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Dragonbite
September 27th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Posted in PC Pro magazine:


Gnome creator: Linux has "only 10 great desktop apps" (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/370171/gnome-creator-linux-has-only-10-great-desktop-apps#ixzz1ZB5pLMMP)

Linux is struggling on the desktop because it only has a small number of "great" apps, according to the Gnome co-creator.

Miguel de Icaza, co-creator of the Gnome desktop, told tech journalist Tim Anderson at the recent Windows 8 Build conference that Linux desktops have failed because they never cracked the application problem.

"When you count how many great desktop apps there are on Linux, you can probably name 10," de Icaza said, according to a post on Anderson's IT Writing blog. "You work really hard, you can probably name 20. We’ve managed to p*** off developers every step of the way, breaking APIs all the time."

Read more: Gnome creator: Linux has "only 10 great desktop apps" | News | PC Pro http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/370171/gnome-creator-linux-has-only-10-great-desktop-apps#ixzz1ZB6EJk9b


So, what 10 (or 20) apps would you consider "great desktop apps"?

Paqman
September 27th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Geyes, definitely.

KiwiNZ
September 27th, 2011, 07:35 PM
Great? none
Good...

Firefox
Chrome
Gimp
Open Office
Thunderbird
Opera

wolfen69
September 27th, 2011, 07:45 PM
Great? none


Your opinion. Gtkpod blows away itunes for ease of use, and simple scan is brilliantly simple. I could name others, but......

KiwiNZ
September 27th, 2011, 07:50 PM
Your opinion. Gtkpod blows away itunes for ease of use, and simple scan is brilliantly simple. I could name others, but......

The OP asked "So, what 10 (or 20) apps would you consider "great desktop apps"?"

Therefore all answers here will be "your opinion"

Just because it is the posters opinion does not make it any less relevant to their own experience.

drawkcab
September 27th, 2011, 08:00 PM
Does windows have more than 20 great apps that don't run in wine?

JDShu
September 27th, 2011, 08:04 PM
Firefox
XChat

That's all I can name off the top of my head actually :/

haqking
September 27th, 2011, 08:09 PM
IMO

a great app can only ever be defined by the user and their needs.

And so every app that does what i need it to do without hassle is a great app.

Every app i have and use is then by definition a great app !

;-)

del_diablo
September 27th, 2011, 08:21 PM
Why can't the developer just be honest and admit the real problem is that there is no OEM that sells Linux PCs with high quality, a bit like Apple does with OS X?

Dragonbite
September 27th, 2011, 08:28 PM
1. Guake/Yakuake for simple drop-down terminal.
2. Shotwell and Digikam are good photo managers. Closest I've found to them is Picasa so far (which is also available for Linux)
3. Gedit, which Notepad++ is the closest equivalent to it in Windows

hmm... not as easy as I thought!

beew
September 27th, 2011, 08:29 PM
There are commercial "killer apps" that are available to other platforms but not Linux but you also have to pay big bucks for them. Every time I hear random people complaining that PhotoShop is not available in Linux I have a feeling that 1) they not professionals who really need PS and probably know or use ~10% of its functionalities, to be generous, because there just aren't that many graphic professionals among the vast PC users pool and 2) chances are they don't pay for it in Windows (as in using illegal copies)

It is not to say that Linux devs shouldn't create better products but I am sure many are already working hard given the constraints of resources and man power.They need encouragement and support, not put downs.

Here are some that I can think of

R

Octave

Sage

Mplayer

VLC

gparted

Blender

K3b

The Gimp (unless you pay $700 for PhotoShop)

Shotwell

Winff (GUI for ffmpeg for media file conversion)

aura7
September 27th, 2011, 08:34 PM
Linux has world class developer tools... like

Eclipse
Netbeans
Aptana Studio
MySQL with Workbench
Oracle
DB2
All... Application Servers ...(except IIS)

Best support for C, C++, Python, Perl, PHP, Java (better than any other OS)

Linux is a developers heaven and that is the community that uses linux.

del_diablo
September 27th, 2011, 08:35 PM
So why can't the developer just be honest, and admit the real problem is that Linux don't have any good OEM backing for buildt desktops?
What I mean is: Look at Apple and their OS X. If Apple was just another "small OS maker", they would have been flat out ignored, and perhaps died of starvation after their niche migrated away. Instead what they did was to build desktop hardware and consumer products, with high quality, some minor bundeling, and buildt a image over quite some time.
What Linux needs is that a OEM created a modified version of Ubuntu, perhaps with a hack that makes it upgrade from LTS to LTS silently in the background, running on decent hardware with a nice design, and sell it in normal stores.
Said OEM could also for example make sure that all drivers for the hardware ends up in the Kernel or Gallium3D, and fund it properly.
If the initial markedshare is breached, other OEMs will attempt to copy, and sell their "Linux hardware to the desktop and the laptops", which will essentially be lower quality computers for the most, with a few exceptions.
It would also solve the chicken and egg problem by throwing inn a egg.


What the situation has been so far is that there is a few special manifactuers that sells to induviduals, and not consumers. And then there is the server and workbench marked, which is not the consumer marked.
There is also a few special cases, where computers are also sold to the workbench marked, and hence they have full Linux support somewhere under the hood, but no consumer wants something like that because they would not know.
I am not going to check the hardware, look for reviews, or anything like that. That is something I would do if I got desperate. I would most likely just want "that fancy laptop in that fancy material with those nice spesifications", and if it works, i could care less about what it could have been.

alexan
September 27th, 2011, 08:38 PM
This again?


Let's do democracy way this time:
http://alternativeto.net/software/liked/?profile=linux
http://alternativeto.net/software/viewed/?profile=linux

Rubykuby
September 27th, 2011, 08:54 PM
Why do we need many programs anyway? If Chrome/Chromium, GIMP, Shotwell, Banshee, Pidgin, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, Wine and some other programs do what I need to do, I don't see the need for other programs.

Dragonbite
September 27th, 2011, 09:02 PM
Empathy. I don't know of any other Windows multi-protocol messenger application that also includes IRC chatting.

In Windows I can either use multiple messaging clients, or Trillian and iirc even Trillian does not have IRC support (it's been a while since I have used it).


Linux has world class developer tools... like

Eclipse
Netbeans
Aptana Studio
MySQL with Workbench
Oracle
DB2
All... Application Servers ...(except IIS)

Best support for C, C++, Python, Perl, PHP, Java (better than any other OS)

Linux is a developers heaven and that is the community that uses linux.

If I recall, all of those listed are available for Windows as well with little or no difference. Also, Monodevelop doesn't hold a candle to Visual Studio, but the good aspect is it doesn't do "for" you as much as VS.

Bluefish and gPHPEdit are pretty good and Linux-only but I don't know if they count as being "great".

haqking
September 27th, 2011, 09:05 PM
The majority of apps mentioned so far are just open source cross platform apps.

A truly great linux app would be the CLI/terminal/console/bash etc ;-)

keithpeter
September 27th, 2011, 09:05 PM
IMO

a great app can only ever be defined by the user and their needs.

And so every app that does what i need it to do without hassle is a great app.

Every app i have and use is then by definition a great app !

