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flar
June 2nd, 2006, 04:19 AM
I've been using Ubuntu on my desktop computers (home, office, and multimedia centre) since Warty. It's been without a doubt the best linux distro over the last two years. Up until recently, I've been very excited about Ubuntu and its potential for average users. However, lately it seems that I'm spending more time maintaining it than using it.

The latest problem I'm having is with the ATI drivers and my Radeon 9200. I was able to fix that problem, but the average user would have been lost, and probably put off by linux altogether when they couldn't use OpenOffice or any 3D apps. Not only that, but for the first time since I've been using linux, I don't have confidence in my systems stability. Before Dapper, and even the Dapper of a month ago, I never had problems with settings changing, crashes, or apps not working properly. Now I have trouble opening photos in the GIMP!! My NFS shares no longer automount ( I've been doing sudo mount -a upon reboot). Nautilus crashes when I browse FAT32 partitions (sometimes), problems with suspend and hibernate (used to work), /dev/dsp dissappearing once in a while on one of my machines, and I could go on and on. And by the way, I take very good care of my systems, hardware is all good, I stick to the ubuntu packages, etc... ( I have an old computer for experimentation)

My point is that I'm a bit worried that with all the hype and expectations surrounding the new Ubuntu, a lot of people are going to try Ubuntu and get a bad impression of not just Ubuntu, but linux in general. It's been frustrating enough for me that I'm considering switching to another distro. Being experienced with linux, I'm able to deal with these problems as they come, but many people would simply give up in frustration and go back to Windows XP and tell their friends that linux is a hassle. Perhaps with Breezy and Hoary I became complacent and started to think that the days of linux being a hassle were over, but maybe not.

What's going on? Is Ubuntu getting too bloated? Is there too much focus on eye candy or ease of use?

What do YOU think?

Mike_N
June 2nd, 2006, 04:22 AM
It's been out for less then a day... No software developer gets it right the first time. Hell, Half Life 2: Episode 1 came out today as well at 1:00PM eastern time and already has updates, less then 12 hours later...

rcarring
June 2nd, 2006, 04:23 AM
I have shared that discomforted feeling with Dapper. I think its newness and occasional problem issues have acted negatively. I know that at one point I was all set to return to Breezy and give up on Dapper, but... the excellent resources on this site and the helpful people here led me to stick with Dapper.

I don't think moving from Windows to Dapper is a step to be taken lightly, which is why I recommend people try a vmware or qemu image approach first.

Unfortunately I can't not use Windows as the host system has too many emulators that need its hosting. Not too mention I have no intention of forking out nearly 50 bucks for a fancy front end to Wine.

joshrobinson
June 2nd, 2006, 04:24 AM
well ati drivers suck.. so i would blame alot on that.. i had a post a few days ago about how to fix that problem.. maybe you saw it im not sure..

i personally think they need MORE eye candy.. more pretty stuff!
and ubuntu is way better then any other distro ive used.. suse is a pain.. but pretty

NyTE
June 2nd, 2006, 04:26 AM
Im going to have to agree Ubuntu is getting to eyecandyish and buggy
Yea I like ease of use but to the point were apps crash and stuff,and getting
heavy on ram..no

flar
June 2nd, 2006, 04:26 AM
I realize that it's the first day of the official release, maybe I didn't make my point clearly. Basically, Dapper was better a month ago than it is now. The problems I've been having are fundamental problems that make it a weak distro, at least for now. I'm not trying to crap on Ubuntu, i love Ubuntu, I'm just extremely dissapointed lately and I fear that it's not ready yet for mass consumption.

joshrobinson
June 2nd, 2006, 04:30 AM
I realize that it's the first day of the official release, maybe I didn't make my point clearly. Basically, Dapper was better a month ago than it is now. The problems I've been having are fundamental problems that make it a weak distro, at least for now. I'm not trying to crap on Ubuntu, i love Ubuntu, I'm just extremely dissapointed lately and I fear that it's not ready yet for mass consumption.

