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invitro
March 7th, 2005, 09:21 PM
I'm just interested in hearing your opinions on the ClearLooks theme that has gotten a lot of attention lately. What do you think about it? Is it better/worse than Industrial/Indubstrial? Do you want it to be the new default in Ubuntu?

Personally, I think it's better than Indubstrial (which I used up until only last week or so). I like that the buttons feel more "defined", and that they don't screw some app's layout up, like Indubstrial does. Another reason is that I find Industrial's colors a bit too pale and white.
The only thing I kinda dislike about it is that the menubar's background is a bit dark, and looks like it's pushed in to the panel.

As you might have guessed, I think that ClearLooks should be adopted by Ubuntu, with some tweaking of the colors to match Ubuntu's profile.

- Viktor

Jad
March 7th, 2005, 10:17 PM
I didn't like it.

eternity
March 7th, 2005, 10:41 PM
I think it's quite nice. I really like the colors, the metacity theme looks great and the borders around menus is very nice.

It has some drawbacks though, I think it's way too much bevel effects, for example when hovering over a menu item. The gradient colors in toolbars etc is a little too much, I think it gives a less proffessional feel.

Shambler
March 7th, 2005, 10:46 PM
Imho, it is the best looking engine/theme so far. Let's make it default!

ember
March 7th, 2005, 11:04 PM
I prefer it to Industrial, it just "feels" a little bit better. But I don't mind installing it afterwards.

psychic
March 7th, 2005, 11:17 PM
I prefer it to Industrial, it just "feels" a little bit better. But I don't mind installing it afterwards.
I like industrial better. but perhaps that will change someday.

Spark*
March 8th, 2005, 02:58 AM
I think it's quite nice. I really like the colors, the metacity theme looks great and the borders around menus is very nice.

It has some drawbacks though, I think it's way too much bevel effects, for example when hovering over a menu item. The gradient colors in toolbars etc is a little too much, I think it gives a less proffessional feel.
There's some good feedback here, we really need more of this. For example you say the gradients are too much, previously the only feedback we got was that it was too less... So after much hesitation, we decided to bump the gradients up a tad and see how users will react to it. Nobody even noticed it... until now. So as you can see, without feedback we are stranded. :)

The menu item hovering effect will most likely become a gtkrc option soon and we might switch to a flat look by default (I personally also prefer a flat look, Richard doesn't but he would have no problems with making it the default).

The menuborder is already optional BTW, so it could easily be removed by putting sunkenmenubar=0 in the theme rc (I don't suggest this though).

invitro
March 8th, 2005, 12:47 PM
There's some good feedback here, we really need more of this. For example you say the gradients are too much, previously the only feedback we got was that it was too less... So after much hesitation, we decided to bump the gradients up a tad and see how users will react to it. Nobody even noticed it... until now. So as you can see, without feedback we are stranded. :)

The menu item hovering effect will most likely become a gtkrc option soon and we might switch to a flat look by default (I personally also prefer a flat look, Richard doesn't but he would have no problems with making it the default).

The menuborder is already optional BTW, so it could easily be removed by putting sunkenmenubar=0 in the theme rc (I don't suggest this though).
Spark*: I agree that the hover effect of menu items should be a bit flatter (not completely flat though). Another thing that I think would make the theme better is some sort of hover effect on the items in a menu bar. Just a very subtle one, just some sort of highlighting.

I just disabled sunkenmenubar, but I realize that I've gotten kinda used to it. I'll probably change it back right now :D

HungSquirrel
March 8th, 2005, 12:50 PM
I love the engine, and I love bvc's themes for it.

kahping
March 8th, 2005, 12:56 PM
i'm using it, and i love it.

i would prefer the menu hover to be flatter than the way it is now, though.

kahping

Poldi
March 8th, 2005, 01:13 PM
too many gradients for me. while there is a lot grey all around, it feels as if several ui elements take their gradients from different palettes one 'warm grey' and one 'cold grey'. well, I cannot describe it better so I better stop.

anyway. the best themes for Gnome IMHO are SmoothGnome and Office (from UserLinux). anything like those two presents 'typical Gnomish' for me and is elegant, readable and simple. SmoothGnome with a different Icon-theme (Etikette) does fit very well to the Ubuntu-colors and style.

kind regards,
Carsten

WorLord
March 8th, 2005, 04:58 PM
Clearlooks is certainly the most useful theme I've seen for Gnome yet. Its fast, attractive, very clean looking, and I can tell very quickly, at a glance, the status of things (whereas the bleached/faded look of the Industrial scroll- and progress-bars (for example) are almost so washed out that sometimes I have to concentrate to figure out where I am with tasks or scrolling).