;-)

I use my computer(s) to produce stuff and to communicate. So, for me, these are 'great apps'

Firefox, sylpheed, libreoffice, audacity, GIMP, inkscape, Hugin Panorama Creator, R, pyxplot, lyx, cups and cups-pdf, jack audio connection kit, puredata, processing, ardour, supercollider, fluxus, freemind, gedit, pyroom

Many of these are available for Microsoft Windows(tm) as well, and Mac OS. I think sometimes that programmers tend to have an aesthetics of software that goes beyond uses.

Jay Car
September 27th, 2011, 09:14 PM
Here's my list of Great software:

- Firefox and Chrome, of course.
- Krita is wonderful (in my view) and getting better all the time.
- qBittorrent absolutely rocks.
- Scribus is just beautiful in SO many ways, and gets better and better all the time.
- Gimp...well, ok, it was a little difficult to love this one, but these days I am very impressed with it, and the more I use it, the more I enjoy using it.
- Inkscape, I'm serious, the Inkscape folks deserve awards and massive cheers for the strides made in this wonderful software. It also just gets better and better.
- K3b is absolutely top of the line.
- Audacity! My goodness, how could anyone not think Audacity qualifies as great software?
- LibreOffice. I'm very impressed with it and view it as a great piece of software...but I never have been a MSOffice user, so maybe MSOffice is great too (shrug).

I could go on and on, but the main thing is that it's been a LOT of fun watching these programs grow and mature over the years. Having been a user of Windows and Adobe for so many years, the transition was a little tough. But the fact that many of these programs are cross-platform was what made them worthy of my time and attention. They paved my road out of the Windows/Adobe world, and I view that reason alone as qualifying them as "great" - and valuable.

I've actually had access to FAR more truly great programs using Linux than I ever did using Windows.

BigSilly
September 27th, 2011, 09:25 PM
Gnome creator: Linux has "only 10 great desktop apps"

Linux Format would like a word with you (http://www.linuxformat.com/archives?issue=148)... I have this issue and they really include 50 top drawer applications for Linux.

I don't get this. Personally, even when I'm on Windows, I use all the same apps that I'm using across my Linux installs. I just prefer the software. Libre Office, Firefox, Thunderbird, Handbrake, KeepassX, VLC, Gimp, Chrome. Then there's Clonezilla, all my favourite various emulators, Gnome-Do, K3b, just off the top of my head. Applications for Linux really isn't an issue for desktop users imho.

Ric_NYC
September 27th, 2011, 09:25 PM
Firefox
Chrome
LibreOffice
Gimp
Inkscape
VLC
UMplayer
Digikam
Shotwell
Miro
Thunderbird
Blender
XBMC
Azureus
VirtualBox
Dropbox
...




IMHO all "5 stars".

More than 10.

Paqman
September 27th, 2011, 09:39 PM
I'm surprised to see people listing VLC. Sure it's useful, but the interface is absolutely dire. I think Miguel de Icaza's comment was talking about apps that are not just functional, but genuinely inspired.

Dragonbite
September 27th, 2011, 09:44 PM
That is a valid point, just because a program is cross-platform it doesn't mean it cannot be a "great desktop application".

But many of the applications I use for Linux are because they are the closest equivalent, not because they are good in their own right are chosen over other applications.

It's kinda like when you vote for somoebody because he/she/it isn't the other person, or vote for them because you really do like/believe what they say.

That's why I picked Shotwell & Digikam, because even though Picasa is avaialable for Linux I think these two do a better job in most aspects (and is getting better with each iteration). This includes alternatives on Windows (though Live Photo isn't too bad).

And Empathy beats what else is available for the Linux desktop and even Windows desktop.

OpenOffice and LibreOffice I use because they are the best of what is available, in part because MS Office is not available.

I admit that all of this is very subjective and WHAT you do and what you have used in the PAST makes a big impact on your expectations and opinions on the BEST.

TeoBigusGeekus
September 27th, 2011, 09:44 PM
IMO, since linux has a tiny desktop audience, it will always follow windows in terms of desktop apps, providing mainly substitutes to win apps.

ninjaaron
September 27th, 2011, 09:47 PM
Eh...
1. Blender is best-in-class, and is the goto tool for hollywood 3d rendering.

2. LibreOffice/OpenOffice is easily the best WYSIWYG editors for my academic field. Ugly as heck, and terrible bundled documentation, but the functionality is second to none.

3. Inkscape is excellent, and many people prefer it to illustrator. I'm not advanced enough to have a real opinion about that.

4. If you count virtual terminals as desktop apps, Linux has tons of these that are more sophisticated than what you will find on other platforms. rxvt-unicode is an excellent terminal, for example. mlterm is also great for multi-directional text, which is usually a very tricky business in the terminal.

5. I prefer tiling window managers to stacking, so that's an area where Linux shines (and in customization of the UI in general). To pic a specific one, I'm using scrotwm right now and couldn't be happier, but there are many wonderful tiling window managers.

6. I consider Battle for Wesnoth to be a "great" game.

7. The top web-browsers are all available on Linux. Firefox, Chrome, Opera... Safari and IE don't have anything up on these browsers, though they are not bad in and of themselves.

8. Linux has excellent gui-based text editors. gedit, geany, and gvim are all superb. I guess emacs is ok, if your into that kind of thing.

9. The software center is great. I was blown away by it when I switched to Ubuntu several years back, before it was the standard form of software distribution on every platform.

10. Compiz is great, and I'm not talking about the cube and wobbly windows (but whatever floats your boat). Compiz gives you almost unlimited control over window appearance and behavior, as well as command binding. There's really nothing else like it.

Alright, I made it to ten, though some were a little lame (counting text editors, terminals, and window managers as desktop apps).

We all know that desktop apps are not where Linux really shines (though there are many perfectly good an usable desktop apps for all kinds of tasks). My favorite linux app is still this:


|

el_koraco
September 27th, 2011, 10:18 PM
Yeah, but dozens of awesome CLI apps. And of course De Icaza would say that, since he sold his soul to the devil and all.

JDShu
September 27th, 2011, 10:23 PM
I forgot about Blender, that's definitely the most impressive piece of software on Linux imo.

I love GIMP, but we have to be realistic and realize that it's miles behind its commercial equivalent. I look forward to the pace of progress increasing with the new development strategy though.

wolfen69
September 27th, 2011, 10:24 PM
Probably my favorite linux-only app has to be K3B by far. I've burned tons of cd's over the years with it, and it does a great job. Too bad it's not available for windows users. Windows could really use a good free alternative to Nero. No skin off my back though, as I don't use windows.

TeoBigusGeekus
September 27th, 2011, 10:27 PM
I forgot about Blender, that's definitely the most impressive piece of software on Linux imo.

I'll give you that, but you won't say the same thing once you've worked with Cinema4D, Maya or 3DStudioMax.

Jesus_Valdez
September 27th, 2011, 10:45 PM
I have two; wine and Virtualbox.

Shpongle
September 27th, 2011, 10:57 PM
IMO

a great app can only ever be defined by the user and their needs.

And so every app that does what i need it to do without hassle is a great app.

Every app i have and use is then by definition a great app !

;-)


Well Said ,

That said , I will do a list of good apps

K3b
Amarok / rhythmbox
Firefox
ktorrent
kopete / pidgin
gimp
vlc
kdenlive
acetoneiso (dont need it much but it has great options)

He has a point though. I find a lot of the linux apps more useful or feature filled than the windows equivalents in some cases. Can't speak for mac's.

beew
September 27th, 2011, 10:59 PM
I'll give you that, but you won't say the same thing once you've worked with Cinema4D, Maya or 3DStudioMax.

