laptop battery???

[soryu]

got a new laptop and thinking how to extend battery life.

other than fully draining and fully charging,
what else?

is it ok to have it plugged in all the time instead of using the battery?
or is having it plugged in all the time bad for the battery?:confused:

[mcduck]

Continuous charging will decrease the life of lithium batteries, and so does heat and keeping them at 100% charge for long periods of time.

So if you keep your laptop plugged to the mains for long time you should charge the battery to around 40% and then disconnect it & store in cool and dry place.

(100% is bad, and draining a lithium battery to 0% might result in not being able to charge it again any more. Around 40% leaves you enough margin so the battery won't discharge completely on it's own even during long storage)

On the other hand fully draining and charging isn't really required for lithium batteries. they don't have the same memory effect older NiCd and NiMH batteries had. Devices recommending a full charge/discharge usually do that simply for the purpose of calibrating their battery level monitoring tools to be able to report remaining battery life more accurately.

[LowSky]

If your laptop will run on AC without the battery, thats a good idea.
Run it in cycles, charge to 100% then drain it all the way when possible.

For longer battery use, set PC to sleep after 10 min of no use. Sleep on lid close and so on.

[soryu]

Thanks for the info

[jfed]

With most batteries, the more they get drained, then fully charged again, the shorter the maximum battery life becomes.

It's perfectly fine to keep your laptop plugged in all the time. Thats what I do, only run it off battery power when necessary.

Of course this does raise the question that the point of having a battery is to be able to move around, but they just drain so quickly.

After two or so years, my battery only holds 47% of the max charge it did when it was brand new.

So in conclusion its better to keep it plugged in, there are no cons to doing so. However there are many cons to using all the battery life, charing it, and repeating.

[NightwishFan]

I have had this laptop for a year with the battery in the whole time (ac in or not) and my capacity is 94% or so.

[jfed]

Mine was old to begin with :lolflag:Also for the record, you don't even need to have the battery in the machine to be able to have it run. You can run a laptop completely off AC power. In fact, most of the time, this will result in a drop in temperature while running, however slight.

[sffvba[e0rt]

This thread as many before it has conflicting reports of what is best and what worked well for one user vs another.

The last I heard on the subject is (as has been mentioned), remove the battery with +-40% charge and store it in a cold/dry environment if you will be running on AC for an extended period of time.

My first notebooks battery could last all of 5 minutes before dying and it was on AC for more than 95% of the time over a period of 1 and a half years... I plan on giving my second battery a longer life :D


404

[NightwishFan]

This site explains it in a simple way. I doubt they would lie.

Nvm they took the page down.. Smegheads.

[sffvba[e0rt]

This site explains it in a simple way. I doubt they would lie.

Nvm they took the page down.. Smegheads.

They must have seen the error in their ways :p


404

[pjd99]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1812346

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1790684

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

[LowSky]

With most batteries, the more they get drained, then fully charged again, the shorter the maximum battery life becomes.

It's perfectly fine to keep your laptop plugged in all the time. Thats what I do, only run it off battery power when necessary.

Of course this does raise the question that the point of having a battery is to be able to move around, but they just drain so quickly.

After two or so years, my battery only holds 47% of the max charge it did when it was brand new.

So in conclusion its better to keep it plugged in, there are no cons to doing so. However there are many cons to using all the battery life, charing it, and repeating.

this held true to the old NiCd batteries but with LiIon this doesn't hold true. Keeping them plugged in all the time can actually damage the battery as it is constantly trying to charge 5-10% of the battery in a constant cycle. To renew your battery do a few discharge-recharge cycles.

[mcduck]

pjdd's last link actually has an excellent explanation of how lithium batteries wear out. :)

For example at 25°C temperature you get 4% permanent capacity loss in a year when the battery is stored at 40% charge, while at 100% charge at same temperature you'll loose 20% of the capacity in the same time.

Of course charging creates heat, and so does the computer, so if the battery is always plugged in it's probably much warmer than 25°C and the capacity loss is even higher (at 60°C and 100% charge the loss is, according to that article, 40% in 3 months :o).

So it really is a good idea to disconnect the battery and store it at recommended capacity if you are using AC power for longer times.

[pjd99]

pjdd's last link actually has an excellent explanation of how lithium batteries wear out. :)

That site contains all kinds of useful battery information. Like when I was younger I thought that the "Do not use rechargeable batteries" sticker on toys was a marketing thing. Turns out that rechargeable batteries (Ni-Cd and Ni-MH) can put out a lot more current than an alkaline battery (enough to cause a fire).

