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View Full Version : Why thunderbird instead of just browser for web-based e-mail?



aburgess
September 25th, 2011, 07:12 AM
So I finally installed Thunderbird, only because I wanted to archive all my old stuff from Yahoo, but now I'm wondering . . . what else does this thing do? Why would I want that extra layer of software between me and my web-based e-mail for everyday use? What are the killer features I'm not getting here?

LowSky
September 25th, 2011, 07:40 AM
Offline mail is the biggest plus side especially if you email provider has a a very low storage capacity. Calendar support can be a huge plus as well if you need it and are not online all the time.

lisati
September 25th, 2011, 07:51 AM
More options for filtering is another advantage.

Thewhistlingwind
September 25th, 2011, 07:53 AM
1. You get to NOT use the web client! (Seriously, this is reason enough, most web clients suck.)

2. Whatever scripting is provided by your client

3. The features NOT supported by your providers web client.

4. Offline storage and archival, what would happen if your account was closed down this minute? Would you have your data handy? (This has happened to me, so don't act like it's an impossible thing.)

Also, do you REALLY want to visit their website, and log in EVERY time you need to read a mail?

On that note, it's not an extra layer, it's a different layer from the client. Clients should be interchangeable.

HermanAB
September 25th, 2011, 08:06 AM
Actually, Webmail presents an extra layer. An email client like Tbird interfaces directly with the mail server - no extra layer there.

PhilGil
September 25th, 2011, 08:56 AM
My main email account is with Yahoo, but I also have two Gmail accounts. I use Google calendar for appointments and Remember the Milk for tasks. A desktop client consolidates all this into a single interface.

In addition, I really dislike the Gmail interface. With Thunderbird, I can use Gmail but still have a traditional email client.

Bachstelze
September 25th, 2011, 09:04 AM
Actually, Webmail presents an extra layer. An email client like Tbird interfaces directly with the mail server - no extra layer there.

An email client, regardless of whether or not it is Web-based, interacts directly with the mail server. I fail to see your point.

Ceiber Boy
September 25th, 2011, 09:36 AM
PGP mail and attachment encryption with GPG.

Random_Dude
September 25th, 2011, 09:58 AM
It allows me to keep all my email accounts in one place and receive a notification when I get a new email.
I can just keep working without having that urge to open firefox to check my email, which most of the times leads to some procrastination. :oops:

BeRoot ReBoot
September 25th, 2011, 03:31 PM
I used to frown upon webmail clients and use alpine exclusively, but I've given up trying to sync offline mail between all of my computers and mobile devices. As far as I can tell, webmail is the easiest solution for this. I still keep an encrypted archive on my homeserver, so that is not an issue. And besides, the new gmail web client is actually usable, unlike every other webmail interface I've ever used.

wolfen69
September 25th, 2011, 05:38 PM
Why would I want that extra layer of software between me and my web-based e-mail for everyday use?

If you're like me and have 6 email accounts it's much easier to open 1 program to instantly check them all, than to log into each account one at a time. ;) Believe it or not, some people have multiple accounts.

BeRoot ReBoot
September 25th, 2011, 06:01 PM
If you're like me and have 6 email accounts it's much easier to open 1 program to instantly check them all, than to log into each account one at a time. ;) Believe it or not, some people have multiple accounts.

I just set all of mine to relay to my main gmail address, which I then either read online through any of my devices, archive locally on my server, or both.

aysiu
September 25th, 2011, 06:56 PM
I just set all of mine to relay to my main gmail address, which I then either read online through any of my devices, archive locally on my server, or both.
Gmail can do only POP3 for other accounts and not IMAP.

Also, some of us actually like being able to easily sort messages and put them into folders (not just "labels").

In Thunderbird, I can display and quickly scroll through thousands of messages. I can't do that in Gmail. I can also easily switch to the next unread message by pressing n. I can also have a preview window that loads messages instantly as I click on them. I don't have to constantly go back and forth between the message list and the message body.

I'm not saying Gmail's interface is terrible or that it has nothing to offer, but I get really tired of people making it sound as if desktop email clients have nothing to offer, just because Gmail can also aggregate other accounts.