Apparently both Cinema4D and Maya run natively in Linux, and at least according to some reviewers blender is at the same level as the commercial products you cited. http://www.3dworldmag.com/2011/02/09/the-making-of-sintel/4/

KiwiNZ
September 27th, 2011, 11:02 PM
Having regard to all platforms I don't really consider Apps as great, however that said if I were to select some Apps I would consider "great" they would be ....

Samba
Microsoft Office
Netscape Navigator (defunct)

TeoBigusGeekus
September 27th, 2011, 11:02 PM
Apparently both Cinema4D and Maya run natively in Linux.

They do, but have you looked at their prices?:shock:

alexan
September 27th, 2011, 11:06 PM
I'll give you that, but you won't say the same thing once you've worked with Cinema4D, Maya or 3DStudioMax.

Maya have linux port, also is mentioned in Wikipedia that Cinema4D has a "Linux version for commercial studio use is available upon request"

beew
September 27th, 2011, 11:06 PM
They do, but have you looked at their prices?:shock:

But they would be just as expensive on Windows, no? So, most people wouldn't use them anyway (won't need them, can't afford them).

Blender is free and high quality, I think that should qualify as a killer app. :)

TeoBigusGeekus
September 27th, 2011, 11:13 PM
But they would be just as expensive on Windows, no? So, most people wouldn't use them anyway (won't need them, can't afford them).

Blender is free and high quality, I think that should qualify as a killer app. :)

You have a point, I admit it.
It's just that whenever I talk about linux apps, in the back of my head I mean foss apps.
I can't qualify blender as a killer app when there are the aforementioned pieces of software, in the same way that I can't qualify libre/openoffice as a killer app when there's MSOffice around and in the same way I can't qualify bricscad/draftsight as a killer app when there's autocad around: they are merely adequate substitutes.

EDIT-PS: Add the Gimp-Photoshop analogy as well.

Thewhistlingwind
September 27th, 2011, 11:15 PM
Well, as I see it, theres three problems in categorizing this:

1. Obviously what qualifies as a great app.

2. Weather Linux app includes cross platform offerings. (That is, must it be a Linux exclusive?)

3. Not everyone needs an app. Even if it's great. reminds me of a blog post where a guy says "All I need is ten apps" and everyone else responds, yes, but everyone needs a different ten apps.

beew
September 27th, 2011, 11:46 PM
I can't qualify blender as a killer app when there are the aforementioned pieces of software, in the same way that I can't qualify libre/openoffice as a killer app when there's MSOffice around and in the same way I can't qualify bricscad/draftsight as a killer app when there's autocad around: they are merely adequate substitutes.

EDIT-PS: Add the Gimp-Photoshop analogy as well.

I think people should be realistic when they have this discussion. FOSS is free and does most of the things that most people ever do on their desktop while the high end commercial counterparts cost a lot and most users probably would never use or need the features. That should be taken into considerations. I mean, it is like car commercials that brag that their cars can go x km/h, why should I care if there is speed limit on the roads?

For professionals they need all kind of niche products and they have ways to get them, maybe paying a lot for commercial products, or maybe developing their own in house versions (like Pixer) and they are really outside the scope of common desktop usage.

madjr
September 28th, 2011, 12:01 AM
i Think what Miguel de Icaza means is that there are only 10 great MONO apps ! ;D

/sarcasm.

no seriously (jokes aside) i do agree with him and we do need to make things better to attract more developers.

TeoBigusGeekus
September 28th, 2011, 12:01 AM
I think people should be realistic when they have this discussion. FOSS is free and does most of the things that most people ever do on their desktop while the high end commercial counterparts cost a lot and most users probably would never use or need the features. That should be taken into considerations. I mean, it is like car commercials that brag that their cars can go x km/h, why should I care if there is speed limit on the roads?

For professionals they need all kind of niche products and they have ways to get them, maybe paying a lot for commercial products, or maybe developing their own in house versions (like Pixer) and they are really outside the scope of common desktop usage.

Agreed...
...but what we actually agree on, is that there can't be killer apps in the FOSS world as a principle...:-k

el_koraco
September 28th, 2011, 12:14 AM
Agreed...
...but what we actually agree on, is that there can't be killer apps in the FOSS world as a principle...:-k

It depends. If you take products that appeal to a narrow audience, no, the commercial development model is more successful for all the reasons, the most important being that you can attract more developers to a niche (to whatever extent) product by offering them financial gain. If you take general-usage applications, then you have everything from Apache through rtorrent to the browsers kicking the competition's buttocks.

A general rule of thumb is that the open source model is not very good at developing proprietary software. Picture that :D

TeoBigusGeekus
September 28th, 2011, 12:14 AM
i think what miguel de icaza means is that there are only 10 great mono apps ! ;d

/sarcasm.

No seriously (jokes aside) i do agree with him and we do need to make things better to attract more developers.

+1

TeoBigusGeekus
September 28th, 2011, 12:27 AM
It depends. If you take products that appeal to a narrow audience, no, the commercial development model is more successful for all the reasons, the most important being that you can attract more developers to a niche (to whatever extent) product by offering them financial gain. If you take general-usage applications, then you have everything from Apache through rtorrent to the browsers kicking the competition's buttocks.

A general rule of thumb is that the open source model is not very good at developing proprietary software. Picture that :D

Mind=Blown :lolflag:

Seriously now, I believe that linux should try and attract pros, if it wants to gain a larger audience.
I'm biased (look at my sig) but think about it: the average desktop user will use whatever is passed on to him. There are people who pay 2000 euros for a Mac for god's sake, just to browse the internet and listen to music.
You can't rely on them to gain popularity; at least not with linux's inherent problems (see lack of standards, occasional instability, etc.).
You can convince someone to try linux for his daily use, but at the first kernel panic, refusal to boot, update mess, etc. he's out.
Linux needs to attract pros and specialists, who will look beyond all this and understand the superiority of unix in the field of their expertise.
If linux/unix/bsd becomes a standard in the industry, the foundation will have be built and the open source world will get better and better as it will attract better and better programmers; the average user? He won't notice any difference...

beew
September 28th, 2011, 12:42 AM
Mind=Blown :lolflag:

Seriously now, I believe that linux should try and attract pros, if it wants to gain a larger audience.
I'm biased (look at my sig) but think about it: the average desktop user will use whatever is passed on to him. There are people who pay 2000 euros for a Mac for god's sake, just to browse the internet and listen to music.
You can't rely on them to gain popularity; at least not with linux's inherent problems (see lack of standards, occasional instability, etc.).
You can convince someone to try linux for his daily use, but at the first kernel panic, refusal to boot, update mess, etc. he's out.
Linux needs to attract pros and specialists, who will look beyond all this and understand the superiority of unix in the field of their expertise.
If linux/unix/bsd becomes a standard in the industry, the foundation will have be built and the open source world will get better and better as it will attract better and better programmers; the average user? He won't notice any difference...

In some specialized areas Linux is doing very well, for example pure scientific research. But I think your general point is a valid one.

TeoBigusGeekus
September 28th, 2011, 12:45 AM
That's another story: academic research vs the real world (sorry, I'm biased in this as well).
But since it's getting real heated in here, I'm off to reddit...

JDShu
September 28th, 2011, 01:13 AM
I'll give you that, but you won't say the same thing once you've worked with Cinema4D, Maya or 3DStudioMax.

