Question to Ubuntu Users

[hakermania]

I have noticed this especially in omgubuntu.co.uk users!

They tend to be maniac about what's default and how nice default things look or anything!

But why do you care so much about this???

You should really care more about if something is customisable or not so as to fit it to your own personality, and really, default apps doesn't really matter, you can uninstall and install software with 2 clicks.

So, am I missing something?:confused:

[whatthefunk]

I agree. I really couldnt care less what is default because half of it is going to get purged on installation and replaced with programs that I like better. Same goes for default themes. My pc will have the default look for about five minutes.

[NightwishFan]

Defaults do matter; As first impressions last and some people do not change them. However I think people are.. over enthusiastic about them. It may have something to do with brand identity?

Though this is just conjecture, perhaps they assume that something like Gimp not being included by default means it is not being supported? I can not rationally explain it well because I am not similar enough to understand or that it is not rational. I will assume the latter.

They just like to complain.

[cgroza]

Because Ubuntu users are spoiled with the default.
Look at Arch and Gentoo, no one ever complains about the defaults.

[Ichtyandr]

From a user perspective:
distribution by default in Ubuntu means mainstream adoption of software (and implications for compatibility and support that may be).
This may affect future development and quality of programs. Thus adoption into pre-installed default is potentially a positive externality for users that use such program.

[Thewhistlingwind]

Because Ubuntu users are spoiled with the default.
Look at Arch and Gentoo, no one ever complains about the defaults.

DEFAULTS!?

PFTTTTTTT!

In MY day, you had to install Linux with a HEX EDITOR from a FLOPPY!!!

And we had to share the floppy!

[FuturePilot]

I have noticed this especially in omgubuntu.co.uk users!

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.

[hakermania]

Thanks for the replies, I was hoping to find some users that post there about the default things (because there are lots of them and the 'Likes' they take even more)

[Copper Bezel]

Yeah, defaults are important, just not generally for the users who care about them. = )

[cgroza]

The defaults need to decide a stable position. Who does not like them, can change them. Anyway, I have seen people on the forums that would need a separate DE just to satisfy them.

[themusicalduck]

Most users don't care much about the defaults, but a lot of users feel like if the defaults aren't perfect then it will hamper adoption of Linux or Ubuntu. Which might have some truth in it, but probably not as much as people think.

It doesn't bother me (not anymore anyway), because I don't think adoption is necessarily the most important thing for Linux and defaults don't always put people off straight away.

After all, many people still like to use XP, which has a terribly ugly theme and hardly any useful software installed by default.

[cariboo]

I think we are starting to see a new type of user, that is happy with the defaults, and has no desire to customize their system by adding extra packages. We especially see it right now, as there aren't any tools included by default to customize the the user interface, and I'm seeing complaints about having to install extra software to do so.

[ninjaaron]

It would make sense to include gnome-tweak in the default app set.

[cgroza]

It would make sense to include gnome-tweak in the default app set.
Gnome-tweak provides configuration for non-Ubuntu features too. Maybe a fork of it with the respective options removed (such as Gnome Shell).

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

:lolflag:

The defaults are more important than the ability to customize the OS, applications, or the user interface! :)

I am superior to the "computer users"; because, I can customize my computer. Those "computer user's" just don't know how to customize their computer; therefore, we have to do it for them. I am superior, you get it! :)

:lolflag:

By trying to tell the "I am superior" noobs that they may be wrong, you will just end up in a fight; because, you are diminishing their feeling of superiority.

What cariboo907 posting in post #12 above troubles me somewhat.

[Dangertux]

Personally I could care less what my UI looks like. As far as applications, I use a lot of very specific apps, that I install myself on a fresh install (only a few are actually in repos sadly). Most of my time spent is either in a terminal or browser. So I am not very picky about defaults. I do prefer the dust theme to the other themes that come with ubuntu though. Just my 2 cents.

[sffvba[e0rt]

Well I have found that often the default applications are often better integrated with the distro in question... Take a look at first Evolution and now Thunderbird... So it does matter.


