Is This the World We Created?

[sffvba[e0rt]

Ubuntu (the project) is collaborative. We all make it what it is. Many of you know that, but I still encounter people on a daily basis both online and off who have not realized this (yet). I often hear gripes about Ubuntu not being this or that, but I don't hear enough constructive discussion and "creation" of the Ubuntu we want....

Rest of Blog Entry (http://randall.executiv.es/uds-p-1)

Something positive to do rather than just complain ;)


404

[dniMretsaM]

Rest of Blog Entry (http://randall.executiv.es/uds-p-1)

Something positive to do rather than just complain ;)


404

Why would we want to do something? Just let someone else do the work. Bashing them is fun anyway.

Good article!

[Smilax]

Rest of Blog Entry (http://randall.executiv.es/uds-p-1)

Something positive to do rather than just complain ;)


404


is this some sort of joke.

cause i've tried to collaborate, you know, constructive 'discussion'.

the only response i've had is, if you don't like the way we're doing things, take yourself down the road.

[sffvba[e0rt]

is this some sort of joke.

cause i've tried to collaborate, you know, constructive 'discussion'.

the only response i've had is, if you don't like the way we're doing things, take yourself down the road.

In a recent survey that was done to try identify and address any issues in the Ubuntu Community (http://ubuntuone.com/1DWnm1bTcZUcmRs8aAaZ6u) one of the biggest de-motivaters to contributing to the community was "Community Bickering" (see question 7)


It is interesting that Community Bickering was highlighted is the primary frustration, and it was significantly more common than the other themes. More specifically, many
respondents were frustrated with those who complain about things yet contribute little or nothing. This is clearly an area where we need to improve the atmosphere of the community.

It is easy to criticize and there is very little "constructive discussion" occurring on the forum on certain topics.

I can assure you this is no joke, and you (and everyone else) has been invited to participate.



404

[Smilax]

In a recent survey that was done to try identify and address any issues in the Ubuntu Community (http://ubuntuone.com/1DWnm1bTcZUcmRs8aAaZ6u) one of the biggest de-motivaters to contributing to the community was "Community Bickering" (see question 7)



It is easy to criticize and there is very little "constructive discussion" occurring on the forum on certain topics.

I can assure you this is no joke, and you (and everyone else) has been invited to participate.



404


well, if you wish to label my "constructive discussion"

as "Community Bickering"

instead of listening to the issues i and many other's raise,

that's up to you.



i may have been

"invited to participate"

but upon attempting just that,

the only response i have recived was

if you don't like the way we're doing things, take yourself down the road.

[johnnybgoode83]

I had to unlike the Ubuntu Facebook page because the comments from people were full of Unity/Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 hate. I got tired of telling them that if they don't like it to make a contribution towards improving it instead of whinging about it.

[collisionystm]

I had to unlike the Ubuntu Facebook page because the comments from people were full of Unity/Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 hate. I got tired of telling them that if they don't like it to make a contribution towards improving it instead of whinging about it.

Well Ubuntu is kind of at a mid-way point in its life. It is still a maturing OS that needs a lot of TLC but It is attracting new users that know absolutely nothing about computers, but simply just want to use Ubuntu to see what the fuss is about. They are trying to use 'The Next Big Thing' so to speak.
I think the common mindset is that being on a computer should take no effort what so ever. If Mac and Windows can make it easy, why waste my time using Ubuntu if it takes this much work.

Only those geeky and techy enough to understand the true benefits are the ones who can look past this.

We all need to remember that tech savvy people are not the only ones turning an eye to linux now. We are going to see a lot of complaining and questions, and the only thing we can do is take them with a Smile, give back the best answers we can and help the person choose whats best for them and their needs.
We cannot flame individuals that decide to use Windows because Ubuntu cannot offer them what they need.
Encourage the person to use what works for them, even if it is another operating system and remind them they can always help contribute to Ubuntu and build the features they wish it had.

[hansdown]

I was surprised to see, how many people in the survey, are in Europe.

Cool!

[collisionystm]

I was surprised to see, how many people in the survey, are in Europe.

Cool!


Europe loves Ubuntu!!

http://www.ubuntu.com/products/casestudies/french-national-police-force-saves-2-million-year-ubuntu

[hansdown]

Thanks for the link, collisionystm.:)

More positivity, is very welocme on the forum.

The circle of friends logo, is a good reminder of, why I joined the forum.

[forrestcupp]

So Ubuntu is not really free software? If you're not a developer, then up yours?

What about Bug #1? I don't think Microsoft is all upset because the majority of people on Windows is made up of users and not developers. The people who really are shaping Ubuntu need to not forget that most people are just users. If a user doesn't like something, they'll find something they like. I know a lot of people don't care, but the guy who came up with Bug #1 must care.