Hmm what's the reason? GIMP lags behind PS due to a huge lack of features, I'm not familiar enough with 3d modelling software to know what the problem with blender is. I do know that blender is used professionally to a much greater extent than GIMP.

boydrice
September 28th, 2011, 01:17 AM
Vim
Emacs
Rsync
Wget
coreutils
Tmux
Screen
OpenSSH
Mplayer
VLC
K3B
Banshee
Amarok
Clementine
APT
YUM
Zypper
Pacman
Urpmi
slackpkg
Terminator
Terminal
Konsole
Rox-Term
Dolphin
Nautilus
Thunar
PCmanFM
abcde (all the apps it uses cdparanoia etc)
ffmpeg
Bash
Networkmanager
Wicd
YAST
Mandriva Control Center
GNOME
KDE
Xfce
LXDE
Fluxbox
Openbox
Pekwm
Xmonad
dwm
scrotwm

kaldor
September 28th, 2011, 01:41 AM
Nobody should be taking this so seriously when there's such a huge generalization. The same can be said about any OS depending on who is being asked.

earthpigg
September 28th, 2011, 02:06 AM
What if we create at least some baseline criteria for a "great linux app", keeping in mind that the context is desktop adoption and that desktop software is assumed to be an important aspect of that? What I propose...

1) It must be a Linux app, not a fully cross-platform app. Ideally, Linux only but [ Linux/Mac but not Windows ] is fine, as is [ Linux/Windows but not Mac ].
2) It must be best-in-breed across all platforms.

Justification for #1: "Switch to Linux so you can use Firefox" isn't a good argument.
Justification for #2: "If you want to do _____, you should switch to Linux. ________ is the best app there is to do that, and it is Linux only (or runs much better on Linux)" could be quite a compelling argument.

That seems to be the best way to look at this, even though the criteria aren't fair and place the open source approach at a disadvantage.

I didn't start with a conclusion and then create the criteria. I tried to think of the most reasonable criteria on the assumption that I'd be able to put a very good list together using the criteria to eliminate things like Firefox and narrow the list down to a few (10 or fewer) true diamonds that might truly play a role compelling someone to switch.

I'm having trouble naming a single piece of desktop software that fits those criteria, however.

Was just about to post and thought of one: Giver (http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/12/19/simple-desktop-file-sharing-with-giver/).

earthpigg
September 28th, 2011, 02:12 AM
I have a second: Compiz.

Simian Man
September 28th, 2011, 02:33 AM
It depends on your definition of "great". If you mean software that is professional quality, and could be sold, I agree with Icaza. Most Linux software is clearly written by amateurs and lacks polish, attention to detail and a well thought out user interface. VLC and Gimp are perfect examples of this.

If your definition of "great" is free and fairly useful, then there are tons of great Linux programs. Again VLC and Gimp are perfect examples of this.

dodo3773
September 28th, 2011, 03:41 AM
Here is my list:


aircrack
sudo
conky
macchanger
dsniff
htop
bash
awk
sed
zsh
cpulimit
evince
gnome-terminal
If we're counting compiz then:


compiz
openbox
gnome
If I could get these things in Windows and they went open source with their OS; then I might give them a shot again someday. But I probably still wouldn't.

kostageas
September 28th, 2011, 05:33 AM
Firefox
Thunderbird
Pidgin
GIMP


I can't think of any others in particular atm.

TheNosh
September 28th, 2011, 07:37 AM
I find Banshee more natural for me than iTunes by a small margin. (The Windows alpha is promising.)

However, I find Adobe Fireworks/Photoshop to be more effective than GIMP by a WIDE margin. Also, I like Netflix and my Steam games.

Aside from that, the two are mostly even. On a regular basis, I use:
LibreOffice
Mozilla Thunderbird
Pidgin
Hulu Desktop
Google Chrome
VLC
Minecraft
Evince
Deluge

All of those are available on both platforms.

That leaves Windows ahead. I just use Linux because I like to tinker around and try new stuff. Right now that itch is being scratched by the Windows 8 Developer preview, though.

Sylos
September 28th, 2011, 07:43 AM
hows about....

VLC
Chromium
Ardour
Jack (when you can get it to work)
apt

err...
:D

Copper Bezel
September 28th, 2011, 07:46 AM
What if we create at least some baseline criteria for a "great linux app", keeping in mind that the context is desktop adoption and that desktop software is assumed to be an important aspect of that? What I propose...

1) It must be a Linux app, not a fully cross-platform app. Ideally, Linux only but [ Linux/Mac but not Windows ] is fine, as is [ Linux/Windows but not Mac ].
2) It must be best-in-breed across all platforms.

Justification for #1: "Switch to Linux so you can use Firefox" isn't a good argument.
Justification for #2: "If you want to do _____, you should switch to Linux. ________ is the best app there is to do that, and it is Linux only (or runs much better on Linux)" could be quite a compelling argument.

That seems to be the best way to look at this, even though the criteria aren't fair and place the open source approach at a disadvantage.

I didn't start with a conclusion and then create the criteria. I tried to think of the most reasonable criteria on the assumption that I'd be able to put a very good list together using the criteria to eliminate things like Firefox and narrow the list down to a few (10 or fewer) true diamonds that might truly play a role compelling someone to switch.

I'm having trouble naming a single piece of desktop software that fits those criteria, however.

[...]

I have a second: Compiz.

I read the statement differently. In the context of the statement, I don't see anything to indicate that the app has to be non-cross-platform. If it did, then as el_koraco hinted at, Linux is seriously screwed, because all the best Linux apps are open source and readily ported on demand.

It's less, "what makes people need to switch to Linux," and more, "What makes it possible for them to do so?" I take that as the editorial position, at the very least, particularly from the screenshot of Ubuntu's Internet apps category chosen for the header. Firefox, Pidgin, Skype; yeah, that's pretty much the extent of the desktop apps a lot of Linux users bother with.

Compiz, however, isn't a "desktop app" in the usual sense. It's a part of the DE, and I don't think that's what de Icaza is talking about. I'd list Synapse or AWN or DockBarX, too, all of which are five-star applications even when compared cross-platform, but they're not "programs that let you do things," proper end-user apps; these are all shell features. I wouldn't count services like Dropbox, or even relatively invisible and highly desktop-integral apps like file managers, but maybe that's splitting hairs.

So I'd assume that the criteria assumed by "great desktop apps" are more like, "class-exemplary graphical apps that perform a non-system function."

Working from those assumptions, I'd have to list VLC and GIMP, for all the failings of their absurd interfaces, simply because they do have a hell of a lot of cross-platform penetration - they're apps people choose to use even when they have other options. Blender is nichey - particularly since the UI is not friendly to the uninitiated. Chrome, Firefox, and Opera all count. gedit is competitive with Notepad++. Rhythmbox, Amarok, Banshee, etc. are all decently usable media players, and combined with Totem or whatever else, they're at least as good in their class as Windows Media Player. Qalculate is the best "pocket calculator" app I've seen, and it's unfortunate it's not better known.

OpenOffice and its spins are three-star emulations of a five-star app and a fundamentally misguided endeavor, so much as I'm concerned, so I wouldn't count them. It chafes me that it's still the only halfway believable office suite for Linux, because it's exactly what Linux doesn't need and exactly what doesn't constitute a great desktop app (or suite, in this case); another free, less reliable imitation of a product that already exists commercially and fails to exhibit any imagination or play to its own strengths.


