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View Full Version : Lenovo To Shun Linux



YourSurrogateGod
June 4th, 2006, 02:55 PM
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/06/06/04/0415221.shtml

Those new Dells look pretty good.

fuscia
June 4th, 2006, 03:30 PM
and to think i almost bought one...

shrimphead
June 4th, 2006, 03:43 PM
I new this was going to happen as soon as IBM sold off their thinkpad line.

I remember reading somewhere that Lenovo was a big MS sympathiser and thinking "well there goes the last decent thinkpad"

MetalMusicAddict
June 4th, 2006, 03:47 PM
I new this was going to happen as soon as IBM sold off their thinkpad line.

I remember reading somewhere that Lenovo was a big MS sympathiser and thinking "well there goes the last decent thinkpad"
Me to. Too bad.

YourSurrogateGod
June 4th, 2006, 04:36 PM
"well there goes the last decent thinkpad"
I take it that there are no replacements?

Kimm
June 4th, 2006, 05:01 PM
HP Supports Linux...

I've got a Toshiba Sattelite 5100-503 that works great!

dvarsam
June 4th, 2006, 05:49 PM
HP Supports Linux...

I've got a Toshiba Sattelite 5100-503 that works great!

I wouldn't call that support!

They just remain still at the moment, thinking where are things moving towards at the moment...

If HP really supported Linux, they would have created Linux drivers for every product they would bring in the market...

...cause: That's called SUPPORT!!!

YourSurrogateGod
June 4th, 2006, 05:52 PM
I wouldn't call that support!

They just remain still at the moment, thinking where are things moving towards at the moment...

If HP really supported Linux, they would have created Linux drivers for every product they would bring in the market...

...cause: That's called SUPPORT!!!
That's a pretty unrealistic demand, especially given the vast numbers of products that they make. A good compromise would be to output drivers for systems that are most prevalent.

gmc
June 4th, 2006, 05:59 PM
I don't know why everyone is getting upset about this, it's not as if they (or any of the other top manufacturers) were/are making it easy to get a laptop with linux in the first place. If you shop carefully (and really I'm not one to talk, see my first post in the "Acer Aspire 5672 (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=121125)" thread elsewhere in the forums, though I got lucky with Dapper :-) ) you can still get linux working on these beasts.

Lenovo will see the error of it's ways soon enough.

Gord

John.Michael.Kane
June 4th, 2006, 06:53 PM
You could always go oldschool, and buy a pre-Lenovo thinkpad. since most likely they will build these new machines with windows in mind.


just my thoughts...

tageiru
June 4th, 2006, 07:00 PM
Tageiru To Shun Lenovo

disturbed1
June 4th, 2006, 07:52 PM
HP Supports Linux...

I've got a Toshiba Sattelite 5100-503 that works great!

They are even selling Mandriva based notebooks in Latin America
http://news.com.com/HP+to+sell+Linux+PCs+across+Latin+America/2100-7344_3-6028325.html

Dell has similar plans.

qalimas
June 4th, 2006, 08:34 PM
I wouldn't call that support!

They just remain still at the moment, thinking where are things moving towards at the moment...

If HP really supported Linux, they would have created Linux drivers for every product they would bring in the market...

...cause: That's called SUPPORT!!!

My pavilion here has a native driver for everything, including wireless :D (Well, I haven't tested the modem... but who uses those now days ;))

shrimphead
June 4th, 2006, 08:36 PM
You could always go oldschool, and buy a pre-Lenovo thinkpad. since most likely they will build these new machines with windows in mind.


just my thoughts...


The pre-lenovo pads were lovely machines, my first ubuntu machine was an X21, and I've never seen a 700MHz P3 fly that fast :D

MetalMusicAddict
June 4th, 2006, 08:47 PM
The pre-lenovo pads were lovely machines, my first ubuntu machine was an X21, and I've never seen a 700MHz P3 fly that fast :D
I have a A21m I just bought used for the wife. :) Needs RAM but should be great for what she does.

