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jesuisbenjamin
December 13th, 2011, 01:40 PM
Hey guys,

I'm just curious about your opinion on Google and on the Googlification of Everything. Mail, media, search engine, operating systems: Google is everywhere it seems.

As most of you use open source software I imagine, I suppose you have an opinion about this. What is it? And how do you feel about security issues and breach of privacy?

Benjamin

BC59
December 13th, 2011, 01:53 PM
The problem is that we love it. I cannot use any other browser than Chrome and I cannot live a minute without my Gmail. About Google+ I'm not sure but I use it. Picasa is good as well. I use Google reader and I tried Google Chrome OS but I find it extremely simple. Is that something else of Google to use?

jesuisbenjamin
December 13th, 2011, 01:57 PM
The problem is that we love it.

Right! Right?

It's so annoying because they're quite good at what they do. Yet I try to be self-aware and not to give them too much power. I'm purposely not using Google +, and I think of moving blogging to Tumblr or something.

But at the same time they're really creepy. Can you imagine an internet monopolised by Google? :|

HappinessNow
December 13th, 2011, 02:01 PM
Right! Right?

It's so annoying because they're quite good at what they do. Yet I try to be self-aware and not to give them too much power. I'm purposely not using Google +, and I think of moving blogging to Tumblr or something.

But at the same time they're really creepy. Can you imagine an internet monopolised by Google? :|

Have you ever heard of Facebook? It's not owned by Google.

Why tumblr? why not soup.io?

jesuisbenjamin
December 13th, 2011, 02:04 PM
Have you ever heard of Facebook? It's not owned by Google.

Yes I use Facebook (not that I'm proud of it though :) )


Why tumblr? why not soup.io?
Complete randomness affected by large ignorance of available services.

haqking
December 13th, 2011, 02:08 PM
It is all choice and down to personal ID management.

I use gmail account but not for personal stuff nor do i store personal contact info with them.

I dont use social networking so google + is irrelvant.

Their search engine is second to none if you use it correctly.

They have tons of great apps which i use but do not encroach on my personal ID.

Google know nothing about me, or at least nothing i dont want them to know.

jesuisbenjamin
December 13th, 2011, 02:15 PM
It is all choice and down to personal ID management ... Google know nothing about me, or at least nothing i dont want them to know.

I wonder to what extent "hiding" from Google really is effective. Are not each of my searches associated with my IP or some other identifier, even if I don't provide name and address?

I know my email is searched through and I know the government of the country I live in has lists of people using certain terms in their emails etc. and that Google happily provides that data.

And is there any "safe" alternative? Is internet at all private?

haqking
December 13th, 2011, 02:23 PM
I wonder to what extent "hiding" from Google really is effective. Are not each of my searches associated with my IP or some other identifier, even if I don't provide name and address?

I know my email is searched through and I know the government of the country I live in has lists of people using certain terms in their emails etc. and that Google happily provides that data.

And is there any "safe" alternative? Is internet at all private?

Well if you choose to show your real IP.

However Google do not spend their time and money tracing every IP that uses its services and then contacting each ISP and taking them to court to get the records of their customers....LOL

jesuisbenjamin
December 13th, 2011, 02:32 PM
Well if you choose to show your real IP.

However Google do not spend their time and money tracing every IP that uses its services and then contacting each ISP and taking them to court to get the records of their customers....LOL

I obviously know too little on the technical side, I wouldn't know how to hide my IP at all.

On the other hand I know for a fact that the government of my country of residence is using ISP etc. to filter communications. That has been in force since the 9/11 stories. As a student in area studies, areas including countries like Pakistan etc., I have more than once used the key words used to parse communications.

I don't believe Google offers everything for free, they have a good strategy and their advertisement is not the only source of their revenue, I barely see these ads anyway.

Paqman
December 13th, 2011, 02:35 PM
Bring it on. Google offer an excellent range of services, and are a lot better at showing some respect to their users than some other companies of the same stature.

haqking
December 13th, 2011, 02:38 PM
I love google.

How else could we harvest valuable metadata from government agencies and the like ;-)

BlinkinCat
December 13th, 2011, 02:41 PM
I'm constantly using Googlubuntu as my signature probably indicates - :)

Mikeb85
December 13th, 2011, 02:52 PM
Hey guys,

I'm just curious about your opinion on Google and on the Googlification of Everything. Mail, media, search engine, operating systems: Google is everywhere it seems.

As most of you use open source software I imagine, I suppose you have an opinion about this. What is it? And how do you feel about security issues and breach of privacy?

Benjamin

I'd rather Google take over than Apple or Microsoft... Their search is the best by far, I enjoy using many of their services (Google earth is fantastic for instance), and most of their services are free for the end user... Android is now my new favourite OS too. Google also shows the end user more respect than Apple or Microsoft...

bobsageek
December 13th, 2011, 02:55 PM
While not perfect, all Google services offer portability and don't keep your data in any proprietary formats. It's easy to take your data and leave. Should that ever change, I'll balk, but for now they offer an excellent array of services for the right price.

Dragonbite
December 13th, 2011, 03:34 PM
Google is, for the cloud, like Microsoft was in the mid-90's (Windows 95, 98 + ) where there was competition, but Microsoft was more-or-less holding their own.

