Linux/ubuntu - how can i make it popular ?

[rishi_singh]

I hated it earlier. I dont love it, but i like it. Its faster and looks better than windows 7. And there is no need for snake oil antivirus/firewall and such for basic uses. I want to make it popular and encourage others, especially my friends to use it too for desktop. Two guys said that regardless of what linux offers, windows is better because its easy to use and install new software.

Any tips on how to make their (and my) transition to ubuntu smoother. It can be a bit daunting to type commands now and then. Not to mention, the problems with getting drivers to work.

Any list of genuine reasons why folks dislike ubuntu ? I used to dislike it because of wifi problems. It seems to have been solved.
This thread is also shows some problems - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11409950#post11409950

[Tibuda]

Don't preach. Let them use whatever works for them.

Good thing you don't love it. You better love people than love operating systems.

[gsmanners]

Persuasion is subtle. If you have to ask, you're probably not doing it right. But find out what people really want and then show them that they can get it. It's not really all that hard, but it does take a lot of leg work. And it helps if you're a popular person to begin with. :D

[krapp]

Don't preach. Let them use whatever works for them.

Good thing you don't love it. You better love people than love operating systems.

I disagree.

Rishi, bang them over the head with it! Linux! Linux! Linux! Linux!

Also, how are two loves mutually exclusive?

[tartalo]

And there is no need for snake oil antivirus/firewall and such for basic uses.

Whoever told you that a firewall is less necessary in Linux than in Windows was wrong.

[Thewhistlingwind]

I disagree.

Rishi, bang them over the head with it! Linux! Linux! Linux! Linux!

Also, how are two loves mutually exclusive?

Answer: They're not. (And of course +1)


The first time people look at any given ad, they don't even see it.
The second time, they don't notice it.
The third time, they are aware that it is there.
The fourth time, they have a fleeting sense that they've seen it somewhere before.
The fifth time, they actually read the ad.
The sixth time they thumb their nose at it.
The seventh time, they start to get a little irritated with it.
The eighth time, they start to think, "Here's that confounded ad again."
The ninth time, they start to wonder if they're missing out on something.
The tenth time, they ask their friends and neighbors if they've tried it.
The eleventh time, they wonder how the company is paying for all these ads.
The twelfth time, they start to think that it must be a good product.
The thirteenth time, they start to feel the product has value.
The fourteenth time, they start to remember wanting a product exactly like this for a long time.
The fifteenth time, they start to yearn for it because they can't afford to buy it.
The sixteenth time, they accept the fact that they will buy it sometime in the future.
The seventeenth time, they make a note to buy the product.
The eighteenth time, they curse their poverty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty) for not allowing them to buy this terrific product.
The nineteenth time, they count their money very carefully.
The twentieth time prospects see the ad, they buy what is offering.

Of course, this CAN also be considered another reason to get people NOT to try it. Depends on how overt and annoying you are about it.


Whoever told you that a firewall is less necessary in Linux than in Windows was wrong.

This too.

Most people get rooted with something equivalent to remote desktop, a weak password, and no firewall.

[haqking]

Let people use what they want, Linux will find the person when they are ready ;-)

[Tibuda]

I disagree.

Rishi, bang them over the head with it! Linux! Linux! Linux! Linux!
Yeah, and people will only have one more reason to dislike Linux.


Also, how are two loves mutually exclusive?
Like this: http://stallman.org/archives/2011-jul-oct.html#06_October_2011_%28Steve_Jobs%29

[beew]

Like this: http://stallman.org/archives/2011-jul-oct.html#06_October_2011_%28Steve_Jobs%29

So what? It is not personal, he was talking about Jobs' business model. It may not be very tactful for him to write that right after Jobs' death, but would you rather he be a hypocrite? He wrote it in his private blog, not the FSF web site. No one asked you to read it.

