Can I get some advice for writing a resume?

[Liiiim]

I'm a second year computer engineering student putting together a resume, hopefully to get a summer internship. If I list one of my "skills" as being "C programming", what do you all think employers will expect my level of proficiency in C to be?

On the one hand I don't want to set any unreasonable expectations (after all, I don't have all that much experience), but on the other hand I don't want to be too modest to the point where no one would ever hire me.

So, any thoughts?

[LowSky]

The will ask you during the interview. You are a student, they wont expect much at all actually. My company hires temps every year. All we expect is a certain level GPA, your job duties will be department gofer. As in Go for this, go for that. Expect a lot of doing nothing you think an internship is really about. the most work you might see is proof reading code or being told to look up funny things on reddit/youtube. I think the most important task we ever gave an intern was keeping notes during a meeting.

[JDShu]

The will ask you during the interview. You are a student, they wont expect much at all actually. My company hires temps every year. All we expect is a certain level GPA, your job duties will be department gofer. As in Go for this, go for that. Expect a lot of doing nothing you think an internship is really about. the most work you might see is proof reading code or being told to look up funny things on reddit/youtube. I think the most important task we ever gave an intern was keeping notes during a meeting.

Uhhh... that's actually illegal.

Edit: nevermind, it's illegal only if unpaid.

[lisati]

Uhhh... that's actually illegal.

I'm no lawyer, but suspect that details can vary from country to country.....

[JDShu]

I'm no lawyer, but suspect that details can vary from country to country.....

Theres been outrage in the US regarding unpaid internships that treat students as gofers and since I was responding to a poster from NY, I thought it was applicable. Of course, I forgot the caveat that if minimum wage is paid, all bets are off - it's just a normal job :)

More on topic @OP, make sure you know C well enough to answer basic questions. You don't necessarily need to know what a union data type is is but you should understand the basic control structures and types.. enough so that you can write a simple program in C. It's not hard to brush up - the wealth of open source projects out there gives you plenty of study material.

I should also add that right now, companies are *starving* for (good) developers. And the best way for them to get people is to get them while they're still in college before other companies snap them up. Have some confidence :D

[lisati]

Theres been outrage in the US regarding unpaid internships that treat students as gofers and since I was responding to a poster from NY, I thought it was applicable.

*blush*
Good call: my spidey senses were a bit off.....

[ve4cib]

Maybe it's just because I'm Canadian or because my school had a really good co-op program for computer science, but my experience with internship/co-op jobs was really, really good. They actually treated you like a real employee, with actual jobs. More than proof-reading code and fetching coffee. WAY more. One of my jobs was with the Department of National Defense as *the* programmer in the operational research department; the whole department was made up of mathematicians and statisticians, so they went out and hired a CS student from the university to write software for them. Pretty awesome job, really. But I digress.

For your resume what found useful in school was to divide your technical skills into three categories: basic knowledge (i.e. you know the very basics, and know where to look when you are out of your depth, but don't expect miracle code), course knowledge (i.e. you took a course or two on this, but haven't used it much in the "real world"), and practical (or advanced) knowledge (i.e. you have used this on your own time or in a previous job; you may not be an "expert" but you're more than competent).

This gives you the ability to qualify your skills a little bit better. For example, if you regularly write your own software at home in Python and PHP, but you've only dabbled in C and C++ for a course or two you'd say something like:

Basic knowledge of: Java, Assembly (i386, MIPS, ARM)
Course knowledge of: C, C++
Practical knowledge of: Python, PHP

Fill in the blanks as necessary.

Everyone has their own resume style. It takes a while to find one that works for you. If you want you can post a censored version of your resume on here once it's written so that you can get some feedback on that too.

[Paqman]

The will ask you during the interview.

This. A resume/CV is solely there to get you to the interview. Employers use it to screen out those who are totally unsuitable. You get the actual job from the interview, where you'll get a chance to discus and possibly demonstrate the depth of your skills.

