PDA

View Full Version : The menace of the upgrade cycle



degarb
December 28th, 2011, 08:12 PM
I have One point of frustration with this forum/distro.

Other than running windows and linux, the only reason to use linux in lieu of windows is that windows relentlessly forces you to upgrade part of the their business plan. (While there is an apparent cost consideration for the sys op in favor of linux; this is an illusion, since you will likely exceed $100 in lost time and replacing wireless cards/videocards/and printers. Neither is the advantage stability or lightness, since xp is as light and stable as linux (with comparable features). Isn't ease of use, obviously. Finally, not security, if you know about bufferzone, etc.)

Yet, my xp is been installed for 7 years (zero viruses, with no av), and after 2 years, my ubuntu is breaking down due to unsupported repos, and upgrading would likely brick the machine due to space on harddrive and wireless card support.

The current here on the forum is few who help, if you need simple clues to getting anything working on 9.10. To me an ideal OS is invisible to user. No fuss.

I am too old to fiddle with computers for weeks to do inane stuff that the programmers should have thought about. I did this in the 80s and 90s. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of stuff Ubuntu does right, even better than ms. Just not enough to even entice a single computer shop in my area to use Ubuntu over windows on new machines. I know one that tried it, but customers could not ugrade and reinstall all their sw, and unwilling to pay him to.

snowpine
December 28th, 2011, 08:29 PM
I don't disagree with your premise :) but... the forums are a community, a "two-way street" if you will. If your opinion is "the current here on the forum is few who help," then think about the help you are providing to others and "become the change you want to see in the world." :)

thatguruguy
December 28th, 2011, 08:35 PM
Just to clarify, are you still running 9.10?

degarb
December 28th, 2011, 08:36 PM
I don't disagree with your premise :) but... the forums are a community, a "two-way street" if you will. If your opinion is "the current here on the forum is few who help," then think about the help you are providing to others and "become the change you want to see in the world." :)


Thanks. The core philosophy of help is reason I chose Ubuntu. (Also, pragmatics of just making things work.)

degarb
December 28th, 2011, 08:49 PM
Just to clarify, are you still running 9.10?

Yes, 9.10. But this really isn't about my special case, more about the conundrum that linux has created. ( My case I do not have much free space, time, and wireless card took me 2 days to get working in dec 2009. I finally ditched all ubuntu solutions and got it running after finding windows wireless driver on cd plus gui and used my xp driver. The machine does all I need. With distro size creep, jumping to a new distro would kill the machine. I quite updating because apparently 200 megs isn't enough for simple updating. But I am finding desired deb files failing because dependencies are not in repos. Simple python dependencies are apperntly not in repo. )

Of course I asked about source.list but no one answered because I am using 9.10. I googled, but best guess change, is giving me same errors as before.

snowpine
December 28th, 2011, 08:53 PM
The "end of life" date of April 2011 was determined before 9.10 was ever released. You knew (or should have known) when you installed it that it would not be supported past that date.

If you don't like frequent updates you can use an LTS (long term support) release. If you don't like the fixed, time-based release cycle, then you can use a "rolling release" distro (like Arch). If you are out of storage then you can purchase a hard drive for pennies a gigabyte. :)

thatguruguy
December 28th, 2011, 08:58 PM
Yes, 9.10. But this really isn't about my special case, more about the conundrum that linux has created. ( My case I do not have much free space, time, and wireless card took me 2 days to get working in dec 2009. I finally ditched all ubuntu solutions and got it running after finding windows wireless driver on cd plus gui and used my xp driver. The machine does all I need. With distro size creep, jumping to a new distro would kill the machine. I quite updating because apparently 200 megs isn't enough for simple updating. But I am finding desired deb files failing because dependencies are not in repos. Simple python dependencies are apperntly not in repo. )

Of course I asked about source.list but no one answered because I am using 9.10. I googled, but best guess change, is giving me same errors as before.

Actually, this IS about your special case. You can't get support because you're using a release that isn't being supported any more. If you were on 10.04, you'd still be supported until 2013. The next LTS will be supported for 5 years. Most users here have figured that out, and have moved forward.

Your current complaint is akin to complaining that you can't get Windows 7 applications to run on Windows 3.1, and that you aren't getting support of 3.1 on Windows forums.

CharlesA
December 28th, 2011, 08:59 PM
Non-LTS releases are supported for 18 months. LTS releases are supported for 3 (and now 5 years, starting with 12.04).

If you don't want to upgrade realitively frequently, stick with a LTS release.



Of course I asked about source.list but no one answered because I am using 9.10. I googled, but best guess change, is giving me same errors as before.

You mean the thread here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1901032)?

The first reply answered your question.

If that didn't help, read here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades/Karmic

Old_Grey_Wolf
December 28th, 2011, 09:03 PM
I quite updating because apparently 200 megs isn't enough for simple updating.

If you only have 200 megs (megabytes disk space?) then my answer in your other thread isn't going to help you.

CharlesA
December 28th, 2011, 09:08 PM
If you only have 200 megs (megabytes disk space?) then my answer in your other thread isn't going to help you.
Your answer would have worked. ;)

Wonder why they have so little disk space tho.

Old_Grey_Wolf
December 28th, 2011, 09:16 PM
Your answer would have worked. ;)

Wonder why they have so little disk space tho.

The OP said, "Yet, my xp is been installed for 7 years". I'm guessing it is an old computer wiith a small (20 - 60 GB) hard disk.

