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View Full Version : [ubuntu] Deeply disappointed in 11.04 (Natty Narwhal)



hughh
November 26th, 2011, 10:27 PM
I loved my Ubuntu system. The 10.04 Lucid Lynx LTS release was quite reliable. Then lightning struck—literally—and I had to replace it. I got a blank AvaDirect custom laptop and loaded Ubuntu onto it. Unfortunately, 10.04 didn't support a number of my peripherals, including the numeric keypad, which I use all the time, and the display. Eventually I found that all my devices were supported under 11.04 Natty Narwhal, so I upgraded.

But my system kept crashing. Every few minutes. I finally figured out that Unity was responsible for most of the crashes. So I went back to the classic interface. Things are better but my system is still pretty unreliable and hangs sporadically: everything stops working, except I can still move the mouse pointer. I can't switch applications, I can't switch workspaces, I can't kill programs, I can't start new programs. My only alternative is to power the system off and on. Most of these hangs seem to be related to LibreOffice.

Cursory examination of reaction to 11.10 makes me leery of moving to that release. I'd rather deal with problem I know about rather than spend a lot of time discovering and learning how to work with new limitations.

Needless to say, I am deeply disappointed and after years of using Ubuntu for personal and professional purposes (as a self-employed contract computer programmer) and after having made many, many recommendations of Ubuntu to friends and colleagues, I am no longer comfortable making such recommendations. Ubuntu is just not ready for serious use.

OrangeCrate
November 26th, 2011, 10:50 PM
I loved my Ubuntu system. The 10.04 Lucid Lynx LTS release was quite reliable. Then lightning struck—literally—and I had to replace it. I got a blank AvaDirect custom laptop and loaded Ubuntu onto it. Unfortunately, 10.04 didn't support a number of my peripherals, including the numeric keypad, which I use all the time, and the display. Eventually I found that all my devices were supported under 11.04 Natty Narwhal, so I upgraded.

But my system kept crashing. Every few minutes. I finally figured out that Unity was responsible for most of the crashes. So I went back to the classic interface. Things are better but my system is still pretty unreliable and hangs sporadically: everything stops working, except I can still move the mouse pointer. I can't switch applications, I can't switch workspaces, I can't kill programs, I can't start new programs. My only alternative is to power the system off and on. Most of these hangs seem to be related to LibreOffice.

Cursory examination of reaction to 11.10 makes me leery of moving to that release. I'd rather deal with problem I know about rather than spend a lot of time discovering and learning how to work with new limitations.

Needless to say, I am deeply disappointed and after years of using Ubuntu for personal and professional purposes (as a self-employed contract computer programmer) and after having made many, many recommendations of Ubuntu to friends and colleagues, I am no longer comfortable making such recommendations. Ubuntu is just not ready for serious use.

Some people don't like the Unity desktop, and have been pretty vocal about it (personally, I like it) but, in my experience (having used 11.10 since it was a beta), the software stack is pretty solid. Why not give it a try, then you would know for sure if your hunch is correct.

hughh
November 26th, 2011, 11:05 PM
I did try the Unity interface. I probably would have liked it. But while I was using it, my system crashed frequently. Once I switched to the classic interface, most of the crashes went away. That's why I'm not using Unity, not because I don't like it.

darkod
November 26th, 2011, 11:10 PM
And you know for sure that there are no improvements in 11.10? Without trying, according to your first post?

Basher101
November 26th, 2011, 11:27 PM
How are you going to have actual opinion on something if you haven't tried it? You cannot say you hate cheeseburgers when you never ever ate one.

And you know for sure that there are no improvements in 11.10?
Best advise is pop in a Live CD/USB and see if unity works there @ OP

OrangeCrate
November 26th, 2011, 11:44 PM
I did try the Unity interface. I probably would have liked it. But while I was using it, my system crashed frequently. Once I switched to the classic interface, most of the crashes went away. That's why I'm not using Unity, not because I don't like it.

You misread my post. I mentioned Unity only because that's the root of many of the complaints you've seen recently on the forums. I also mentioned in my post that I had been using 11.10 since it was a beta, and the software stack has been quite solid in my opinion, and definitely worth a look, if you were having problems with 11.04, rather than just relying on what you've read here in the forums.

Done here, good luck.

bluexrider
November 26th, 2011, 11:47 PM
I had my fill of Unity also. Went to LinuxMint 11 Katya. Works out of the box.

I have HP network printers, All-in-ones, Scanners blah...blah.....everything was recognized and shared with Windows. Good OS for me.

BC59
November 26th, 2011, 11:53 PM
my system is still pretty unreliable and hangs sporadically.

Why don't you try a new fresh installation?

I had this problem several times. You are searching to find all the possible and impossible reasons for the crashes and finally you make a new and successful installation and everything is magically fixed.

tlcstat
November 27th, 2011, 12:03 AM
Greetings,
Natty is a development version as is Oneiric. The LTS is on the horizon. Won't be long. I've been with it since the Tandy 1000 with MSDOS 2 and everything has been development all the way. I made a nifty retirement off of all of this development. Hope it continues! So far Oneiric is great! I will switch to Precise as soon as the upgrade script is released.
tlcstat

CryptAck
November 27th, 2011, 12:09 AM
Cursory examination of reaction to 11.10 makes me leery of moving to that release. I'd rather deal with problem I know about rather than spend a lot of time discovering and learning how to work with new limitations.