some systems it runs on better then others.. i just wish my touchpad wasnt goofy on dapper, and there was an application that really let you control it better (not gsynaptics)

other then a few updates screwing me over my laptop has been fine.. but xgl is totally busted on my desktop right now, because of some updates

its sad.. xgl is so cool

cstudent
June 2nd, 2006, 04:37 AM
The average Joe user isn't going to know how to tweak video drivers whether it's Linux or Windows. Joe user usually can't even change the resolution or even understands what that is. I'm still surprised when I help someone out with their computer and they have a nice big monitor set at 800x640. To them that's the way it came up and they had a picture, so they figured that was how it was suppose to look.

As for me, I'm going to wait at least a month before I upgrade my main desktop to Dapper. I just installed it on a test machine I have at work last week. I'll wait and see how things go. Right now I'm happy with my Breezy system.

.

polo_step
June 2nd, 2006, 04:42 AM
Im going to have to agree Ubuntu is getting to eyecandyish and buggy
Yea I like ease of use but to the point were apps crash and stuff
Each release has gotten less buggy and more functional on the various machines here, without exception.

I couldn't make 5.04 stable to save my life. Many of the applications worked horribly, some producing the most spectacular crashes I've ever seen, and I've been using computers constantly since the days of CP/M.

Never mind the increased device support for newer hardware and wireless.

NeghVar
June 2nd, 2006, 04:49 AM
I've been running Dapper since RC6 I think and I have not had 1 problem at all. I'm not to concerned about eye candy, I don't use any of, I prefer my simple Gnome Desktop that lets me surf the web, instant message and word process...

joshrobinson
June 2nd, 2006, 04:49 AM
The average Joe user isn't going to know how to tweak video drivers whether it's Linux or Windows. Joe user usually can't even change the resolution or even understands what that is. I'm still surprised when I help someone out with their computer and they have a nice big monitor set at 800x640. To them that's the way it came up and they had a picture, so they figured that was how it was suppose to look.

As for me, I'm going to wait at least a month before I upgrade my main desktop to Dapper. I just installed it on a test machine I have at work last week. I'll wait and see how things go. Right now I'm happy with my Breezy system.

.

haha thats a very good point about the average user not knowing about resolution, ive actually run into that plenty of times on other peoples computer, and they thank you after turning it up a notch or 2

flar
June 2nd, 2006, 05:01 AM
I know average users are quite ignorant. But again, to use one example, I seriously doubt you would ever have to tweak the video drivers to run openoffice on a windows system. To make matters worse, clicking on the openoffice icon did not even produce an error message, or any response at all. I only know that it didn't work because of the ati drivers because I opened a terminal and started it that way so I could see the error. Now that is a serious problem!

joshrobinson
June 2nd, 2006, 05:04 AM
I know average users are quite ignorant. But again, to use one example, I seriously doubt you would ever have to tweak the video drivers to run openoffice on a windows system. To make matters worse, clicking on the openoffice icon did not even produce an error message, or any response at all. I only know that it didn't work because of the ati drivers because I opened a terminal and started it that way so I could see the error. Now that is a serious problem!

yeah, but there is alot of serious problems with the ati fglrx driver... it gives me headaches all the time.. we all really need to complain to them

caldevil
June 2nd, 2006, 05:18 AM
I have been shouting hard on lauchpad that we need to get back to the previous ATI drivers. The new one may be working better on some of the newer cards but it break down on R200 series of cards which are still being used by lot of people particularly on laptops including many dell and IBM laptops. People who gonna try ubuntu on these computers would get turned off by ubuntu instantly.

lapsey
June 2nd, 2006, 05:18 AM
i don't know what everyone here is complaining about.

it took me less than 2 minutes to install the latest nvidia drivers and get everything working without a problem.