I'm working at it, and I still can't get to 20. = )

earthpigg
September 28th, 2011, 07:51 AM
I think that is a very valid and well elucidated position, Copper Bezel.

My position may be a bit to zero-sum in nature, I will concede.

TheNosh
September 28th, 2011, 08:40 AM
Vim
Emacs
Rsync
Wget
coreutils
Tmux
Screen
OpenSSH
Mplayer
VLC
K3B
Banshee
Amarok
Clementine
APT
YUM
Zypper
Pacman
Urpmi
slackpkg
Terminator
Terminal
Konsole
Rox-Term
Dolphin
Nautilus
Thunar
PCmanFM
abcde (all the apps it uses cdparanoia etc)
ffmpeg
Bash
Networkmanager
Wicd
YAST
Mandriva Control Center
GNOME
KDE
Xfce
LXDE
Fluxbox
Openbox
Pekwm
Xmonad
dwm
scrotwm

So many things listed for the same purpose.

Let's try the same for Windows, shall we?


Firefox
Chrome
Chromium
Opera
Internet Explorer
Flock
Rockmelt
Safari
Photoshop
Illustrator
InDesign
Flash Catalyst
Flash Professional
Flash Builder
Dreamweaver
Fireworks
Contribute
Premiere Pro
OnLocation
Encore
After Effects
Adobe Audition
Paint.NET
GIMP
Microsoft Paint
Inkscape
Google Sketchup
Krita
Picasa
Blender
Windows Movie Maker
Windows Media Player
iTunes
Foobar2000
WinAmp
Songbird
Digsby
Pidgin
Skype
AIM
Steam
Microsoft Outlook
Windows Live Mail
Mozilla Thunderbird
PowerShell
Notepad++
Sony Vegas
Rainmeter
Rainlendar
Samurize
Rocket Dock
Object Dock
Microsoft Visual Studio
WindRiver Work Bench
Geany
Audacity
VLC
Mplayer
Hulu Desktop
Boxee
Media Player Classic
Quick Time
Real Player
OpenOffice
LibreOffice
IBM Lotus Symphony
Microsoft Office

See? Looks dumb.

Spice Weasel
September 28th, 2011, 09:45 AM
Pretty sure that CLI applications don't count to all those who are listing them. He stated "desktop apps".

Also, DEs. Those are just a collection of applications and small tools. You have to state individual applications. (eg. instead of saying KDE, say Konqueror. Not that Konqueror is of any use.)

TeoBigusGeekus
September 28th, 2011, 10:21 AM
What if we create at least some baseline criteria for a "great linux app", keeping in mind that the context is desktop adoption and that desktop software is assumed to be an important aspect of that? What I propose...

1) It must be a Linux app, not a fully cross-platform app. Ideally, Linux only but [ Linux/Mac but not Windows ] is fine, as is [ Linux/Windows but not Mac ].
2) It must be best-in-breed across all platforms.

Justification for #1: "Switch to Linux so you can use Firefox" isn't a good argument.
Justification for #2: "If you want to do _____, you should switch to Linux. ________ is the best app there is to do that, and it is Linux only (or runs much better on Linux)" could be quite a compelling argument.

That seems to be the best way to look at this, even though the criteria aren't fair and place the open source approach at a disadvantage.

I didn't start with a conclusion and then create the criteria. I tried to think of the most reasonable criteria on the assumption that I'd be able to put a very good list together using the criteria to eliminate things like Firefox and narrow the list down to a few (10 or fewer) true diamonds that might truly play a role compelling someone to switch.

I'm having trouble naming a single piece of desktop software that fits those criteria, however.

Was just about to post and thought of one: Giver (http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/12/19/simple-desktop-file-sharing-with-giver/).

EXACTLY what I wanted to say but my Borat english didn't let me.

sffvba[e0rt
September 28th, 2011, 12:26 PM
I am not sure what application can be defined as "great" or even "good"... What I do know is I am using Ubuntu and the applications bundled with it (plus a few others) to do everything I need to do on my laptop.


404

boydrice
September 28th, 2011, 01:10 PM
So many things listed for the same purpose.

Let's try the same for Windows, shall we?


Firefox
Chrome
Chromium
Opera
Internet Explorer
Flock
Rockmelt
Safari
Photoshop
Illustrator
InDesign
Flash Catalyst
Flash Professional
Flash Builder
Dreamweaver
Fireworks
Contribute
Premiere Pro
OnLocation
Encore
After Effects
Adobe Audition
Paint.NET
GIMP
Microsoft Paint
Inkscape
Google Sketchup
Krita
Picasa
Blender
Windows Movie Maker
Windows Media Player
iTunes
Foobar2000
WinAmp
Songbird
Digsby
Pidgin
Skype
AIM
Steam
Microsoft Outlook
Windows Live Mail
Mozilla Thunderbird
PowerShell
Notepad++
Sony Vegas
Rainmeter
Rainlendar
Samurize
Rocket Dock
Object Dock
Microsoft Visual Studio
WindRiver Work Bench
Geany
Audacity
VLC
Mplayer
Hulu Desktop
Boxee
Media Player Classic
Quick Time
Real Player
OpenOffice
LibreOffice
IBM Lotus Symphony
Microsoft Office

See? Looks dumb.

Actually including Flock in a list of great Apps looks dumb. The point of listing multiple apps that have the same function is to illustrate that each of them are superior apps to a windows or mac equivalent.

boydrice
September 28th, 2011, 01:18 PM
Pretty sure that CLI applications don't count to all those who are listing them. He stated "desktop apps".

Also, DEs. Those are just a collection of applications and small tools. You have to state individual applications. (eg. instead of saying KDE, say Konqueror. Not that Konqueror is of any use.)

People who disregard CLI apps baffle me. I would say CLI apps are the "killer apps" of linux/BSD. There is nothing that compares to them in Windows. Hell package management alone destroys the competition.

As far as DE yes they are a collection of apps, each collection being better than the one you will find yourself with in Win7 or OS X. I use Win7 at work everyday and dread being handcuffed with its lack of flexibility and functionality. My wife has a Mac and it is only marginally better that regard.

Dragonbite
September 28th, 2011, 01:53 PM
My take on the "10 great desktop apps" is just that; what great applications is Linux able to run that are considered "great". It shouldn't matter whether it is cross-platform or non-proprietary, just what applications does Linux have that makes using it appealing or more appealing?

In Desktop marketing, there is comparing yourself to the compeition, putting the competition down and then putting up a product so compelling the competition isn't even a thought!

Apple doesn't talk about iWork and iLife in comparison to Windows applications. They talk about how cool, easy and inexpensive they are compared to the compeition. The only time Microsoft is mentioned is usually in "program xyz is compatible with Microsoft's pdq" and even that is not Microsoft specific. It can also be used with being compatible with Adobe or heck, even an open source standard!

But when you think about Linux on the desktop (and try this from a non-enthusiast's point of view), what programs are really great, that does what you want so well it doesn't matter what platform it is running on!

That's why I said I use LibreOffice because it is what is available, not because it is "great" and this is not a knock on the developers. They have done a great job and it is not an easy task. I just don't enjoy using it too much (LibreOffice, though, is way better than OpenOffice in my experience so far).

Meanwhile, when I am running Windows I miss Empathy and Shotwell and Digikam and gEdit.

Dragonbite
September 28th, 2011, 02:07 PM
Oh, and I want to add Pithos, the music player that plugs into Pandora. I love not having to go to a browser to listen to the music!