Stuck the multimeter across the terminals of a few different types of batteries and:
Alkaline cell: <2.5 A @ 1.45 V
Ni-MH cell: >7 A @ 1.25 V
Ni-Cd cell: >13 A @ 1.2 V

Also, don't use rechargeable batteries in low drain devices (clocks, remotes etc) - they self-discharge too quickly, and don't use alkalines in high-drain devices (cameras, RC-cars etc) - they can't sustain the current required.

[Johnb0y]

best thing to do is "google" your make and model of laptop and battery, this will give you review and hints and tips as every machine is different,

p.s. the OS your using will differ to the "goodness" of your battery too...my old dell m70 (original battery*)was on XP...if i was lucky 45mins... ubuntu...1.30-45...depending on what and where i am doing it...(example),

just keep using it on and off the AC, vary it and everything will be ok, just dont let it drain to nothing and when the laptop says it full, take it off...

p.p.s the price of batteries aint that expensive to what they use to be... so dont worry to much... ebay, ebuyers, etc...

[CharlesA]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1812346

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1790684

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Nice link.

I run my netbook and laptop off the mains 99% of the time with the battery out. Smart phone is charged when it gets low, but it's not on the charger all the time.

Haven't really noticed any real reduction in battery life on either machine.

[jfed]

The last I heard on the subject is (as has been mentioned), remove the battery with +-40% charge and store it in a cold/dry environment if you will be running on AC for an extended period of time.


What is the difference between throwing it in a draw or storing it in a cold/dry environment? That certainly wont restore maximum charge capacity, and it certainly won't deplete if I leave it in a draw.

[pjd99]

What is the difference between throwing it in a draw or storing it in a cold/dry environment? That certainly wont restore maximum charge capacity, and it certainly won't deplete if I leave it in a draw.
Cold, because temperature reduces cell capacity over time.

Dry, because electronics + condensation is a bad thing.

[pjd99]

I run my netbook and laptop off the mains 99% of the time with the battery out. Smart phone is charged when it gets low, but it's not on the charger all the time.

Haven't really noticed any real reduction in battery life on either machine.

After 2.5 years, my laptop battery is at 51.5% capacity. I keep it on AC power >95% of the time. Lasts about 45 minutes if everything is on its lowest setting. Replaced the battery in my phone (same age) about 6 months ago because it wouldn't last a call but would restart and report 100% full. Been fine ever since. I used to plug it in every night, but on the new battery I charge it every 2-3 days. Want to see if it lasts any better.

[jfed]

Cold, because temperature reduces cell capacity over time.

Dry, because electronics + condensation is a bad thing.

Hm, well might as well do such then, thanks

[CharlesA]

After 2.5 years, my laptop battery is at 51.5% capacity. I keep it on AC power >95% of the time. Lasts about 45 minutes if everything is on its lowest setting. Replaced the battery in my phone (same age) about 6 months ago because it wouldn't last a call but would restart and report 100% full. Been fine ever since. I used to plug it in every night, but on the new battery I charge it every 2-3 days. Want to see if it lasts any better.

Netbook is around 2 years old, laptop is brand new. ;) Thanks for the info as well. I wonder how long it'll be before my battery starts wigging out. :P

[disabledaccount]

What is the difference between throwing it in a draw or storing it in a cold/dry environment? That certainly wont restore maximum charge capacity, and it certainly won't deplete if I leave it in a draw.
Low temperature slows down chemical reactions inside cells - the lower the better.
In short:
NiCd and Ni-Mh - old, currently probably not manufactured anymore, with possible exception of some very low-end "chinese devices". Very bad technology: short lifetime, charge level "memory" (shows full charge while in fact only small percentage of capacity is available).
Li-Ion: No "charge memory" - can be recharged at any time, doesn't like deep unloading.
Li-Poly: don't buy any other types of accumulators - currently unbeatable life time, invulnerable to deep unloading, temperature etc. You just use it and don't care of anything. Expensive.

Modern charging systems are aware of accumulator units' lower capacity and won't charge them endlessly. Such laptops have additional field in ACPI with current (estimated) max. capacity of battery.

I've allways wondered why do peoples buy laptops for stationary work...