Dapper is ready for the masses providing their hardware is supported, which can easily be tested using a Live CD.

Seriously, just because people are saying it's the best looking up to date linux distro (which it is) doesn't mean it will somehow keep your machine functioning after it has been thrown in a bathtub.

flar
June 2nd, 2006, 05:42 AM
i don't know what everyone here is complaining about.

it took me less than 2 minutes to install the latest nvidia drivers and get everything working without a problem.

Dapper is ready for the masses providing their hardware is supported, which can easily be tested using a Live CD.

Seriously, just because people are saying it's the best looking up to date linux distro (which it is) doesn't mean it will somehow keep your machine functioning after it has been thrown in a bathtub.

Dapper installed quickly and easily on all my machines too, and it detected my hardware well, and it required little tweaking and configuring to get up and running. These are all reasons I think Ubuntu is great. I don't expect it to be perfect, it just seems that a lot of bad things have been happening lately (at least on my installs), when as the official release approaches, things should be getting really tight, if your goal is to appeal to new users.

moopere
June 2nd, 2006, 05:46 AM
I have been shouting hard on lauchpad that we need to get back to the previous ATI drivers. The new one may be working better on some of the newer cards but it break down on R200 series of cards which are still being used by lot of people particularly on laptops including many dell and IBM laptops. People who gonna try ubuntu on these computers would get turned off by ubuntu instantly.

Goodness me, constant noise from ATI owners. I don't own an ATI in a modern box, so I shouldn't comment, but I will :) Seems to me that if the closed source 'binary blob' drivers from ATI cause so much grief then ppl should stop using them.

Maybe a valid response from Ubuntu would be to preselect the VESA driver for detected ATI cards?

If the binary blob driver is crap then ATI owners would have cause to get back to ATI about that - I can't see how this is anything to do with Ubuntu.

The state of 3D supported performance cards (basically ATI and Nvidia now) is woeful, nothing open source _and_ high performance, however, I've chosen Nvidia based products for years now based on their support (such as it is) for Linux and have to say that even though I might disagree with using a binary blob the nvidia drivers have worked pretty well.

Dapper has problems for me as a network administrator trying to force feed it into a corporate environment, but for others not so cursed if your only real complaint boils down to crap ATI support (from ATI) then the subject line should read more like "ATI 3D cards not ready for the Linux using masses" and such a thread should be posted on the ATI support forums.

Cheers,
Craig

flar
June 2nd, 2006, 05:53 AM
I'm not complaining about my ati card, it has actually worked fine over the years (this is the first trouble I've had with it on Ubuntu), if I had that much trouble I would have spent $50 on an nvidia FX5200. I was just using fglrx as one example of major problems close to the release, that had never been problems before.

mattisking
June 2nd, 2006, 06:08 AM
If the binary blob driver is crap then ATI owners would have cause to get back to ATI about that - I can't see how this is anything to do with Ubuntu.


The issue for Ubuntu (as far as ATI and applications go) is that these applications crashing should have popped up Bug-Buddy. There should have been some kind of error message... somewhere. (I had the same problem with my 9200)

mattisking
June 2nd, 2006, 06:11 AM
flar, Have you considered backing up your data and doing a clean install? That's the thing with Linux... no matter how much effort the packagers go to handle the upgrade process of a package, there will always be some crazy hack you made ages ago that you completely forgot about to get around some problem... that the upgrade process doesn't know how to deal with and the ultimate result is a system that is gradually more and more screwed up. (Windows DLL Hell? Sorta)

moopere
June 2nd, 2006, 06:14 AM
The issue for Ubuntu (as far as ATI and applications go) is that these applications crashing should have popped up Bug-Buddy. There should have been some kind of error message... somewhere. (I had the same problem with my 9200)


I'm not sure, but I think this might be a symptom of using (any) binary blob. I'm pretty sure I've heard Daniel S complaining about this in relation to ATI & Nvidia binary drivers.