Jesus_Valdez
September 28th, 2011, 04:16 PM
Sonata as a mpd client is one desktop app that I count as "great".

Also for Microsoft is really easy, Photoshop, Microsoft Office and Windows Live Messenger would be on my list.

How many people doesn't come to the forum looking for a Linux equivalent for those? How many use Outlook on their work and aren't satisfied by Evolution and/or Thunderbird?

Every other office related thread have the level of compatibility of the Open source solution with the Microsoft suite.

How many "apps" like this have Linux? Besides my previous example I can think of Synaptic and Compiz, I guess.

EDITED: PAndora -> Sonata

CompyTheInsane
September 28th, 2011, 04:25 PM
Meanwhile, when I am running Windows I miss Empathy and Shotwell and Digikam and gEdit.

gEdit is also available for Windows. I haven't tried the Windows version, though.

benc1213
September 28th, 2011, 04:31 PM
gEdit is also available for Windows. I haven't tried the Windows version, though.

The windows version isn't too much different actually.

kaldor
September 28th, 2011, 04:38 PM
gEdit is also available for Windows. I haven't tried the Windows version, though.

I used to use Gedit on Windows but then I found Notepad++. It's a Windows-only program and it beats all the graphical text editors on Linux by a longshot. Yes, even with plugins. I still love my Emacs, though.

Banshee is one of my favourite Linux applications which isn't available for Windows. I can't see how anyone would enjoy using iTunes compared to Banshee. Even when I used a Mac for a while I always used VLC.

But for me, it's a matter of what platform my applications are running on. I prefer Linux to Windows even though all my programs have Windows versions (they're FOSS).

I use...

- LibreOffice
- Firefox
- Shotwell
- Banshee
- XChat (best IRC client!)
- Empathy
- Deluge
- GIMP
- Some others I am forgetting right now.

To me, these programs are definitely great. It's extremely obvious that MS Office is better than LibreOffice, and Photoshop is better than GIMP, etc. But to 99% of people it doesn't matter.

Do you really need Word to type up a report when LibreOffice does it for free instead of $100+? Do you really need to pirate/buy Photoshop just to edit some pictures or make forum sigs when GIMP does it just as well and still has more features than most people would ever use?

This is what makes these programs so great for me. They're free and they do everything I need them to do. I love using MS Office, but never have I said "argh I wish LibreOffice did ___", etc.

I'm not trying to turn this into a YouDon'tNeedThat(TM) post, but it's largely true. LibreOffice, Shotwell, etc, are all 5 star programs for me; I couldn't care less about the features I would never use on the non-Linux alternatives.

CompyTheInsane
September 28th, 2011, 04:58 PM
Of all desktop apps on Linux, I use the following:
- OpenShot (The only app I miss while on Windows)
- Pidgin*
- Firefox*
- Inkscape*
- gEdit

*Also used on Windows

zekopeko
September 28th, 2011, 05:07 PM
Banshee is one of my favourite Linux applications which isn't available for Windows.

You will be happy to know that there is a alpha Windows version of Banshee.

http://banshee.fm/download/

kaldor
September 28th, 2011, 05:12 PM
You will be happy to know that there is a beta Windows version of Banshee.

http://banshee.fm/download/

It's "alpha quality" and seems to be too slowly developed yet. On Win7 I usually just use VLC.

mutley89
September 28th, 2011, 05:22 PM
It's a bit daft to exclude anything that is not exclusive to Linux, then claim Linux has few great apps, considering that almost all software is open source, therefore if something becomes well-liked and there is a demand for it on other platforms, someone will probably port it.

Seq
September 28th, 2011, 05:43 PM
Firefox
Chrome
Gimp
Open Office
Thunderbird
Opera

Of all of those, only the gimp is a "Linux" app. All are cross-platform, but most of them (other than the gimp) focus on Windows as their primary platform.

I'm a full-time Linux user. My list would include:

mutt (although that might not count as a 'desktop' app)
screen (ditto)
guake

A lot of what makes Linux great is not desktop apps though, but all the stuff behind it. Starting from a fresh system, I can get all my favourite apps installed in about three commands. In windows, I'd have to hunt for .msi files and sit through install procedures.


Empathy. I don't know of any other Windows multi-protocol messenger application that also includes IRC chatting.

In Windows I can either use multiple messaging clients, or Trillian and iirc even Trillian does not have IRC support (it's been a while since I have used it).

Trillian started as an IRC client (in much, much different form). I'd be surprised if that was not an available protocol anymore. I haven't used it since around (iirc) 0.70. Maybe they have ditched it. Maybe they ditched it back then and I didn't care (there is a windows port of gaim/pidgin).

ninjaaron
September 28th, 2011, 06:12 PM
Just so everyone knows, it's ridiculous to demand that, to qualify as "a great Linux desktop app," the program must have exclusivity to Linux.

Any great FOSS application will become multi-platform. In fact, that's a pretty good measure of 'greatness;' demand across platforms.

By such a standard, there are hundereds of great apps that were originally developed for the *nix platform, but have been to good not to port.

Even several Window managers have been ported to OSX. Don't ask me how that works.

BrokenKingpin
September 28th, 2011, 06:13 PM
I don't get this. Personally, even when I'm on Windows, I use all the same apps that I'm using across my Linux installs. I just prefer the software. Libre Office, Firefox, Thunderbird, Handbrake, KeepassX, VLC, Gimp, Chrome. Then there's Clonezilla, all my favourite various emulators, Gnome-Do, K3b, just off the top of my head. Applications for Linux really isn't an issue for desktop users imho.
I agree 100%. Even when I am on Windows I use pretty much the same set of applications as I do on Linux.

el_koraco
September 28th, 2011, 06:54 PM
How did this turn into another "what apps I use, what apps I use on Windows and what apps I think Linux lacks + what apps I miss on Windows" thread?

rg4w
September 28th, 2011, 07:25 PM
The most important video ever made for the Ubuntu community:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT5fUcMUfYg

MG&TL
September 28th, 2011, 07:36 PM
Vim (it isn't really an app, but hey, there's gvim)
Firefox
Libreoffice

ninjaaron
September 28th, 2011, 07:55 PM
The most important video ever made for the Ubuntu community:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT5fUcMUfYg

Don't know about "most important ever," but it sure is a fantastic video.

Copper Bezel
September 28th, 2011, 08:57 PM
How did this turn into another "what apps I use, what apps I use on Windows and what apps I think Linux lacks + what apps I miss on Windows" thread?
To be fair, "what apps I use" is, roughly, on topic with the OP's question, since part of what Dragonbite asked was for people to pitch in with their "lists." Of course, I can't speak from your position of objectivity on this, but to be fair, I don't use all of the apps I listed. = )

I do think the more interesting question is whether or not de Icaza's is a fair assessment, sure, even if the context in the article really makes it sound like a small part of a bigger disillusionment on his part. It does all smack of "Linux needs X to be Y", but I am somewhat interested in desktop Linux's potential to be other things than what it is, even if (and particularly if) none of those things is "a Windows replacement." = )

madjr
September 28th, 2011, 09:55 PM
We are turning this thread in what it isnt.

People here just read the "title" and give their opinion, no one seemed to have read the article.

quoted from the article (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/370171/gnome-creator-linux-has-only-10-great-desktop-apps).


