as a civil servant, and uses windows 98 at work (the have yet to upgrade) however, his home PC needed replacing, so I custom built it for him and put windows XP on for him...he took one look at it and insisted that I installed Windows 97 as it didn't do what he wanted...

Me:"windows 97....It doesn't exist!"
Dad yes it does, we use it at work"
Me: "No dad, windows 97 has never existed anywhere"
Dad: "well it must have been written for the Army then"

After 10 minutes of arguing the toss, it turns out thatit was windows 98 with Office 97 installed....but, until this day, he still can't tell the difference between an OS and an Application, and still makes the same mistake, despite the "horse being shown the door"


As for people who pay for a service..why are they lazy? I am fully able to fix my car, but why would I when there are people who have the right equipment, more experience and the necessary resources to do the job..for example, I needed a CV boot replacing on my nearside wheel. For me to do it would require me to remove the wheel, brake disk, disconnect the ball join on the steering rack, remove the drive shaft, and replace the inner AND outer boots....This would mean I had to buy both CV boots, risk damaging parts on the steering/brake system and spilling gearbox oil everywhere, which I would have to then replace....the garage was able to replace the one boot, and not even remove the wheel, it took the mechanic 10 minutes as opposed to my 60+ minutes...

Likewise, I have to replace all my brake disks soon, problem is I need a special tool to do the job (since the new disks will outlive the car, it's an unecessary expense for me to buy the tool which i would use once) not to mention, if I break any of the breaklines, or calipers, It's me who has to spend extra replacing them..if they break them, they have to replace them at their expense, so with that example, it's a matter of practicality...it's more practical for me to employ a mchanic to do the more complicated jobs, likewise, it's practical for my dad to get me to fix his PC then to learn himself..all he wants is to use it.

[adam.tropics]

I would prefer to read the newspaper myself but then again I do watch the news which basically amounts to someone reading me the news(paper). As far as paying someone to add milk to my cereal, most days I eat breakfast at either the Jamaican takeaway near my house or at the Turkish place near my work so yeah, basically I would and do pay for someone to prepare my morning meals because I have the luxury of enough money to pay for that service and so it saves me the effort of making something myself.

Paying someone to tie my shoes is not worth the expenditure, that's what all of this comes down to. "Getting a man in to do it for you" is not a modern developement, it's been going on for thousands of years now and I really can't see what's wrong with it. If you have not the time or motivation to do something then why not get someone else in to do it for you if you have the means to afford it? In fact if everyone learnt all skills themselves I would be out of a job, I'd bet a lot of us here would

Ok fair enough, I am coming from the hobbyist end of things so perhaps that clouds my judgement a bit. You are right I think in that money is relevant. Money permitting I may well pay for these things too, but I'd prefer to have the confidence of knowing that when the money runs out I would still be able to get by that's all. Anyway, I will just agree to disagree! It does also occur to me that culture might be relevant as well. Back home in the Uk, people would certainly be more inclined to get a man in, whereas over here (North Australia) people would more than likely consider that just, skills withstanding, ridiculously lazy. There's much more of a 'shut up, figure it out, and just get it done' attitude here. Anyway, thanks for your point of view.

[Monamogolo]

Funny story...
Did it ever occur to any of you who laugh heartily at the "idiot" that your attitude just may cause people who seriously would like to learn, to hesitate using this forum to ask questions for fear of being considered idiots?

Good teachers know there are no stupid questions... but there are plenty of arrogant, insensitive know-it-alls.

Automated systems save a lot of time and expense, and I'd bet every one who laughed at the "idiot with the built in internet" use automated systems daily without fully understanding them.

Anybod starting with Linux, especially as their first OS, can't be expected to know every abbreviation and every folder in every catalogue that inhabits their hard drive.

right now I'd love to know how to get my Ubuntu to search for and link up with the wireless hookup to the net...yes, my "neigbour's" where I happent to be staying temporarily. I'm truly relieved that Windows does it automatically, and quite disappointed that Linux doesn't seem to. Call me an idiot, but what idiot that earns $300 an hour wants to waste his time on systems that will take a couple of days to figure out and set up.

[solarwind]

Funny story...
Did it ever occur to any of you who laugh heartily at the "idiot" that your attitude just may cause people who seriously would like to learn, to hesitate using this forum to ask questions for fear of being considered idiots?

Good teachers know there are no stupid questions... but there are plenty of arrogant, insensitive know-it-alls.

Automated systems save a lot of time and expense, and I'd bet every one who laughed at the "idiot with the built in internet" use automated systems daily without fully understanding them.

Anybod starting with Linux, especially as their first OS, can't be expected to know every abbreviation and every folder in every catalogue that inhabits their hard drive.





right now I'd love to know how to get my Ubuntu to search for and link up with the wireless hookup to the net...yes, my "neigbour's" where I happent to be staying temporarily. I'm truly relieved that Windows does it automatically, and quite disappointed that Linux doesn't seem to. Call me an idiot, but what idiot that earns $300 an hour wants to waste his time on systems that will take a couple of days to figure out and set up.

Lol, dude, well, obviously, if one is smart enough to know that there exists an "operating system" that runs in a computer, then one is smart enough to ask a question, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Also, no one will laugh at someone for asking a question. We are laughing at the moron who thought he knew everything and bought that laptop with "built in internet". Lol. And no, no one here will ever ridicule anyone who humbly asks a question.

Pardon any spelling mistakes.

[solarwind]

Also, Monamogolo, this is your first post here ever, so you obviously don't know how nice and considerate people are here. Observe first before you make an assumption, please.