I really wish it could become the default widget set/Metacity theme.

landotter
March 8th, 2005, 05:25 PM
the thing that gets criticised the most: clearlooks having too many colours or bevels, is exactly why I like it. It helps the eye navigate the window. Now those colours and bevels don't have to be a total train wreck like Keramic or Crux, I think Clearlooks is a runaway design success compared to those two.

If you don't like the colours or consider them "unprofessional" then do try a different palette for clearlooks, there are plenty to choose from. It's certainly more elegant than the default XP look. :grin: The old Windows look, I don't consider professional or elegant one bit--it was just ugly. Classic Mac, now that was quite decent.

I especially how it gently but effectively defines active tabs in applications like Firefox, without being distracting.

Clearlooks joins my small cast of favourites: Industrial, SmoothGnome, and Lighthouse Blue.

eternity
March 8th, 2005, 06:06 PM
After using ClearLooks for a while I noticed what I would consider a bug:

http://w1.211.telia.com/~u21116373/Screenshot.png

The windowselector applet has an border around it that makes it look like I am clicking on it.

bvc
March 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
After using ClearLooks for a while I noticed what I would consider a bug: The windowselector applet has an border around it that makes it look like I am clicking on it.what app is that in the screenie?

invitro
March 8th, 2005, 07:17 PM
what app is that in the screenie?

It looks like good old Firefox!

bvc
March 8th, 2005, 07:29 PM
It looks like good old Firefox!
well that's what I thought and originally posted but it's been a long time that I tried galeon. I use epiphany. If it's firefox, and it doesn't do it in gtk apps or browsers then it's a prob with firefox not being a gtk app. Spark* can better explain that though if need be. [EDIT] not that it can't be fixed as long as it doesn't effect gtk apps, but that also would be for Spark* to address. Hmm...so why am I posting :lol: :-&

HungSquirrel
March 8th, 2005, 07:46 PM
It doesn't have to do with the app, it has to do with how the theme renders the applet. He's talking about the Window Selector gnome-panel applet (top-right part of his screencap, with the blue icon). I tested it and I noticed the same thing. When I switch to a non-Clearlooks theme, the applet is rendered 'flat' on the panel. When I go back to Clearlooks, it looks sunken, as if it were a button being clicked on.

invitro
March 8th, 2005, 08:07 PM
It doesn't have to do with the app, it has to do with how the theme renders the applet. He's talking about the Window Selector gnome-panel applet (top-right part of his screencap, with the blue icon). I tested it and I noticed the same thing. When I switch to a non-Clearlooks theme, the applet is rendered 'flat' on the panel. When I go back to Clearlooks, it looks sunken, as if it were a button being clicked on.

Well, to give the devs a clue: I thought it looked just like the sunken menu bar, so I disabled it in the gtkrc and then it disappeared and looked normal. It has to be considered a bug, right?

bvc
March 8th, 2005, 08:07 PM
oh...
...he did say applet didn't he? Sorry!
like I said...why am I posting? :-#

Pimpf
March 8th, 2005, 08:12 PM
What is this fuzz all about? :roll:
After all it's just a theme - default or not. How many of us are using the theme which is default one. If it's going to be default - fine, I'll change it anyway. Though I have to admit it looks quite clear and sharp :wink:

macewan
March 8th, 2005, 11:38 PM
http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=21377

mmm, clearlooks-indubstrial

Spark*
March 9th, 2005, 08:19 AM
What is this fuzz all about? :roll:
After all it's just a theme - default or not. How many of us are using the theme which is default one. If it's going to be default - fine, I'll change it anyway. Though I have to admit it looks quite clear and sharp :wink:
Because defaults matter. This is especially true for a theme, which is a huge part of the first impression and visible on most screenshots. Also I'd argue that in case of Ubuntu, _many_ people are using the default look. I'd still do it, if Industrial wouldn't lack so much definition... I just can't use Industrial for several monthes straight, unlike Bluecurve or now Clearlooks.
Personally I'd love Ubuntu to look great out of the box, wheither it's using Clearlooks or something different.

About the panel applet, that's not technically a bug, it's a missing workaround. We already applied this workaround to the panel main menu, otherwise you'd see the menu border around it. We still have to find out how we can identify that applet in the engine (or that it's running in a gnome panel). This isn't so easy because the applet is running out-of-process. Hints would be welcome, especially how to get to the console output of the applet (I'm sure that's trivial, I just don't know).