My use of Google increased when I got one of those Google chromebooks as part of the pilot program. I still use it, and Google has given me the ability to continue working with things even though I am at work and am not allowed to install anything.

I do home open source alternatives start increasing in availability. Much like Red Hat, SUSE and Canonical are offering commercial but open source solutions, I hope to find more cloud-based companies doing the same.

So far I use Gmail (for personal email), Google Docs, Picasa Web for images, Calendar/Contacts, Google Music (in part because they offer a Linux uploader, which Amazon does not) and Google+ somewhat.

BrokenKingpin
December 13th, 2011, 06:15 PM
I never was huge into the Google stuff other than searching and gmail. That changed a bit once I got my android phone, as syncing between my phone and google calendar and contacts is just so easy. I can also sync that same stuff to Thunderbird on my PC. If I change something on my phone or any one of my PCs, the data is automatically synced everywhere... it is pretty sweet.

I am however very conscious about the type of information I store in the Google "Cloud".

inobe
December 13th, 2011, 07:02 PM
Have you ever heard of Facebook?

meanwhile, back on topic.........


Googlification of Everything is Essentially a one stop shop, if google doesn't do it, someone else will.

bouncingwilf
December 13th, 2011, 07:05 PM
And is there any "safe" alternative? Is internet at all private?[/QUOTE]

Probably not but I use http://ixquick.com (http://ixquick.com/) and it seems to work OK ( I'm not so foolish as to think I'm keeping any secrets but at least it keeps most of my traffic away from Google)


Bouncingwilf

guyver_dio
December 14th, 2011, 12:50 AM
I like it, everything under one roof, easy to manage and everything can be integrated with one another. Their number one motto is 'Don't be evil', and I think they've lived up to that so far so I'm glad it's google and not some of the other major companies out there.

Companies like microsoft and apple seem totally business and money driven, get a foot in the door of every possible market and sue and backstab your way to the top. That's why all their products will be inferior because it's not what is important to them. Google don't seem to want to play that game and good for them.

Copper Bezel
December 14th, 2011, 01:11 AM
I'm cautiously dependent on Google's services. I use the Chrome browser, Google search (obviously,) and Gmail. I don't use Google Documents - Dropbox better suits my purposes - or +, but that's not out of distrust for their services.

They behave themselves better than any other tech company. They're also a more complete monopoly than Microsoft. They're a tentative exception to a very important rule. I'd support them, I want only the best for them, but I'd also really, really like them to have some competition and for users to have some kind of alternative.

Primefalcon
December 14th, 2011, 01:44 AM
What in blazes are you talking about Google everywhere? now lemme go check my gmail after I check my g+.... oops better check my Google calendar to see if I forgot anything.... oh dang lemme go watch a video to get away from Google... DAMM IT

Seriously I use most of their services myself (all the ones listed above plus reader, voice and more)... and to be honest it makes me nervous as hell, but damn it if Google don't make services that you'd be cutting your nose off if you don't use them.....

weasel fierce
December 14th, 2011, 02:44 AM
I like their services. I don't have a ton of illusions that my information is not being mined for ad revenue but I never assumed I had privacy on the internet.

I've been using Gmail for quite a while, and I am using the chat function (through Kopete currently) and google+ (recently). Chromium has been my main browser for a long time (though I like Rekonq a lot too, it's just still rather unstable), and I guess blogspot is owned by Google too?



Haven't used the calendar thing yet, since I didn't see a ton of use for it. I'm sure it's a great app, I just don't need to schedule that much stuff.

Dragonbite
December 14th, 2011, 03:14 AM
I'm cautiously dependent on Google's services. I use the Chrome browser, Google search (obviously,) and Gmail. I don't use Google Documents - Dropbox better suits my purposes - or +, but that's not out of distrust for their services.

They behave themselves better than any other tech company. They're also a more complete monopoly than Microsoft. They're a tentative exception to a very important rule. I'd support them, I want only the best for them, but I'd also really, really like them to have some competition and for users to have some kind of alternative.

I use Google docs because it doesn't require a local copy on my work computer, or specific hardware versions (.docx) or to do a "save-as" to a proprietary format (so Word can open an OpenOffice document without a plugin). Another aspect is the sharing, such as I see my wife updated our family Christmas Wish List and at one point we even were editing the same document at the same time.

What gives Google a leg-up to the compeition is not just their breadth of products, but their product integration as well. That I can receive a meeting agenda (for the computer club) in email, open and view it in Google docs without having to download it first, can save and make changes to it, and share it if I need to is very handy. Plus if I have pictures from our last meeting, I could include them as well or share them with people who can access only if they have the link.

I've been fooling around with Microsoft's offerings lately (my wife got a Windows 7 laptop I am setting up for her) and it is better than I originally thought so long as you have Office 2010!

With Office 2010 I can open a file from the SkyDrive or via the browser (which is lousy for editing). I can map a drive (like the S:) to the 25 GB SkyDrive just like a local server share (haven't managed it in Linux yet) and my @Live account connected to Outlook 2010 as seemless as an exchange server, pulling in my emails, contacts and calendar items swiftly and smoothly.