Your level of experience will probably be fairly obvious from the other stuff on your CV. As a student they'll probably have a reasonable idea of your fluency and you'll only get to the interview stage if that's what they're looking for.

In short, be honest and don't sweat it. The main qualification for jobs at that level is enthusiasm.

Oh, and for lols, check out this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/10/your_cv/) and this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/17/connor_on_interviews/). Just to remind you that no matter how bad your CV or interview is, someone else is doing it worse ;)

[LowSky]

Speaking from experience of having internships at the company I worked for. We did pay actually pretty well above minimum wage. I'm not saying every department did this but in the IT department an intern would be spending more time on Reddit or YouTube than doing any busy work. Note most of these were summer interns, so you get maybe 3-4 months of use out of them. And when your company runs programs built from scratch and hardware that runs a Utility company you don't want some kid writing code or pulling wires when it needs to be up and running 24/7.

I will also note that the outrage is mostly from non-citizen students in the US on student-visas. Many do not go to school in the States and these students apply for jobs thinking they will get to see the cool parts of America like NYC or LA, but end up in Buffalo or Bakersfield instead. Then they get here expecting a job doing IT work and instead they are doing simple data entry or reception work for nothing but a small stipend and a bunk to sleep on.

I will say far too many students go into these jobs thinking its going to be great. Often it isn't. There don't realize they are the bottom of the totem poll. If your an IT major expect to do things the normal employees hate. We had kids capping Cat5, reorganize the part closet, do basic desktop support, basic trouble shooting, etc. No way were we going to hand the keys of some big project to some kid still in school. Heck we didn't give projects to guys there 2-3 years with master degrees.

This wasn't just an IT phenomenon. Interns for the Accounting department found themselves in the same boat. I'm not saying no one learned anything new but many were bored quite a good deal. Looking busy can be hard work. I cannot say that is the way it is everywhere, but i would say this should be what is expected. You will learn more practical uses than any class you will ever be in but your hands on experience will be no where close to a normal full-time employee.

I never had to do the internship. I worked my way through school and was able to apply that to my course load requirements. I'm actually glad I didn't have to work for a grade so to speak.

[F.G.]

hi Liiim,
I wouldn't worry about overselling yourself (in fact i don't think that's really possible in a CV). If you do know C, put it in, even if you arn't amazingly proficient at it. If you like Linux, you put that in too. any knowledge or interests you have in the field you're applying for you should put in.

then comes the hard part: keeping it short. mine is two pages, which i think is a good length.

i based my cv on this guy's http://www.gratisoft.us/todd/resume.html if you know (or don't mind learning Latex) it could be a good way to go.

i guess just avoid doing one like this one:
http://curriculumvitiate.wordpress.com/the-cv/
although it is a good read.

[polardude1983]

May want to check this out here

Resunate Is a Smart Automatic Resume Builder That Tailors Your Resume To the Job (http://lifehacker.com/5863724/resunate-is-a-smart-automatic-resume-builder-that-tailors-your-resume-to-the-job)

[Liiiim]

Thanks for some excellent advice guys :)

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

When companies hire interns, they are looking for future employees. They do not expect you to know that much as a college student. Knowing about the company and their products; then showing an interest in a carrier working with those products, will do a lot to get you hired. Just be honest about you skills.

Edit: Submit your resume to the company; however, if you know someone that works for the company give them your resume and ask them to forward it to the appropriate manager.

[Liiiim]

Hi all,

Finals are mostly done so I've had time to start working on this again - I think my resume is set, but not I have some questions about actually sending it to potential employers: Should I mail a physical copy of my resume and cover letter, or is email fine? If email is fine, I assume I would attach them as a PDF, but should I make them one file or attach them both separately?

Also, I've read some different things about just sending my resume out to as many companies as I can find. I've read that it's inappropriate, but I've also read that it's a good way of increasing my chances of getting an interview. Should I send my resume to every company I can find? Or only those that are advertising an available internship position?