Meanwhile Scientific American has a much more critical piece of Jobs (basically saying he was a horrible person)

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2011/10/24/steve-jobs-a-genius-yes-a-role-model-for-the-rest-of-us-no-way/

[Legendary_Bibo]

So what? It is not personal, he was talking about Jobs' business model. It may not be very tactful for him to write that right after Jobs' death, but would you rather he be a hypocrite? He wrote it in his private blog, not the FSF web site. No one asked you to read it.

Meanwhile Scientific American has a much more critical piece of Jobs (basically saying he was a horrible person)

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2011/10/24/steve-jobs-a-genius-yes-a-role-model-for-the-rest-of-us-no-way/

The point is that he's a leader of an organization, and when your leader starts spouting off human devaluing statements then it makes the organization they belong to look bad.

It'd be like if our President started spouting off negative statements about a group of people, or one specific person, you just don't excuse him for it because "Oh that's just the President being the President". It's not like Jobs was some dictator or something along those lines.

[Rubykuby]

This is quite interesting. Earlier this month, I and a friend of mine gave a computer to a close neighbour who'd been living with an ancient dusty Windows XP machine forever. The machine took 10 minutes+ to boot and was close to simply falling apart. We got her a better computer, manually put parts together and installed both XP (knowing she liked a specific brand of Windows-only games) and Ubuntu on it.

We configured the whole thing and brought it over, plugged it in and let the computer do what it does. We sat our neighbour down and told her to perform specific actions she would come across daily. Now, this really required ample patience, but she figured out how to start applications, shut them down, read mail, browse the web, chat with people, and that's that. She didn't really need much more.

A week later, she came back to me and asked me to uninstall Windows XP for her. It turned out she wanted to play the specific brand of games I mentioned earlier, and booted Windows according to instructions, but found herself entirely lost in the interface after a week of Ubuntu, saying she "preferred the new 'thing' so much more over Windows".

Then today, at my brother's and mother's(!) birthday party, I was sitting in a corner next to a fair computer running Ubuntu. I kept some music running (Micheal Buble :)) and enjoyed the constant flow of crisps. A while later, my aunt came over and more closely inspected the screen, noting it wasn't what she was used to. So, in fairly non-complicated language, I explained her that I erased Windows entirely (this wasn't exactly the case with that specific computer, but I didn't want to make it complicated) and installed a Linux flavour, Ubuntu.

Worse, she mentioned that it looked like an "Apple Mac", at which I shuddered and reminded her that by house rules, the only 'apples' spoken of can be eaten, resulting in laughter of course. She was interested, and specifically interested when my father mentioned the fact that it was entirely gratis. (On a side note, my aunt lives on a terrible wage).

So I briefly showed her around, said it could do just about anything you'd want to do, but is not Windows. She went back to her seat and I grabbed pen and paper. I gave her then pen and paper and asked her to write down what she really does with her PC. I got a short list: Browsing, email, office applications (well, she actually wrote down the well-known "Word, Excel, Powerpoint" trio), graphics editting, audio editting, child games. So I grabbed the nearest laptop, installed some of the above. Just like with my neighbour, I gave her full control over the laptop and asked her to perform simple tasks. She performed most well, but didn't seem to quite understand the "dash" at the end of the ride, despite having instructed her how to use it several times.

To answer your question: Hand your friends an Ubuntu PC and allow them to play around with it. Knowing people don't like to peek into another person's computer, just give them really basic tasks such as opening the browser. It may seem really easy to you, but it makes much of a challenge to people who haven't worked with Ubuntu, ever. In general, people like challenges, so you'll keep their attention just long enough to get them slightly interested. Offer them to try it on their PC for free and you might just have luck.

Do note, however, that some people may want Ubuntu at first looks, but you yourself know it's wiser to keep them away from the whole OS. My cousin, AKA the son of the aunt I was talking about, does lots of audio editting stuff. To do that, he got a really weird piece of Hardware with fancy buttons that somewhat resembles a... I don't know what it is, but I could tell that it won't run on Linux just by looking at it. Seeing as he uses it every single day, alongside a series specific Windows programs, I told them that I could try to install it, but they shouldn't keep their hopes up about it. In other words, I told them I could find a way around it, but that it's too technical in a sense that I would lose their attention before getting to a conclusion.