[collisionystm]

So Ubuntu is not really free software? If you're not a developer, then up yours?

What about Bug #1? I don't think Microsoft is all upset because the majority of people on Windows is made up of users and not developers. The people who really are shaping Ubuntu need to not forget that most people are just users. If a user doesn't like something, they'll find something they like. I know a lot of people don't care, but the guy who came up with Bug #1 must care.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1

^ For those who have no idea what Bug #1 is

[sffvba[e0rt]

So Ubuntu is not really free software? If you're not a developer, then up yours?

Care to elaborate on your statement?


404

[collisionystm]

So Ubuntu is not really free software? If you're not a developer, then up yours?

What about Bug #1? I don't think Microsoft is all upset because the majority of people on Windows is made up of users and not developers. The people who really are shaping Ubuntu need to not forget that most people are just users. If a user doesn't like something, they'll find something they like. I know a lot of people don't care, but the guy who came up with Bug #1 must care.

I think Microsoft would be upset for 2 big reasons.

1.) Everything is going mobile. Right now the average person's world revolves around one single piece of technology. Their phone. In the grand scheme of things, a personal computer is secondary to a phone.
Microsoft cannot produce a phone that anyone wants to use. The iPhone is absolutely amazing and the Droid is right there with it. Windows may as well not even exist in the mobile market.

2.) Servers. As many of us know, almost all major web servers are Unix based. No one wants to take a chance on Win. Server in a mission critical environment where there is NO ROOM for failure.
Microsoft will always be the office server. At least in my foreseeable future. But then again... so many things are being handled in the 'coud' and on the web that we are on the verge of a new era.. big changes are coming.

[koleoptero]

With fame comes hate. Ubuntu is fairly popular among the linux distributions now so there are plenty of haters. It's natural and in full accordance with human nature.

I've used unity, I tried it out when 11.10 came out. If I was a new user I'd be working fine with it, I didn't have to do anything to make it work. Banshee worked fine, codec installing was properly done, firefox worked fine, libreoffice worked fine. I didn't like it, so I use another DE, but I'm not an average user, and I understand that what I don't like I don't have to hate. I use something else because I am used to my desktop working a certain way, but new users aren't that way.

As for ubuntu devs not accepting every user's input, well they can't. It's nice to be aware of what the general populace wants, but ubuntu needs direction or else it won't go anywhere. You can't do what everyone wants because every person wants different things. You decide upon a direction and work as you go. Just because ubuntu devs don't take everybody's input to heart doesn't mean that the community doesn't play a role in its development.

Don't forget that unity is still new, give it time to mature. It's been in development about a year now, if I'm not mistaken. Gnome-shell has been in development a fair amount more (2+ years) and KDE and XFCE even more. Give it time.

The hate has always been a part of the process. I remember all the hate the human theme used to get. Then the light themes and the window buttons on the left. Plus many other things (plymouth, pulseaudio, installation of recommended dependencies by default).

There's no need for all the negativity but people are people and hate will always be present. One more thing to keep in mind is that "haters" are always more vocal in general.

(sorry for the lack of a general point, I have a headache but I had to say these things)

[forrestcupp]

Care to elaborate on your statement?


404

What I'm saying is that the majority of Ubuntu's market share is made up of users and not developers. I don't like the sentiment that if you're not contributing then you're not important. A lot of people don't have the ability to contribute in what might be considered satisfactory ways. That shouldn't mean that 95% of Ubuntu users are unimportant and their thoughts and feelings don't count because they don't "contribute".

Whether something is constructive criticism or whining is pretty subjective. Generally, if you disagree with someone, you'll usually just consider it whining and not listen to a word they say. But if you're a big time developer, then maybe we'll at least listen to what you say before we tell you we don't care what you think.

[toupeiro]

what i'm saying is that the majority of ubuntu's market share is made up of users and not developers. I don't like the sentiment that if you're not contributing then you're not important. A lot of people don't have the ability to contribute in what might be considered satisfactory ways. That shouldn't mean that 95% of ubuntu users are unimportant and their thoughts and feelings don't count because they don't "contribute".

Whether something is constructive criticism or whining is pretty subjective. Generally, if you disagree with someone, you'll usually just consider it whining and not listen to a word they say. But if you're a big time developer, then maybe we'll at least listen to what you say before we tell you we don't care what you think.

:ks

Add to that fact that a chat room and messaging list full of developers is just that. Users do a great deal of the brunt of spreading the word, and helping people. On Forum and off! If you only quantify contribution by bean count and posts, you've already failed.

p.s. I still care about bug 1.