Cheers,
Craig

flar
June 2nd, 2006, 06:22 AM
flar, Have you considered backing up your data and doing a clean install?

I will be doing a reinstall on my main desktop soon--I usually reinstall this box twice a year anyway. It was a fresh dapper install to begin with. The upgrade procedure works really well though. I upgraded from breezy to dapper on my office and multimedia computers without a hitch and the office computer runs the best of the three despite being originally a hoary install.

remusus
June 2nd, 2006, 06:23 AM
For my Radeon 9200 I've actually stopped bothering trying to get fglrx to work, with the open source "radeon" driver without tweaking I get similar performance and with a bit of tweaking I get better performance.

The latest fglrx drivers completely break my card anyway. Most people who would try to install the proprietary drivers would probably also know how to tweak things a bit anyway.

moopere
June 2nd, 2006, 06:26 AM
I'm not complaining about my ati card, it has actually worked fine over the years (this is the first trouble I've had with it on Ubuntu), if I had that much trouble I would have spent $50 on an nvidia FX5200. I was just using fglrx as one example of major problems close to the release, that had never been problems before.

I guess this is a tough call for integrators, particularly so for long term supported distributions. Do you go with an older driver that _might_ give old card owners less problems but in so doing cut out all current card owners or do you go with the latest and greatest from the company that actually makes the cards and wear the risk of older card owners being unhappy?

How do you measure either?

Presumably the numbers of 'current' card owners will increase for the next little while, whilst 'older' card owners will steadily decrease over time.

Give the timeframe for support of this version of Ubuntu I'd suggest the both
'current' and 'older' card owner numbers will decrease rapidly as we approach year 4 and 5 of the support cycle.

The correct answer of course is to have good support for legacy and new product - but I can't see how this is possible with only manufacturer provided binary drivers to work with.

Cheers,
Craig

blakamin
June 2nd, 2006, 06:29 AM
Goodness me, constant noise from ATI owners.

If the binary blob driver is crap then ATI owners would have cause to get back to ATI about that - I can't see how this is anything to do with Ubuntu.



Yup... and if Dapper was released 2.5 years ago when I bought my "bleeding edge" laptop, I might have opted for Nvidia... but that's not the case... anything over 1.5 years old is likely to have either ATI (as they were the main mobile graphics grunt machines) or onboard intel.

As it is, ATI hasn't been helping anyone with a mobile driver for windows let alone linux until recently!

Funnily enough, I had no problems in flight 7 or breezy but now my "fireworks" screensaver sux...

I dont care very much but when you put your "2 bits" in, like you have when you have no modern ATI gear, it tends to get up my nose....

:???:


nothing personal....

moopere
June 2nd, 2006, 06:51 AM
Yup... and if Dapper was released 2.5 years ago when I bought my "bleeding edge" laptop, I might have opted for Nvidia... but that's not the case... anything over 1.5 years old is likely to have either ATI (as they were the main mobile graphics grunt machines) or onboard intel.

As it is, ATI hasn't been helping anyone with a mobile driver for windows let alone linux until recently!

Funnily enough, I had no problems in flight 7 or breezy but now my "fireworks" screensaver sux...

I dont care very much but when you put your "2 bits" in, like you have when you have no modern ATI gear, it tends to get up my nose....

:???:

nothing personal....

Nothing offensive said, no offence taken :)

The reason I added the 'no modern ati' gear note to my original email is because it has been well known for a number of years (well in excess of 5) that Linux (and even Windows) support for ATI products from ATI has been extremely poor.

Look on any ATI forum, the most common 'remedy' a few years ago from ATI for buggy drivers was to buy a replacement 'currently supported' product, which then of course had its own set of problems and was soon replaced by yet another new product and so on and so forth.

The ATI view in relation to notebooks appears to have been, and still is to a large degree, one of:

you bought the laptop with Windows XP on it and a driver that worked (to some degree) with XP. We do not support that particular ATI chipset on any new version of Windows and certainly not on any OS that isn't windows.