And once again, thanks for all the advice!

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

...Should I mail a physical copy of my resume and cover letter, or is email fine? If email is fine, I assume I would attach them as a PDF, but should I make them one file or attach them both separately?

If you are applying for an advertised job opening, the company usually gives instructions for how to apply. It could be email, online form you fill out, or physical copy mailed to their address.

The company I work for accepts all three. Ironically, if the application is a physical copy it is scanned and sent to me in an email. :)

Considering you don't have a lot of experience, I would send the resume and cover letter as one file. Your cover letter my be what gets you hired. If you send it as one file then the cover letter along with the resume will get forwarded to the manager actually doing the hiring. Sometimes the Human Resources department only sends me the resume and not the cover letter.


Also, I've read some different things about just sending my resume out to as many companies as I can find. I've read that it's inappropriate, but I've also read that it's a good way of increasing my chances of getting an interview. Should I send my resume to every company I can find? Or only those that are advertising an available internship position?

Personally, if I get a resume and I have no job openings it just goes in the trash.

Maybe this will help you to decide what to do. Three months ago I was trying to fill four job openings. I got several resumes to read.
I got some that were generic; that is, applying for any job. I had to read through them highlighting the few relevant items for the jobs I wanted to fill. I got some that were specific to the job opening I had. Those were easy to evaluate. I got some real annoying ones with a full page of certifications, and most of them were outdated, not worth the paper they were printed on, or irrelevant to the job.

I must admit that I selected most of the hires from those that were in number 2 above.

Of the four people I hired, the best one so far had no experience. His resume was about 1/2 page. What I liked was his interest in learning new things, and his attitude of conquering what he didn't know. I gleaned that from his cover letter and confirmed it in an interview. So far, he has not disappointed me.

NOTE that this is still the best way to for me to find an employee. Having some personal knowledge of the person, either my own, or from someone I trust ...
Submit your resume to the company; however, if you know someone that works for the company give them your resume and ask them to forward it to the appropriate manager.

[djsephiroth]

If you're doing a resume blast, email is fine. Separate cover letter and resume, though combined is probably fine too. Don't include references. "References available upon request" is sufficient.

Do not send out your resume indiscriminately. If you want nothing in particular, you will get nothing in particular. If you send resumes to people who don't indicate that they want to look at them, you might simply be a bother.

Ideally you will know someone - your dad is friends with a guy there, an old college buddy is on the team, etc. - who can decrease the likelihood that you even need a resume. A resume is, in many instances, for people who are totally unknown variables. Don't be a sheet of paper when you can be a person. If you can skip straight to the interview, that is a huge step in the right direction.

Anything you can do to let the hiring party know you are not some random guy desperate for anything he can get == good. Post in their forums. Email someone on staff about something unrelated to your job search. Establish a relationship. Maybe they aren't hiring now, but when they are looking for new blood, guess what, they know who you are!

Personal anecdote: a friend of mine entered a contest to win a phone by porting a piece of software to said phone. He hung out on the company's IRC on a regular basis and got to know the people behind the contest. Guess who they brought on for an internship a few months later? And hired when they had a slot to fill? Point is, if you contribute to a project, you have a foot in the door. Not only do the people behind the project know you as a person and not a resume, but they will see that you can make meaningful contributions to things that align with their goals. Show how you can be useful, don't just say it. "Proficient in C", for example, doesn't give me nearly as much info as a link to your github or a web page listing previous projects.

[juancarlospaco]

This is what i did...

Make an HTML5 app that makes CV (http://jobs-5.appspot.com)
Make your CV on HTML5 and send it (tell them about how its done)
Go calm and confident, like a boss (getting a job its a tricky thing)

good luck :)

[Liiiim]

Alright, thanks so much for some really great advice. I hadn't realized quite how important the cover letter apparently is. I'll have to make sure all the ones I send out are tailored for that specific job, not just a generic "this is who I am, please hire me" kind of thing.

Thanks again, you've all been really helpful.