BeRoot ReBoot
September 25th, 2011, 07:19 PM
I'm not saying Gmail's interface is terrible or that it has nothing to offer, but I get really tired of people making it sound as if desktop email clients have nothing to offer, just because Gmail can also aggregate other accounts.

I'm not claiming that, local email clients obviously have their uses. If I may ask, do you only read your email on a single computer? If not, how do you sync your it across your devices?

FuturePilot
September 25th, 2011, 07:21 PM
I hate webmail interfaces. They're all pretty bad and very limited compared to an email client IMO
More features such as better filtering options
Multiple email accounts

aysiu
September 25th, 2011, 07:25 PM
I'm not claiming that, local email clients obviously have their uses. If I may ask, do you only read your email on a single computer? If not, how do you sync your it across your devices?
I use multiple computers, multiple devices, actually. That's the beauty of IMAP. Whatever I do to my email on one computer happens automatically on the other without the need for a webmail interface.

FuturePilot
September 25th, 2011, 07:27 PM
I use multiple computers, multiple devices, actually. That's the beauty of IMAP. Whatever I do to my email on one computer happens automatically on the other without the need for a webmail interface.

+1 for IMAP

galacticaboy
September 25th, 2011, 07:36 PM
I find an email client pointless. Why use it when I can just click on my Hotmail or Gmail bookmark in my browser, I am auto logged in and there it is... I just find it pointless, at least for me.

BeRoot ReBoot
September 25th, 2011, 07:41 PM
I use multiple computers, multiple devices, actually. That's the beauty of IMAP. Whatever I do to my email on one computer happens automatically on the other without the need for a webmail interface.

Oh, so this is how people can stand to use local email clients. Thanks, it all makes sense now. :D

castrojo
September 25th, 2011, 10:29 PM
Oh, so this is how people can stand to use local email clients. Thanks, it all makes sense now. :D

Yeah but that only syncs mail, if you want to sync your contacts you need something else.

khelben1979
September 25th, 2011, 10:46 PM
From my own experience, the web browser (regardless of what I choose) has a tendency to crash every now and then and I find it more unstable than the e-mail client Thunderbird. So for stability, I would prefer a less advanced application for e-mail. The more features, the more risk for crashes and it's not what interests me.

I'm not all pleased by the features of Thunderbird and how it behaves, but I think it works OK and if my PC isn't filled with dust, it never crashes, not even once on the system I'm using.

Using a web interface for dealing with e-mails is slow and it feels inefficient and I highly dislike it. It's good that it's possible though, since I can read my e-mail when I'm not at home, but for effiency, it's totally useless and I also don't like how Google have decided to store my e-mails on their servers even though I don't want to, but I'm going a bit off topic here... Still, I want to have full control over what I'm doing and handling my e-mail and have them stored directly on my hard disc feels more secure than leaving them on the web...

I experience Thunderbird fast and efficient and that's what counts in how I look at it. Using the web browser slows it down too much.

XubuRoxMySox
September 25th, 2011, 11:05 PM
I'm one of those kids who still fills personal correspondence with lots of formatting, little animated gifs, pictures, and whatnots. Much easier to do in a full-featured client like Thunderbird than in most of the web interfaces. Plus if I have multiple accounts I don't have to learn multiple web interfaces. Just do it all in one application.

It's the same way with web forums, actually. I think e-mail loops (lists, e-mail groups, listservs) are alot easier because I don't have to learn all the different web interfaces and codes (BB, HTML, whatever). Just the same good ol' familiar software works on all of them.

An offline forum reader like this one (http://free-offline-forum-reader.softplatz.net/) (for Windows) would be awesome in Linux and would serve the same purpose for forums that Thunderbird or Seamonkey serves for e-mail loops.

Lastly, it's particularly nice for offline reading and writing for those on dialup or other "not always on" internet services.

speedwell68
September 25th, 2011, 11:20 PM
I find an email client pointless. Why use it when I can just click on my Hotmail or Gmail bookmark in my browser, I am auto logged in and there it is... I just find it pointless, at least for me.

If you get lots of important mails, the ability to archive and filter your mail efficiently is a must.

SeijiSensei
September 26th, 2011, 01:21 AM
I just set all of mine to relay to my main gmail address, which I then either read online through any of my devices, archive locally on my server, or both.

