Technically restricting non-free software in ubuntu

[zenlunatic]

I'm wondering if maybe we can make a package like easy ubuntu, but for removing those nasty non-free pieces on our system.

I'm not using ubuntu anymore, but is it possible using synaptic to go through and EASILY check all packages from 'restricted copyright' for removal? If that exists than cool, if not we should start something to get all this nasty non-free software out of ubuntu. Is anyone with me?

I'm thinking that official ubuntu should have a question at the very beginning of install saying "do you want to use non-free software" and then filter the system based on that.

[Iandefor]

I'm wondering if maybe we can make a package like easy ubuntu, but for removing those nasty non-free pieces on our system.

I'm not using ubuntu anymore, but is it possible using synaptic to go through and EASILY check all packages from 'restricted copyright' for removal? If that exists than cool, if not we should start something to get all this nasty non-free software out of ubuntu. Is anyone with me?

I'm thinking that official ubuntu should have a question at the very beginning of install saying "do you want to use non-free software" and then filter the system based on that. Sounds like a good project. I'm all about choice, and if this just makes it easier for the end user to achieve a given goal- ie, a totally Free operating system, then I'm all for it. What I'm curious about: what packages come as a default in Ubuntu that aren't Free?

[Kilz]

I'm wondering if maybe we can make a package like easy ubuntu, but for removing those nasty non-free pieces on our system.

I'm not using ubuntu anymore, but is it possible using synaptic to go through and EASILY check all packages from 'restricted copyright' for removal? If that exists than cool, if not we should start something to get all this nasty non-free software out of ubuntu. Is anyone with me?

I'm thinking that official ubuntu should have a question at the very beginning of install saying "do you want to use non-free software" and then filter the system based on that.

So your not using Ubuntu, but you want to remove things from it? Why not simply code your own separate application to do it and then make it available? That way anyone who wants it can chose to install it, just like someone has to chose to install universe and multiverse.

[zenlunatic]

Well for one I can't code (working on that this summer). Next thing is I don't use ubuntu mainly because I'm scared to install non-free software on my machine. I value my freedom more than anything else, and I'm not willing to give it up for some stupid video or flashy web game. If ubuntu gave me a way to install itself, without the risk of non-free infection, I would LOVE that. But alas there is nothing.

oh landefor some non-free stuff includes wireless and video drivers.

[RAV TUX]

Well for one I can't code (working on that this summer). Next thing is I don't use ubuntu mainly because I'm scared to install non-free software on my machine. I value my freedom more than anything else, and I'm not willing to give it up for some stupid video or flashy web game. If ubuntu gave me a way to install itself, without the risk of non-free infection, I would LOVE that. But alas there is nothing.

oh landefor some non-free stuff includes wireless and video drivers.

so which linux distro do you use?

[vayu]

Well for one I can't code (working on that this summer). Next thing is I don't use ubuntu mainly because I'm scared to install non-free software on my machine. I value my freedom more than anything else, and I'm not willing to give it up for some stupid video or flashy web game. If ubuntu gave me a way to install itself, without the risk of non-free infection, I would LOVE that. But alas there is nothing.

oh landefor some non-free stuff includes wireless and video drivers.

I always thought Ubuntu had a strong commitment to free software.
I'm under the impression you have to intentionally and knowingly install non-free software with Ubuntu.

I'm pretty sure you get free video drivers on a stock install and only get proprietary ones if you intentionally install them. I don't know much about the wireless, but I would think only some of them are non-free. Even so it would be simple to uninstall them.

What do you mean by "value your freedom"? What are you scared about? I'm sure Ubuntu does not break any laws and unless you personally and knowingly install things that are illegal for your country you have nothing to be concerned about.

Playing mp3s and DVDs are the only things that I can think of that fit in that category.

Any other non-free software like video drivers are not illegal at all, they are just called non-free because the companies don't open the source, but they are legal to use.

[Sutekh]

I think the poster is referring to non-free software, not illegal software. In which case, the default Ubuntu installation does not contain any non-free software.

Vayu, I think you are right, you have to willingly and intentionly install non-free software.

If you are unsure, you should check out the
Virtual Richard M. Stallman (http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/admin/vrms) to help you root out non-free software.


Also check out this thread

Ubuntu Forums - How Free Are You? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=129342)

[eentonig]

By default, it only comes with free software. You have to deliberatly enable extra repositories to enable the install of non-free software. So excuse me if I don't see your problem.

You blame it for not being able to simply correct a problem you have to create in the firsr place? Please explain if I miss the point here.

[Kilz]

Well for one I can't code (working on that this summer). Next thing is I don't use ubuntu mainly because I'm scared to install non-free software on my machine. I value my freedom more than anything else, and I'm not willing to give it up for some stupid video or flashy web game. If ubuntu gave me a way to install itself, without the risk of non-free infection, I would LOVE that. But alas there is nothing.

oh landefor some non-free stuff includes wireless and video drivers.

I have to admit that it takes a rare individual to place ideals over making things work. I'm nowhere near that point yet, I'm not sure I want to be. I have this need for my ati video card to show greater than 800x600 and 60 hz on my 19 inch monitor.
Which was exactly what I had until I chose to install the ati driver, I had to chose to enable the repositories and download the driver to get it.

[zenlunatic]

No most if not all of you are wrong. Ubuntu DOES ship with non-free software, its in the 'restricted copyrights' repository which contains stuff like wireless binaries and video binaries.