Needless to say, I am deeply disappointed and after years of using Ubuntu for personal and professional purposes (as a self-employed contract computer programmer) and after having made many, many recommendations of Ubuntu to friends and colleagues, I am no longer comfortable making such recommendations. Ubuntu is just not ready for serious use.

You don't need to upgrade to the newest release, you could try a LiveCD and see if the problems persist.

I don't believe it is fair to make such an assertion. Per your original posting, you've been limited to one problematic PC which is far fewer than the average for a PC specialist. Operating Systems, just like any other piece of software, are not perfect. Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Ubuntu all have had releases that did not perform efficiently or effectively on certain platforms or hardware. To state that Ubuntu is not ready for serious use based off one unfortunate experience is unreasonable.

hughh
November 27th, 2011, 07:38 PM
Thanks, everyone, for all the comments and suggestions. I really do appreciate them.


You misread my post.
Yes, OrangeCrate, I did indeed. Your suggestion to give 11.10 a try is a good one and I'll take it. Once I get around to it, I'll post the results in this thread.


Best advise is pop in a Live CD/USB

You don't need to upgrade to the newest release, you could try a LiveCD and see if the problems persist.

Excellent suggestions; I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of it myself.


Natty is a development version as is Oneiric. The LTS is on the horizon. Perhaps I've misunderstood the purpose of the non-LTS releases. I always thought they were intended to be used as stable releases, just not supported long-term. If they're truly "development" rather than "production" versions then I'd be less willing to use them in my environment, which is more production than development.


Why don't you try a new fresh installation?

I had this problem several times. You are searching to find all the possible and impossible reasons for the crashes and finally you make a new and successful installation and everything is magically fixed.

Interesting thought, but it makes me nervous. I feel like this could lead to additional new problems, though I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's an unreasonable gut reaction.


I don't believe it is fair to make such an assertion. Per your original posting, you've been limited to one problematic PC which is far fewer than the average for a PC specialist. Operating Systems, just like any other piece of software, are not perfect. Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Ubuntu all have had releases that did not perform efficiently or effectively on certain platforms or hardware. To state that Ubuntu is not ready for serious use based off one unfortunate experience is unreasonable. I understand your point, CryptAck, and it's fair in the aggregate, but how can I as an individual personally recommend a product that I'm disappointed in? I can't, and to expect me to would be somewhat suprising, IMHO.

tlcstat
November 27th, 2011, 08:15 PM
Greetings,

Original by hughh

Perhaps I've misunderstood the purpose of the non-LTS releases. I always thought they were intended to be used as stable releases, just not supported long-term

Ubuntu releases a new version twice a year whether they are stable or not. Natty was the first version to use the Unity desktop greatly built over Gnome2. Oneiric continues the Unity development with less of the Gnome2 running underneath. Precise will be the LTS leaving Gnome 2 mostly behind and picking up some Gnome 3 features as well as what else is out there. There is no question that the Unity desktop is in full development and it will continue. "I hope".

Point is if you buy a computer from xyz.com running Linux or Windows or something else, that computer has been pre-engineered to run that OS. If you buy a computer from xyz.com with no OS installed and then install Ubuntu then "you" are the engineer! You took the responsibility for it to work properly. You chose the computer with it's integrated hardware. If it doesn't work it's your problem not Ubuntu's. Do a better job of engineering next time. There is plenty of hardware compatibility info available.

I personally built a few duds over the years and I never looked anywhere but at myself for the problem or the solution.
tlcstat

hughh
November 27th, 2011, 08:28 PM
If you buy a computer from xyz.com with no OS installed and then install Ubuntu then "you" are the engineer! You took the responsibility for it to work properly. You chose the computer with it's integrated hardware. If it doesn't work it's your problem not Ubuntu's. Do a better job of engineering next time. There is plenty of hardware compatibility info available.

Point taken. And thanks for the clarification about Ubuntu releases.

tlcstat
November 27th, 2011, 08:37 PM
Greetings,
You can start here! http://www.ubuntu.com/certification

tlcstat

Greetings,

Also here!

http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog

tlcstat

CryptAck
November 28th, 2011, 04:36 AM
I understand your point, CryptAck, and it's fair in the aggregate, but how can I as an individual personally recommend a product that I'm disappointed in? I can't, and to expect me to would be somewhat suprising, IMHO.

I would never expect a person to recommend a product they are disappointed in. Although, I do need to inquire, are you actually disappointed because of this particular situation--which maybe limited to a compatibility issue--or because of the overall design/implementation of the 11.04 release?

My point being, if I were to install Windows Home Premium on my HP Mini and attempt to run a game (e.g. Starcraft 2) it's reasonable, that from a performance standpoint, I'd be unhappy. Mainly because the operating system and application were not developed to run on such hardware efficiently. That is not to say that the application or operating system are "not ready for serious use".

On the flip side, if you are disappointed with the release due to other characteristics (e.g. unstable on "supported" hardware or Unity design, etc.), then I fully support your view on not recommending the release.