John.Michael.Kane
June 4th, 2006, 08:53 PM
shrimphead I think that those who are ThinkPad fans should look for the older models they would have a better chance of getting quilty built machines, and machines with hardware that supports linux. i really think that Lenovo will use hardware that has no linux compaitablity. however this is just a guess.

prizrak
June 4th, 2006, 09:01 PM
I was actually thinking of getting a ThinkPad, as I hate HP, Dell and Toshiba (tried them all they all suck). Lenovo has been building computers for IBM for a while now so hopefully the components will still remain the same and work with Linux. I don't care too much about official support but I think they will lose corporate customers that way.

Compucore
June 4th, 2006, 09:06 PM
This is what I am doing over here for myself even if it is a used Laptoip. The thing the PO's here and this is not against the Manufacturers of the computer lines like ACER, ECS, Toshiba as examples. Its MS that has their hands in the MAnufacturers pockets of installing their OS only. (Trying not to sound like a Capital One Commercial here.) That's what getting to me personally the typical user wherther its me, you, or the average Joe blow off the street should be given a choice of which OS should be put on the machine that we are getting. ANd I know that joe blow may not understand Linux of ubuntu version of linux. But still give the choice instead of having us still dish out that $114 that is still there for just the OS. (The $114 dollar number I have check was through distribution level here where I live that is being sold to the mom and pop stores. So just a little heads up it is a little more expensive in the stores on the store shelves.) Where we could use that to get extra memory or add a little something to what we want you know what I mean.

Compucore


You could always go oldschool, and buy a pre-Lenovo thinkpad. since most likely they will build these new machines with windows in mind.


just my thoughts...

curuxz
June 4th, 2006, 09:11 PM
lots of us are business users, if you want them to change their ways bombard them with requests for quotes on bulk laptops preinstalled with nix. there are only so many times they can say no before they realise whats going on, Their pipeline will show its a stupid move.

John.Michael.Kane
June 4th, 2006, 09:19 PM
curuxz that may work, however most here have said that microsoft has a hold on the oem's like Lenovo/Gateway/HP-Compaq. I think this is why endusers only see a few of these companies machines offered with linux as an option if at all. I'm not saying it can't be done but the comanies would have to shun microsoft to some extent, and i'm not sure they would be willing to do this. I guess this why there is now a market for laptops that are barebone's or the oldschool stuff that has linux support.

John.Michael.Kane
June 4th, 2006, 09:20 PM
Double Post.

curuxz
June 4th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Im intrested to see their response, if any. I have emailed them asking for prices for 100units of their R laptop with 1gig aditional memory and ubuntu 6 preloaded (for quality reasons)

Lets see what happens, maybe they will come up with some windows is better crap then we can move from there.

I know microsuck will aways try and screw the little guy with stuff like this its why they can not be allowed to keep doing it.

jdong
June 4th, 2006, 09:53 PM
Wow, that's really depressing. Thinkpads were one of the most recommended brands of laptops for Linux compatibility.

However, not all hope is lost. There will always be customizers that take Linux-friendly Thinkpad configurations and sell it with Linux instead of Windows. Also, just because the manufacturer doesn't support Linux doesn't mean that the computer won't run Linux at all. In the case of Lenovo, it doesn't seem all that bad for Linux compatibility. They use Intel chips, and if Intel is good at one thing that's standardization (another would be Linux support). Generally, a Centrino is a Centrino is a Centrino... whether HP makes it or Dell makes it really isn't a big deal. Most of the hardware is identical.


However, I will say that I will not buy a Lenovo product until they change their stand on Linux. I will not give money to a company who thinks this way.

5-HT
June 4th, 2006, 09:56 PM
Tageiru To Shun Lenovo
:)

Rikostan
June 4th, 2006, 10:06 PM
This is an odd stance considering this just came out...
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2006/06/03/2003311446

"Government says all new PCs must be Linux-friendly
Saturday, Jun 03, 2006,Page 1

The government-run Central Trust of China has mandated for the first time that all desktop computers purchased from now on must be Linux-compatible, demonstrating the government's desire to widen the nation's usage of open source software."