How do you handle your multiple sender identities? In Thunderbird I can choose from a list of alternate From addresses. How do you do that in a gmail account to which other accounts are forwarded? If I sent a message to you@example.com, I'm probably expecting a reply from you@example.com, not someoneelse@gmail.com.

aysiu
September 26th, 2011, 01:32 AM
How do you handle your multiple sender identities? In Thunderbird I can choose from a list of alternate From addresses. How do you do that in a gmail account to which other accounts are forwarded? If I sent a message to you@example.com, I'm probably expecting a reply from you@example.com, not someoneelse@gmail.com.
You can set this up in Gmail. You just have to enter in the correct SMTP account information.

FuturePilot
September 26th, 2011, 05:11 AM
Yeah but that only syncs mail, if you want to sync your contacts you need something else.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/google-contacts/

juancarlospaco
September 26th, 2011, 05:33 AM
So for stability, I would prefer a less advanced application for e-mail. The more features, the more risk for crashes and it's not what interests me.


You can use email from netcat
(i used that for scripts)

Copper Bezel
September 26th, 2011, 05:47 AM
Evolution turned me off of local clients, but there's no question that they come with a lot of advantages. I should probably give Thunderbird a go. I mean, for me, it's as simple as little things, like having my mail separate from my browser in the dock and being able to check for new mail without loading a browser and point it somewhere (which I manage for now by having the Gmail Chrome app pinned to the dock and always running.) Naturally, that's not the only advantage. Just being able to, as aysiu mentioned, just have the entire inbox as a scrollable, searchable list instead of a clumsy twenty- or forty-up "paged" list is very nearly a killer feature in itself.

HuaiDan
September 26th, 2011, 05:47 AM
With most webmail clients, you have the option of configuring password protection for your inbox, so every time you close your email, you can rest assured the next person who uses the computer won't have access to your inbox. The most popular mail clients in Linux, such as Evolution and Thunderbird, don't even allow users this option, leaving your private messages flying in the breeze for anyone to see.
Use webmail if you value security.

Bachstelze
September 26th, 2011, 06:08 AM
With most webmail clients, you have the option of configuring password protection for your inbox, so every time you close your email, you can rest assured the next person who uses the computer won't have access to your inbox. The most popular mail clients in Linux, such as Evolution and Thunderbird, don't even allow users this option, leaving your private messages flying in the breeze for anyone to see.
Use webmail if you value security.

Not sure if trolling...

HuaiDan
September 26th, 2011, 06:15 AM
Not sure if trolling...

How is it trolling?I admit, maybe ignorance, but I have yet to find a way to password protect my inbox on POP3 access. Sure, a password is required to download/upload new messages, but existing messages can be seen merely by opening the client. If I'm wrong, I'll apologize and be grateful for the tip.

aysiu
September 26th, 2011, 06:21 AM
How is it trolling?I admit, maybe ignorance, but I have yet to find a way to password protect my inbox on POP3 access. Sure, a password is required to download/upload new messages, but existing messages can be seen merely by opening the client. If I'm wrong, I'll apologize and be grateful for the tip.
The key is to turn off message synchronization (offline use) and to use IMAP instead of POP3. You should also use a Master Password for Thunderbird.

That said, if you really value your privacy, it's actually best just not to have people using your user account on your computer at all.

HuaiDan
September 26th, 2011, 07:43 AM
The key is to turn off message synchronization (offline use) and to use IMAP instead of POP3. You should also use a Master Password for Thunderbird.

That said, if you really value your privacy, it's actually best just not to have people using your user account on your computer at all.
Hotmail is only accessible using POP3, so IMAP isn't an option. I haven't tried Gmail. If you're referring to Master Password as an add-on for T-brid, I tried it and was still able to see the contents of my inbox without entering the master password.
As for user account security, I've heard that elsewhere, but that's really not a feasible solution in many situations: "Sure, best friend, you can use my computer. Just let me log off my account and sign you in as guest because that's how much I trust you. I hope you don't mind me standing over your shoulder while you use my computer." I've read many threads on the same topic, and the argument goes around and round. I'm of the opinion that each account in a mail client should be configurable to be password protected. Not necessarily by default, but I can't comprehend why the option isn't afforded.

aysiu
September 26th, 2011, 08:11 AM
Hotmail is only accessible using POP3, so IMAP isn't an option. That's a bummer.
I haven't tried Gmail. If you're referring to Master Password as an add-on for T-brid, I tried it and was still able to see the contents of my inbox without entering the master password. That's because you're using POP3. Turning off synchronization is irrelevant with POP3, because the whole point of POP3 is that local copies of the messages are downloaded to your computer.
As for user account security, I've heard that elsewhere, but that's really not a feasible solution in many situations: "Sure, best friend, you can use my computer. Just let me log off my account and sign you in as guest because that's how much I trust you. I hope you don't mind me standing over your shoulder while you use my computer." So instead you'll say "Hey, wait for me to go to my Hotmail webmail account and log out first"?
I've read many threads on the same topic, and the argument goes around and round. I'm of the opinion that each account in a mail client should be configurable to be password protected. Not necessarily by default, but I can't comprehend why the option isn't afforded. Because you really are supposed to log your friend into a guest account... seriously. The only time I don't do this is when someone says "Can I just check something really quickly?" and then I do step away from my computer and look over her shoulder for the 30 seconds or a minute she's checking something. If she's using my computer for 20 minutes or an hour, I don't see why a guest account login isn't warranted or is such a big deal. Mac OS X, Ubuntu, and Windows all allow for fast user switching (so you don't actually have to log out--you can just make it so they're logged in and can't access your session).

earthpigg
September 26th, 2011, 08:45 AM
Of those who only check gmail on a regular basis (I check the others once a month or so), who still prefers client-side software to web interface?

What are the pros and cons?

(I skimmed the thread, but without this specificity I'm not convinced I should re-evaluate my current approach. Gmail is a firefox app tab, and all is well in the universe. When isn't my web browser open, at least in minimized form?)

drumsticks
September 26th, 2011, 11:26 AM
So that I can use my favorite text editor's key bindings (Emacs).

So that I don't have to deal with network latency when checking for email, sorting, refiling, etc (OfflineImap+sendmail).

So that I can use encryption (GnuPG).

So that I can build my own spam/ham rules (Bogofilter).

BrokenKingpin
September 26th, 2011, 05:58 PM
I hate the gmail webclient; Thunderbird is far better at managing my emails. I generally don't like web applications, so being able to manage my email account with a desktop application is ideal. I also like the offline support for emails, contacts, calendar, etc...

It handles RSS feeds as well.

malspa
September 27th, 2011, 03:30 PM
I've been following this thread with interest. What about someone like me who regularly uses different distros? I have a multi-boot set-up on my main pc and a dual-boot set-up on my laptop -- all Linux. Seems like it would be a pain to set up Thunderbird for each distro, and perhaps it would lead to other headaches that I'm not thinking of. So I just use the browser to get to my Gmail account, and my 2 Yahoo accounts.

CharlesA
September 27th, 2011, 03:45 PM
You can always backup the profile and restore it on the other install.

I'm wondering how much of a pain it would be to convert a pop3 account to imap. It looks easy judging from the mozilla docs (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Convert_a_POP_account_to_a_IMAP_account), but that was written in 2007.

cap10Ibraim
September 27th, 2011, 04:22 PM
I don't need to store emails om my PC
Gmail filtering and auto sorting is really powerful
labels are folders - deal with it
simple applet or browser plugin and you will get notified
for me gmail(not any web based email client) is better

aysiu
September 27th, 2011, 05:02 PM
I've been following this thread with interest. What about someone like me who regularly uses different distros? I have a multi-boot set-up on my main pc and a dual-boot set-up on my laptop -- all Linux. Seems like it would be a pain to set up Thunderbird for each distro, and perhaps it would lead to other headaches that I'm not thinking of. So I just use the browser to get to my Gmail account, and my 2 Yahoo accounts.
Do whatever works for you.

I have no problems with people saying "I prefer webmail" or "Webmail works for me." I do have a problem with people saying "Why on earth would anyone use an email client when she could be using webmail? There are no advantages to an email client" or anything of the like.

People have different situations and different preferences.

malspa
September 27th, 2011, 06:05 PM
Do whatever works for you.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up the entire thread, doesn't it?