"Free Hardware Movement!"; is it possible?

[SidebySide]

Hi geeks & free software users
Everyone knows about free software (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) movement (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-intro.html) and its history. Todays, we need a fresh blood in our vessels! what can it be?
Let's speak about this idea: Free Hardware Movement!
Does it means?
Is it exist now?
Is it possible?
What's the ideal form?
GNU Is Not Unix <=> GINIA Is Not IBM or Apple or ...

[matt_symes]

As long as you pay for it ;)

Now where is my free dumper truck ?

Please no offense, however this is a pretty daft statement.

[F.G.]

there is an open-source hardware movement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_hardware

my brother went to one of their conferences, it involves sharing the design blue-prints for stuff, so it can be cheaply made locally by people.

I think the idea is still to commercially trade the products though.
hopefully in time (alot if time) people will be able to use these kinds of designs with 3d-printers to truly have free, open source hardware.

[F.G.]

oh yes, also there are movements like freegeek in Portland (USA) and the 'computer kitchen' in santa cruz (USA) which are aimed at selling second-hand computer bits as cheap as possible, in a non-profit way.

[whatthefunk]

I dont think this will go very far. Open source software is supported largely by people who simply enjoy messing around with computers. All that is required to participate in the community is a computer.
Hardware is an entirely different game. How many of you have an ion implantation machine sitting around? An etching device? Diamond saw?

[SidebySide]

oh yes, also there are movements ... which are aimed at selling second-hand computer bits as cheap as possible, in a non-profit way.
Free as freedom! Not related to money.
"Free" here does not mean: gratis, honorary, etc which hint to money/cheap


As long as you pay for itNvidia/ATI graphic cards are free or open source?
can you found your local factory and use ATI technology to produce your graphic card as well as you can change the Gimp sources and circulate your graphical software?


there is an open-source hardware movement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_hardware1. Is it a real revolutionary rebellion? Is it widespread?
2. You know that Open Source is different from Free!

[Copper Bezel]

The best platform for free-as-in-libre hardware would be something like Shuttle's (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Shuttle-Laptop-Motherboards,9396.html) standardized laptop parts. I have no idea how something like this could work commercially, but if you could get a common spec going, you could put as much power in the hands of the consumer as they could reasonably have without manufacturing equipment. Open source hardware can draw engineers into a project (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/23/uncle-sam-wants-design-military-rescue-vehicle/), but someone still has to manufacture it - so there's less incentive for hobbyists and little incentive I could imagine for a manufacturer to develop patents to toss into the public domain. (3D printers only do so much, and they're still prohibitively expensive.)

[davetv]

I have an OpenMoko GTA02 Freerunner phone. That is pretty much open hardware (except for the Calypso GSM Modem inside).

There is a small community, mail-list, wiki, several ready to go desktop/environments. Most run cut down debian as a linux distro.

There is a company involved in developing the next-gen of these phones, the GTA04. These boards are designed to fit into existing GTA02 Freerunner cases and use the display component from the GTA02 to cut costs.

It's well worth a look into the mailing list etc for a description of the triumphs, disappointments and challenges an open hardware project produces.

[F.G.]

so, i think the open source hardware movement is relative young. what i mean referring to 'open-source' freedom of information. so the information involved in the hardware is non-proprietary and free. obviously manufacturing cost money, i guess this will probably always be an issue.

i should perhaps point out that a lot of open-source software projects also charge for products, and are supported by donations, so there is still a financial element.

ps i thought 'gratis' did mean free?

[Lars Noodén]

Open source software is supported largely by people who simply enjoy messing around with computers.

Let's not try to bring that myth back again, let it stay dead. IBM, Google, Volkswagen and many others have been contributing a lot to open source software.

As far as hardware goes, there is a need for open firmware, but some projects and even products are providing it. The Lemote netbooks have open firmware. There are also projects like DD-WRT (http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index) and CHDK (http://chdk.wikia.com).

If you want actual hardware, then the SPARC (http://www.opensparc.net/about.html) architecture is open. It's a lot better than x86 but has been sidelined by the marketing power of the Wintel duopoly. SPARC servers are competitively priced even if the luggables (http://www.gdc4s.com/content/detail.cfm?item=4f9561a4-029e-4df6-ad20-20acca70bd7a) are not. You can get them from Sun/Oracle or Fujitsu.

[Copper Bezel]

ps i thought 'gratis' did mean free?

English doesn't distinguish, so "gratis" and "libre" are often used to clarify. "Gratis" means free monetarily.

OpenMoko is intriguing - thanks for that link, davetv.

[F.G.]

yeah, i love the idea of the OpenMoko Freerunner phone, just been looking at it.
from the look of it it doesn't come cheap though, it seems competitively priced.

[matt_symes]

"Free Hardware Movement!"; is it possible?

@OP. There are at least three definitions of free here posted in this thread so far.

What is your definition of free when it comes to hardware ? After all, somebody at least has to mine the ore.

[F.G.]

"Free Hardware Movement!"; is it possible?

@OP. There are at least three definitions of free here posted in this thread so far.

What is your definition of free when it comes to hardware ? After all, somebody at least has to mine the ore.

I agree.

free in the sense of intellectual property and licencing, and free in a pecuniary sense are quite different.

I mean there are organisations whose main focus is making physical hardware (which may include registered design patents and run on proprietary software) freely available to low income people.

then there are also bearded sandal-wearing hippies who expound the virtues of sharing information and evils of restrictive copyright and IP law, promoting free sharing of design secrets.