People such as myself learned this early when the migration from Win95/NT/98 to Win2K and then XP started to happen and the full extent of ATI's apathy became clear.

I bought a cutting edge laptop more than 3 years ago, has an nvidia 440go in it (Dell 8200). Its as easy/hard now as its ever been, in Australia at least, to get nvidia based laptops - most are ATI as you say.

Whilst I have sympathy with your point of view, you bought 2.5 years ago, probably were using Windows at that time and maybe didn't have an interest/knowledge of linux, I can't understand how you expect Ubuntu to do anything about the issue of not enough tech specs from ATI to build a good/high performance free driver yet getting crap support in binary form from the OEM...

Frustrating yes, but what can be done?

Cheers,
Craig

BobSongs
June 2nd, 2006, 07:07 AM
My friend googleninja said when Breezy was being prepared for launch the number of daily updates was crazy.

Here's how I see it. The release date was promised to be June 1st. June 1st has arrived and the download frenzy has begun.

Some folks want cutting edge. Others, like me, are quite comfortable with Breezy. It does what I need. And for the moment I believe that's sufficient.

In about a month or so I'll consider a wipe and an install of Drake. But I'm in no hurry. I'll let the eager beavers complete the testing while I continue to use a stable environment.

My PC is a workhorse. Art, music, web-page editing, etc., etc. I don't need it to be wonky and broken here and there. I'm sure many others feel the same way. Eventually, when many of the cracks are sealed, we'll all be aboard. Until then there's really no rush for me to leave this part of the pool. :cool:

caldevil
June 2nd, 2006, 07:14 AM
For my Radeon 9200 I've actually stopped bothering trying to get fglrx to work, with the open source "radeon" driver without tweaking I get similar performance and with a bit of tweaking I get better performance.

The latest fglrx drivers completely break my card anyway. Most people who would try to install the proprietary drivers would probably also know how to tweak things a bit anyway.
Where can I get radeon for ubuntu? I was using radeon on my fedora box but can't seem to get radeon for ubuntu. Is there any deb file or do I need to compile it?

blakamin
June 2nd, 2006, 07:19 AM
Nothing offensive said, no offence taken :)


Whilst I have sympathy with your point of view, you bought 2.5 years ago, probably were using Windows at that time and maybe didn't have an interest/knowledge of linux, I can't understand how you expect Ubuntu to do anything about the issue of not enough tech specs from ATI to build a good/high performance free driver yet getting crap support in binary form from the OEM...

Frustrating yes, but what can be done?

Cheers,
Craig
You're totally right... it sux...

And oneday, ATI might pull an early "linksys" and release some decent code!](*,)


been a linux geek on and off for 8 years!

What part of my homeland are you in ( i'm a melbournite)



Where can I get radeon for ubuntu? I was using radeon on my fedora box but can't seem to get radeon for ubuntu. Is there any deb file or do I need to compile it?


"Radeon" should be there... just change your xorg.conf... mind you, that slowed my system down!


:edit: be back soon... doing a re-install over my old, old partition for the space!

lapsey
June 2nd, 2006, 07:25 AM
gotta love those inflammatory titles :)

polo_step
June 2nd, 2006, 07:37 AM
if I had that much trouble I would have spent $50 on an nvidia FX5200.
I've gotten not one, but TWO of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.asp?Image=14%2D130%2D210%2D06%2Ejpg%2C14 %2D130%2D210%2D07%2Ejpg%2C14%2D130%2D210%2D08%2Ejp g%2C14%2D130%2D210%2D12%2Ejpg&CurImage=14%2D130%2D210%2D06%2Ejpg&Description=eVGA+128%2DA8%2DN303%2DL2+Geforce+FX52 00+128MB+DDR+AGP+4X%2F8X+Low+Profile+Video+Card+%2 D+Retail) for free (US$0.00) after rebates and they work great in Linux systems.

polo_step
June 2nd, 2006, 07:46 AM
it took me less than 2 minutes to install the latest nvidia drivers and get everything working without a problem.

