Gnome 3 fallback mode is great :) How long will it be available?

[JohneG]

I tried gnome 3 awhile ago and while i was very happy with it, not all my computer were powerful enough to run it. I was disappointed by fallback mode at first as it seemed it wasn't very configurable but then i found out you can configure the panels just like before if you press alt while right clicking. I now can have gnome 3 fallback look and feel just like gnome 2. I do however wonder how long will the fallback mode be available? I'm sure they plan on phasing it out? Is it just a transition period that they are planning to use it for until people get computers with graphics cards that are capable of running the full Gnome 3 desktop? Either way, for the time being, it is a way of getting your desktop running just like before and i'm very happy i found out that it is more customizable that i had first thought :) Add in the Gnome tweak tool and it is actually quite customizable :)

[el_koraco]

As long as Gnome 3 is around. They didn't mean to include it at first, but got convinced by all the complaints.

[3Miro]

Development on Metacity and Gnome-panel was going to be abandoned, but this changed and now they are under active development. Gnome 3 fallback is not going anywhere any time soon.

[Dragonbite]

Not all systems can handle the graphic requirement for full Gnome 3 so they have to provide a fallback mode. At first everybody seemed to want Gnome 2 as it, but the fallback mode isn't all that bad.

[kurt18947]

Another option is adding the Xfce desktop packages. Xfce can be made to feel very much like Gnome 2 if you so desire. I'm up to 6 D.E. choices:)



Ubuntu (3D)
Ubuntu (2D)
Gnome (Shell)
Gnome classic
Gnome classic -no effects
Xfce

Who said user choices went away in 11.10?:guitar:

[forrestcupp]

Is it possible to use the Gnome3 fallback mode even if you have a computer powerful enough to run Gnome Shell?

Edit:
I know anything is possible; I guess I should ask do they make it easy?

[cariboo]

Is it possible to use the Gnome3 fallback mode even if you have a computer powerful enough to run Gnome Shell?

Edit:
I know anything is possible; I guess I should ask do they make it easy?

Gnome-session-fallback is in the repositories, all you have to do is install it, then choose it from the menu in lightdm, it couldn't get much easier. See the screenshot.

[forrestcupp]

Gnome-session-fallback is in the repositories, all you have to do is install it, then choose it from the menu in lightdm, it couldn't get much easier. See the screenshot.

Oh, ok. I didn't realize it was the same thing as Gnome Classic. So they're keeping Gnome Classic, then? That's probably a good move.

[ninjaaron]

Oh, ok. I didn't realize it was the same thing as Gnome Classic. So they're keeping Gnome Classic, then? That's probably a good move.

It's not the same thing. Just the same name. The classic enviroment in 11.04 is Gnome 2.x with the panel turned on and the Unity compiz plugin turned off. The "Classic" fallback mode is Gnome3 with a different shell that is similar to the panel. It still doesn't have as many plugins yet.

One is gnome 2, and the other is gnome 3. It's still a huge difference (improvement, I should say). The desktop interface just works very similarly.

[3Miro]

It's not the same thing. Just the same name. The classic enviroment in 11.04 is Gnome 2.x with the panel turned on and the Unity compiz plugin turned off. The "Classic" fallback mode is Gnome3 with a different shell that is similar to the panel. It still doesn't have as many plugins yet.

One is gnome 2, and the other is gnome 3. It's still a huge difference (improvement, I should say). The desktop interface just works very similarly.

The fallback mode in Gnome 3 does use Gnome-panel and Metacity ported to GTK3. Not all applets have been ported yet, but fallback mode is 90% the same as Gnome 2.

[Lucradia]

It's not the same thing. Just the same name. The classic enviroment in 11.04 is Gnome 2.x with the panel turned on and the Unity compiz plugin turned off. The "Classic" fallback mode is Gnome3 with a different shell that is similar to the panel. It still doesn't have as many plugins yet.

One is gnome 2, and the other is gnome 3. It's still a huge difference (improvement, I should say). The desktop interface just works very similarly.


So what's the difference between "Classic" and "Classic (No Effects)"?

Since they're both gnome 3 with a gnome2-like panel.

