Article: Playing To Our Strengths

[1roxtar]

PLAYING TO OUR STRENGTHS
Are Linux Users Shooting Themselves In The Foot?
Written by 1ROXTAR

I wrote this article and would like some community feedback. I hope you find it an interesting read. Thank you for taking the time to check it out.

http://1roxtar.blogspot.com/2011/09/playing-to-our-strengths.html

[3Miro]

Talking to the Linux users is like herding cats. 10 users would have 20 opinions.

If Linux is to become main-stream, a company (like Red Hat or Canonical or Google) needs to take the software and give it focus in terms of development, marketing and promotion. Android is Linux on phones and Google made it work. Red Hat owns the large server market. Canonical is generally doing what they need to do to get the Desktop. I don't agree with all of their decisions, but generally they are on the right track. Canonical is also smaller than Google, so things are going slowly.

[Dangertux]

I commented on it, however couldn't edit my original comment so deleted it you may wish to clean it up, it's only a repost of the same thing minus typos , so you might not want "original comment deleted by poster" sitting there.


Anyway interesting article, I think it makes some good points.

[beew]

Interesting article, but the thing you mentioned in the first paragraph, namely, being able to try different live CDs and install Linux on your random computer is under threat because of MS's Windows 8 "secure boot" requirement. If the scheme is implemented in a way that doesn't allow the user to sign security keys and the OEMS don't provide an off switch to this "feature" then you won't be able to run a live CD on any computer that comes with the certified for windows 8 logo, let alone installing any OS on it other than the copy of win8 that comes with the computer. This will hurt Linux adoption big time. The Linux community should pay close attentions to and take actions before it becomes a fact on the ground.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1847476&page=20
srs5694's post summarizes the issue concisely, he also has a petition letter to the OEMs and the address of the major ones on his blog, it is linked by one of his posts but it will take sometimes to find (bookmarked it on a different computer)

[Rubykuby]

I agree wholeheartedly with the blog post.

I haven't been around for long, but the endless arguments about minor things I keep reading do tire me. The whole KDE vs. Gnome vs. Unity thing is - with the lack of better words - retarded. No one's forced to use a particular desktop environment, so I don't get the frustrations.

I'm comfortable with what I get in Ubuntu, and was sold the second I read about it.

[Copper Bezel]

beew, that hasn't yet been confirmed. Please don't encourage FUD, particularly around true believers. = D

1roxtar, I'm much of the same mind as you on several points. However, I think that what you perceive as negativity is an important quality of being one's own worst critic. Canonical is marketing Ubuntu publicly in a very positive way. However, individual users and particularly developers need to be aware of the shortcomings of the system. One of Linux's other problems in tackling market share is that the hype has without exception preceded the reality.

Canonical has a plan for what users it intends to target and does indeed have some very high market penetration aspirations. However, I think they're approaching it in an appropriately sober manner. Every year of the last decade has been hailed as the year of the Linux desktop. It's best not to oversell. Even if Linux was a drop-in Windows replacement, with full driver and application support, how many people would opt to install it on machines that come bundled with Windows? Desktop (GNU-based) Linux needs to play to its real strengths. Despite all the customization available, is a more specialized operating system than Windows in certain respects, and it needs to find specialized areas to market itself toward. Canonical is doing a bit of that.

Recently, of course, Android and iOS are making users aware that there are alternatives to Windows. You and I came in during an upswing that was powered by a switch to lower-power devices and increasing popularity in Ubuntu, powered by Canonical's marketing work. There are factors that work in GNU / Linux's favor at the moment. But don't oversell.

That's my reaction - in terms of the article itself, if you're looking for feedback, I'd say keep the tone a little less bombastic. Don't use "so" to mean "very," and don't use all-caps for emphasis. You'll be taken less seriously that way.

[beew]

beew, that hasn't yet been confirmed. Please don't encourage FUD, particularly around true believers. = D




What hasn't been confirmed? MS has made its press conference already. Do you want to wait until it is a fact on the ground that most new laptops will not be bootable in Linux (or anything other than preinstalled Windows 8?) I think it would be prudent to take early notice instead of being caught totally off guard.