And yes I do care about my freedom to know what my computer is doing and for my computer to do what I tell it to do, not someone elses (the "owner") orders.

[BoyOfDestiny]

No most if not all of you are wrong. Ubuntu DOES ship with non-free software, its in the 'restricted copyrights' repository which contains stuff like wireless binaries and video binaries.

And yes I do care about my freedom to know what my computer is doing and for my computer to do what I tell it to do, not someone elses (the "owner") orders.

Well there is vrms package (in
universe)

virtual Richard M. Stallman
The vrms program will analyze the set of currently-installed packages on a
Debian GNU/Linux system, and report all of the packages from the non-free
tree which are currently installed.

Anyway, what are you currently using? LFS?

Also, must you install/keep the restricted stuff anyway?
I can remove restricted-modules and my stuff works fine.
The open source ati driver is fine for my card as well (ati based 9250).

[Kilz]

No most if not all of you are wrong. Ubuntu DOES ship with non-free software, its in the 'restricted copyrights' repository which contains stuff like wireless binaries and video binaries.

And yes I do care about my freedom to know what my computer is doing and for my computer to do what I tell it to do, not someone elses (the "owner") orders.

A lot of people have asked what distro you use. I'm real interested in knowing myself. What distro passes your test enough to enable you to use it?

[zenlunatic]

I switched back to ubuntu breezy because it and openbsd are the only two OSes that detect my wireless card. I COULD NOT get my wireless card working with debian after several attempts. At this point in time I need wireless and will have to be using ubuntu with virtual rms and restricted copyright disabled. Its my best option. Sometimes we need to make compromises. I don't have a free bios but I'm going to start helping on this when I learn coding. Also I'm looking into getting a free router, but my current router is not free. OpenBSD was not a good choice because I could blindly install tons of stuff that I had no idea of. Although I'm starting to think in the end that its up to the user to take responbility of what software they use. I'm seriously considering linux from scratch at this point, but someone advised against it in #gnu.

[Kvark]

Nice to see a true Free software purist. Are you this pure when it comes to other copyrighted materials too? Do you listen only to Free music and so on?

I heard that debfoster is the way to keep track of whats installed on your system and that aptitude has some features for keeping track of your packages too. Haven't tried them myself though.

[BoyOfDestiny]

I switched back to ubuntu breezy because it and openbsd are the only two OSes that detect my wireless card. I COULD NOT get my wireless card working with debian after several attempts. At this point in time I need wireless and will have to be using ubuntu with virtual rms and restricted copyright disabled. Its my best option. Sometimes we need to make compromises. I don't have a free bios but I'm going to start helping on this when I learn coding. Also I'm looking into getting a free router, but my current router is not free. OpenBSD was not a good choice because I could blindly install tons of stuff that I had no idea of. Although I'm starting to think in the end that its up to the user to take responbility of what software they use. I'm seriously considering linux from scratch at this point, but someone advised against it in #gnu.

Heh heh BSD, that isn't free software :)

As for a free router, linksys has a few.
This seems like the best of them
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS4729641740.html

I still have my old linksys wireless b router, it's been running pretty well for 4 years or so...Usually running 24/7.

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2005548492.html

This page lists a bunch of Linux Devices, including routers with Linux...

Good luck.

[zenlunatic]

i emailed mark@canonical.com and he said there might be an option for this gnu-blessed install in dapper but he won't know until its done (i guess they're really busy right now) ](*,)

[Lovechild]

I suggest inplementing the anvil in your face interface to handle such issues.

[Lovechild]

Heh heh BSD, that isn't free software :)


Even the FSF disagrees with you on that one, the BSD License is a free software license and it's 100% GPL compatible to boot.

[Sheinar]

Heh heh BSD, that isn't free software :)
Yes it is, it just isn't copyleft, because it doesn't restrict proprietary use of the code.


This is the original BSD license, modified by removal of the advertising clause. It is a simple, permissive non-copyleft free software license, compatible with the GNU GPL.

Edit: Damn, Lovechild beat me to it.

[vayu]

I'm wondering if maybe we can make a package like easy ubuntu, but for removing those nasty non-free pieces on our system.

I'm not using ubuntu anymore, but is it possible using synaptic to go through and EASILY check all packages from 'restricted copyright' for removal? If that exists than cool, if not we should start something to get all this nasty non-free software out of ubuntu. Is anyone with me?

I'm thinking that official ubuntu should have a question at the very beginning of install saying "do you want to use non-free software" and then filter the system based on that.

I'm feeling disturbed by the way you describe "all this nasty non-free software" in Ubuntu.

The only non-free software you're using from Ubuntu is what you chose to use to get your non-free wireless card to work. If you want free only then talk to the hardware manufacturer.

You've made statements implying that Ubuntu needs to change in order to give you freedom, when that is exactly opposite. By default it only gives you free software, it does not force non-free on you at all, but it has also given you the ability (more freedom) to use a non-free driver.



And yes I do care about my freedom to know what my computer is doing and for my computer to do what I tell it to do, not someone elses (the "owner") orders.

Ubuntu did not force you to use a non-free wireless driver, you chose that.



At this point in time I need wireless and will have to be using ubuntu with virtual rms and restricted copyright disabled. Its my best option. Sometimes we need to make compromises.

Again, your choice, not Ubuntu's.