"We’ve managed to p*** off developers every step of the way, breaking APIs all the time."....
"Ubuntu from this week is incompatible with the one nine months ago."...


What he's referring to, is that the 6 month Upgrade cycle is flawed

He also mentions that there's lots of fragmentation.

We cant do too much about the fragmentation right now, but we can have a better cycle for app developers, users and OEMS

canonical has the power to remedy this situation on their platform, but seems to always postpone fixing it or even facing the issue...

ugm6hr
September 28th, 2011, 10:01 PM
In some specialized areas Linux is doing very well, for example pure scientific research. But I think your general point is a valid one.

Indeed. The academic world has always been partial to Linux and open source.

As for great desktop apps - I don't see how a great app (or even 10) will change anything in anything but specialist markets.

For example, the Mac was always popular in the (small) circle of media / publishing because of specific software. Marketing to the masses changed things - not a great application per se.

TheNosh
September 28th, 2011, 10:10 PM
Actually including Flock in a list of great Apps looks dumb. The point of listing multiple apps that have the same function is to illustrate that each of them are superior apps to a windows or mac equivalent.

1) Then why did you list things like Mplayer, Amarok, Clementine and VLC, which aren't superior to the Windows equivalent, because they ARE the Windows equivalent?

2) Flock may not be something I like, but my sister who does far more social networking than I do quite likes all of it's features. It's quality depends on how you want to use your browser.

Roasted
September 28th, 2011, 10:21 PM
As opposed to 10 great desktop apps for Windows?

I mean, granted everybody's mileage may vary, but I find far more applications that are relevant to me in regard to both work and personal in the Linux realm than I do in the Windows or Mac world.

Copper Bezel
September 29th, 2011, 08:16 AM
What he's referring to, is that the 6 month Upgrade cycle is flawed
In principle if not in particular, since he seems to know very little of Ubuntu and simply pulled the name out of a hat as an example.


Indeed. The academic world has always been partial to Linux and open source.
Well, as beew said, "some specialized areas." Certainly not the entire field of higher ed, cross-discipline, unless that's unique to the UK.

fishandchips
September 29th, 2011, 09:31 AM
Miguel de Icaza says?

<snip>

Why do people still listen to him, it's not as if his words are his own. He doesn't breath without Redmond's approval.

Lars Noodén
September 29th, 2011, 09:34 AM
Why can't the developer just be honest and admit the real problem is that there is no OEM that sells Linux PCs with high quality, a bit like Apple does with OS X?

Indeed. That's where the problem lies. Linux has sold well the few times it was allowed pre-installed. The real barrier is not in the OS, which surpasses Windows in most metrics, the real barrier is monopoly control over the Original Equipment Manufacturers. Even sale of dual booting has been prevented in the past.

koleoptero
September 29th, 2011, 12:38 PM
The cloud will render all great apps irrelevant in a decade or so anyway.

MG&TL
September 29th, 2011, 03:12 PM
I hope it doesn't. My bandwitdth is expensive enough as-is.

And the minerals we use currently for conventional computing are running out; so we might be replaced instead of cloud apps with no pc at all. Although I believe organic computing is coming. ;)

koleoptero
September 29th, 2011, 03:30 PM
I hope it doesn't. My bandwitdth is expensive enough as-is.

That's why I said in a decade. It'll get cheaper.


And the minerals we use currently for conventional computing are running out; so we might be replaced instead of cloud apps with no pc at all. Although I believe organic computing is coming. ;)

I wouldn't worry about that happening.

dyltman
September 29th, 2011, 03:37 PM
audacity, vim (guess that doesn't count as desktop app), xchat, transmission, firefox, thunderbird, gedit, empathy, opera, midori, chrome, vlc, banshee, spotify, gimp.

In my experience pretty much every application that ubuntu comes with by default are unlike windows awesome and do what they are supposed to. Why don't we try mention 10 great desktop apps for windows aswell and I'm sure you'd have the same list pretty much but with windows equivilant.

TeoBigusGeekus
September 29th, 2011, 05:01 PM
...For example, the Mac was always popular in the (small) circle of media / publishing because of specific software. Marketing to the masses changed things - not a great application per se.

Good luck doing the same with linux...

beew
September 29th, 2011, 05:10 PM
Good luck doing the same with linux...

Why so pessemistic? :)

beew
September 29th, 2011, 05:17 PM
Well, as beew said, "some specialized areas." Certainly not the entire field of higher ed, cross-discipline, unless that's unique to the UK.

In my university (a large research university in Canada) the hardcore pure science departments all use Linux or Unix (mathematics, physics, chemistry, computer science) and as you move out to medicine and engineering it is a mix of Winodws and Linux, and the when you move further out to the social sciences and humanities it is 100% windows, however, more and more professors and researchers in these departments are switching to Mac for their personal computers and laptops.

On campus I see most students using Apple laptops, Windows seems to be very uncool among 20 something crowd (Ubuntu however is super cool, when people see my laptop, they would ask "wtf??" is this Windows 9 or Mac??)

rg4w
September 29th, 2011, 07:26 PM
For example, the Mac was always popular in the (small) circle of media / publishing because of specific software. Marketing to the masses changed things - not a great application per se.
On the contrary, while marketing has sustained them and fashion certainly has been a cornerstone of their success over the last decade, the survival of the Mac can be traced to one application: PageMaker.

When the Mac first premiered in 1984, it was exciting but lacked sufficient self-evident utility to justify it's $2000 price tag for most people. Demoed with a recipe collection, it was a very expensive replacement for a recipe book. Speech generation was awesome, but had little practical utility at the time.

Marketers, evangelists, developers and pundits were all wondering: When will we see The Killer App? When will we see the one thing that can take full advantage of this new GUI to do things we could never do before?

During that time Mac sales were sluggish, and the internal strife over how to make it successful was so riven with conflict that Apple would eventually oust their founder, Steve Jobs, during the tumult.

Then along came a new language from, ironically enough, Adobe: PostScript.

By offering a sophisticated set of rendering instructions in a relatively easy to implement high-level, portable language, PostScript made it possible to create things like the LaserWriter, and the software to take full advantage of it, PageMaker.

Suddenly desktop publishing was born.

For just a couple thousand dollars you could get a Mac, a LaserWriter, and PageMaker, and have rich printed output at resolutions that challenged professional offset printing.

Were it not for PostScript, and the hardware and software that used it, desktop publishing might not have been born, and the Mac may well have taken many years to find its Killer App, if it found one at all.

prodigy_
September 29th, 2011, 08:11 PM
Almost everything that was mentioned (FF, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, etc.) has a Windows and/or Mac version. When I think of native Linux stuff, only command-line tools come to mind: sed, awk, ssh/sshfs, rsync, grep, iptables. Transmission is great. But only because you can run it as a daemon on some cli-only box controlling it remotely via web-interface.

Multimedia? You have to struggle with sound issues and video tearing, while a Windows user can sit back and enjoy. Gaming? It's all DirectX, Windows-native. Image editing? Web-design? Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Flash. Video editing? Premiere. VoIP? Skype.

That's the main (though no the only) reason why The Year of Desktop Linux is just a running gag.

mikefreeman
September 29th, 2011, 08:22 PM
For the most part, the big-name "great" apps on Linux are all cross-platform, so they exist in Windows as well. And to a small extent, the major Windows apps can be run in Linux with Wine or VirtualBox. So, I honestly don't see the point of the whole issue.

For me it's less a matter of having great apps, and more about having a great environment in which to run said apps.