J. S. Jackson
March 9th, 2005, 10:10 AM
I agree completely with spark. Defaults do make a important first impression... and the Clearlooks Human theme is a rather dramatic improvement over the old one.

That, and the font autohinter make such a difference, it's very striking.

I've seen quite a few distos, and nearly all of them look absolutely ugly with defaults. (I guess that's what happens when technical people, and not artists make decisions on these matters.) This is one way Ubuntu can stand above the crowd.

zorba64
March 9th, 2005, 11:04 AM
I installed it and like over other themes I have used recently.
Previously my favourite was Industrial Mist.

I am a kubuntu user, but I have gnome/gtk2 apps configured to use it under kde.

Works for me.

Michael

nrgtek
March 11th, 2005, 07:51 PM
OK - I can't get clearlooks .4 installed for the life of me. I tried:

./configure
make
make install
also:

./configure --prefix=/usr/share/themes
make
make install

The install executes fine, exiting with no errors. gnome-theme-manager dosn't show clearlooks in its listing. Anyone have any insight on this one? [-o<

Yukonjack
March 11th, 2005, 07:56 PM
OK - I can't get clearlooks .4 installed for the life of me. I tried:

./configure
make
make install
also:

./configure --prefix=/usr/share/themes
make
make install

The install executes fine, exiting with no errors. gnome-theme-manager dosn't show clearlooks in its listing. Anyone have any insight on this one? [-o<

./configure --prefix=/usr
make
sudo make install

nrgtek
March 11th, 2005, 09:09 PM
great - thanks! =D>

J. S. Jackson
March 12th, 2005, 12:33 PM
Why bother with all that? ;) It's in Hoary Universe! Search for "clearlook" in Synaptic.

kassetra
March 13th, 2005, 11:23 PM
I like that the buttons feel more "defined", and that they don't screw some app's layout up, like Indubstrial does. Another reason is that I find Industrial's colors a bit too pale and white.
The only thing I kinda dislike about it is that the menubar's background is a bit dark, and looks like it's pushed in to the panel.

I've used a bunch of themes over the years, in Gnome, KDE, and Enlightenment... and I think I've finally figured out what I don't like. Which is kind of an achievement after you've bombarded yourself with theme after theme.

For me, on my production machine, I like flat and white-ish widgets with strong borders (called a stroke). If the widgets have just the slightest hint of a gradient, that's fine, but I don't want 3D.

I'm not sure when I discovered this, but I've grown a distaste for any 3D-ish widgets. If it looks sunken or raised, etc, I just don't like it much.

I'm pretty sure that's my preference for bauhaus art coming through. heh. I like rounded, bold outlines and flat objects... which brings me to my conclusions on clearlooks.

I know everyone is raving about it right now, with good reason, it's a very nice engine. bvc has made some of the MOST WONDERFUL color schemes EVER (clearlooks-chocolate, hint hint!), and I love most all of his work in Gnome land... So even though I use clearlooks now because of such wonderful themes, I really, really miss the flatness of Industrial.

Industrial had it's problems (none that I ever noticed until I really paid attention), but I still prefer the clean flat lines, smooth rounded corners, and strong borders.

Spark*
March 14th, 2005, 12:06 AM
Well, Clearlooks was considerably flater on earlier releases. We made the gradients stronger mostly because of user requests, not because we really liked it better. So if this actually wasn't an improvement, then we certainly want to know about it! Of course it's hard to say for sure, but the more opinions we get on this, the better.
I'm surprised that you think Industrial has strong borders though. To me it's clearly the opposite and that has always been my main issue with Industrial. I like strong and well defined borders, like on Bluecurve or Clearlooks (it could be stronger, but our borders are certainly much stronger than those of Industrial, the only exception being the Industrial button that has the default marker, which is very nice).

bvc
March 14th, 2005, 01:09 AM
bvc has made some of the MOST WONDERFUL color schemes EVER (clearlooks-chocolate, hint hint!), and I love most all of his work in Gnome land
Well you requested it ;-)
I changed the name to
Clearlooks-Coffee
and the url has changed as well
http://home.houston.rr.com/bvc/gtk/Clearlooks-Big_Pack-0.4.tar.bz2

removed
Clearlooks-Human
Clearlooks-ChocolateMilk
Clearlooks-Lime
Clearlooks-GONX

added
Clearlooks-Lucidity
Clearlooks-Phacile_blue

kassetra
March 14th, 2005, 01:13 AM
Well you requested it ;-)
I changed the name to
Clearlooks-Coffee
and the url has changed as well
http://home.houston.rr.com/bvc/gtk/Clearlooks-Big_Pack-0.4.tar.bz2