I have to say that it appears to install stuff I never expected to see work and didn't in previous releases.

That said, ever since I've been messing with Linux, people have told me to steer completely clear of ATI video cards.

joshrobinson
June 2nd, 2006, 07:57 AM
I have to say that it appears to install stuff I never expected to see work and didn't in previous releases.

That said, ever since I've been messing with Linux, people have told me to steer completely clear of ATI video cards.

yeap.. they are a pain in the balls

der_joachim
June 2nd, 2006, 08:50 AM
My point is that I'm a bit worried that with all the hype and expectations surrounding the new Ubuntu, a lot of people are going to try Ubuntu and get a bad impression of not just Ubuntu, but linux in general. It's been frustrating enough for me that I'm considering switching to another distro. Being experienced with linux, I'm able to deal with these problems as they come, but many people would simply give up in frustration and go back to Windows XP and tell their friends that linux is a hassle. Perhaps with Breezy and Hoary I became complacent and started to think that the days of linux being a hassle were over, but maybe not.

What's going on? Is Ubuntu getting too bloated? Is there too much focus on eye candy or ease of use?

What do YOU think?

I do not think that linux is ready for the unwashed masses. Not only Ubuntu and its ilk, but the entire Linux family. Heck, even XP is not suited for several types of users (like the 0:00 flasher mobs). The unwashed masses who just keep clicking every attachment in their E-mail and who keep using a piece of excrement from 2001 as their main browser should not install and configure a linux desktop themselves.
That being said, I think that everybody with a decent knowledge of computers and software should be able to install, configure and use a linux desktop.

Anyhoo, back on topic: please give the guys and gals at Canonical a bit of credit. The new version has only been out for one day. Of course there are still bugs. Breezy had a KDE version, which had no HAL compiled in IIRC. Two days later, that was fixed. Just wait a month and most issues will probably be solved.

As for Ubuntu being too bloated: well nobody forces you to use the latest eye candy. Furthermore, Dapper feels faster than its predecessors, even with a fully pimped KDE desktop. :) I can't say that about XP versus 2000.

JediLow
June 2nd, 2006, 09:54 AM
Here's the perspective of someone who read the article on /. and decided to download Dapper and finally stop putting off switching over to Linux.

If I was an average user, my experience so far would not have me using Dapper at all - its been tough to get it running. First off, looking around Ubuntu's website I really couldn't find what were the minimum requirements needed to run Dapper (there's the Hardware Support page, but it doesn't tell you much... and it'd be useless if you didn't know much about computers). My PC is an AMD64 3700+/GeForce 6800GS/Asus WL-160g Wireless adaptor... when I first ran the Live CD I had huge video corruption errors (it would boot up fine outside of that) due to some resolution issues (default is set to VGA... which apparently doesn't work correctly). I had to switch the resolution in the Live boot setup so I could see whats happening, but then when I got into Dapper I didn't have a mouse cursor (I later tried and it worked with the safe video settings... which I probably should've done instead of tweaking the resolution).

Once getting into Dapper itself (which I really like), I had to find out how to unmount and then remount my Windows/NTFS drive/partition so that I could access those files... and now I'm trying to find a way to get my wireless working.


As far as the average user switching, based off my experience it'd be near impossible... though I'm pretty sure once they got running on it that they'd do well. What I'm planning on doing with Dapper (provided I can get all the kinks worked out) is installing it on some computers that people have me fix regularly (think: kids that'll run anything...) to keep those systems out of trouble.

henriquemaia
June 2nd, 2006, 10:57 AM
My experience is totally different from what the title suggests. I have 2 pcs. On both, Dapper have excelled my best expectations. My girlfriend uses one of the computers and she too is very well impressed and her opinion is a nice proof for me that Dapper is great, since she doesn't like computers and just want them to work. Her comments on Dapper were: looks nicer, it's faster and... hibernates (those are the things most obvious for her).

wanger123
June 3rd, 2006, 02:06 AM
Way too many probs with Dapper for me. I was also getting pissed off that really fundamental/intrinsic problems were not being fixed.