I have yet to run into a problem finding software that does what I want on Linux, and I can customize the environment to fit my workflow and tastes. But I do have a problem getting the Windows environment from being anything less than an annoyance, no matter what software I'm running. So what does it matter how many "great" apps there are, as long as I can get my work done in a way that is useful, aesthetically pleasant, and efficient in my workflow.

That said, and just for the sake of playing along, here is a list of my favorite "great" apps in Linux (and yes, many are in Windows, too):

Gnome 2 Desktop (can't stand Gnome 3 or Unity, KDE is ok)
Musescore
Xiphos
Google Earth
Picasa (upgraded to latest Windows version)
Chromium (browser, not game)
Empathy
LibreOffice
Scribus
Kompozer
Celestia
Stellarium
XBMC
Hulu Desktop
Banshee
Audacity
DVD Styler
Handbrake
WinFF
OpenShot
VirtualBox
Ubuntu Tweak
BleachBit
3D Flash Animator (Windows program that runs perfectly in Wine)
Any terminal program running Bash
Quantz
Cogs
Osmos
World of Goo
Second Life
Torcs/Speed Dreams

Ok, I've more than tripled his 10! :)

MG&TL
September 29th, 2011, 08:35 PM
I wouldn't worry about that happening.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100125122101.htm

I think it'll be cool. Self-healing computers. But hey. Silicon's here to stay for now.

Copper Bezel
September 29th, 2011, 09:02 PM
And to a small extent, the major Windows apps can be run in Linux with Wine or VirtualBox. So, I honestly don't see the point of the whole issue.
Anything that requires emulating or virtualizing a Windows API is irrelevant. Wine is a dirty crack that occasionally works in an ugly, clunky way for a few very basic apps, and using Windows (often illegally) in a virtual machine is also called not using Linux.


Multimedia? You have to struggle with sound issues and video tearing, while a Windows user can sit back and enjoy.
Yeah, but we're talking about desktop apps, not drivers, and those problems only apply to unsupported hardware.

PayPaul
September 29th, 2011, 11:35 PM
I finally found the RAW Processor that could conceivably rival and overtake ACR(Adobe Camera Raw). It's called Darktable.

http://darktable.sourceforge.net/about.shtml

At first I feared the learning curve but with a little help from the online manual I've learned enough of the possibilities of this app to convince to use it full time.

Now if the GIMP would only have adjustment layers I'd be happy as a pig in....

Atamisk
September 30th, 2011, 12:25 AM
Sage.

Linux-only, itis core is FOSS, and better than Matlab in almost every conceivable way. This program is *literally* why i switched to linux.

PayPaul
September 30th, 2011, 01:42 AM
1) Then why did you list things like Mplayer, Amarok, Clementine and VLC, which aren't superior to the Windows equivalent, because they ARE the Windows equivalent?

2) Flock may not be something I like, but my sister who does far more social networking than I do quite likes all of it's features. It's quality depends on how you want to use your browser.
I thought Flock was dead, discontinued and decertified. Unless of course the developers continued it as Linux based browser.

This seems to be one of those threads that brings out the polarities in Linux/Ubuntu users. Quite fierce aren't some of you? I do hope this doesn't turn into a flame thread. It will be closed soon if that should happen. Guaranteed.

TheNosh
September 30th, 2011, 01:53 AM
I thought Flock was dead, discontinued and decertified. Unless of course the developers continued it as Linux based browser.

Ah. Quite right. I don't use it personally, so I hadn't noticed. I retract my previous statements regarding Flock.

I suppose if you want a browser with social networking integrated, Rockmelt would be the way to go these days.
http://www.rockmelt.com/

WinterMadness
September 30th, 2011, 02:41 AM
Theyre probably right, and, if we get anymore, it can probably be easily ported to windows...

beew
September 30th, 2011, 03:31 AM
Multimedia? You have to struggle with sound issues and video tearing, while a Windows user can sit back and enjoy. Gaming? It's all DirectX, Windows-native. Image editing? Web-design? Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Flash. Video editing? Premiere. VoIP? Skype.
.
I have never had any sound issue. There is some video tearing if I use nouveau driver but there is none if I install the Nvidia one, you may have some bad experience because of your hardware but please don't sound as though it is universal.

As for Photoshop and illustrator, how many Windows users you know actually use and pay for them, and their usage is such that they cannot be replaced by Gimp and Inkscape? I am not a web designer but based on speaking with some they don't really like Dreamweaver, it doesn't give them enough fine grain and low level control, they told me.

About one thing I do agree with Steve Jobs, flash is so yesterday.

(It seems that almost all your beef can be traced back to one company, namely Adobe)

P.S.Skype still works on Linux unless MS decides to kill it, I actually prefer the Linux clients' interface to that of Windows. It is not a killer app, the only reason why I need it is most people I talk to use it, but I have managed to use googletalk instead for some of my contacts already. There are other alternatives as well provided you can persuade your contacts to either install them parallel to Skype or simply sign up (faceflow is web based and doesn't require installation)

TheNosh
September 30th, 2011, 03:55 AM
As for Photoshop and illustrator, how many Windows users you know actually use and pay for them, and their usage is such that they cannot be replaced by Gimp and Inkscape?

While it's not Photoshop or Illustrator, I use Adobe Fireworks for image editing. I don't know about anyone else, but I get a lot of use out of vector layers.

GIMP's next release is supposed to have basic vector layer support in the next release. That, combined with finally offering a single window interface option will make arguments for GIMP a bit more valid. In its current state, though, GIMP simply does not work for my purposes.

Canis familiaris
September 30th, 2011, 05:32 AM
I must admit, I would be hard pressed to find even 10 "great" DESKTOP apps for Linux which are not available in Windows. Heck I am finding it hard to think even of one. Any great application I use is cross platform, while the linux exclusive ones are system tools, programming tools, or command line tools.
But this will happen, will any developer write a software exclusively for Linux ignoring the entire userbase of Windows and OS X? There's little or no chance of that.

If Miguel is claiming 10 is the total number of great desktop apps including the cross platform apps, then he is talking crap.

urukrama
September 30th, 2011, 03:33 PM
Apart from a few other ones already mentioned (Opera comes to mind), I would add Krusader, an absolutely terrific file manager.

PayPaul
October 1st, 2011, 02:20 AM
While it's not Photoshop or Illustrator, I use Adobe Fireworks for image editing. I don't know about anyone else, but I get a lot of use out of vector layers.

GIMP's next release is supposed to have basic vector layer support in the next release. That, combined with finally offering a single window interface option will make arguments for GIMP a bit more valid. In its current state, though, GIMP simply does not work for my purposes.


My beef with GIMP is the lack of adjustment layers. Everything else is basically what PS can do. But adjustment layers are very important to my work flow. They allow me to alter adjustments on the fly, they're non-destructive and can be deleted with no loss of impact should my creative vein run in one direction or another. The single window option is neither a deal maker or breaker. I've never really worked very much with vector graphics anyway so it's a non-starter.

murtuzakabul
October 1st, 2011, 02:31 AM
I can say that part of the statement is true. i.e. from the perspective of a developer, it is really hard to develop applications for linux as there are barely any standards. But, bravo linux developers, they have still managed to develop lots of wonderful applications so if someone is saying that there are only handful of great applications then I would say just take a fresh look. I am a developer and dedicatedly on linux without any problem, shouldn't it be enough!!