[ninjaaron]

The fallback mode in Gnome 3 does use Gnome-panel and Metacity ported to GTK3. Not all applets have been ported yet, but fallback mode is 90% the same as Gnome 2.Well, in terms of interface, yes. Gnome 3, however is designed for apps developed with the GTK3 toolkit, which gives developers greater power and flexibility for creating gui software. It's a significant difference, in my opinion, but it will take some time before that difference becomes apparent.


So what's the difference between "Classic" and "Classic (No Effects)"?

Since they're both gnome 3 with a gnome2-like panel.

If we're talking about 'Classic' in 11.04, it's not Gnome 3. 11.04 is 100% Gnome 2.

[Lucradia]

If we're talking about 'Classic' in 11.04, it's not Gnome 3. 11.04 is 100% Gnome 2.

Not sure what this guy's using though: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11309798&postcount=7

[ninjaaron]

Not sure what this guy's using though: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11309798&postcount=7

Looks like 11.10 in a virtual box. I believe the differences between these two have to do with OpenGL options for the window manager. I don't know what those options are, as I'm very satisfied with Unity and Gnome Shell, and haven't felt any need to install the fallback session.

[viperdvman]

Show us a screenshot of your GNOME fallback. Well, post it in the screenshots thread and a link to it here :)

I want to see what you've achieved with the GNOME 3 Fallback :)

[3Miro]

OK, too much confusion ... lets clarify things a little.

Ubuntu 11.04 comes with Gnome 2 and three options: Ubuntu = the new Unity interface, Ubuntu Classic = Gnome-panel + Compiz (same as 10.10), Ubuntu Classic (No Effects) = Gnome-panel + Metacity (same as 10.10 if you disable desktop effects).

The official Gnome 2 comes with Gnome-panel + Metacity, Ubuntu uses Compiz in place of Metacity for extra effects.

The official Gnome 3 comes with Gnome-shell and Gnome-fallback. Gnome-shell is the new Windows Manager and new interface. Gnome-fallback = Gnome-panel + Metacity ported to GTK3. Gnome-fallback interface is the exact same interface as Gnome 2, except some applets may be missing. Both Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 can run GTK3 apps, it is just that Gnome 3 (with Gnome-shell or Gnome-fallback) are better for GTK3. Any advantages that Gnome-fallback can have are entirely in the background.

Ubuntu 11.10 comes with Gnome 3 and Unity 3D interface as default and Unity 2D as fallback. Gnome-shell and Gnome-fallback are available in the Software Center and they appear in the login screen as Gnome something (shell, Classic, Fallback ...)

[wolfen69]

i found out you can configure the panels just like before if you press alt while right clicking. I now can have gnome 3 fallback look and feel just like gnome 2.

This is something a lot of people don't realize. They just want to cry about gnome 2 not being supported anymore instead of actually trying G3 and tweaking it to be like G2.

[ninjaaron]

OK, too much confusion ... lets clarify things a little.

Ubuntu 11.04 comes with Gnome 2 and three options: Ubuntu = the new Unity interface, Ubuntu Classic = Gnome-panel + Compiz (same as 10.10), Ubuntu Classic (No Effects) = Gnome-panel + Metacity (same as 10.10 if you disable desktop effects).

The official Gnome 2 comes with Gnome-panel + Metacity, Ubuntu uses Compiz in place of Metacity for extra effects.

The official Gnome 3 comes with Gnome-shell and Gnome-fallback. Gnome-shell is the new Windows Manager and new interface. Gnome-fallback = Gnome-panel + Metacity ported to GTK3. Gnome-fallback interface is the exact same interface as Gnome 2, except some applets may be missing. Both Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 can run GTK3 apps, it is just that Gnome 3 (with Gnome-shell or Gnome-fallback) are better for GTK3. Any advantages that Gnome-fallback can have are entirely in the background.

Ubuntu 11.10 comes with Gnome 3 and Unity 3D interface as default and Unity 2D as fallback. Gnome-shell and Gnome-fallback are available in the Software Center and they appear in the login screen as Gnome something (shell, Classic, Fallback ...)