And that doesn't take into account there are a number of sites that I can either log in using my Google account, or is integrated with Google such as Picnik image editor which I can either edit an image and opt to save it to Picasa, or can open a file in Picasa and choose to edit it and save as a new or overwrite the original image file. Or I can use my Google account to access Zoho.

I am hopeful that Gnome's Online Accounts will start becoming useful soon, so I can see (and edit?) my Google Docs right in line with my local docs, my calendar pops up when I click on the clock, and emails in the message center without having to open Evolution or Thunderbird (both very heavy applications).

EDIT: I also wrote all this on my Google Chromebook Cr-48. I love this thing!

forrestcupp
December 14th, 2011, 03:37 PM
Google also shows the end user more respect than Apple or Microsoft...

That's because they're still in the phase of sucking us all in. When they get us all in their grip, things are going to change. :)

Android is the most used mobile OS. Have you ever noticed how they railroad you into using a Google and Gmail account for storing everything? I do it, too. It makes life a lot easier. ;)



With Office 2010 I can open a file from the SkyDrive or via the browser (which is lousy for editing). I can map a drive (like the S:) to the 25 GB SkyDrive just like a local server share (haven't managed it in Linux yet) and my @Live account connected to Outlook 2010 as seemless as an exchange server, pulling in my emails, contacts and calendar items swiftly and smoothly.
Dropbox is amazing for this type of thing. And for email, I just use IMAP in my client.

jesuisbenjamin
December 14th, 2011, 03:39 PM
That's because they're still in the phase of sucking us all in. When they get us all in their grip, things are going to change. :)


That's precisely my "concern".

haqking
December 14th, 2011, 03:41 PM
That's because they're still in the phase of sucking us all in. When they get us all in their grip, things are going to change. :)

Android is the most used mobile OS. Have you ever noticed how they railroad you into using a Google and Gmail account for storing everything? I do it, too. It makes life a lot easier. ;)


Dropbox is amazing for this type of thing. And for email, I just use IMAP in my client.

railroad ?

I dont store anything from my android phone on google servers, and the account i use solely so i can use the market is a throwaway gmail account for only that purpose.

There is no requirement to store anything.

jesuisbenjamin
December 14th, 2011, 03:55 PM
@haqking: which email provider do you use / recommand? Is it safer?

Dragonbite
December 14th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Dropbox is amazing for this type of thing. And for email, I just use IMAP in my client.

Dropbox (and Ubuntu One) is very different than Google Docs (and SkyDrive).

Google Docs is an external, or mapped, drive. The files are "out there" and access to the files accesses them "out there" and saves them "out there" unless you do "Save As...".

The fact that they are "out there" does give the advantage of
web servers protect data differently than backing up a local directory
accessible from multiple locations
multiple people can collaborate and/or view files simultaneously
in some cases, the internet access to it also provides an editor such as Google Docs or Office Online. Great for if you are using a friend's or a public computer like a library


Dropbox, and UbuntuOne, synchronizes files with a location that happens to be on the internet. Another way to think of it is a "copy" is stored online automatically and can be further copied to all of the systems you set up. People may have access to the online version, but the individual versions are still independent and not exposed.

There are a number of advantages to this set up as well:
access to the files while offline are (usually) synchronized once available so network is not required all of the time
dropbox allows systems to synchronize over the LAN instead of having to download files multiple times if multiple computers are all on the same local network, and this is often a much faster connection than to the internet as well
possible web interface for uploading through a browser, and/or re-arrangement of files.
online site may be able to provide roll-back capabilities to older version of files
you could set up a system associated with your account with a cron job that copies (backs-up) the contents of these files locally if you are afraid the service will become unavailable


I actually use both methods at this point.
Dropbox is my primary means of synchronizing between my Windows and Linux boxes and with the web interface if I find something I want to keep I can place it in my Dropbox and it will automatically sync when I turn on my computer(s) at home.

Meanwhile, for many documents I use Google Docs so I don't have to run through download/upload or synchronizing. When I close the browser (most) evidence of working on that file are likewise gone. Also if I need to provide editable access or access to people who may or may not have Dropbox installed.

The Google Doc route, though, is essential to the Chromebook concept because local apps are not installed (what they call "Apps" are usually glorified bookmarks).

vasa1
December 14th, 2011, 04:53 PM
I'm another happy user of anything Google.

haqking
December 14th, 2011, 05:02 PM
@haqking: which email provider do you use / recommand? Is it safer?

i have lots of accounts, i use gmail for throwaways such as online forums and for use with my phone.

I use mail, hushmail, gmx and a few others.

depends what i need it for.

Safer in what respect ? it is a networked world, nothing is 100% secure, all mail providers are pretty much the same in terms of privacy and security.

It is how you handle your own personal details which help mitigate privacy or security concerns not google or any other service.

Dragonbite
December 14th, 2011, 05:11 PM
HowToGeek has a good Infographic about Google and Memory. Makes me want to think twice about using Google, if I can remember to not like it :lolflag:

Google and Memory [Infographic] (http://www.howtogeek.com/100216/google-and-memory-infographic/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=141211)

aysiu
December 14th, 2011, 05:46 PM
I just wish Google put more thought into user interfaces and workflow. I love their services, though, and have used them even more extensively since getting into Android phones.