I have finally voted with my feet after 2 years with ubuntu and have installed PCLinuxOS 0.92. This distro ROCKS. Heaps more default packages installed (see here a brief list here: http://www.pclinuxonline.com/wiki/Applications) everything works out of the box on my Dell 9300 lappy (except the usual SD reader) and more importantly, the ATI driver 8.25.18 works flawlessly. Now I can reboot, shutdown and logout without probs.

I am well happy:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Everyone should give it a try and see what you think

cheers

wanger123

polo_step
June 3rd, 2006, 05:29 AM
Originally Posted by flar
My point is that I'm a bit worried that with all the hype and expectations surrounding the new Ubuntu, a lot of people are going to try Ubuntu and get a bad impression of not just Ubuntu, but linux in general.

That's why I have always disparaged this whole business of "promoting," advertising and fanboy-hyping Ubuntu or Linux to the general public. It's counterproductive, because the experience of a person finding (at the McDonald's, right? :mrgreen: ) and installing an Ubuntu CD cold is probably not going to be great -- and possibly catastrophic to his existing system.

Development and debugging are ultimately the best promotion there is. The rest will take care of itself. If and when Ubuntu (or desktop Linux) is ever ready, it'll take off. In the meantime, a little cautious promotion among more computer-savvy friends is plenty.

I think that the arrival of Vista is going to be a huge opening for alternative operating systems as more experienced people find their machines instantly obsolete in reference to the new Windows product. If the top four or five desktop Linux distributions would just be ready for that window of opportunity, it'd be great.

BoyOfDestiny
June 3rd, 2006, 05:42 AM
The latest problem I'm having is with the ATI drivers and my Radeon 9200. I was able to fix that problem, but the average user would have been lost, and probably put off by linux altogether when they couldn't use OpenOffice or any 3D apps.


Well, for startes I can vouch the open source drivers (which are out of the box) work great with an ati 9200.

If you had an old xorg.conf that might have been causing issues. The default "ati" gives you DRI.

As for not being able to use open office which isn't 3D? What are you talking about...?

flar
June 3rd, 2006, 06:27 AM
If you had an old xorg.conf that might have been causing issues. The default "ati" gives you DRI.

As for not being able to use open office which isn't 3D? What are you talking about...?


The problem I had showed up in these forums..it wasn't just me, it was experienced by many people with older radeons.
OpenOffice really didn't work because of that problem and neither did anything running under wine, all failing silently.

BoyOfDestiny
June 3rd, 2006, 07:31 AM
The problem I had showed up in these forums..it wasn't just me, it was experienced by many people with older radeons.
OpenOffice really didn't work because of that problem and neither did anything running under wine, all failing silently.

Could you point me to the forum posts on this? (sorry if it's a lot of trouble, I didn't find it searching for radeon, or through your recent posts...)

I have an ati based 9250, and an ati 9200 on another box (that was switched from breezy to dapper just recently...) Just curious about it.like what architecture it is, etc...

flar
June 3rd, 2006, 07:44 AM
@BoyOfDestiny

I have a 9200. Here's the link to the post:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=185033 (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=185033&highlight=fglrx+API+ERROR%3A+register+entrypoint)

bobbymcsteels
June 3rd, 2006, 08:53 AM
personally I too am disapionted with dapper at the moment.... I have tried it a couple of times over the last couple of months and run into various problems... problems that I havent run in to in my breezy, I understand that it is still early days with dapper, but I installed breezy in dec 05 and used it for 5 months straight without a major problem and was completely impressed with what the ubuntu team had accomplished, I had tried warty a while ago and was put off... simply because I was a semi-novice/noob-ish kinda and there was a lot things that needed fixing.... and windows was the easy way round that, but in that 5 months I had used my windows twice I think and the last time I had to download a nearly 100mb update. But now I have dapper on my machine I have gone back to windows at the moment.... even using it right now.