Good description, except that Clutter Mutter is the WM for Gnome Shell. Gnome shell is just another UI layer.

[sffvba[e0rt]

Good description, except that Clutter is the WM for Gnome Shell. Gnome shell is just another UI layer.

Clutter or Mutter (to many new terms for me to keep up)...


404

[ninjaaron]

Clutter or Mutter (to many new terms for me to keep up)...


404

I think it's clutter... Uh... I think mutter was the WM for Unity in 10.10 Netbook edition... a mixture of clutter and metacity, I think it was supposed to be.

I'm confused now too.

[edit]
nope you're right. Mutter it is in Gnome 3.

[3Miro]

Good description, except that Clutter Mutter is the WM for Gnome Shell. Gnome shell is just another UI layer.

You are right, however, I think Gnome-shell adds enough to be its own WM. For most practical purposes Gnome-shell is Gnome-shell.

[BrokenKingpin]

Another option is adding the Xfce desktop packages. Xfce can be made to feel very much like Gnome 2 if you so desire. I'm up to 6 D.E. choices:)



Ubuntu (3D)
Ubuntu (2D)
Gnome (Shell)
Gnome classic
Gnome classic -no effects
Xfce

Who said user choices went away in 11.10?:guitar:
What is the point of having 6 DEs installed... or are you just testing them out to see what you like?

[3Miro]

What is the point of having 6 DEs installed... or are you just testing them out to see what you like?

The DEs are only 2, Gnome 3 and XFCE. Unity 2D/3D, Gnome-shell and Gnome-fallback are simply different Windows Managers and User Interfaces.

I have 2 DE on my laptop. I use XFCE on external monitor for work and Unity 3D to use on battery and during travel and especially when I want to show off.

[jbicha]

GNOME Fallback hasn't been discontinued but there are several developers that would like to do so in the future once some form of GNOME Shell works on all graphics hardware. (That's part of the reason why upstream GDM as seen in Fedora doesn't have the option to switch to Fallback. You have to go hunt for the toggle switch in System Settings>System Info>Graphics.) Or maybe since it works and has users, it will just drop from being a Core GNOME app to an extra one that is more loosely supported.

The biggest issue is that I don't know of any GNOME developers that use GNOME Fallback as their primary desktop. Bugfixes and feature additions will be slow.

[cariboo]

Not sure what this guy's using though: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11309798&postcount=7

That's a screenshot of lightdm using:


lightdm --test-mode

[BBQdave]

What is the point of having 6 DEs installed... or are you just testing them out to see what you like?

Fedora 16 will continue to have g3 with fallback mode.

Though why not use Debian6 (Gnome 2.3)? Good stable distro that is supported for awhile yet:D

[LowSky]

Who can't run gnome-shell? My one core Intel atom netbook with poor Intel graphics runs gnome-shell.

[Dustintendo]

my geforce 3 cant run it for long before the screen stops responding, but my netbook runs it fine

[ozone702]

Upgrade to 11.04 really bummed me out. They trashed all my Compiz Configurations, which I didn't have backed up... now I'm struggling to get my desktop behavior back to where it was.

Oh, and why kill Open Office and replace it with LibreOffice? I can see installing Libre on a NEW install, but for God's sakes, leave Open Office alone on upgrades... WTH.

I also had to slow down my Conky load at startup. I had to re-install Mint Menu. And why does Mint Menu load so slow on startup now? In fact, my whole boot process in 11.04 has increased by a magnitude of over 100%. I used to cold boot to a login in 12 seconds, now it takes 30? Come on guys, you're losing me here.

And the last thing I'll say is this. Anyone who says they like Unity, doesn't use a computer. The move to Unity is dumb, dumber, and dumbest.

[3Miro]

Who can't run gnome-shell? My one core Intel atom netbook with poor Intel graphics runs gnome-shell.

Contrary to popular belief, Intel graphics isn't that bad. The fallback mode is necessary for older Intel graphics, older ATI (some of them barely work anyway) and many Nvidia cards cannot get Gnome-shell without the proprietary drivers and this means no graphics to run jockey.

Canonical made a whole WM just to have Unity 2D as a fallback mode to Unity 3D. Fallback is necessary and it will be for a while.