[Copper Bezel]

Do you want to wait until it is a fact on the ground that most new laptops will not be bootable in Linux (or anything other than preinstalled Windows 8?)
You're presuming that the options are to panic now or to panic later. If every OEM decided that, after all, Linux users were just too much trouble, there's terribly little you could do about it. I agree that contacting those vendors is a good idea, but it's not relevant to the present discussion, and you're effectively hijacking 1roxtar's topic.

In any event, since you had that bookmark problem, I'll go ahead and give the direct links in case anyone's interested - here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1847476&page=20#198) is srs's post and here (http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5552.html) is the article in question.

[Dangertux]

You're presuming that the options are to panic now or to panic later. If every OEM decided that, after all, Linux users were just too much trouble, there's terribly little you could do about it. I agree that contacting those vendors is a good idea, but it's not relevant to the present discussion, and you're effectively hijacking 1roxtar's topic.

In any event, since you had that bookmark problem, I'll go ahead and give the direct links in case anyone's interested - here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1847476&page=20#198) is srs's post and here (http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5552.html) is the article in question.

I'm hesitant to reply as I don't want to derail the thread further, but in regards to UEFI it's important to know that major manufacturers such as Dell make a considerable amount of money selling Linux loaded laptops to businesses.

You would still be able to find them if this Linux apocalyptic theory becomes reality, you just might have to look a little bit farther then best buy. Linux has been around for 20 years, and it will continue to be around for those that want it, it just may make the leap a little bit larger for those on the "fence" which in my opinion is a good thing. I think too many people jump into it without deciding if it's even really right for them, maybe this will make them think before doing it, and alleviate some of the "THE LINUX COMMUNITY IS HORRIBLE BECAUSE I HOSED MY WINDOWS INSTALL TRYING TO INSTALL LINUX!"

just my 2 cents.

[beew]

You would still be able to find them if this Linux apocalyptic theory becomes reality, you just might have to look a little bit farther then best buy. Linux has been around for 20 years, and it will continue to be around for those that want it, it just may make the leap a little bit larger for those on the "fence" which in my opinion is a good thing. I think too many people jump into it without deciding if it's even really right for them, maybe this will make them think before doing it, and alleviate some of the "THE LINUX COMMUNITY IS HORRIBLE BECAUSE I HOSED MY WINDOWS INSTALL TRYING TO INSTALL LINUX!"

just my 2 cents.


Without derailing the thread I would say this is an instance of Linux users shooting themselves in the foot that OP talks about. I see no reason why you think that artificial hardware barrier to newbie users would be a good thing for Linux unless you think it should forever be a nich OS preseved for hyper geeks, but in that case Ubuntu is probably the wrong Linux for you anyway.

@copper bezel

Thanks for the links. I don't think getting informed, taking notice and whatever actions warranted by the facts is panic, but I will just leave it at that.

[el_koraco]

The greatest stranght is that you can browse the interwebz without worrying about *ware, and most people spend 99 percent of the time in the browser.

[Dangertux]

Without derailing the thread I would say this is an instance of Linux users shooting themselves in the foot that OP talks about. I see no reason why you think that artificial hardware barrier to newbie users would be a good thing for Linux unless you think it should forever be a nich OS preseved for hyper geeks, but in that case Ubuntu is probably the wrong Linux for you anyway.

@copper bezel

Thanks for the links. I don't think getting informed, taking notice and whatever actions warranted by the facts is panic, but I will just leave it at that.

I think you're misunderstanding, I hope Linux and or Ubuntu see widespread adoption. However, I'm not a car salesman, I'm not going to try to sell you a corvette when you want a mini van. If it's not for you I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. If it really is beneficial to you, you will find a way to get it, people are creative that way.

That's why I don't see UEFI as a huge deal. Personally, I use Linux because I like it, and I will always use Linux so long as it is around , and regardless of what some OEM's may do. That being said, whether you or your neighbor or some random college student uses Linux is not really important to me.