The point I am trying to say is From 1 install of breezy lasted 5 months.... probably longer but I decided to upgrade with a fresh install without a single stability problem.
Where as Dapper has lasted less than 12 hours without 3/4 of the apps I had in breezy, and is completely unuseable, unstable and very very slow(compaired to breezy).

Sorry if I offend or annoy anyone with this but I am a ubuntu user and this is a ubuntu forum.
Thanks

givré
June 3rd, 2006, 09:45 AM
Where as Dapper has lasted less than 12 hours without 3/4 of the apps I had in breezy, and is completely unuseable, unstable and very very slow(compaired to breezy).

What is unuseable, unstabe...
What kind of problems did you encounter.
Did you try to do a fresh install (it resolve lots of thing for breezy users)

We could solve your problems if you tell us a bit more

Thanks

BoyOfDestiny
June 3rd, 2006, 09:48 AM
@BoyOfDestiny

I have a 9200. Here's the link to the post:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=185033 (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=185033&highlight=fglrx+API+ERROR%3A+register+entrypoint)

Well there ya go, fglrx.

As I said, out of the box (with lower end ati cards like ours), you get 3d with the open source ati driver. So the average users wouldn't run into this. They try a 3d app, and it would work just fine.

Although granted it's not good that fglrx is broken, it is a closed driver, so it happens. :(

bobbymcsteels
June 3rd, 2006, 10:48 AM
What is unuseable, unstabe...
What kind of problems did you encounter.
Did you try to do a fresh install (it resolve lots of thing for breezy users)

We could solve your problems if you tell us a bit more

Thanks

It was a fresh install, the whole point of my rant was that after 12 hrs of not really doin too much with it my dapper it got screwed up, where as if I installed breezy, it would still be goin strong and not frustrating me, ie problem free.

givré
June 3rd, 2006, 11:00 AM
It was a fresh install, the whole point of my rant was that after 12 hrs of not really doin too much with it my dapper it got screwed up, where as if I installed breezy, it would still be goin strong and not frustrating me, ie problem free.
So you are speeking about feeling. I understand your point, but i think when you install a linux os you will always encounter some problem (typically hardware problem, i don't know why :cool: (thank you so much microsoft))
It is why we are here in the forum or on irc to help people solving there problems. Don't hesitate to do it

tseliot
June 3rd, 2006, 11:35 AM
I'm moving this thread to the Ubuntu Cafe and I have edited the title (so as to avoid misunderstandings and flamewars).

egon spengler
June 4th, 2006, 06:05 AM
What's going on? Is Ubuntu getting too bloated? Is there too much focus on eye candy or ease of use?

Does "ubuntu gettiing too bloated" even mean anything? I really think bloat is such an empty phrase, some evidence is in this very thread where a fellow users agrees that Dapper is too unsable. The solution? Install Pclinux which is better because it comes with even more software than Dapper. I guess that guy would tell you that Dapper ain't bloated enough.

As far as there being too much eye candy, I don't use ubuntu so someone fill me in, what eye candy is there? I just assumed it was basically a standard Gnome installation.

Really though if you've been using uuntu since the Warty days I would have thought you would known that early adoption is a hassle filled road. I know that Hoary to Breezy was rocky for many of those who upgraded straight away and I would assume that Warty to Hoary was similar. Why would this time be any different?

K.Mandla
June 4th, 2006, 08:19 AM
Is Dapper ready for the masses?

Gee, I don't know. Let me go ask my mom (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=156175).

isotonic
June 4th, 2006, 06:07 PM
.