At least we get a start button.

[Linuxratty]

Windows is trying to one up Ubuntu and I think they have succeeded.


After 17 years of trusty service, Microsoft has removed the Start button from the task bar

Sound familiar?


Yeah it's fine to make some changes or try new things, but to remove tried an true features and replaced them with some committee's idea of a better way is ridiculous, its like buying a car and finding out that the steering wheel has been replaced with 3 rubber knobs and one combined Gas/Break pedal.

http://www.osnews.com/comments/25581

[deonis]

I hope no one will decide to change this in near future in Linux ... I heard some guy proposing to remove terminal by default in Ubuntu ... Or people getting dumber or its me getting pickier. Sheldon Cooper from BBT on that issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUpZ7trmmls
and I cannot disagree with him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCmeeUtAxQo

[robsoles]

Thanks for the TBBT links deonis, Sheldon is tops and I enjoyed another 5 or so vids after those two before coming back to comment.


Not to be too snippy or anything but:

Microsoft gave us their start button and always reserved the right to take it away (check, not specified directly but easily indirectly covered, in their first EULA relating to Windows)

Canonical pass to us all sorts of things we could enjoy with the understanding that it is for us to pick and choose - our limited abilities to even recognise what we really want, or really need, are not Canonical's fault so;

New things need trying but old things shouldn't be cast aside too eagerly either.

[grahammechanical]

So, the start button has gone from being a stupid place to put the shut down link to being a tried and true feature. See what happens after 17 years? You get old.

When this feature was first introduced many computer journalists complained about having to click Start in order to Shut Down.

Still, they have to write about something. And finding fault must fit the type of person they are.

Regards.

[Gremlinzzz]

I hope no one will decide to change this in near future in Linux ... I heard some guy proposing to remove terminal by default in Ubuntu ... Or people getting dumber or its me getting pickier. Sheldon Cooper from BBT on that issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUpZ7trmmls
and I cannot disagree with him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCmeeUtAxQo

The reason to watch that show Penny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmuNFPQ4sp8&feature=related
:popcorn:

[t0p]

I hate start buttons. When I was first learning to use a Windows OS, I asked a classmate how to turn off the computer - did I just press the power switch and run for it or what? He explained to me: "To turn the computer off you gotta click the Start button and.." and the rest was drowned out by my brain crying "You WHAT?! You gotta click Start to STOP the machine? Noooo!!"

I'm running vanilla (ie Gnome) Lucid. Shutting it down is pretty intuitive: I click on the button that looks like a power putton then select "Shut Down". I mean, pressing "Start" to stop something? Still makes me chuckle.

[3rdalbum]

On computers with the "Fortres" security software installed, the only thing the Start button does is open the Shut Down window. That's twice as funny.

Does it matter that there's no longer a Start button, as long as Microsoft provides a way for you to find your programs?

[KiwiNZ]

Oh no not a change to an OS Gui, how will people cope, Windows will lose all unity

[JDShu]

The Windows GUI is horrible, mostly because of the start button. This is a step in the right direction.

[KiwiNZ]

The Windows GUI is horrible, mostly because of the start button. This is a step in the right direction.

the idea of having an icon to click on to open a menu system what were they thinking

[kaldor]

the idea of having an icon to click on to open a menu system what were they thinking

You really think that the Start button is intuitive?

Should also clarify that it's not the menu idea that I hate. It's the insane level of disorganization and lack of fluidness. There's too much of a "cram everything into this button" mindset with it.

[JDShu]

the idea of having an icon to click on to open a menu system what were they thinking

They were thinking from a 1995 mindset, when UI design was not a respected field in software and there was much less literature around.

[KiwiNZ]

They were thinking from a 1995 mindset, when UI design was not a respected field in software and there was much less literature around.

Of course there is nothing equivalent on other OS's is there ;)

[KiwiNZ]

You really think that the Start button is intuitive?

Should also clarify that it's not the menu idea that I hate. It's the insane level of disorganization and lack of fluidness. There's too much of a "cram everything into this button" mindset with it.

Don't have an issue with it.