[sffvba[e0rt]

Well, from what I can gather from the blog post this is an opportunity to give inputs and comments on various things relating to the next release in a place that would have much more success at having someone that can do something about it take note and maybe do it.

The forum isn't the best place for that and a lot of the ranting about issues like Unity has been nothing but ranting, so I would expect those really wanting to make a change will use this opportunity to give their feedback in a positive and constructive manner and help shape their distro.


404

[Smilax]

and a lot of the ranting about issues like Unity has been nothing but ranting



bit of a loaded statement their, no?

[forrestcupp]

Well, from what I can gather from the blog post this is an opportunity to give inputs and comments on various things relating to the next release in a place that would have much more success at having someone that can do something about it take note and maybe do it.

The forum isn't the best place for that and a lot of the ranting about issues like Unity has been nothing but ranting, so I would expect those really wanting to make a change will use this opportunity to give their feedback in a positive and constructive manner and help shape their distro.


404

That's cool if it really works out like that.

But sometimes a rant is actually constructive criticism that is just laced with emotion. It's true that a lot of times people just say "Unity sux0rz", and that is just a useless rant. But just because someone is angry and emotional doesn't mean what they have to say is totally useless. I hope they make the effort to see past people's emotions and listen to the ideas.

But from what I hear, Unity has made a lot of progress. I haven't upgraded yet, so I haven't seen it in this release.

[cariboo]

That's cool if it really works out like that.

But sometimes a rant is actually constructive criticism that is just laced with emotion. It's true that a lot of times people just say "Unity sux0rz", and that is just a useless rant. But just because someone is angry and emotional doesn't mean what they have to say is totally useless. I hope they make the effort to see past people's emotions and listen to the ideas.

But from what I hear, Unity has made a lot of progress. I haven't upgraded yet, so I haven't seen it in this release.

I agree a rant can be constructive criticism, but to me it seems that 3 out four rants are all repletion, I'm a Unity user, and it suits the way I work, I'm starting to get extremely tired of being called an idiot or worse because I use it.

The forum is a good place to rant, but the users shouldn't have any expectations that their criticism will do much good, until we can get a change in our relationship with Canonical,. Creating a blueprint might be a way to get that change started.

[Mikeb85]

I agree a rant can be constructive criticism, but to me it seems that 3 out four rants are all repletion, I'm a Unity user, and it suits the way I work, I'm starting to get extremely tired of being called an idiot or worse because I use it.

The forum is a good place to rant, but the users shouldn't have any expectations that their criticism will do much good, until we can get a change in our relationship with Canonical,. Creating a blueprint might be a way to get that change started.

I think it's also important for many users to realize that this is the direction Ubuntu is going, period. From the sound of things, most users install the new update, see Unity, click a few things, and decide they hate it without trying to actually learn it and use it.

Constructive criticism is always the best way to go about things, for instance, maybe noting that it could use a few extra features or more customization. Maybe make a prominent launcher settings panel (instead of hiding it in CCSM) and an optional task switcher bar or something? (for those who can't be bothered to Google how to modify Unity)

What really worries me though is that new people come to the Ubuntu website, then come here, and see a bunch of bitter Linux users who tell them Unity sucks, so they install some other distro, get fed up and give up on Linux.

In fact, when I first came to Linux 4-5 months ago, that's what happened to me. I was interested in Ubuntu, came here, saw all the 'Unity sucks' nonsense, and installed Linux Mint (and about 10 other distros) instead. Then I got curious about Unity (because of the hate), used it and tried to really understand it, and realized that most of the criticism isn't of Unity, but merely resistance to change. Now that I've been using Unity, whenever I use a more 'traditional' DE I really notice how inefficient the 'old' way of working is...

[fdrake]

criticism is good! it tells you that ppl are frustrated but at the same time they consider(or need) you . Think it something like a lover, you criticize her/him/it to improve your relationship because you do care, other wise you would just walk away with no words.

----just trying to see the bright spot of the dark side!----

[pommie]

If only they would say why Unity sucks for them, then it would be constructive, I myself do not like Unity, but I do not think it sucks, I just do not like it, if I say that I used WinXP in classic mode and at the moment am using 11.04 in classic mode, would that say why I dislike Unity.
One other problem I see is all the "try it you will like it" replies, they are as bad as the rants, who are they to tell others what to like??, well I did, and I did not, so I choose to go to Xubuntu, shrunk a partition this morning to put on :)

Its all about choices, and I chose to not use Unity, some members need to calm down and remember that its not only "Its your choice" it's also "Its my choice not yours"

Cheers David