[Dragonbite]

Who can't run gnome-shell? My one core Intel atom netbook with poor Intel graphics runs gnome-shell.

Gnome shell and Unity both will not run on my laptop.

Actually, Ubuntu hasn't given me destkop effects since 9.10. Ubuntu 10.04 booted to a black-screen-of-death; it would just lock up the whole system completely unless you do some tricks. Ubuntu 10.10 and onward has at least booted, but no effects.

OpenSUSE was bit that same year, and has had gotten running without effects a little quicker. The 11.4 version would TRY to use desktop effects but there was a lot of issues with things blanking out, and other problems (works fine once DEs are turned off). I don't know if they have any additional updates to improve this.

Fedora up to 14 actually do give desktop effects (even if can be spotty), but 15 did not. It booted, but did not give the effects. It is probably, currently, the smoothest running on this laptop.

So in answer to who does it not work for, it does not work for me. And your Atom chipped net/notebook is a lot newer than what I have running (Pent M).

[haresear]

Who can't run gnome-shell? My one core Intel atom netbook with poor Intel graphics runs gnome-shell.

Gnome-shell won't run on my AMD 2500+ with Nvidia FX5200 card (nvidia-173 drivers).

[PhilGil]

Who can't run gnome-shell? My one core Intel atom netbook with poor Intel graphics runs gnome-shell.

No Gnome Shell for me, either. On my home computer, I can't enable 3D effects with my Radeon HD 3650 graphics card. When I install the proprietary drivers my computer boots to a frozen black screen. The graphics on my office computer are just too old to run desktop effects.

There's many users that can't or won't run 3D drivers. I hope the Gnome devs don't abandon us.

[wolfen69]

I hope the Gnome devs don't abandon us.

That's why there's fallback mode.

[ozone702]

That's why there's fallback mode.

Unless dingledorf decides to ditch Fallback... Unity stinks.

[kurt18947]

Unless dingledorf decides to ditch Fallback... Unity stinks.

In which case we hope that the Xfce and LXDE people don't lose interest

[cariboo]

Upgrade to 11.04 really bummed me out. They trashed all my Compiz Configurations, which I didn't have backed up... now I'm struggling to get my desktop behavior back to where it was.

Oh, and why kill Open Office and replace it with LibreOffice? I can see installing Libre on a NEW install, but for God's sakes, leave Open Office alone on upgrades... WTH.

I also had to slow down my Conky load at startup. I had to re-install Mint Menu. And why does Mint Menu load so slow on startup now? In fact, my whole boot process in 11.04 has increased by a magnitude of over 100%. I used to cold boot to a login in 12 seconds, now it takes 30? Come on guys, you're losing me here.

And the last thing I'll say is this. Anyone who says they like Unity, doesn't use a computer. The move to Unity is dumb, dumber, and dumbest.

So you don't like Unity, truthfully we don't care, but calling people dumb for using it goes against the forum Code of Conduct.

[Dreamer Fithp Apprentice]

So you don't like Unity, truthfully we don't care, but calling people dumb for using it goes against the forum Code of Conduct.
Actually, although I'll admit the sentence is open to more than one interpretation if you are just LOOKING for an excuse to pout, it seems obvious to me that it is the DEVELOPERS he's implying are being dumb. But if you feel the shoe fits, I'm sure he won't mind if you try it on. Maybe some insensitivity training is in order.

And for what it is worth, I agree with both his assessment of Unity and that the probability of a user liking it will most likely on the average vary inversely with the amount of experience they have using a desktop computer. That isn't an insult but simply a rational estimate of probabilities based on perceptions of cause and effect. It is certainly a reasonable conjecture that a style of UI recently developed primarily to deal with the physical limitations of tablets and phones, is less likely to facilitate the most effective use of a desktop setup than a style of UI that has evolved through a great deal of trial and error FOR desktop setups over a much greater length of time.

Nor would it be surprising if people with more experience working with computers are less likely to be impressed by eyecandy special effects and novelty for novelty's sake that at best contribute nothing to function and in many cases waste system resources to the degree that a more expensive rig will be needed to achieve the same level of functionality, not to mention requiring a waste of the user's time.