I'm now hoping to visit my aunt some time soon and install it for her, then visit my brother's friend's father and fix up his bloated PC that takes 15 minutes to boot and whose desktop is filled with your regular Windows bloatware. Both of these have a critically low wage and embrace Ubuntu for the fact that it's gratis, I must stress. For these people, not only because it's free, but because it gives them the functionality they need, Ubuntu is perfect. For people who are heavily integrated into Windows with vital applications and can't be bothered to find/use workarounds, not so much and I generally don't advise them to use it.

I hope this answers any of your questions about making Ubuntu a bit more populous. Popular, however, is subjective. Within the Linux community, Ubuntu is popular. Among general society, the only Linux distribution that people can relate to is Android (most of the time without knowing it runs Linux, or what Linux is for that matter). You can't make Ubuntu popular without making it more populous. Until then, happy computing.

[beew]

The point is that he's a leader of an organization, and when your leader starts spouting off human devaluing statements then it makes the organization they belong to look bad.

It'd be like if our President started spouting off negative statements about a group of people, or one specific person, you just don't excuse him for it because "Oh that's just the President being the President". It's not like Jobs was some dictator or something along those lines.

Obviously he was not sadden by Jobs' passing. But then everyday many people die, we usually don't feel anything about it because we are not connected to them, are they any less deserving of grief by strangers than Jobs?

He never said that he was happy that Jobs died, and in fact he said no one deserves to die. But he was expressing his disapproval of Jobs' legacy and influence, that is not personal or human devaluing. It is the type of commentary one finds in any history text book.

[|{urse]

I hope the whole world doesn't switch to Linux, "penetration testing" wouldn't be much fun anymore.

[as2000]

I don't push it. But if asked, then I show them and let them drive it for a while. My neighbor is a good example. I had the garage pc on and tuned into a online radio station while working on the car. We got to talking and the conversation led to the computer. Next thing I knew I was unhooking the unit so he can take it home for a while. About a week later he returned the computer and he asked for help installing. He dual boots today and he is beginning to use Ubuntu more and more.

[ubudog]

Obviously he was not sadden by Jobs' passing. But then everyday many people die, we usually don't feel anything about it because we are not connected to them, are they any less deserving of grief by strangers than Jobs?

He never said that he was happy that Jobs died, and in fact he said no one deserves to die. But he was expressing his disapproval of Jobs' legacy and influence, that is not personal or human devaluing. It is the type of commentary one finds in any history text book.

Let's all keep this thread to the point.

[krapp]

Like this: http://stallman.org/archives/2011-jul-oct.html#06_October_2011_%28Steve_Jobs%29

I'm not sure how that addresses your original distinction, but whatevz.

LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX

You're free to criticize it as much as you want. Oh wait...

[rishi_singh]

Don't preach. Let them use whatever works for them.

Good thing you don't love it. You better love people than love operating systems.

No, no. No preaching, only advertising of sorts.

[rishi_singh]

Let people use what they want, Linux will find the person when they are ready ;-)

Are you a matrix fan. I am !

[rishi_singh]

This is quite interesting..............................Until then, happy computing.
Pleased to hear those stories. :)
I guess the main thing for "basic" users is internet and "office". If linux can be made popular, then maybe hardware manufacturers will take it seriously and make drivers for it and provide support. I guess that will wipe off the issue of networking problems (like the one i had with my wifi).
For the "office", libre seems to be ok, but it cant open pptX, docX documents. So, that can be a problem too. I wonder if balmer and billy did that on purpose.

I feel that ubuntu is nice and it deserves a chance. I want to spread it in my own little way.

PS :

How do you write bill gates name using pictures ? Simple !
A $100 bill followed by Expensive gates to an expensive house.