Frogs Hair
December 14th, 2011, 05:54 PM
I use the search engine because Google provides the best results of the many I have tried , but have no accounts with Google .

forrestcupp
December 14th, 2011, 06:02 PM
railroad ?

I dont store anything from my android phone on google servers, and the account i use solely so i can use the market is a throwaway gmail account for only that purpose.

There is no requirement to store anything.I never said it was a requirement. What I mean by "railroading" is that they steer you that direction and make it significantly harder to do things a different way so that people will just end up doing it the easy way.


Dropbox (and Ubuntu One) is very different than Google Docs (and SkyDrive).

...

Dropbox, and UbuntuOne, synchronizes files with a location that happens to be on the internet. Another way to think of it is a "copy" is stored online automatically and can be further copied to all of the systems you set up. People may have access to the online version, but the individual versions are still independent and not exposed.
Does Google Docs save as you type, or do you have to save your project? If you have to save your project, then you can't really simultaneously be working on it from different locations.

Dropbox immediately syncs with their server as soon as I save a file. I've even used it with software that is constantly saving in the background, and Dropbox is constantly syncing without me ever doing anything. I don't really see how that is any different, except that you also have a local copy, which means if you're already synced, you don't have to wait for it to download. I use Dropbox to collab my MS Office projects from different locations, and it works great. Files are small enough that it doesn't take any time at all to sync, and it's all automatic.

The reason I like Dropbox for collabs is because I'm not bound to a certain set of apps, and I can store any type of file I want. The thing I don't like about it is that it costs a lot to get more space than 2GB, unless you can refer a bunch of people.

haqking
December 14th, 2011, 06:08 PM
I never said it was a requirement. What I mean by "railroading" is that they steer you that direction and make it significantly harder to do things a different way so that people will just end up doing it the easy way.





ahh my bad, i read it like you thought it was forced.

no worries.

cheers ;-)

Paqman
December 14th, 2011, 06:30 PM
Does Google Docs save as you type, or do you have to save your project?

It saves as you go, especially since some of the recent upgrades. It's pretty snappy now.

NCLI
December 14th, 2011, 06:34 PM
What exactly are you afraid of?

forrestcupp
December 14th, 2011, 06:53 PM
It saves as you go, especially since some of the recent upgrades. It's pretty snappy now.
In that case, I can see that as a definite benefit. But since I personally wouldn't need that, I'm pretty satisfied with the versatility you get from using Dropbox. I can definitely see how that would be beneficial to some people, though.

Cavsfan
December 14th, 2011, 07:15 PM
I use google for most of my searches as they produce the best results. I also use it to spell check words occasionally.

I know they retain every bit of info you enter to search but, if you're searching how to make bombs, etc. you pretty much deserve what you get.

Google owns Youtube and I like the fact that they refuse to remove videos of police brutality taken by people peacefully protesting.

The same cannot be said of Yahoo and the other video websites.

I also have an android phone which requires a gmail account but, I don't use it for email.
The android phone also is based on the linux kernel. :) Which I really like.

Can you imagine those people that have windows based phones when it does a blue screen! LOL!

aysiu
December 14th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Does Google Docs save as you type, or do you have to save your project? If you have to save your project, then you can't really simultaneously be working on it from different locations. You can definitely simultaneously work on it from different locations, because I've used Google Docs with co-workers, and I could see in real-time stuff they were typing on a document as I was also typing in that same document.

Dragonbite
December 14th, 2011, 07:44 PM
Does Google Docs save as you type, or do you have to save your project?
It auto-saves as you go and you can watch as the other people are editing the files.

I was writing messages for her in the document where she could see it because you can see exactly where their cursor is. Plus there is the chat window on the side.

Google docs allows reverting to an older version, and I think dropbox allows the same thing.

With collaborating on documents, I prefer using Google Docs because then I don't have to worry about incompatibilities between Microsoft Office and the older OpenOffice on our Ubuntu 10.04 desktop and LibreOffice on the Fedora 14/openSUSE 12.1/Ubuntu 11.10 laptop (I won't even mention the Microsoft Office 2000 one...)

jesuisbenjamin
December 14th, 2011, 08:07 PM
I know they retain every bit of info you enter to search but, if you're searching how to make bombs, etc. you pretty much deserve what you get.

Google owns Youtube and I like the fact that they refuse to remove videos of police brutality taken by people peacefully protesting.


This all depends on the context. Suppose WW2 happened in the internet era, the French resistance then would probably have made use of internet to exchange information, with a maximum privacy.

What I'm trying to say is: if such a context were to occur again, how much power over information and privacy will have people given over to Google (and Google-like) by then? And what guarantees these companies will take the "right" stand?

Cavsfan
December 14th, 2011, 09:00 PM
This all depends on the context. Suppose WW2 happened in the internet era, the French resistance then would probably have made use of internet to exchange information, with a maximum privacy.

What I'm trying to say is: if such a context were to occur again, how much power over information and privacy will have people given over to Google (and Google-like) by then? And what guarantees these companies will take the "right" stand?