NeoChaosX
June 4th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Rikostan: That just means the Chinese demands that the laptop's hardware have to be Linux compatible. Lenovo's announcement is that they won't ship Linux with their PCs, but their hardware has to be compatible with Linux anyway. They're two completely different things.

John.Michael.Kane
June 4th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Rikostan so they will make Linux-compatible machines for china. however this does not mean it has to carry over to the US or other countries if theres no mandate for it. unless theres a demand or it is mandated that computers be linux/windows compatible in the US then the companies will not do it. just my thoughts.

jdong
June 4th, 2006, 10:16 PM
The Chinese government doesn't necessarily purchase from Lenovo... and they may have different models for China than their US market.

Rikostan
June 4th, 2006, 10:19 PM
I understand that supporting linux and being linux compatible are two very different stances. I just find it odd that the government is saying they want to support opensource software on one hand and probably the biggest computer maker in the county (just a guess there) is going away from supporting Linux.

jdong
June 4th, 2006, 10:24 PM
I just find it odd that the government is saying they want to support opensource software on one hand and probably the biggest computer maker in the county (just a guess there) is going away from supporting Linux.

Lenovo is indeed the largest chinese computer maker. However, I'd be cautious about extending the claim about Linux support that far... I'd be willing to say it's much more a USA thing than a China thing.

Rikostan
June 4th, 2006, 10:33 PM
Lenovo is indeed the largest chinese computer maker. However, I'd be cautious about extending the claim about Linux support that far... I'd be willing to say it's much more a USA thing than a China thing.


From the original article.
"The Raleigh, N.C.-based company is clearly positioning itself as an exclusive partner of Microsoft, several weeks after the companies announced they were "reaffirming" global market development and cooperation agreements.


We will not have models available for Linux, and we do not have custom order, either," said Frank Kardonski, Lenovo's worldwide product manager for Lenovo 3000 offerings. "What you see is what you get. And at this point, it's Windows."

When I saw "worldwide product manager" along with the "global market development" line I took it to mean worldwide.
Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong though!

jdong
June 4th, 2006, 10:36 PM
That's for the Lenovo 3000 series, right? That's always been Lenovo's own line... I don't know how thinkpads will be affected (i.e. as long as they aren't planning a radical hardware shake-up, Linux support will continue to be fine)

Rikostan
June 4th, 2006, 10:40 PM
LOL again from the article...
" Computer maker Lenovo will not install or support the Linux operating system on any of its PCs, including ThinkPads and a series of new notebooks, the company said this week."

jdong
June 4th, 2006, 10:45 PM
I know, but it wasn't exactly all IBM's proactive efforts to write Linux drivers for their mangled ACPI that made Thinkpads so great for Linux ;)

The thinkpads already have great Linux support because there are linux communities with drivers for much of the base system... The changes from generation to generation are icing on the cake. Unless Lenovo purposely changes the hardware side on the Thinkpads radically, there's "no big deal" for Thinkpad Linux users... Thinkpads never had much officially in the way of Linux bundling or tech support anyway ;)

Rikostan
June 4th, 2006, 10:47 PM
Ahhh gotcha now.

John.Michael.Kane
June 4th, 2006, 10:52 PM
jdong thats what i was thinking Lenovo would do is change to using hardware with no known linux support or atleast make it a pain to get working under linux, however the same hardware would work with microsoft's OS.

curuxz
June 4th, 2006, 10:55 PM
I recon it wont change a thing for the tech savy and is mainly a political show of loyality to M$, tho I still think deals like this should be banned under anti-trust and abuse of monoply laws

jdong
June 4th, 2006, 11:10 PM
jdong thats what i was thinking Lenovo would do is change to using hardware with no known linux support or atleast make it a pain to get working under linux, however the same hardware would work with microsoft's OS.
Hmm, I've yet to see any documented case of this happening, except maybe Microsoft's introduction of "Smart Batteries".

As I've mentioned before, Intel Centrino has a pretty stringent set of definitions that virtually standardize Centrinos across the board (no pun intended?)