[beew]

I think you're misunderstanding, I hope Linux and or Ubuntu see widespread adoption. However, I'm not a car salesman, I'm not going to try to sell you a corvette when you want a mini van. If it's not for you I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. If it really is beneficial to you, you will find a way to get it, people are creative that way.


I think the issue is that you may be able to find only mini vans even though you may want to test drive a corvett.

It may not be a problem for people who are already familiar with and are determined to run Linux, but what about people who have no idea about Linux and would like to try it out by live usb, dual booting or installing in old hardware because they read about it or because someone have told them,? Many new users (including myself and OP) come to Linux this way. It would be a big dent to potential Linux growth if everyone who wants to test drive would have to be "creative" or get special hardware to overcome an artificial barrier.

Why should we care about Linux adoption? It is because bigger user base means more hardware and software support and that in turns mean more development. For Linux to be a viable OS it has to have access to users and the infrastructures for development and support. It is very short sighted to just look at your immediate need and think why worry about growth if my current desktop does all I need.

[Dangertux]

I think the issue is that you may be able to find only mini vans even though you may want to test drive a corvett.

It may not be a problem for people who are already familiar with and are determined to run Linux, but what about people who have no idea about Linux and would like to try it out by live usb, dual booting or installing in old hardware because they read about it or because someone have told them,? Many new users (including myself and OP) come to Linux this way. It would be a big dent to potential Linux growth if everyone who wants to test drive would have to be "creative" or get special hardware to overcome an artificial barrier.

Why should we care about Linux adoption? It is because bigger user base means more hardware and software support and that in turns mean more development. For Linux to be a viable OS it has to have access to users and the infrastructures for development and support. It is very short sighted to just look at your immediate need and think why worry about growth if my current desktop does all I need.

It's also very short sighted to believe that OEM's wouldn't just put an On/Off switch in place for this new security feature everyone is so worried about, just like every other security feature in the world. Particularly considering the prime concern of any OEM is going to be protecting it's assets and not dragged into federal court for anti-trust.

[beew]

It's also very short sighted to believe that OEM's wouldn't just put an On/Off switch in place for this new security feature everyone is so worried about, just like every other security feature in the world. Particularly considering the prime concern of any OEM is going to be protecting it's assets and not dragged into federal court for anti-trust.

Well that was not what you said. There is a difference between saying that you don't worry because you think this will not happen and saying that you don't care even if it happens (and that it may be a good thing if it actually happens)

[Copper Bezel]

Well that was not what you said. There is a difference between saying that you don't worry because you think this will not happen and saying that you don't care even if it happens (and that it may be a good thing if it actually happens)

Yeah, I just don't see it happening. I do think it would seriously damage Linux's userbase if it did, and I do see the connection to the topic here. Most users use Linux as a utility first, then as a dual boot, etc., so there's the practical side, but moreover, most of the appeal (the "strengths" of the OSes) comes from their being modular, a system in which you can install whatever apps on top of whatever DE on top of whatever kernel, and yeah, on top of whatever hardware.

But that is (a little ironically) itself not a necessary feature for most users. So, as Dangertux is getting at, trying to push broader adoption is a little disingenuous. Maybe that's necessary to "compete" with a commercial OS, but I think it's Canonical's business to run, not ours to gripe about.

On another level, I want to see Ubuntu and Linux generally succeed simply because computers, whether they're today's notebooks or next decade's always-on cloud tablets, are too important in the world to be dominated by a single company and a single way of doing things. But that's not a strength of any one OS. I would like to see Linuxes become dominant in education and other areas of relatively non-commercial endeavor, but that is, again, not a strength of the OSes in particular.


The greatest stranght is that you can browse the interwebz without worrying about *ware, and most people spend 99 percent of the time in the browser.
Google seems to think that way. = )

[el_koraco]

Google seems to think that way. = )

Seriously, the only desktop application that poeple still use most of the time is office software. The esoteric "suites" for running an all-in-one printer are not something you have open all the time. I get by with CLI apps for everything, and I mean everything, except browsing. Btw, I just got a message Aurora 9 is in. Back in a jiffy.