I once was very reluctant to use google and tried without success to find an alternate that even came close.
But, since I heard the police wanting Google to take down the police brutality videos, such as the Berkley, CA
students sitting peacefully while being pepper sprayed and Google flat down refused. I now have a different perspective of Google.
Many other videos of police brutality being used against very peaceful protesters were demanded to be taken down but, Google refused.
One was of an ex-marine who served in Iraq and Afghanistan who was standing still with a US flag in his hand and the police intentionally shot him in the head with a tear gas canister.
They fractured his skull and for a long time he could not even talk but, he is getting better now.
Anyway, I trust Google more than I trust our own government to do the right thing at the present time.

By doing this, I believe Google has proven that it has taken the "right" stand.

forrestcupp
December 15th, 2011, 03:39 AM
You can definitely simultaneously work on it from different locations, because I've used Google Docs with co-workers, and I could see in real-time stuff they were typing on a document as I was also typing in that same document.


It auto-saves as you go and you can watch as the other people are editing the files.

That's pretty wild. I haven't used Google Docs since they first came out with it. I'll have to check it out again to see how it has progressed.

ubuntu-freak
December 15th, 2011, 04:44 AM
I've recently cut back on my Google usage. I now use blekko for search and I've given up on Gmail. It's not really privacy that concerns me, but that Google are just so arrogant and ignore their users more than any other big company. Well, except for Apple maybe, but their customers are quite submissive really.

I'm not religiously cutting Google out of my life though, I'll still use YouTube without signing in and Google Earth, etc. I'll perhaps buy an Android smartphone pretty soon also.

LWard
December 15th, 2011, 05:34 AM
I have used GMail for quite some time now. I went over to Chrome from Firefox about a year ago. Now that I have Ubuntu I use Chromium. I find Google Docs and the Calendar very useful. I finally succeeded in getting my wife to use the docs and now I think she is afraid to save anything on our computer seeing that we had a recent hard drive failure and she lost of a things she worked pretty hard on. I also agree that the Android OS is great and loved it when I had a cell phone, but am also glad that I don't have a cell phone any longer. Now I actually am able to get away from the rest of the world when I'm not near a computer.

All in all I have and will continue to use all things Google until I find a good reason not to.

Copper Bezel
December 15th, 2011, 08:23 AM
Dragonbite: I haven't had a chance to get back to this, but I do understand that Google Docs does a hell of a lot of things that Dropbox doesn't, and for that matter, of course, the reverse is true - they're not equivalent services. For my purposes, it's better to have a local copy and a backup in the cloud in case one or the other isn't accessible for some reason, including server outages and so on. I also don't need to collaborate much, and generally on projects where it's useful to keep files in a number of filetypes all in one bucket but where I don't have to think about simultaneous editing.

So again, the "for my purposes" was the key bit, there. = )

HappinessNow
December 15th, 2011, 10:11 AM
Yes I use Facebook (not that I'm proud of it though :) )


Complete randomness affected by large ignorance of available services.

I wasn't promoting that you use Facebook btw just pointing out the obvious that Google does not own everything. In fact I closed my Facebook and Twitter accounts about a year ago.

Now with that said I have been using Google Chrome OS exclusively since early December 2010 when they sent me a free CR48, I now also use a Samsung Series 5 Chromebook. I have been using my Google Nexus One even longer...Google services I use regularly are Google Chrome OS, Google Android OS, Google Maps, Google Images, Google Search, Gmail,Google Calendar, Google Docs, Picasa, Picnik, Youtube, Google Music, Blogger, Google Voice, goo.gl URL Shortener, Google News, Google Chrome, Google plus, Google Checkout, Clock Chrome App by Google: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hoihofapbdnldlhecnhefifbcddgdkhm

etc., etc.

Using Google services saves me about $130 per month. ;-)

NCLI
December 15th, 2011, 11:43 AM
I've recently cut back on my Google usage. I now use blekko for search and I've given up on Gmail. It's not really privacy that concerns me, but that Google are just so arrogant and ignore their users more than any other big company. Well, except for Apple maybe, but their customers are quite submissive really.

I'm not religiously cutting Google out of my life though, I'll still use YouTube without signing in and Google Earth, etc. I'll perhaps buy an Android smartphone pretty soon also.

They ignore their users?? How so? I've always been very satisfied with the feedback process, most recently with Google+.

forrestcupp
December 15th, 2011, 12:55 PM
That's pretty wild. I haven't used Google Docs since they first came out with it. I'll have to check it out again to see how it has progressed.

I checked out Google Docs. It sure has come a long way since I tried it when it was first released. I still like MS Office much, much better, though. If there is only one cursor, I don't really understand how real time collaboration is useful. Presentations, maybe, but not actually collabing on a project.

Anyway, I can't believe they don't have Docs available for Android. That just doesn't make sense.

Paqman
December 15th, 2011, 01:18 PM
Anyway, I can't believe they don't have Docs available for Android. That just doesn't make sense.