CharlesA
December 28th, 2011, 09:25 PM
The OP said, "Yet, my xp is been installed for 7 years". I'm guessing it is an old computer wiith a small (20 - 60 GB) hard disk.
Could be. We'd need more info, in any case.

Old_Grey_Wolf
December 28th, 2011, 09:29 PM
Could be. We'd need more info, in any case.

:lolflag:

More info :confused: This is "The Community Cafe" not one of the support forums. The OP already has a thread in a support forum. ;)

thatguruguy
December 28th, 2011, 09:33 PM
... and, the OP has apparently logged off.

CharlesA
December 28th, 2011, 09:33 PM
:lolflag:

More info :confused: This is "The Community Cafe" not one of the support forums. The OP already has a thread in a support forum. ;)
Oh right.

Whoops!

:lolflag:

Old_Grey_Wolf
December 28th, 2011, 10:16 PM
Maybe this is a good time to explain this to people that may stumble upon this thread.

There is a release of Ubuntu every 6 months. They are supported for different periods of time. There are two life-cycles for Ubuntu releases.

1) There are releases that have odd year numbers or October release dates; such as, 8.10, 9.04, 9.10, 10.10, 11.4, and 11.10. These are only supported for 18 months after release. What that means is that only the ones from 10.10 forward are still supported. At the time of this post.

2) There are Long Term Support (LTS) releases that have even year numbers and April release dates; such as, 8.04, 10.04, and 12.04. These are supported for 3 years; however, starting with 12.04 they will get 5 years of support. What that means is that 10.04 is supported until 13.04 (April 2013) and 12.04 will be supported until 17.04 (April 2017). At the time of this post.

Ubuntu doesn't require you to upgrade every 6 months, nor does it require that you upgrade every 18 months. You have the choice to use the LTS releases. It is up to you to decide what your preferences are. The longer the support period, the older the supported version of application. For example, I still have 10.04 installed on some of my computers; however, I don't mind using GIMP 3.6.8 when 3.7.4 is available.

I hope this is helpful to someone.

degarb
December 29th, 2011, 01:30 AM
Your answer would have worked. ;)

Wonder why they have so little disk space tho.

Wow, to summarize my last 3 hours of my personal ubuntu 9.10 experience: Finally got an answer to needed repos, I finally got groovewalrus.deb to work. I got excited; then, I realized I couldn't mysteriously get synpatic or anything that needed sudo to run without doing it from terminal; I rebooted and could not get into my main user account. I logged in as root, had some conflicting free space from 0b free to 200 megs (I still don't understand). So I ran computer janitor and bleach bit and deleted all music and all old downloads. I was forced to change the main user password from 4 letters to 8 letters. I rebooted and got back into the user. Alas, my wireless applet was missing due to password change. I had to resetup the wireless connection and had to reboot to get the wireless applet to run, but now it requests the old password to start (creepy). I un-installed firefox to free more space, did an apt-get clean for good measure. I still am getting conflicting free space depending on where my computer is looking. Opera Next (only browser on system other than epiphany) looks like it keeps forgetting my settings, but hey, like sands through the hour glass, these are the days of our lives. People say upgrade the hardware, but when you are trying to get laptops for 5 people and have access to 3 old 600 mghz 500 meg ram and 6 gig drive era laptops, you do what you can do. Did I mention $100 buck barely buys a bag of groceries with my wife's preferred store anymore. Thanks, to all that made this possible.

degarb
December 29th, 2011, 01:47 AM
Though, I must say, I am happy to hear the next Ubuntu will be supported for 5 years. Though as you get older 5 years is like 1 year when I was 18.

Old_Grey_Wolf
December 29th, 2011, 02:03 AM
Though, I must say, I am happy to hear the next Ubuntu will be supported for 5 years. Though as you get older 5 years is like 1 year when I was 18.

Tell me about it, as I am 63 years old myself. :)

The OP's other post http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1901032&page=2 in order to put some of this into context.

3Miro
December 29th, 2011, 03:50 AM
I still don't understand why OP is still using 9.10, go for 10.04, the change is small and it will be supported much longer.

Every Ubuntu release is supported for 18 months, with the exception of the LTS releases. The LTS releases were 6.06, 8.04 and currently 10.04, those come with 3 years of support. The next LTS release would be 12.04 and will be supported for 5 years.

When people talk about XP, they always forget about Windows Longhorn. XP was not supposed to last as long as it did, the reason why it was left around for so long was because MS totally messed up Longhorn and decided not to release it at all. Hence we got Vista 5 years after XP. Look at the history: 95 -> 98 (3 years), -> Me + 2000 (2 years), 2002 XP (2 years), ...., Longhorn Fails, ...., 2007 Vista (5 years), 2009 Win7 (2 years). MS model more or less corresponds to the Ubuntu 2 year LTS model.

Scott Baker
December 29th, 2011, 07:35 AM
First off, BRAVO for continuing to run XP. As far as M/S is concerned, it's still one of the best M/S OS's. It's simple and it works. As to Ubuntu, don't give up. It works great on older machines. What you may want to consider though is a complete, fresh install of 10.04. There are quite a few noticeable changes, including easier wireless set-up. You'll want to do a fresh install to rid your machine of all the little hiccups that you'd have to deal with if you did this as an upgrade type install. Try it out, you should be pleasantly surprised. \\:D/