John.Michael.Kane
June 4th, 2006, 11:13 PM
jdong It was just a thought. however i see your point.

jdong
June 4th, 2006, 11:17 PM
jdong It was just a thought. however i see your point.

It's a perfectly valid fear and Lenovo's statements in that article are definitely less than promising for their Linux friendliness... But I'm just trying to show both sides of the argument here, not trying to cause you grief in every thread I respond to ;)

We seem to get caught in these situations a bit :) No hard feelings, ok?

prizrak
June 4th, 2006, 11:22 PM
If the hardware remains fully compatible it's all good. The biggest issue is not Centrino (which as have been noted is very standartized), it is the ACPI. My Toshiba supports Ubuntu very well (aside from it being a complete piece of ****, the laptop not Ubuntu) the ACPI is still a bit screwy. For instance when computer goes of hibernate the backlight on the monitor is off (the picture is still there tho) and the battery monitor doesn't change power source if I had it plugged in while hibernated and unplugged when started it will show it as plugged in. Those are fairly small issues but annoying nonetheless and the latter is pretty bad for power management as it will not go into power saving mode.

Those are the issues I'm concerned with when it comes to Lenovo's announcement. ThinkPad's are huge in the business world and if the manufacturer makes them Linux incompatible it will be another reason for companies to not switch.

John.Michael.Kane
June 4th, 2006, 11:23 PM
jdong no hard feelings at all.

prizrak ACPI is kinda picky, however support has come along not as fast as some would like but it's getting there.

Sidenote: I wonder how many other compines will take the same approach that Lenovo is?

benplaut
June 4th, 2006, 11:56 PM
toshibas just got a whole lot prettier...

for now, though, i'll stick with my T40

prizrak
June 5th, 2006, 04:20 AM
jdong no hard feelings at all.

prizrak ACPI is kinda picky, however support has come along not as fast as some would like but it's getting there.

Sidenote: I wonder how many other compines will take the same approach that Lenovo is?
Oh I know ACPI is difficult since every OEM out there wants their own implementation. I think Linux ACPI support is EXCELLENT, my system hibernates and goes to stand by and the backlight is controlled either automatically or by using the function keys. The quirks I mentioned are hardly major so it's alright. I'm just concerned that Lenovo might break the current implementation.

ComplexNumber
June 6th, 2006, 01:47 AM
apparently, they've now denied shunning linux. click (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,39020351,39273092,00.htm)

RAV TUX
June 6th, 2006, 02:08 AM
Just buy from a company that is Linux Friendly like ASUS:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=189693

YourSurrogateGod
June 6th, 2006, 02:26 AM
Just buy from a company that is Linux Friendly like ASUS:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=189693
They make some sweet-looking laptops. A friend of mine once bought this small little lappy, nice stuff, really light.

RAV TUX
June 6th, 2006, 02:29 AM
They make some sweet-looking laptops. A friend of mine once bought this small little lappy, nice stuff, really light.
That is good to hear because I am seriously considering buying one for my wife.

Did your friend load Ubuntu on it?

YourSurrogateGod
June 6th, 2006, 02:35 AM
Did your friend load Ubuntu on it?
No, I think he installed Mandrake, I don't remember. It was some time ago (over a year.)

drizek
June 6th, 2006, 03:19 AM
That is good to here because I am seriously considering buying one for my wife.

Did your friend load Ubuntu on it?

Asus makes great laptops, but they are not a linux friendly company. Dont buy it for the wrong reaosns.

Anyway, im glad lenovo denied it. I just bought an old IBM thinkpad a few days ago and it is really great, so ive already decided taht my next purchase will be a thinkpad as well.

jimrz
June 6th, 2006, 04:05 AM
apparently, they've now denied shunning linux. click (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,39020351,39273092,00.htm)

Sounds like it might turn out to be "just a bunch of talk" to keep M$ happy. As a long time die-hard TP user, I certainly hope so. I any case I'm glad of two things:

1) pretty sure my beloved IBM T42 has plenty of legs left to allow time to see where this really goes (hell, my old 600x is still chugging along nicely)

2) it does not seems to make any sense at all for them to design / manufacture /support two differnt lines, one for China linux compatible (suggestions, never mind directives, from Taipei are never to taken lightly) and another made to be linux incompatible for the rest of the world.

briancurtin
June 6th, 2006, 04:43 AM
I wouldn't call that support!