See that button on your Android phone marked "browser"? That's the one for Docs ;)

forrestcupp
December 15th, 2011, 01:40 PM
See that button on your Android phone marked "browser"? That's the one for Docs ;)

I just saw a couple of minutes ago that you can do Docs on Android. :)

bobsageek
December 15th, 2011, 01:45 PM
I have a Docs app for both my handsets and my tablet, and it's gotten pretty decent.

As for the statement a couple post back, how does Google ignore it's users? I'd argue more change gets implemented via discussions in Google Groups than any other large organization, including stuff that recently happened with Chrome, Gmail, Reader (which I like) and the whole Chromebook effort is filled with active feedback. Do they pay attention to unfocused complaining and gnashing of teeth? No, but if you make a clear suggestion with possible solutions or even just constructive criticism I have found you will get serious attention from their community managers and devs.

Dragonbite
December 15th, 2011, 03:01 PM
I checked out Google Docs. It sure has come a long way since I tried it when it was first released. I still like MS Office much, much better, though. If there is only one cursor, I don't really understand how real time collaboration is useful.

I was able to type in my section while my wife was typing in hers. I only know this because they were both on the same screen so I would see the text she typed come up while I was busy typing in my section.

In a Document, that's pretty neat. With a spreadsheet and being able to real-time update numbers, that's pretty slick.

Admitting, I don't do a lot of collaboration, though just thinking about it on a project management setup it could be handy in people being able to update their status on their own.?... I dunno.

Then they are also in beta for an actual (SQL query-able?) tables! Be interesting to see how that turns out!

Now, if Google would open source it so you can set up your own Ubuntu Cloud server to run this, THAT would be awesome....

aysiu
December 15th, 2011, 04:07 PM
I just saw a couple of minutes ago that you can do Docs on Android. :)
There's an Android Google Docs app:
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.google.android.apps.docs&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5nb 29nbGUuYW5kcm9pZC5hcHBzLmRvY3MiXQ..

forrestcupp
December 15th, 2011, 09:39 PM
I was able to type in my section while my wife was typing in hers. I only know this because they were both on the same screen so I would see the text she typed come up while I was busy typing in my section.

I'll admit that is pretty cool. As someone who would never use that, I still like MS Office a lot better. There are too many features I use that aren't in Docs. It has gotten a lot better than it was, though.

Cavsfan
December 15th, 2011, 10:12 PM
My android phone has google maps, which is free while the other one that came with the phone is not. It has a very good GPS.
As a matter of fact, I can just speak into the phone and get perfect results. When I find the place I am looking for, there is a "street view" option
that is awesome. If you sort of know what the place looks like the street view cinches it.
Then you can add the phone number of the place to your contacts or choose to navigate to the place. I have 2GB per month data but, it connects
to my wireless router with a password (WPA/WPA2 PSK) and gets the exact same speed my PC gets - 10MB DL / 1 MB UL and does not use any data while at home.
I can watch a youtube video without any pause and the other day downloaded the Netflix app. and watched a 2 hour movie without any issues whatsoever.
I have never seen anything like it. Pure sweetness!


Oh, and I used google docs once and it was editable by a group of people all over the world.

Cavsfan
December 15th, 2011, 10:19 PM
I'll admit that is pretty cool. As someone who would never use that, I still like MS Office a lot better. There are too many features I use that aren't in Docs. It has gotten a lot better than it was, though.


I have used MS Office Pro forever but, this last time I got a new PC I opted for MS Works for a minute fraction of the price.
It works with and reads/saves excel spreadsheets and reads/saves MS word documents as well.
It also came with a powerpoint viewer. So, when someone emails me a PPT I can see it just like I had office.

LinuxFan999
December 15th, 2011, 10:59 PM
I like using Google's services, and I trust Google more than Microsoft. I use Google search, Google Chrome, YouTube, Android, and other Google products.

forrestcupp
December 16th, 2011, 12:09 AM
I have used MS Office Pro forever but, this last time I got a new PC I opted for MS Works for a minute fraction of the price.
It works with and reads/saves excel spreadsheets and reads/saves MS word documents as well.
It also came with a powerpoint viewer. So, when someone emails me a PPT I can see it just like I had office.

I've used Works before. It's not bad, but I think I'd rather use LibreOffice for free than Works.

ubuntu-freak
December 16th, 2011, 04:14 PM
They ignore their users?? How so? I've always been very satisfied with the feedback process, most recently with Google+.

Wasn't gonna reply here cos I don't want a long debate, but here goes:

The forced linking of YouTube and Gmail, it's unnecessary and was always aggressive.

Harassing users to supply their date of birth, after already having an account. Those who created an account before that info was mandatory were forced into supplying that info, post-account creation.

Google quietly store every DoB entered and if there's an error, either caused by the user or Google, or perhaps because an account was created for someone by someone else, that error can never be corrected. It's also likely that Google aren't allowed to secretly store and hide the DoB info under European law, but I'll have to look into that further. They're certainly not required to store that info under US law. Google is getting around this weirdness by not displaying a users age anywhere but on YouTube.

I don't like the Gmail requirement for Android Market. Some users have a Google account via a non-Gmail address, but that's not good enough for AM apparently.

Google never make deleted or grossly inactive usernames available again. They're running out of decent nicks.