[sanderd17]

That site contains all kinds of useful battery information. Like when I was younger I thought that the "Do not use rechargeable batteries" sticker on toys was a marketing thing. Turns out that rechargeable batteries (Ni-Cd and Ni-MH) can put out a lot more current than an alkaline battery (enough to cause a fire).

Stuck the multimeter across the terminals of a few different types of batteries and:
Alkaline cell: <2.5 A @ 1.45 V
Ni-MH cell: >7 A @ 1.25 V
Ni-Cd cell: >13 A @ 1.2 V

Also, don't use rechargeable batteries in low drain devices (clocks, remotes etc) - they self-discharge too quickly, and don't use alkalines in high-drain devices (cameras, RC-cars etc) - they can't sustain the current required.

My father killed my first electrical train by putting rechargeable batteries in it.



Li-Poly: don't buy any other types of accumulators - currently unbeatable life time, invulnerable to deep unloading, temperature etc. You just use it and don't care of anything. Expensive.

I didn't know Li-Poly, so searched it on Wikipedia, and it seems that apple is using it in their macbooks. So that's why they have such a good battery life. Nice to know.

[CharlesA]

I've allways wondered why do peoples buy laptops for stationary work...

Take it somewhere, plug it in and use it. Unplug it and take it home when you are done.

That's what I do most of the time - unless I am using it on a train or bus (or away from AC), I rarely run it off battery.

[NightwishFan]

Do not put batteries in the fridge though folks. I doubt they mean 'that cold'.

[CharlesA]

Do not put batteries in the fridge though folks. I doubt they mean 'that cold'.
Hmm I wonder where that "store batteries in the freezer" thing started...

[disabledaccount]

Do not put batteries in the fridge though folks. I doubt they mean 'that cold'.
Actually it means *that* cold :) Additionally almost every Ni-Mh and Li-Ion can be restored to *nearly" original capacity by mechanical shock in charged state. This is done by placing such battery in "shaking device" made of some high-speed motor taken from f.e. grinder.
This *technology* won't restore charge cycle counters, so it's necessary to tweak battery logic circuits.

CharlesA: I've thought that pendrives (especially fast models: 30MB/s read 24MB/s write) are far more convenient :)

[CharlesA]

CharlesA: I've thought that pendrives (especially fast models: 30MB/s read 24MB/s write) are far more convenient :)

Depends on what you are wanting to do with it. I've got specific stuff installed on my laptop that I use for school that I don't have on my work pc.

There's also the fact that my work pc only has usb 1.1... :P

[forrestcupp]

I have always had all of my laptops plugged in with the battery in them almost all of the time. When I do unplug them, it doesn't seem like the battery runs down any quicker than it ever did. I think the idea that leaving your laptop plugged in destroys your battery is a bunch of hogwash. At least it is in my experience.



I've allways wondered why do peoples buy laptops for stationary work...
You can't really sit back in a recliner chair and use a desktop very well. But I have an outlet to plug my laptop into right beside my chair.

[Johnb0y]

You can't really sit back in a recliner chair and use a desktop very well

erm... if you have a wireless mouse and keyboard with a "slightly" bigger monitor (or use you TV if available...i do...) then yes you can....i do this when i have a lot of "work" to do and prefer the luxury over anything! :p

[forrestcupp]

erm... if you have a wireless mouse and keyboard with a "slightly" bigger monitor (or use you TV if available...i do...) then yes you can....i do this when i have a lot of "work" to do and prefer the luxury over anything! :p

I actually have a nettop hooked up to my TV that I use in that way. It's not nearly as functional as having a laptop on my lap, though. One problem I've run into is that the distance between my chair and the computer makes my mouse sporadic, which drives me nuts.

I only use my nettop for watching my DVDs that I ripped to an external hard drive.

[Pogeymanz]

Never leave your laptop plugged in when the battery is fully charged. I've read that it's bad (even though, the stupid kids working as Best Buy are told to tell you it's fine) and everyone I know does that and has a completely dead battery after a year.

I've also read that fully draining and recharging isn't very good either. The best is to keep the charge somewhere between 40% and 80%.

And of course, heat. I never leave the battery in if I'm going to watch a movie or compile a kernel or any cpu-intensive task.

[forrestcupp]

Never leave your laptop plugged in when the battery is fully charged. I've read that it's bad (even though, the stupid kids working as Best Buy are told to tell you it's fine) and everyone I know does that and has a completely dead battery after a year.
Like I said earlier, every laptop I've ever had was plugged in almost all the time, and I never noticed any abnormal reduction in battery life.