In stating what YOU (or "ye" if you prefer archaic pedantry) don't care about, truthfully or otherwise, I think it would be more appropriate to use a singular pronoun and just speak for yourself unless you claim to be speaking for some group of which you are a designated spokesperson. I certainly am not a part of any "we" that you have a right to speak for. On the contrary, I think trying to call people on the carpet for an honest statement of opinion about the direction of development of the software that is the basic topic of these forums is far more offensive and childish than saying that the direction of development is dumb.

[craig10x]

In order to like unity one needs an open mind and the ability to adapt to something different and the patience to get used to something that isn't exactly the same as what one has been using for years...

Some just resist any form of change...makes them feel uncomfortable...so they closed their mind...if you go into using Unity with a negative attitude, of course you won't like it ;)

I didn't think i'd like it when i first tried it and reading all those negative comments didn't help...but i kept an open mind and after about a week i began to really like it a lot...

[cariboo]

Actually, although I'll admit the sentence is open to more than one interpretation if you are just LOOKING for an excuse to pout, it seems obvious to me that it is the DEVELOPERS he's implying are being dumb. But if you feel the shoe fits, I'm sure he won't mind if you try it on. Maybe some insensitivity training is in order.

And for what it is worth, I agree with both his assessment of Unity and that the probability of a user liking it will most likely on the average vary inversely with the amount of experience they have using a desktop computer. That isn't an insult but simply a rational estimate of probabilities based on perceptions of cause and effect. It is certainly a reasonable conjecture that a style of UI recently developed primarily to deal with the physical limitations of tablets and phones, is less likely to facilitate the most effective use of a desktop setup than a style of UI that has evolved through a great deal of trial and error FOR desktop setups over a much greater length of time.

Nor would it be surprising if people with more experience working with computers are less likely to be impressed by eyecandy special effects and novelty for novelty's sake that at best contribute nothing to function and in many cases waste system resources to the degree that a more expensive rig will be needed to achieve the same level of functionality, not to mention requiring a waste of the user's time.

In stating what YOU (or "ye" if you prefer archaic pedantry) don't care about, truthfully or otherwise, I think it would be more appropriate to use a singular pronoun and just speak for yourself unless you claim to be speaking for some group of which you are a designated spokesperson. I certainly am not a part of any "we" that you have a right to speak for. On the contrary, I think trying to call people on the carpet for an honest statement of opinion about the direction of development of the software that is the basic topic of these forums is far more offensive and childish than saying that the direction of development is dumb.

This is a community if you haven't noticed yet, I'd suggest you read the forum Code of Conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy), as you obviously didn't, when you agreed to it when you create your account, especially this part:


The purpose of the Ubuntu Forums is to provide support for Ubuntu. We also want this to be a place where community can develop and we can enjoy one another's company. To achieve this, we strive to maintain an atmosphere that can be enjoyed by all and we ask all members of the community to be respectful at all times. This means please use etiquette and politeness. Treat people with kindness, gentleness and respect. If you do this, the rest of the code of conduct won't need more than a cursory mention.

As I stated earlier, we as a community don't really care if you like or dislike Untiy, there enough desktop environments to satisfy everyone. If Unity doesn't work for you try one of the others, you don't even have to do a complete re-install.

[Linuxisfast]

Actually Unity is quite handy, takes few days to get used to but it works well. I have 10.04LTS on all my desktop while my laptops and netbooks have Unity. I like the convenience of all the programs on desktop and miss that sorely when I am on LTS.

[Dreamer Fithp Apprentice]

As I stated earlier, we as a community don't really care . . .