I'm not tryin to preach or convert anyone against Google, as they're mostly good anyway--I just wanted to share my points of view and explain my earlier vague post.

haqking
December 16th, 2011, 04:19 PM
Wasn't gonna reply here cos I don't want a long debate, but here goes:

The forced linking of YouTube and Gmail, it's unnecessary and was always aggressive.

Harassing users to supply their date of birth, after already having an account. Those who created an account before that info was mandatory were forced into supplying that info, post-account creation.

Google quietly store every DoB entered and if there's an error, either caused by the user or Google, or perhaps because an account was created for someone by someone else, that error can never be corrected. It's also likely that Google aren't allowed to secretly store and hide the DoB info under European law, but I'll have to look into that further. They're certainly not required to store that info under US law. Google is getting around this weirdness by not displaying a users age anywhere but on YouTube.

I don't like the Gmail requirement for Android Market. Some users have a Google account via a non-Gmail address, but that's not good enough for AM apparently.

Google never make deleted or grossly inactive usernames available again. They're running out of decent nicks.

I'm not tryin to preach or convert anyone against Google, as they're mostly good anyway--I just wanted to share my points of view and explain my earlier vague post.


Imagine a world where you could enter any DOB you like and where you could use any gmail account you like to use with android market.

MBybee
December 16th, 2011, 04:26 PM
For me, I'm a big fan of seamless integration - or at least 'effectively' seamless.

I tried the others - Apple, MS, Yahoo, but nobody had anywhere near the workflow and integration.

G+ has certainly pushed me out of the google set, though. I was an avid Picasa user (it was one of their best services), but the G+ integration lately has removed the ability to simply add/remove/link to pics easily without G+. If anyone I knew used it, that wouldn't be so bad - but I largely share photos on photo forums and the like, or via IM. Therefore it is much easier to use Flickr.

I'd say that the 'googlification' is fine as long as it *works*.

ubuntu-freak
December 16th, 2011, 04:30 PM
Imagine a world where you could enter any DOB you like and where you could use any gmail account you like to use with android market.

Any Gmail account? Guess you meant any valid Google account. Ability to correct mistakes is always a nice feature too. Most companies let you. Plus honestly about the information they store on us would be nice.

haqking
December 16th, 2011, 04:33 PM
Any Gmail account? Guess you meant any valid Google account. Ability to correct mistakes is always a nice feature too. Most companies let you. Plus honestly about the information they store on us would be nice.

any gmail account which is valid of course.

i have like 30 or so, and no information about me, and my DOB is anywhere from 18 to 70 ;-)

Privacy and online ID is managed by the user not the service.

Cheers

Dragonbite
December 16th, 2011, 04:34 PM
For me, I'm a big fan of seamless integration - or at least 'effectively' seamless.

I tried the others - Apple, MS, Yahoo, but nobody had anywhere near the workflow and integration.

G+ has certainly pushed me out of the google set, though. I was an avid Picasa user (it was one of their best services), but the G+ integration lately has removed the ability to simply add/remove/link to pics easily without G+. If anyone I knew used it, that wouldn't be so bad - but I largely share photos on photo forums and the like, or via IM. Therefore it is much easier to use Flickr.

I'd say that the 'googlification' is fine as long as it *works*.

So far you can get into the "old fashioned" and familiar PicasaWeb interface with https://picasaweb.google.com/home (https://picasaweb.google.com/home), but I have had to hunt for this link, otherwise it is a pain to go through G+. Biggest thing I hate is trying to share the link to people who may or may not be on Google!

Right now I am listening to my uploaded Christmas music via Google music. I was using Amazon's Cloud Player but Google Music includes a Linux version of Music Manager (Amazon doesn't afaik). I have a bunch of CDs I don't listen to usually, but that is in part because it isn't available where I spend 8+ hours a day! So I'm looking to upload them so I can listen to them as I want while at work.

haqking
December 16th, 2011, 04:39 PM
Google never make deleted or grossly inactive usernames available again. They're running out of decent nicks.



oh and on this point, i had a gmail account a couple of years ago which i closed down, i then reused it the other day with same username and in no way linked to old account.

As with most services there is a timeframe on username reuse, i dont know the timeline for google but i guess it was 18 month or so between closing and reusing the username

MBybee
December 16th, 2011, 04:40 PM
So far you can get into the "old fashioned" and familiar PicasaWeb interface with https://picasaweb.google.com/home (https://picasaweb.google.com/home), but I have had to hunt for this link, otherwise it is a pain to go through G+. Biggest thing I hate is trying to share the link to people who may or may not be on Google!

Right now I am listening to my uploaded Christmas music via Google music. I was using Amazon's Cloud Player but Google Music includes a Linux version of Music Manager (Amazon doesn't afaik). I have a bunch of CDs I don't listen to usually, but that is in part because it isn't available where I spend 8+ hours a day! So I'm looking to upload them so I can listen to them as I want while at work.

Google Music is shaping up to be a really cool product - great support for Linux and (obviously) Android. Very finicky on network connections, though - I have had a lot of stop/start/stutter issues with it over wifi.

ubuntu-freak
December 16th, 2011, 04:50 PM
oh and on this point, i had a gmail account a couple of years ago which i closed down, i then reused it the other day with same username and in no way linked to old account.