Heh. got the new one. :)

kassetra
March 14th, 2005, 01:20 AM
Well, Clearlooks was considerably flater on earlier releases. We made the gradients stronger mostly because of user requests, not because we really liked it better. So if this actually wasn't an improvement, then we certainly want to know about it! Of course it's hard to say for sure, but the more opinions we get on this, the better.
I'm surprised that you think Industrial has strong borders though. To me it's clearly the opposite and that has always been my main issue with Industrial. I like strong and well defined borders, like on Bluecurve or Clearlooks (it could be stronger, but our borders are certainly much stronger than those of Industrial, the only exception being the Industrial button that has the default marker, which is very nice).

I did notice that it was considerably flatter. I'm sure the change was an improvement for people that no longer liked Industrial or that didn't like Industrial to begin with, no biggie. Myself, I prefer flat...

As far as Industrial having strong borders, that could also have been my tweaking ages ago. I loved the gorilla style icons so much that I probably edited Industrial or something like that to give it stronger borders. I probably also tweaked my themes to match, but I can't remember. I guess I just prefer my Industrial to Clearlooks, even though I use Clearlooks.

I know I'm in the minority though, and most people love clearlooks the way it is. :)

Cybolic
June 10th, 2005, 11:00 AM
I love the smooth look of Clearlooks, but industrial-myst's colour-scheme is the best I've ever come upon - the whole thing with the large border round entry widgets and that all "text-widgets" (entry, list, textview) are darker than the rest of the theme, and also that there is some really strong (and smooth) focusing on the entry widget.
I think it gives a quick and clear overview of an application.

About the increased bevel on the new Clearlooks, I'm mostly for it, and would even go so far as to say that I'd like a bit more on that 1pixel line above buttons - but menuitems are a bit to exaggerated if you ask me.

Does anone know of a theme-creation-program... something that has a test-window or similar that updates when the theme-file(s) does?

bvc
June 10th, 2005, 04:30 PM
clearlooks gone industrial (http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/images/cl_gone_ind.png)

so now we have industrial button widgets, slightly more gradient... nevertheless the same gradient mostly with a white line at the bottom, that doesn't look sunken at all but just a white line under the button widgets

scrollbars, sliders and entry is diff, oh and the line on the tabs...other than that....
clearlooks has gone industrial. If industrial had the same look of its buttons on the scrollbars and sliders, all you'd see is the diff Entry and line on the tab.

0.5 rocks, and is diff
0.6 is either the result and usual gnome devel influences on clearlooks devel or it's an engine made by those that love industrial. So many or most will love the changes I'm sure. I happen to think what set clearlooks aside from the others is how it was so original and yet usable. That's gone now.

On the plus side.....0.6 looks better with darker schemes!

I would like industrial a little if it were more uniform like clearlooks 0.6 so it's a livable merger I guess and probably the most compromising, walking the fence, middle of the road, path to take to make most happy.

I just wanna know....
what is up with the v for a check? been better to leave it...at least it was a check.

Spark*
June 11th, 2005, 03:07 AM
Whatever you may think, any similarities to Industrial are purely coincidental. This is really the last kind of criticism I expected, but then again, I never understood people. ;)

The "v" you are seeing actually is still a check. The old check graphic from Bluecurve was slightly jagged, which especially irritated users on lower resolutions. The new graphic was created by Steven Garrity and I like it a lot. It looks better with a darker color though.

kotatsu
June 11th, 2005, 08:23 PM
Looks great! I love the new menu gradient and the button shading. Not too subtle, not too strong - just about right. The default theme in Ubuntu actually looks tolerable now. I still use my own color schemes, but perhaps Human will scare fewer people away. ;)

Quicksilver is very nice as well.

One problem: the Window Selector applet seems to have regressed to its previous behavior of shading itself according to the sunken menubar setting.

JuanC
January 25th, 2006, 11:50 PM
I like Clear Looks.

Would be Clear Looks for Kubuntu?

mcduck
January 26th, 2006, 09:45 AM
I love clearlooks. I mostly used Industrial themes first, but those bvc's themes made me switch to clearloks cairo :D Then I wanted to modify colors to fit my background pics, and now even that is starting to makse sence so I like clearlooks even more.

But I must say that I haven't used the clearlooks color theme that much, I don't exactly love the default color of widgets. I prefer either something very light or then black.