[JDShu]

Of course there is nothing equivalent on other OS's is there ;)

I didn't say anything about other OS's, although in case you missed it, other DEs are also moving away from the supermenu paradigm. I think it's outdated, and it seems that all the big players agree.

[kaldor]

Of course there is nothing equivalent on other OS's is there ;)

For me, GNOME 2.x is the only UI that had a perfect menu. The default 3 categories and simple separation was a big reason I enjoyed Ubuntu so much from the start.

Even though I do prefer the newer desktops (Unity, GNOME Shell) I think their menus are just as bad/worse than the Start button. The clutter needs to change.

Just because other systems make a UI mistake doesn't make it less of a mess. Rethinking the Start button really needs to be done.

[KiwiNZ]

personally I prefer the OSX Lion structure

[KiwiNZ]

I didn't say anything about other OS's, although in case you missed it, other DEs are also moving away from the supermenu paradigm. I think it's outdated, and it seems that all the big players agree.

I haven't missed anything

[kaldor]

personally I prefer the OSX Lion structure

Which aspect? Launchpad or the dock stuff?

[lisati]

Start button? Is that the one with the picture of the apple on it? :D

[Copper Bezel]

I hate start buttons. When I was first learning to use a Windows OS, I asked a classmate how to turn off the computer - did I just press the power switch and run for it or what? He explained to me: "To turn the computer off you gotta click the Start button and.." and the rest was drowned out by my brain crying "You WHAT?! You gotta click Start to STOP the machine? Noooo!!"
Well, I think the fact that Shut Down / Log Out is under Start is a separate question from there being a Start menu at all. = )

This is an odd choice and I don't understand it, but it might be something that makes more sense in person. I mean, changing the way the menu functions is fine and well - I just don't understand removing the graphic element but keeping the functionality hidden in the corner.

Edit: Say what you will about the clutter, but the basic function of the Windows 7 Start Menu is really not bad. The foldery approach is a bit alien to me, but the search works, so I have no complaints.

[cariboo]

Well, I think the fact that Shut Down / Log Out is under Start is a separate question from there being a Start menu at all. = )

This is an odd choice and I don't understand it, but it might be something that makes more sense in person. I mean, changing the way the menu functions is fine and well - I just don't understand removing the graphic element but keeping the functionality hidden in the corner.

Edit: Say what you will about the clutter, but the basic function of the Windows 7 Start Menu is really not bad. The foldery approach is a bit alien to me, but the search works, so I have no complaints.

I agree, the search function is the best part of the Win 7 menu. :)

[Bodsda]

I have never understood why so many people complain about using the start menu to stop the machine... You have to start your car before you can stop it, so wheres the issue? If you really have a problem with the word on the button being 'start' then change it, I had it set to 'Stop' for some time, it made letting the broadband engineers use my PC, quite funny.

The only menu system I have ever seen that made me stop and go 'wow, thats good' was the Ubuntu implementation of Gnome 2.x

If MS are ditching the start menu, it's because they have a separate mechanism for accessing installed applications. Most likely a copy of their ridiculous Windows mobile big box tab swishy things

[HansKisaragi]

Windows 8 is all about the Metro Interface.

[whatthefunk]

I dont quite get this. So instead of a button, there is an unmarked area? And when you hover over this area, you get a brief menu which allows you to navigate to an entirely separate screen where you can choose which program to open?? How is this at all convenient?

[HansKisaragi]

I dont quite get this. So instead of a button, there is an unmarked area? And when you hover over this area, you get a brief menu which allows you to navigate to an entirely separate screen where you can choose which program to open?? How is this at all convenient?

This is the new menu. it shows up when you start windows 8.

very similar to the newest xbox 360 interface.

[whatthefunk]

I suppose its alright for a start screen, but if youre in the middle of one thing and want to open another program, do you have to return to the Menu screen? Sounds combersome...

[HansKisaragi]

Yeah i think thats how it is for Normal non-metro apps.

All Metro apps flows together.

Not a fan of this.. its seems to be made with touch screen in mind.

[kurt18947]

This is the new menu. it shows up when you start windows 8.

very similar to the newest xbox 360 interface.