For the money they demand, bill and ballmer are not doing a great job. We were just getting used to win 7, when those dollar obsessed guys introduced win 8, and that too with a surprise - http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-dont-blame-us-if-windows-8s-secure-boot-requirement-blocks-linux-dual-boot/10781 http://ubuntuforums.org/data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhEQAQAOYAAIaoKaLLIq7bOqDJIJC2K4W nKd3xq5/HHbDdPKnUL6rWMqTOKKfSLaPMJabQKqzYNK3ZN/7+/YepKZe7Ofj68pW7KZ3EJoywKqXPKoywJunw18bldo+zJZzEHom sKo2tN4irKpvCL4+uOKDII5rBLJe6OrXfSaLLMYuuKpi7O8fle t3nw5/III2xKI2yKpzELLLId+rw2YuvKo6zLI60K4eqKbjQeN/qw5O4Ka/bPNTgtL/RjrPeRKrVMdbtnqfCX6jDX4irKZa5NtjmtZO5LYiqKo+zKbjNf pOzPs3en4mrKZ3FHoquKrXcSp7GL7HcQY6uOcjXnq3OVJa8K8D eb5C0Kc3phYyvKo6zK4yxKq/QWqLLJZO5LpW7K57HIaXITKPGSJ/ILJrCKMPXj5i5P7HTVLDaPo2xJ7rQfpG2LbndV6PKNY6yKNjuo omtKv///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAEAAG8ALAAAAAARABAAAAfOgG+CbxFJE wSIiYgpg4Q2Xz4GkpMGbVolg2NgViYInp8IPBs0gjcTKjkCqqu rT1hvFGRUZhAAAFwQabZFEBAub2hSTQ8PtkQhthInxFkaQmoK0 bZXErZO0QoXQGU9Cd624CTe3jI/awzoDOAAU10vYehMMTMYDvbgOBUASkb2bm9HKiwYaKvKAjFBbA 30AAuJhQYNALTY0sACG1sQQQhagWJEgI8gQwaoMWjHGRYDUqpU 6UXCoAgwMnQ4QLPmgSUcRDSKEOVDgZ9Af0J5EwgAOw==

[Timmer1240]

I dont think it will ever be popular but I like using it so thats all that matters to me!Windows 7 seems alright my wife uses it I just leave people alone they can use whatever they want its only an OS not a religion!

[krapp]

its only an OS not a religion!

Speak for yourself!

http://stallman.org/saintignucius.jpg

[Tibuda]

its only an OS not a religion!

I have seen this used many times on those forums, and it annoys me. I agree with what you mean but not with as you put it. This phrase makes it look like religion is about preaching around, which is not true. Yes, most of the "mainstream" religions tell his followers to preach, but you can't generalize. "Let my servants be few & secret: they shall rule the many & the known".

[krapp]

Hah a critique of proselytizing religions. What's the alternative Tibuda?

[Tibuda]

Hah a critique of proselytizing religions. What's the alternative Tibuda?

No, it was a critique of the generalization. Religious discussions are not allowed.

[krapp]

That's strange: there seems to have been an approving reference to Thelema (or so Google tells me). In any case, I don't think Timmer was referring to religion as such but to my kind of FLOSSy fundamentalism.

[nothingspecial]

Religious discussions are not allowed.

Which is why this thread needs to get back on topic.

[forrestcupp]

Do what they did in the movie Halloween 3. Manufacture a bunch of wildly popular Halloween masks that secretly have a device on them that brainwashes them when the commercial is played. Only instead of having the device make snakes and bugs crawl out of their skulls, just make it brainwash them into installing and liking Ubuntu.

I think that's about the best chance of Ubuntu becoming popular. :)

[BBQdave]

Don't preach. Let them use whatever works for them.

Good thing you don't love it. You better love people than love operating systems.

I agree, do not preach... but perhaps, suggest any OS takes understanding and exploring, so it might be interesting to explore a GNU/Linux OS that gives you (and your friends) the freedom to modify and grow with the distro. Ultimately it empowers you. GNU/Linux (and BSD) is a community; osX and Windows are products. Ooops, I started preaching:tongue:

And I love Debian6 so much that I want to marry it:D

Too, if you truly want to support your friends trying GNU/Linux, be prepared to assist them and help them maintenance their system until they are comfortable.