They just remain still at the moment, thinking where are things moving towards at the moment...

If HP really supported Linux, they would have created Linux drivers for every product they would bring in the market...

...cause: That's called SUPPORT!!!
well that is just ridiculous. if thats what you call support, then i dont think anyone supports anything. lets just say that you think Dell has the best support ever (for sake of an example). the dell support people will try to say that because you had a fever on december 13th, that is why your computer doesnt work, and its your fault. nobody "supports" anything by your standards. everyones looking for a way to make money, and they dont want to spend money by paying their higher level support people. if they can get you to believe that your dog having fleas is the reason your hard drive died, then they'll do that and not support it
(yes, i know the examples were ridiculous. sorry, its all i could think of)

i would say that HP does support linux, and, well yeah they do.

briancurtin
June 6th, 2006, 04:46 AM
You could always go oldschool, and buy a pre-Lenovo thinkpad. since most likely they will build these new machines with windows in mind.


just my thoughts...
thats how basically every computer is built though...

prizrak
June 6th, 2006, 05:15 AM
To thos offering ASUS laptops as a solution. They are extremely difficult to get in the US and when I was looking at them they didn't have a very good line as far as specs go. No GeForce Go no ATI Mobile, nothing (not on the non gaming 5 minute of battery power ones). I want wobbly windows damnit!

drizek
June 6th, 2006, 05:40 AM
get the asus z70v from c9tech.com

prizrak
June 6th, 2006, 06:47 AM
get the asus z70v from c9tech.com
And of course it's a widescreen... So far ThinkPad is the only laptop I found to be fairly decent on specs, NOT have a widescreen and still be pretty portable. (I can't remember the model name).
All other manufacturers either have desktop replacements (such as the one you pointed me to) or ultra portables that have some integrated intel video that CAN run GL accelerated desktop but does it very slowly and requires a 30 min guide along with some random repos installed to get working.

drizek
June 6th, 2006, 06:53 AM
Whats wrong with a wide lcd?

vinodis
June 6th, 2006, 10:44 AM
oh.. i thought Lenovo is chinese and loves Linux generally. But nothing stops formatting hdd and installing Ubuntu. Will they sell blank laptops?.

jdong
June 6th, 2006, 01:33 PM
Don't confuse producing computers that work with Linux as being a Linux-friendly vendor... there is quite a difference between the two!

So far, I've yet to see a vendor that's made it to popular computer stores / online retailers that has any level of Linux friendliness for consumers... (This excludes the specialized Linux computer vendors, who take popular computers and configure them in a way where Linux would work better on it)

Stormy Eyes
June 6th, 2006, 02:42 PM
*shrug* I just bought a MacBook this morning. I'll still be running Ubuntu on the desktop I share with my wife, though.

jdong
June 6th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Whats wrong with a wide lcd?

I have a widescreen LCD (1280x800), so I'll comment a bit on it.

I don't _hate_ having it per se, but I have honestly yet to appreciate the extra 200 pixel strip in width (except for movie watching).

Given the choice, I would've gone with a traditional aspect ratio screen in a smaller laptop :)

prizrak
June 6th, 2006, 07:30 PM
Whats wrong with a wide lcd?
It makes laptops bulky and not comfortable to work with, there is also the issue of alot of things still being programmed with normal aspect ratio in mind making it fairly useless to have a wide screen. The only thing that they are good for is movies aside from that it's not really better than the "square" one.
I have a friend with a widescreen and the kbd is a pain to work on, it's too wide for a laptop.

BoyOfDestiny
June 6th, 2006, 08:17 PM
oh.. i thought Lenovo is chinese and loves Linux generally. But nothing stops formatting hdd and installing Ubuntu. Will they sell blank laptops?.

Lenovo denies ditching Linux
http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Lenovo_denies_ditching_Linux/0,2000061733,39258809,00.htm