That makes Unity look great! And I'm no Unity fan.

[stalkingwolf]

Ah yes memories of George Carlin,

1. Is it good if a vacuum really sucks?

2. Why is the third hand On the watch Called the second hand?

3. If a word is misspelled
In the dictionary,
How would we ever know?

4. If Webster wrote the first dictionary,
Where did he find the words?

5. Why do we say something is out of whack?
What is a whack?

6. Why does "slow down" and
"slow up" mean the same thing?

7. Why does "fat chance" and "slim chance"
Mean the same thing?

8. Why do "tug" boats push their barges?

9. Why do we sing
"Take me out to the ball game"
When we are already there?

10. Why are they called " stands"
When they are made for sitting?

11. Why is it called "after dark"
When it really is "after light"?

12. Doesn't "expecting the unexpected"
Make the unexpected expected?

13. Why are a "wise man" and
A "wise guy" opposites?

14. Why do "overlook" and "oversee"
Mean opposite things?

15. Why is "phonics"
Not spelled
The way it sounds?

16. If work is so terrific,
Why do they have to pay you to do it?

17. If all the world is a stage,
Where is the audience sitting?

18. If love is blind,
Why is lingerie so popular?

19. If you are cross-eyed
And have dyslexia,
Can you read all right?

20. Why is bra singular
And panties plural?

21. Why do you press harder
On the buttons of a remote control
When you know the batteries are dead?

22. Why do we put suits in garment bags
And garments in a suitcase?

23. How come abbreviated
Is such a long word?

24. Why do we wash bath towels?
Aren't we clean when we use them?

25. Why doesn't glue
Stick to the inside of the bottle?

26. Why do they call it a TV set
When you only have one?

27. Christmas
- What other time of the year
Do you sit in front of a dead tree
And eat candy out of your socks?

28. Why do we drive on a parkway
And park on a driveway?

[keithpeter]

Hello All

I can actually remember the introduction of Windows 95. The 'start' button was a new thing and even had a Rolling Stones song with the adverts.

I'm typing this on my little 1024 by 600 pixel netbook, where I use xfce with dmenu bound to the windows key (poor man's dash). The panel is mainly for notifications.

Windows 8: Say this quietly, but most people will be in the desktop mode for most of the time as MS Internet Explorer won't use any plugins in Metro mode (no Flash, no Citrix, Jave &c).

[HansKisaragi]

People use IE? :confused: thats fresh.,

Its pretty weird move from Microsoft.

[KiwiNZ]

Hello All

Windows 8: Say this quietly, but most people will be in the desktop mode for most of the time as MS Internet Explorer won't use any plugins in Metro mode (no Flash, no Citrix, Jave &c).

No Flash, now that's a bonus. None of that power sucking abomination.

[keithpeter]

No Flash, now that's a bonus. None of that power sucking abomination.

Yup, Microsoft are getting with the programme these days as they wish to continue selling software to younger people.

What I was on about was that if you want to do 'desktoppy' things you end up in Windows 8 desktop mode. I (have to) use Windows most work days because that is what the staff computers and classroom computers run. I suspect they will be booting straight into desktop mode simply because of the legacy business applications we use (on MSIE).

[Copper Bezel]

People use IE? :confused: thats fresh.,

Its pretty weird move from Microsoft.

Since Chrome and Firefox use GPL code and thus can't be admitted into the Windows store, and since Metro apps can only be installed from there, yes, it looks like folks really will be using it. (I can't wait to see them reject Opera for duplicating core functionality.)

[KiwiNZ]

Yup, Microsoft are getting with the programme these days as they wish to continue selling software to younger people.

What I was on about was that if you want to do 'desktoppy' things you end up in Windows 8 desktop mode. I (have to) use Windows most work days because that is what the staff computers and classroom computers run. I suspect they will be booting straight into desktop mode simply because of the legacy business applications we use (on MSIE).


After trying the Developer release of Windows 8 I have not made up my mind about it. It is very 'touch screen' centric and it irritated me. But as with, XP, Vista and 7 the final release will differ greatly to the early test releases.

[BrokenKingpin]

I like the the start menu. They should not touch it.