[DangerOnTheRanger]

I fully agree with the article - I could (but won't) point out several users here (many with high bean counts) who act exactly as described in the article. Linux won't go anywhere if we say it can't.

[vehemoth]

Well I think the big arguments about defaults is that when new users come to linux they don't tend to know about the modularity. When I first used linux I didn't know why I'd use it. It seemed more hassle then gain compared to what I was using at the time, a year later I started to use it seriously and found out why it was so good, now it's my sole OS.

I think we need a very small jump/boundary for users to try linux so that when they are ready the can start seriously using it. So far I think ubuntu is doing very well at this and it should be very good by time 12.04 is out.

[1roxtar]

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to read my article and I truly appreciate the feedback. It was my first official article and I will be offering more, hopefully, on a weekly basis. My goal is to share a perspective from an end-user who came from a strictly Windows background to a power user that has embraced Linux and it's rapidly changing scene.

[Copper Bezel]

Seriously, the only desktop application that poeple still use most of the time is office software. The esoteric "suites" for running an all-in-one printer are not something you have open all the time. I get by with CLI apps for everything, and I mean everything, except browsing. Btw, I just got a message Aurora 9 is in. Back in a jiffy.
Yeah, I couldn't remotely do that. = ) Aside from the aforementioned office suite, there's still my browser, music player, text editor, and image editor. Then there are my .pdf viewer and the desktop webapps, which are all still the browser, but pretend not to be.

Replacing any of the desktop apps with a web service means a laggy interface that doesn't match my GTK and generally won't even conform to a half-screen window, unnecessary bandwidth consumption that creates another flavor of lag, and usually cloud storage I don't need that I can't access when I'm not in WiFi, such as when I walk to the opposite end of my apartment building, and that I can't really trust not to get interrupted and scramble something.

So have fun in the future - I'll see you there when it works. = D


Well I think the big arguments about defaults is that when new users come to linux they don't tend to know about the modularity. When I first used linux I didn't know why I'd use it. It seemed more hassle then gain compared to what I was using at the time, a year later I started to use it seriously and found out why it was so good, now it's my sole OS.
That's how it works for those of us who care about modularity. You can't assume that everyone's experience would be the same.

[el_koraco]

music player, text editor, and image editor. Then there are my .pdf viewer and the desktop webapps, which are all still the browser, but pretend not to be.

moc, vim/nano, apvlv, and ok, I don't edit images much. But there are some nice online editors. Everything you say checks out, but the developed world is likely to have constant broadband coverage in 10 years or so. T-Mobile (T-Com, I don't know how exactly it's called in the US) has a monopoly with regard to wifi/ethernet services in my country, and the prices are ridiculously high. There are some players with better services, but there's no difference in price.

However, people are getting 1,7 MB per second downloads on mobile dongles, some of them from T-Mobile. 8 dollars a month via student-accounts. Free high-speed internet access = freedom. Fsck Wayland, Quartz and others, I'm gonna be running Webian in a few years time.

[Copper Bezel]

Agreed. And I hate, hate, hate to say it, but Windows 8's Metro is exactly the right idea about what kind of interface a person would want to use to manage all of those webapps (much moreso than Chrome OS; Webian is certainly a step in the right direction.)

In ten years, I might miss having a real computer, but I don't know anyone today who uses a typewriter.

[el_koraco]

Agreed. And I hate, hate, hate to say it, but Windows 8's Metro is exactly the right idea about what kind of interface a person would want to use to manage all of those webapps

It's something, a step in the right direction. IE's interface is solid, but there's too much fiddling. The other stuff, dunno, when real apps get there, and not the Twitter feed and wheather (come on), might be even better.

[Copper Bezel]

Oh, I didn't mean the OS in general - I just meant the no-chrome, touch-centric tiler would be ideal for a web-shell-type PC like Webian or Chrome OS (which Windows 8, of course, isn't.) It seems like an ideal interface for flattening native and web applications into one space where everything, nonetheless, feels native.

In the super future world where everyone has wireless all the time, and super-cool future glasses, and such. = )

[1roxtar]

*Shameless Bump* LOL