[rishi_singh]

I hope the whole world doesn't switch to Linux, "penetration testing" wouldn't be much fun anymore.

Please tell me what that means.

[1clue]

Wow.

First, penetration testing is a test of the security of an Internet site. Not just one device but the entire network. It involves trying to break in through any available interface, including your wifi or email server.

You guys really don't know how to convince people about Linux?

If you "get religion" you just turn people off. Nobody wants to talk to a religious nut unless they belong to that same religion, and not always even then. Which is why it's against the rules, and why I don't hang around on religious sites.

You promote Linux by using Linux. Quietly. Put it on your laptop and run it without shoving your laptop in front of anyone's face. If you need to show somebody a website they'll see that you're not running Windows or Mac. Learn the features and where they are, and be comfortable with your OS.

I made an account for my girlfriend on my home machine. Her Vista laptop sucks and half the time she has a virus on it that the software doesn't catch. I'm at work, and she uses Ubuntu. I'm home, and I log into my home machine and it shows her logged in. It's invisible other than that. She never uses it when I'm home. I installed Ubuntu on her laptop, but she had me swap back because she doesn't like having to install software every time she wants to do something new, and she's familiar with the Windows apps and doesn't know the Linux version's name.

Other than that, she obviously likes Ubuntu but just doesn't want to admit it. A few months and I'm betting she wants Linux back.

At work, people see my desktop and the inevitable "what's that?" question comes up. I keep it brief. "Ubuntu." They can use Google just as well as I can. I've seen a couple more laptops running it too.

[1clue]

Oh yeah.

Ask them what cell phone they have. Ask if it's Android if you don't know. If they say yes, then they already run Linux, and Ubuntu is just another type of Linux. Stop there, let them chew on it.

You don't get a commission. You don't have to make the final sale. They are their own best salesman.

[Nixarter]

Please tell me what that means.

linux is more secure, in general, so his casual hacking adventures would be significantly more difficult, if they continued at all.

[vanlong441]

Wow.

First, penetration testing is a test of the security of an Internet site. Not just one device but the entire network. It involves trying to break in through any available interface, including your wifi or email server.

You guys really don't know how to convince people about Linux?

If you "get religion" you just turn people off. Nobody wants to talk to a religious nut unless they belong to that same religion, and not always even then. Which is why it's against the rules, and why I don't hang around on religious sites.

You promote Linux by using Linux. Quietly. Put it on your laptop and run it without shoving your laptop in front of anyone's face. If you need to show somebody a website they'll see that you're not running Windows or Mac. Learn the features and where they are, and be comfortable with your OS.

I made an account for my girlfriend on my home machine. Her Vista laptop sucks and half the time she has a virus on it that the software doesn't catch. I'm at work, and she uses Ubuntu. I'm home, and I log into my home machine and it shows her logged in. It's invisible other than that. She never uses it when I'm home. I installed Ubuntu on her laptop, but she had me swap back because she doesn't like having to install software every time she wants to do something new, and she's familiar with the Windows apps and doesn't know the Linux version's name.

Other than that, she obviously likes Ubuntu but just doesn't want to admit it. A few months and I'm betting she wants Linux back.

At work, people see my desktop and the inevitable "what's that?" question comes up. I keep it brief. "Ubuntu." They can use Google just as well as I can. I've seen a couple more laptops running it too.

I love the way you put it. Very effective.

[Dangertux]

Wow.

First, penetration testing is a test of the security of an Internet site. Not just one device but the entire network. It involves trying to break in through any available interface, including your wifi or email server.


Penetration testing is exactly what it sounds like. It is a vulnerabiilty assessment against a system with the intentions to gain unauthorized access to the system. It is designed to simulate an actual attack by an advanced persistent threat.

The scope of a pen test can be as broad or narrow as the client wants it to be. It can consist of one singular SCADA system, or an entire network of machines. They may be done from inside a known network, or outside of a network with no details given to the "attacker"

Penetration testing is NOT cracking/hacking. A penetration test is designed to provide documented, repeatable and actionable results. These results must be able to be given to all levels of the companies "chain of command" from the CTO/CSO making the purchase decisions to the IT tech on the floor making changes to the existing equipment.