[Copper Bezel]

Aw, you left out my definition. = P

[earthpigg]

If I've misunderstood anything, someone please correct me and point me to some documentation or a news article or similar. Based on what I currently understand:

Windows 8 may pose a problem in a new way that previous Windows releases did not.

You can replace classic BIOS with an open implementation and Windows 7, Vista, XP, etc, did not care.

Win8 is going to require that the hardware supports the "secure boot" thing though. It doesn't have to be enabled, but it must be supported. Again, as I understand it.

As I understand it, this may mean that choosing free hardware is choosing for Win8 not to work without a hack of some form.

This could be concerning because it means the potential user base of a "free hardware" motherboard, moving forward, is minuscule.

[Copper Bezel]

Windows 8 will install on anything. It will only ship on devices with secure boot and a Microsoft signing key available, because that's the deal the OEMs have to make to get the license.

[F.G.]

hmm, so is it going to be really difficult to install ubuntu on a secure booted system? will you need the secure key? will live disks no longer work?

[Copper Bezel]

There are topics aplenty on this, and at least two here on UF, but no, that's not really the assumption (as secure boot can ostensibly be bypassed.) That's not why earthpigg was bringing it up, though.

[Thewhistlingwind]

This could be concerning because it means the potential user base of a "free hardware" motherboard, moving forward, is minuscule.

The userbase of a free hardware motherboard is Unix nerds and embedded systems.

To imply any sort of mainstream acceptance at this point in time is sort of silly.

Even at the best case scenario shipments would be to "power" users with gaming rigs.

[Porcini M.]

Here's a case of open-source hardware design by a commercial company:


We offer our storage pod design free of any licensing or any future claims of ownership. Anybody is allowed to use and improve upon it. You may build your own cloud system and use the Backblaze storage pod as part of your solution. The steps to assemble a storage pod, including diagrams, can be found on our original blog post, and an updated list of parts is provided below in Appendix A. We don’t sell the design, so we don’t provide support or a warranty for people who build their own.

http://blog.backblaze.com/2011/07/20/petabytes-on-a-budget-v2-0revealing-more-secrets/

[Copper Bezel]

The userbase of a free hardware motherboard is Unix nerds and embedded systems.

To imply any sort of mainstream acceptance at this point in time is sort of silly.

Even at the best case scenario shipments would be to "power" users with gaming rigs.
No, I honestly think that, as Porcini M.'s support model above illustrates, it would follow exactly the same path as open source software in the commercial world. Modularity and open standards would be as useful in portables in the enterprise world as the modularity that exists in desktops is now. Vendors would use the same standards with proprietary elements layered on in consumer products. Not ideal, and not particularly useful or visible to the consumer, but not an insulated niche industry to feed us geeks, either, anymore than FOSS already is.

[keithpeter]

Hello All

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/28/milkymist/

Breakeven sale around 80 units. Sort of like the cooperative parts buying that some audiophile groups manage.

http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Hackerspaces

Some cities have workshops where you can book in and use expensive machines (at an hourly rate). I used to use a community photographic darkroom many years ago that operated on this basis. It inevitably acted as a meeting place, swap shop, job centre and advice/support group.

Perhaps things will 'loosen up' a bit now with the cheap hardware being produced in small shops in various parts of the world.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/09/the-no-name-companies-selling-more-phones-than-samsung-lg-and-apple-combined/245232/

I'm hopeful of interesting developments. Down with the beige boxen (black being the new beige)

[MG&TL]

The arduino's:

http://arduino.cc/

..blueprints are made freely available.

[earthpigg]

Here's a case of open-source hardware design by a commercial company:

http://blog.backblaze.com/2011/07/20/petabytes-on-a-budget-v2-0revealing-more-secrets/

Very interesting stuff. They've kept their software proprietary, though.

[F.G.]

some really good links going on here.

i really love the idea of modularity, open standards and hardware fabrication at a user end / high street level.

so, for any londoners, here's a london hackerspace based in hackney(suitably). also they do educational lectures and workshops:
https://london.hackspace.org.uk/

[JDShu]

On the graphics front, there's the Open Graphics Project (http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php), but they don't seem active lately and the hardware is decades behind the current technology.

[davetv]

yeah, i love the idea of the OpenMoko Freerunner phone, just been looking at it.
from the look of it it doesn't come cheap though, it seems competitively priced.

Hi F.G. - if you can afford one they are a great tool/toy. I use mine as a day to day phone with little issue running qtMoko as a distro (based on light debian with a qt desktop). I have learnt heaps about phone hardware, how to talk to the hardware and linux in general from playing with mine. They can also be setup to dual boot - flash or micro SD card so you can have a day to day reliable distro in flash (NAND) and experimental distro/data on SD.

[keithpeter]

some really good links going on here.

i really love the idea of modularity, open standards and hardware fabrication at a user end / high street level.

so, for any londoners, here's a london hackerspace based in hackney(suitably). also they do educational lectures and workshops:
https://london.hackspace.org.uk/

That looks ace. I'll look out for any open days/exhibitions (high street fabrication will need to find a market eventually)

In Birmingham UK there is FizzPop who use a gallery space once a month to share progress or work on projects. I'll toddle along to their next show and tell...

http://www.fizzpop.org.uk/

[SidebySide]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_hardware_projects
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTcwNg