Terminal, why Terminal?

[galacticaboy]

Just a quick question. I love Linux, do not get me wrong, I think Linux is the best thing to ever happen to the world, but... why the Terminal? I mean in Windows, I don't think I ever opened a terminal, well other than to run 'chkdsk' and 'chkdsk /F' but that was it. In Linux, it is almost as if your whole experience revolves around the Terminal, Installing, Updating, Problem solving. I know some of these do have GUI front ends, but every time I see answers to questions on here I see, "What does it say in the Terminal?" or "Open up your terminal and type this in..." I was just wondering, why the terminal? Why not like Windows where you barely have to open it? Just something I was wondering...

[hakermania]

Because Linux provides you with tools for trouble shooting while windows not

Thumbs up if you agree

[Bachstelze]

inb4recurring

Linux Is Not Windows™

[galacticaboy]

Because Linux provides you with tools for trouble shooting while windows not

Thumbs up if you agree

But I have never had problems like that on Windows, I have always had the tools to troubleshoot. I used to do that for a living for a while, Troubleshoot Windows PCs for people. If it was not for Windows, I believe there would be no Tech jobs haha

[galacticaboy]

But I have never had problems like that on Windows, I have always had the tools to troubleshoot. I used to do that for a living for a while, Troubleshoot Windows PCs for people. If it was not for Windows, I believe there would be no Tech jobs haha

It just seems that EVERYTHING is terminal based in Linux, I wish they could kinda migrate a bit away from the Terminal and give us "Other" ways to troubleshoot... idk, just something I would like.

[haqking]

But I have never had problems like that on Windows, I have always had the tools to troubleshoot. I used to do that for a living for a while, Troubleshoot Windows PCs for people. If it was not for Windows, I believe there would be no Tech jobs haha

most linux users can get away with never using terminal.

Dont get me wrong it is the tool of choice, but the point is there i no requirement generally, most things can be done GUI for the non initiated, it is just that alot of support posts say use the terminal cos its what we are used to using.

We always say go do a apt-get update blah blah

but the user can use update manager instead to do same thing ;-)

[haqking]

But I have never had problems like that on Windows, I have always had the tools to troubleshoot. I used to do that for a living for a while, Troubleshoot Windows PCs for people. If it was not for Windows, I believe there would be no Tech jobs haha


troubleshooting windows without command prompt is also a non techie way of doing things.

how you gonna do a ipconfig /all ipconfig/flushdns or ping or tracert without installing an addon ?

[Bachstelze]

It just seems that EVERYTHING is terminal based in Linux, I wish they could kinda migrate a bit away from the Terminal and give us "Other" ways to troubleshoot... idk, just something I would like.

Define "they".

[galacticaboy]

inb4recurring

Linux Is Not Windows™

... and I never said Linux was Windows... thank God it is not. I am just wondering why Linux chooses to go the Terminal route rather than GUI route.

[Vishal Agarwal]

Terminal, why Terminal?

windows is a system for hardworking persons;
while linux is a system for hardly working persons.

that's why in the terminal is there in linux but it is not required in windows.

[Bachstelze]

... and I never said Linux was Windows... thank God it is not. I am just wondering why Linux chooses to go the Terminal route rather than GUI route.

And I'm asking you why you think it should go the GUI route. Your only answer seems to be "because that's how Windows does it".

[haqking]

It just seems that EVERYTHING is terminal based in Linux, I wish they could kinda migrate a bit away from the Terminal and give us "Other" ways to troubleshoot... idk, just something I would like.


tell us what you want to do and we will tell you how to do it, or are we not they ? ;-) LOL

[haqking]

... and I never said Linux was Windows... thank God it is not. I am just wondering why Linux chooses to go the Terminal route rather than GUI route.


it doesnt go the terminal route, terminal is there if you need the power of it, as is command prompt in windows if you need the power of it.

[hakermania]

No reason to be like that about it.
Just wanted to point out how much more free linux are in comparison to windows.

As other buddies posted above, you can do everything you need from the GUI, but terminal is more convenient most of the times.
For example, what if I want to copy a binary to /usr/bin? If I select 'Copy' from nautilus and browse to /usr/bin for pasting, it will load for ages (because there are thousands of files there)!
Simply in terminal: cp x /usr/bin

It's more convenient in such tasks and for troubleshooting!

[galacticaboy]

tell us what you want to do and we will tell you how to do it, or are we not they ? ;-) LOL

All I am saying is I have tried to get people into Linux, but the minute I open that terminal ONE time, they are done, when I first started Linux, I hated the terminal, it was my worst enemy. Everytime I turned around I was being told to open it and do this in it, or do that. I was so confused that I gave up on Linux so many times. I know there are distros out there that say they are great for beginners, but people still tell you to open the terminal. The people I have tried to get to use Linux have all told me, if it was not for the Terminal they would gladly switch.

[szymon_g]

It just seems that EVERYTHING is terminal based in Linux, I wish they could kinda migrate a bit away from the Terminal and give us "Other" ways to troubleshoot... idk, just something I would like.

modern windows (i.e. NT based) was designed "with graphics in mind". i.e. there were no seperated "system" (i mean: there was only windows, not a windows + text console)- therefore developpers do /most of the stuff/ "in graphic mode". in linux, you have got X11 /which is pretty crappy btw/+ dozen of DE and WM /kde, gnome2, gnome3, xfce, *box family etc/. and, if that not enough, you have got gtk2, gtk3, Qt3, Qt4 and upcoming Qt 5. Developping graphical program that would look and behave everywhere in similar matter is simply speaking, pain in the ****. that's why, quite often, it is much easier to develop something 'for console use only'.
also, remember- linux is used mostly on servers; you have to be able to automate tasks easily. GUI automation isn't as easy as automation of console programs.

simon

/// edit
ah, i forgot to mention: windows also have got a console ("terminal"). its called powershell, its really powerfull

[haqking]

All I am saying is I have tried to get people into Linux, but the minute I open that terminal ONE time, they are done, when I first started Linux, I hated the terminal, it was my worst enemy. Everytime I turned around I was being told to open it and do this in it, or do that. I was so confused that I gave up on Linux so many times. I know there are distros out there that say they are great for beginners, but people still tell you to open the terminal. The people I have tried to get to use Linux have all told me, if it was not for the Terminal they would gladly switch.

yes but like i said depends what you are doing.

give us an example ?

and back to windows like i said before how you gonna do a ipconfig /flushdns or a ping without adding a third party gui addon ? no you use command prompt

CLI to encompass them both is a power users tool

[galacticaboy]

modern windows (i.e. NT based) was designed "with graphics in mind". i.e. there were no seperated "system" (i mean: there was only windows, not a windows + text console)- therefore developpers do /most of the stuff/ "in graphic mode". in linux, you have got X11 /which is pretty crappy btw/+ dozen of DE and WM /kde, gnome2, gnome3, xfce, *box family etc/. and, if that not enough, you have got gtk2, gtk3, Qt3, Qt4 and upcoming Qt 5. Developping graphical program that would look and behave everywhere in similar matter is simply speaking, pain in the ****. that's why, quite often, it is much easier to develop something 'for console use only'.
also, remember- linux is used mostly on servers; you have to be able to automate tasks easily. GUI automation isn't as easy as automation of console programs.

simon

/// edit
ah, i forgot to mention: windows also have got a console ("terminal"). its called powershell, its really powerfull


Thank you. Explains it a little better, I did forget that it is used on Servers alot.

[Oxwivi]

Terminal is a powerful tool, it gets things done in one go. One reason why Linux is more 'terminal-centric' is because, most of the tools we use to troubleshoot is the one running in the background - it's a system application. The GUI for those are are simply front-ends - they were not designed for the GUI. Linux applications from the get-go was designed to work from the Terminal unlike Windows.

[nothingspecial]

Because when my screen looks like this

201800

Even though you can see I'm just browsing the internet, listening to music and looking at #ubuntu.....

....everybody who walks past my monitor thinks I'm working :-$


:-\"

[haqking]

because when my screen looks like this

201800

even though you can see i'm just browsing the internet, listening to music and looking at #ubuntu.....

....everybody who walks past my monitor thinks i'm working :-$


:-\"


lol :8-):

[galacticaboy]

Because when my screen looks like this

201800

Even though you can see I'm just browsing the internet, listening to music and looking at #ubuntu.....

....everybody who walks past my monitor thinks I'm working :-$


:-\"

Well, I never thought of it that way! haha

[hakermania]

Because when my screen looks like this

201800

Even though you can see I'm just browsing the internet, listening to music and looking at #ubuntu.....

....everybody who walks past my monitor thinks I'm working :-$


:-\"

Hey, what's the player :) ?

[nothingspecial]

Hey, what's the player :) ?

squeezeslave

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezeSlave

[gutterslob]

Not going to get into the Windows vs Linux thing, but

Say you have 3 people running Ubuntu. Person 1 is on Gnome, Person 2 is on KDE, and Person 3 uses Fluxbox.

Now if 3 of them experience the same problem, to solve it;
- Person 1 would have to click on this widget A to go into menu B and check this box.
- Person 2 has to click on plasmoid A, which leads to that menu B which leads to some settings in box C.
- Person 3 will have to right-click to open menu X, go to option Y and select setting Z.

Kind of a PITA to troubleshoot 3 different people working with 3 different environments, isn't it?

Now what do these 3 people's distro have in common?

[hakermania]

squeezeslave

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezeSlave

Thanks :D

[haqking]

Not going to get into the Windows vs Linux thing, but

Say you have 3 people running Ubuntu. Person 1 is on Gnome, Person 2 is on KDE, and Person 3 uses Fluxbox.

Now if 3 of them experience the same problem, to solve it;
- Person 1 would have to click on this widget A to go into menu B and check this box.
- Person 2 has to click on plasmoid A, which leads to that menu B which leads to some settings in box C.
- Person 3 will have to right-click to open menu X, go to option Y and select setting Z.

Kind of a PITA to troubleshoot 3 different people working with 3 different environments, isn't it?

Now what do these 3 people's distro have in common?


+1

Great response, well put !

[galacticaboy]

Not going to get into the Windows vs Linux thing, but

Say you have 3 people running Ubuntu. Person 1 is on Gnome, Person 2 is on KDE, and Person 3 uses Fluxbox.

Now if 3 of them experience the same problem, to solve it;
- Person 1 would have to click on this widget A to go into menu B and check this box.
- Person 2 has to click on plasmoid A, which leads to that menu B which leads to some settings in box C.
- Person 3 will have to right-click to open menu X, go to option Y and select setting Z.

Kind of a PITA to troubleshoot 3 different people working with 3 different environments, isn't it?

Now what do these 3 people's distro have in common?

Very nice!

[BrokenKingpin]

I use the terminal every day in Windows... just depends on what you use your computer for I suppose.

I can get by quite easily without the terminal on Linux, but often I just find it easier to do something from command line (like installing packages).

[Bodsda]

Interestingly, microsoft are following suite, with the introduction of PowerShell by default in Win7 and 2008R2

I think the big thing about the terminal vs cmd is that programs print output to stdout which will appear on the terminal if run from there. This is unbelievably useful for troubleshooting. Try and do the same thing in cmd, you wont get any output.

I can use the terminal to print any number of system specific information, version numbers, package lists, error messages.



dmesg | tail -n 5 > forHelp.txt && ifconfig >> forHelp.txt && uname -a >> forHelp.txt && cat /proc/cpuinfo >> forHelp.txt; pastebin forHelp.txt


I can ask someone to run the above code and give me the outputted link. That will tell me the last 5 lines of errors, their network card info, their system version and a complete breakdown of their CPU. How much easier was that, then this.



Please open the event viewer, export the log to a file
Please go to network connections, right click on your adapter, select TCP/IP, select properties, Please write down everything you see into a file
Please right click My Computer and select properties, write down everything you see into a file
Please take a guess at what your CPU breakdwn is and write it into a file.
Please open a web browser, go to msn, log in, create an email, attach those files, enter my email address, click send
.....
......
Delete the non-delivery report, resend the message to my email address (spell it properly this time)
......
.....
Thanks


So much easier :)

Bodsda

[Famicube64]

Because Linux provides you with tools for trouble shooting while windows not

Thumbs up if you agree
I pressed the dislike button.

[3rdalbum]

OP: You've never used ipconfig? You've never had to type/paste in some big long incomprehensible string starting with "rundll32.exe"? Are you sure you've done ANY troubleshooting at all on Windows? :-P

[BeRoot ReBoot]

Because it's more consistent across DEs, distributions and even different POSIX-compliant operating systems. It's far easier to tell someone how to solve a problem in a terminal emulator than to try walking him through pointing and clicking around his preferred desktop.

[chegarty]

The terminal is powerful and flexible. For many tasks, terminal usage is faster and more intuitive than poking around with the GUI. The downside is that the terminal has its own protocols that have a bit of a learning curve. However, learning to use the terminal will reap dividends not only because certain common tasks can be executed more expeditiously with the terminal but also because the terminal allows a user to understand the operating system more intimately than the GUI.


“...graphical user interfaces make
easy tasks easy, while command line interfaces make difficult tasks possible.

This book is particularly useful those who wish to learn the Linux CLI (http://voxel.dl.sourceforge.net/project/linuxcommand/TLCL/09.12/TLCL-09.12.pdf)

[a2j]

I use the terminal every day in Windows... just depends on what you use your computer for I suppose.

I can get by quite easily without the terminal on Linux, but often I just find it easier to do something from command line (like installing packages).

this

you don't need terminal for email, web browsing, word processing, etc...

[disabledaccount]

...because I can write shell script that will do everething for me, so I can save time for entertainment :)

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I had some experience with virtualization and Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud; so, when the company I work for was looking for someone to test a virtualized datacenter they were building, they asked me to do it. The datacenter has 100 servers and hundreds of TB of SAN storage. It uses VMware for virtualization, uses Windows and Linux operating systems, and many enterprise system management applications.

When I started to plan my tests, I asked the Windows system administrators what tasks they performed and how they did them. I was surprised just how often they use the command console. I did it all the time with Linux; however, not being a Windows system administrator, I really had no idea how useful it is for them. It was a good learning experience. Yes, they used Windows PowerShell.

I have used Windows at home; however, it was Linux were I learned about administering a system. As a Windows and Linux desktop user, you don't really do very much system administration.

With Linux, and all the DEs available, it is easier on the Ubuntu forum to give terminal commands rather than determining what DE the person is using in order to give a GUI based solution.

[CharlesA]

...because I can write shell script that will do everething for me, so I can save time for entertainment :)
This. Shell scripts are pure win (as long as you write them correctly). ;)

[sffvba[e0rt]

I have also never used CLI to troubleshoot a Windows install... they make sure you have authentic disc's for a reason, use them ;)


404

[disabledaccount]

Shell scripts are pure win (as long as you write them correctly). ;)
Nothing can be worse than self-modyfying code in bash... and nothing more powerfull :)

[haqking]

I have also never used CLI to troubleshoot a Windows install... they make sure you have authentic disc's for a reason, use them ;)


404


youve never done a ipconfig /all or ipconfig /flushdns, tracert, ping, etc ? ;-)

[CharlesA]

youve never done a ipconfig /all or ipconfig /flushdns, tracert, ping, etc ? ;-)

ipconfig /release work too? ;)

[haqking]

ipconfig /release work too? ;)

indeed: /all /release /renew /flushdns /registerdns /displaydns /showclassid /setclassid

if i troubleshoot window usually within the first 5 minutes i end up in CLI.

it is universal for all OS.

Sure windows is not built on CLI anymore but it is still there for power users, and now there is power shell too.

anyways i think the OP has been answered now ;-)

[sffvba[e0rt]

youve never done a ipconfig /all or ipconfig /flushdns, tracert, ping, etc ? ;-)

Nope, but I have re-installed Windows many...many...many...many...etc times :p


404

[nothingspecial]

Ok, I gave a facetious......


......how did I spell facetious?

....I typed
look fac

and scrolled down till I got it.

....answer before.

The truth is, for me, the terminal is just faster and easier.

That is why, when booted into windows, I have putty and cygwin as my default apps........

......btw, how do you get these things to autostart?

In the end, it's just what you are used too. :D

[CharlesA]

indeed: /all /release /renew /flushdns /registerdns /displaydns /showclassid /setclassid

if i troubleshoot window usually within the first 5 minutes i end up in CLI.

it is universal for all OS.

Sure windows is not built on CLI anymore but it is still there for power users, and now there is power shell too.

anyways i think the OP has been answered now ;-)

They have powershell now too. I think the first things I do is drop to CLI to see what is going on, as well.

[haqking]

That is why, when booted into windows, I have putty and cygwin as my default apps........

......btw, how do you get these things to autostart?



put them in the startup folder and make sure by running msconfig from the run command that they are configured to start up automatically......if i remember righlty, been a while ;-)

[IWantFroyo]

It's much easier to give directions via terminal.

Windows tutorials go like this:
Open this program, click on this, be sure not to click on this, etc.

A Linux tutorial is much simpler:
Open your terminal and type "etc."

I'd rather do something by typing in one line of something (or ctrl-c/p) instead of going through a whole bunch of GUI crap. That's one of the reasons I don't use Windows, anyways.

[nothingspecial]

put them in the startup folder and make sure by running msconfig from the run command that they are configured to start up automatically......if i remember righlty, been a while ;-)

I have absolutely no idea how to do that. :)

I'll figure it out though :P

[bodhi.zazen]

Just a quick question. I love Linux, do not get me wrong, I think Linux is the best thing to ever happen to the world, but... why the Terminal? I mean in Windows, I don't think I ever opened a terminal, well other than to run 'chkdsk' and 'chkdsk /F' but that was it. In Linux, it is almost as if your whole experience revolves around the Terminal, Installing, Updating, Problem solving. I know some of these do have GUI front ends, but every time I see answers to questions on here I see, "What does it say in the Terminal?" or "Open up your terminal and type this in..." I was just wondering, why the terminal? Why not like Windows where you barely have to open it? Just something I was wondering...

Linux is not windows, and unlike windows the terminal is actually informative in Linux.

Not every application has a graphical front end, and those that do do not always offer all the options available.

iptables for example. Tons of graphical front ends, but not that offer all the options in man iptables.

When trying to solve a problem, the information in the logs or error messages on the command line are invaluable.

When providing a solution


sudo bodhi's cool awk fix is much easier then

go to your menu, click foo, bar if you use kde, foo_bar if xfce ...

Now click the advanced tab, show all, click the awk button, now enter


bodhi's cool awk fix

click ok ..

[alexan]

what about the "I absolutely trust you, don't bother me anymore with question"


sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade -y


...also batch convert of media files.



CLI is more like "the bones" of an idea. when you want to do something cool but no one put flesh (GUi) on the bones (idea)

[sffvba[e0rt]

CLI is more like "the bones" of an idea. when you want to do something cool but no one put flesh (GUi) on the bones (idea)

More like CLI is the man... er... person and GUI is clothes... nice to have but not essential...


404

[JD8182]

Just a quick question. I love Linux, do not get me wrong, I think Linux is the best thing to ever happen to the world, but... why the Terminal? I mean in Windows, I don't think I ever opened a terminal, well other than to run 'chkdsk' and 'chkdsk /F' but that was it. In Linux, it is almost as if your whole experience revolves around the Terminal, Installing, Updating, Problem solving. I know some of these do have GUI front ends, but every time I see answers to questions on here I see, "What does it say in the Terminal?" or "Open up your terminal and type this in..." I was just wondering, why the terminal? Why not like Windows where you barely have to open it? Just something I was wondering...

I have dabbled with Ubuntu for the last few years, by far, I am not an expert, but enjoy the fine qualities of this Operating System. Why the terminal you ask?, actually I enjoy using the commands of the terminal, for 1. because 99.9 percent of what I did in Windows was terminal free and this is different, and 2. Because I can copy and paste and this seems to work well in the terminal and seems to take less resource to run than the GUI installation.. The terminal just seems to be an alternative way of doing things in Linux, doesn't it get boring doing the same ole thing over and over. At least there are alternatives in Linux.. Just my 2 cents have a wonderful day.. :)

[hewbert]

It's one of those things that you appreciate once you're proficient with it.

If you spent time with a *nix shell, you'd have the answer to your question. As others have said, there's things you can do in a second or so using CLI that would be cumbersome with a GUI. Pipes and the underlying tools make the command line extremely efficient. Non *nix people seem to think the command line is an antique, probably associating it with DOS or something. It's not antiquated at all.

That said, if you don't need it don't use it. My mom has ran Ubuntu for 3 years and has never used a command line, let alone even know what it is.

[snip3r8]

Best way to use terminal EVAR!!! http://jstn.cc/post/8692501831

[Drenriza]

When using linux i use the terminal 98% of the time. Its easy, to the point and never fails me. So why use something else?

I moved away from windows because the terminal their, is very bad and not very flexiable. In my opinion.
Today i 100% only use windows visual studio, or else i dont use windows.

[Retlol]

Just a quick question. I love Linux, do not get me wrong, I think Linux is the best thing to ever happen to the world, but... why the Terminal? I mean in Windows, I don't think I ever opened a terminal, well other than to run 'chkdsk' and 'chkdsk /F' but that was it. In Linux, it is almost as if your whole experience revolves around the Terminal, Installing, Updating, Problem solving. I know some of these do have GUI front ends, but every time I see answers to questions on here I see, "What does it say in the Terminal?" or "Open up your terminal and type this in..." I was just wondering, why the terminal? Why not like Windows where you barely have to open it? Just something I was wondering...

Easier to say "command x" than to say "open this, click that, do that, click this, ... ".

[donkyhotay]

Interestingly, microsoft are following suite, with the introduction of PowerShell by default in Win7 and 2008R2

I think the big thing about the terminal vs cmd is that programs print output to stdout which will appear on the terminal if run from there. This is unbelievably useful for troubleshooting. Try and do the same thing in cmd, you wont get any output.

I can use the terminal to print any number of system specific information, version numbers, package lists, error messages.



dmesg | tail -n 5 > forHelp.txt && ifconfig >> forHelp.txt && uname -a >> forHelp.txt && cat /proc/cpuinfo >> forHelp.txt; pastebin forHelp.txt


I can ask someone to run the above code and give me the outputted link. That will tell me the last 5 lines of errors, their network card info, their system version and a complete breakdown of their CPU. How much easier was that, then this.



So much easier :)

Bodsda

This is the reason I often give CLI commands on the forums rather then GUI steps. If you don't know what you're doing a copy/paste into CLI is much easier then clicking on a bunch of stuff in a GUI.

[blueturtl]

I'll take my chances with the terminal over this any time:
http://bestnetguru.com/computerhelp/illegal_operation.gif

[Neken]

They have powershell now too. I think the first things I do is drop to CLI to see what is going on, as well.

Indeed. Anyway, Computer Management (right-click My Computer -> Manage) has more information than what the CLI could offer you. (Events, etc.)

Except for Powershell, which has direct access to all the information the Computer Management Console has.


Linux is not windows, and unlike windows the terminal is actually informative in Linux.
Not every application has a graphical front end, and those that do do not always offer all the options available.

That's one of the biggest difference between Linux and Windows.

Under Linux, every single application is a console application. Only, some have a graphical front end. This is why when you launch a "graphical" process under linux, your terminal prints whatever stdout output the process has, even if it's a graphical application (ie: gedit).

Under Windows, you have console applications, which has a stdout, stdin and stderr. These apps start in the main() method. To live, these apps need a "host console". Indeed, without one, they cannot be launched. When you double-click a console application in Windows, it launches a cmd.exe with the console application.
And then you have graphical applications. They are launched through WinMain(). They _don't_ have a stdout and stdin. They don't at all. This is why launching, say, notepad in cmd.exe returns immediately. They aren't "hosts" of the console, they live by themselves. Windows is a truly graphical OS, the cmd.exe and console applications are only a "patch" on the system to support legacy stuff.

[haqking]

Indeed. Anyway, Computer Management (right-click My Computer -> Manage) has more information than what the CLI could offer you. (Events, etc.)

.


You can view, query and manipulate events from command prompt in windows.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/ntcmds_new_tools.mspx?mfr=true

and

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc757231%28WS.10%29.aspx