A hack/crack on the other hand is just trying to get in for whatever reason to get at whatever your final objective is. Often times just to see if you could.

As far as the poster who said "penetration testing wouldn't be much fun if everyone switched to Linux". Penetration testing isn't fun, nor does loading up a back track VM and owning a Windows box make you a penetration tester. In the real world, where a client expects results a penetration test may and frequently does include a linux based system or a dozen. That being said, a poorly configured Linux system is just as easy to compromise as a poorly configured Windows system.

As far as convincing people to use Linux. Neither Penetration Testing and Vulnerability Assessment should be a factor nor should the overall security of a system. While security may play some slight role, the ultimate end is that people just want it to work the way they expect. If whatever operating system they are using fails to do that, they will switch. Individuals are amazingly brand loyal if a product is satisfying them, for anyone who has ever had any sales or marketing experience I am sure they will agree that getting a happy customer to convert is one of the most difficult things you can do.

[1clue]

Never mind.

[|{urse]

Penetration testing is exactly what it sounds like. It is a vulnerabiilty assessment against a system with the intentions to gain unauthorized access to the system. It is designed to simulate an actual attack by an advanced persistent threat.

The scope of a pen test can be as broad or narrow as the client wants it to be. It can consist of one singular SCADA system, or an entire network of machines. They may be done from inside a known network, or outside of a network with no details given to the "attacker"

Penetration testing is NOT cracking/hacking. A penetration test is designed to provide documented, repeatable and actionable results. These results must be able to be given to all levels of the companies "chain of command" from the CTO/CSO making the purchase decisions to the IT tech on the floor making changes to the existing equipment.

A hack/crack on the other hand is just trying to get in for whatever reason to get at whatever your final objective is. Often times just to see if you could.

As far as the poster who said "penetration testing wouldn't be much fun if everyone switched to Linux". Penetration testing isn't fun, nor does loading up a back track VM and owning a Windows box make you a penetration tester. In the real world, where a client expects results a penetration test may and frequently does include a linux based system or a dozen. That being said, a poorly configured Linux system is just as easy to compromise as a poorly configured Windows system.

As far as convincing people to use Linux. Neither Penetration Testing and Vulnerability Assessment should be a factor nor should the overall security of a system. While security may play some slight role, the ultimate end is that people just want it to work the way they expect. If whatever operating system they are using fails to do that, they will switch. Individuals are amazingly brand loyal if a product is satisfying them, for anyone who has ever had any sales or marketing experience I am sure they will agree that getting a happy customer to convert is one of the most difficult things you can do.

I sometimes do it for a living as a consultant, and honestly, It is lots of fun. So far as backtrack, I never use that, slitaz with nmap and metasploit + my 92348572984294857 scripts for one thing or another is all I usually need (well, that and naive people for the social engineering end of it). All I'm saying here is that if everyone ran linux it would be a lot less fun (even if those systems were poorly configured).

[Dangertux]

I sometimes do it for a living as a consultant, and honestly, It is lots of fun. So far as backtrack, I never use that, slitaz with nmap and metasploit + my 92348572984294857 scripts for one thing or another is all I usually need (well, that and naive people for the social engineering end of it). All I'm saying here is that if everyone ran linux it would be a lot less fun (even if those systems were poorly configured).

Cool. It was more in reference to the misunderstanding about what a pen-test is. Surely since you do it for a living you know there is a certain mentality that everyone can and SHOULD be a pentester. This leads to poor vulnerability assessment, and penetration testers that couldn't use a debugger to save their lives (yes this is important).

Which leads you to the garden variety penetration tester. I ran nessus, I printed a report , I owned some windows boxes with db_autopwn. I'm leet...Yes and useless..

As far as fun, no I've never had any fun conducting a penetration test, I guess if you're working solo your mileage varies.

[|{urse]

Haha yep. At any rate I think the desktop shares are where they should be, let them come to linux on their own.