I have read it and I don't think I'm the one weak on reading comprehension. You are not a "we" and you are in no way entitled to speak for the "community." Many of us DO care and the developers should. Please state your ideas for yourself and quit imputing them to others either as collectives or individuals. Don't hide behind a plural pronoun you aren't entitled to. You attacked ozone702 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=407146) for incivility that was purely in your own imagination. If he can't say he thinks the recent direction of development of the very software that is the topic of these fora is dumb there really isn't much point in having the fora. You don't have to agree with him but there is no point in whining about an imagined insult. Yes, there are other choices of desktop and ways of tweaking gnome panel under gnome 3 to make it more useful, as I, myself, pointed out in some detail in this thread in post #8:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11698572#post11698572

If you like the new default interface, good for you. Some of us do not, as any browsing of this forum will demonstrate. And some of us DO care enough to try to point out to others options the dev's did an extremely poor job of explaining. As programmers Canonical really doesn't have anything to apologize for in oneiric. As communicators, however, I've never seen a worse job of rolling out a new version of existing software. Gnome, arguably should have presented version 3 as a beta until they got the command line interface up to speed and taken a little more care to support their legacy commands so as not to break people's scripts, which many of us have invested considerable time in writing. But that really isn't Canonical's fault. The fact that Canonical has done a poor job of communicating to user's what their options are is evident, not only all over these fora, but all over countless blogs and tech help sites all over the internet. I don't recall any software update that has ever caused as much dismayed outcry and one's head has to be deep in the sand to pretend it doesn't exist.

Straining at gnats to imagine you've been insulted, just because the ozone702 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=407146)'s opinions are different from yours in no way contributes to the civility of the forum. Neither persistently pretending to speak for some collective "we" instead of yourself, pretending to be insulted when you weren't even addressed, nor pretending your concern is about a non-existent rules violation, in any way moderate the fact YOU attacked ozone702, not the other way around. If you don't wish to make a constructive suggestion it would be better to move along to another thread and leave this one to people who DO CARE. I stand by everything I said, most especially that some insensitivity training would seem to be in order for you. This is ALL I will post on the matter as you are clearly spoiling for a fight and looking for an excuse and I have more constructive and far more interesting things to do than oblige you.

[TeamRocket1233c]

Another option is adding the Xfce desktop packages. Xfce can be made to feel very much like Gnome 2 if you so desire. I'm up to 6 D.E. choices:)



Ubuntu (3D)
Ubuntu (2D)
Gnome (Shell)
Gnome classic
Gnome classic -no effects
Xfce

Who said user choices went away in 11.10?:guitar:

Nice! Here's my DE choices:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


GNOME Classic.
GNOME Classic - no effects.
MATE.
Ubuntu (Default).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could always install more, but I'm good with what I got, prefer MATE outta all of them, but installed GNOME Classic as something to fall back on upon the eventual upgrade to Raring Ringtail, so that I could either stick with it, or reinstall MATE, as for Cinnamon, it's great, but the panel looked a little cluttered on my small monitor (15" 4x3 LCD flat panel) and the double-panel configuration like what comes with GNOME Classic or MATE just seems to work better on a monitor of that size, IMO, and to take the sticking with the traditional metaphor even further, in 13.04, I may get rid of Unity in favor of GNOME Classic and MATE.

In addition, might see about redistributing that config as a Ubuntu Classic Remix - modern Ubuntu with two iterations of the classic GNOME 2-style DE included by default: GNOME Classic for those that want GNOME 3, but dislike the GNOME Shell or Unity-style interface, and MATE for those that want straight-up GNOME 2, if you will, unless that was already done, then nvm.

Of course LightDM would be used instead of GDM, and the default DE would be GNOME Classic, and as for advanced tweaks, that's where the Tweak Tool would come in, so it would be included as a default option as well. The whole list of default software to be included with said respin is listed below.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tweak Tool.
Synaptic.
Software Center.
Gparted.
GIMP.
MyPaint.
Inkscape.
Pinta.
Synfig.
Chromium instead of Firefox.
Empathy.
Gwibber (or whatever the 13.04 alternative is).
Xchat.
LibreOffice.
Brasero.
VLC instead of Rhythmbox.
Shotwell.
Freeciv.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now of course the default theme would be Ambiance for GNOME Classic, and whatever for MATE. Default file manager would depend on the DE - Nautilus of course for GNOME Classic, and Caja for MATE.

[TeamRocket1233c]

In which case we hope that the Xfce and LXDE people don't lose interest

There is also MATE.

[wildmanne39]

Thread closed. Please do not post in old threads.