As with most services there is a timeframe on username reuse, i dont know the timeline for google but i guess it was 18 month or so between closing and reusing the username

That's an interesting development. I'm glad they've changed their policy in that regard.

haqking
December 16th, 2011, 04:54 PM
That's an interesting development. I'm glad they've changed their policy in that regard.

well im not sure on their policy or timelines involved.

but you have to remember that if xyz@gmail.com closes account, it wont be available for a set time for many reasons.

xyz@gmail.com may still be subscribed to online banking statements or other secure services, it may be responsible for some violation of terms of service somewhere etc.

Google have to maintain old usernames for many reasons, how would you like an old username of yours to be used and then that person get some email meant for you somewhere along the line where systems were not updated.

See what i mean ?

oh and a tip: why use your real DOB or any real info unless it is required for something, i dont see any requirement with google for any real information anywhere, they dont know if you are lying ;-)

Cheers

Dragonbite
December 16th, 2011, 05:05 PM
Google Music is shaping up to be a really cool product - great support for Linux and (obviously) Android. Very finicky on network connections, though - I have had a lot of stop/start/stutter issues with it over wifi.

In the beginning, Amazon Cloud Player was better playing without hesitations and stops compared to Google Music.

Since then, I have not had any problems with Google which helped me decide on Google Music over Amazon.

DZ*
December 16th, 2011, 05:14 PM
Brothers, over starry sphere surely dwells the loving Google. O ye Google, I embrace ye.

If you look at web pages of many so called "professionals" you'll soon find complete history of employment, DoB, residence address, phone numbers, and if you look just a bit harder, their salary (which is supposed to be public info in many cases). As someone with all that info being public anyway, it would be pointless for me to try and hide anything of the kind from a search engine company.

ubuntu-freak
December 16th, 2011, 05:23 PM
well im not sure on their policy or timelines involved.

but you have to remember that if xyz@gmail.com closes account, it wont be available for a set time for many reasons.

xyz@gmail.com may still be subscribed to online banking statements or other secure services, it may be responsible for some violation of terms of service somewhere etc.

Google have to maintain old usernames for many reasons, how would you like an old username of yours to be used and then that person get some email meant for you somewhere along the line where systems were not updated.

See what i mean ?

oh and a tip: why use your real DOB or any real info unless it is required for something, i dont see any requirement with google for any real information anywhere, they dont know if you are lying ;-)

Cheers

Google stated previously that deleted usernames never become available for re-use, so they've obviously realised that policy was already causing problems and changed it.

Also, I've just noticed YouTube no longer displays the age of a user anymore, the same as Google+. Seems odd that they'd rather completely remove the ability than let users edit/correct the DoB info at least once. Why is it so valuable to them? False info won't help with ad revenue and targeting.

forrestcupp
December 16th, 2011, 07:49 PM
Wasn't gonna reply here cos I don't want a long debate, but here goes:

You listed a bunch of examples of why Google sucks, but didn't list any examples of how they ignore their users. You were replying to someone who said that they have always been satisfied with how Google has responded to their inquiries. The quality of their customer service is a different subject than the quality of their features.

ubuntu-freak
December 17th, 2011, 02:45 AM
You listed a bunch of examples of why Google sucks, but didn't list any examples of how they ignore their users. You were replying to someone who said that they have always been satisfied with how Google has responded to their inquiries. The quality of their customer service is a different subject than the quality of their features.

People have complained to Google about every point I raised, so your post makes no sense.

vasa1
December 17th, 2011, 03:39 AM
...
oh and a tip: why use your real DOB or any real info unless it is required for something, i dont see any requirement with google for any real information anywhere, they dont know if you are lying ;-)

Cheers

But then how can we complain that Google knows all about us? We need to share our private information in the first place so that we can complain again and again and again ...

Lucradia
December 17th, 2011, 10:28 AM
But then how can we complain that Google knows all about us? We need to share our private information in the first place so that we can complain again and again and again ...

Businesses require that information for archival purposes, in case a silly court case occurs and you're included within it for a settlement, etc.

I've finally embraced chrome on windows thanks to a person on CNET who commented about Windows 7 being able to change the properties of pinned taskbar items or shortcuts (Which will allow me to enable private browsing forever when I click it.)

CTRL+SHIFT+Right-Click, brb while I uninstall firefox, and never be able to use the homestarrunner all-in-one again, as Phillip will not re-code it ever for chrome.

forrestcupp
December 18th, 2011, 02:48 AM
People have complained to Google about every point I raised, so your post makes no sense.

But they do a good job at responding to those complaints. They may not change everything people complain about, but they do respond. So that means they don't ignore people.

inobe
December 18th, 2011, 05:14 AM
i still dream of my very own chrome book, i want to complete the circle.

smellyman
December 18th, 2011, 08:24 AM
I use google search and youtube.

other than that I stary away purposely. There are plenty of reasons to not put all your eggs inone basket and use other services (or really no services)

As Google's stranglehold tightens I worry about them having too much power.

They hold more info on us than governments.