404

[hakermania]

Yeah, but do users care so much about the development of these specific applications? They make me understand that they think that tthey will ve forced to use them, no the other way back

[sidzen]

I think we are starting to see a new type of user, that is happy with the defaults, and has no desire to customize their system by adding extra packages. We especially see it right now, as there aren't any tools included by default to customize the the user interface, and I'm seeing complaints about having to install extra software to do so.

Agreed . . . plus, ubuntu has become the "lazy man's linux," IMHO. Why some choose to stick with brasero is beyond me, for instance; I prefer to use wodim rather than this default burner!
(And what is wodim, you may ask . . . ?)

[NightwishFan]

I like wodim also. Many less coasters than the various GUI apps even though most of them likely use genisoimage/wodim as a backend.

[Copper Bezel]

Yeah, but do users care so much about the development of these specific applications? They make me understand that they think that tthey will ve forced to use them, no the other way back
Well, yeah, that's half of the point. On the one hand, people get the mistaken impression that an operating system is all one thing, like the enduser apps are just a built-in part of the service instead of a collection of parts. On the other, there's an extent to which this really is true, because the more popular or, for whatever other reasons, default applications are going to be used more, supported more, and tweaked to live in the Ubuntu environment better. Another example would be the global menu support for Firefox and LibreOffice - if AbiWord or Epiphany had had the same problem, it wouldn't have received the same treatment.

Edit: I need to look into this wodim. I don't often burn disks, but when I have, I've used Brasero, and it's kept my coffee table in a factory finish.

[vehemoth]

The only default I don't like is Unity (will change once it gets better), but that's only because I get people occasionally asking about linux and coming from the windows crowd don't realise you can change the UI. Usually I'm not going to be there when they try it out and it's hard to explain to some people that they can log out and change the UI.

[XubuRoxMySox]

I almost never leave the defaults in place. I change the UI and several applications to suit my own needs and taste. But when I first started with Linux I had no idea I could change anything except maybe the wallpaper, "like I did in XP."

I used the default everything until I had read a lot more and discovered that I didn't have to use this or that ______ (fill in the blank: theme, font, application, sound, desktop environment, etc).

The defaults matter because of the "first impression" that either "hooks" a new user or puts him off. Mepis is blue, Mint is green, Ubu was baby-poo brown. Had I not learned very quickly that I could change that baby-poo brown theming into something less repulsive, I might have ditched Ubuntu and looked elsewhere for something "prettier."

[keithpeter]

I think we are starting to see a new type of user, that is happy with the defaults, and has no desire to customize their system by adding extra packages.

Hello cariboo907 and all

I suspect there have always been a large number of Ubuntu users who shove the CD in, install the system, and then perhaps install one or two new applications. They may only end up in Ubuntuforums if something goes wrong or they need help with their drivers or something similar.

Most people reading this post will be modifying their setups in more radical ways or installing CLI systems and customising.

It's the old division between those who use a computer to do stuff and those who have some interest in the computer itself.

PS: I'm using Xubuntu 10.04 and 11.04 on laptops with more or less default set ups. I'm experimenting with dwm/dmenu on this desktop and liking it so far.

[oldos2er]

I think we are starting to see a new type of user, that is happy with the defaults, and has no desire to customize their system by adding extra packages. We especially see it right now, as there aren't any tools included by default to customize the the user interface, and I'm seeing complaints about having to install extra software to do so.

I noticed this awhile back when the Gnome window controls were moved to the left from the right side. The outpouring of complaints really surprised me, considering how easily they could be changed back. But your explanation of a new type of user (a user used to Windows?) hits the nail on the head.

[hakermania]

I noticed this awhile back when the Gnome window controls were moved to the left from the right side. The outpouring of complaints really surprised me, considering how easily they could be changed back. But your explanation of a new type of user (a user used to Windows?) hits the nail on the head.
Well, I don't know what it's maybe true or not. I think that if something is easily modifiable you should'nt complain about it.

[ninjaaron]

The defaults need to decide a stable position. Who does not like them, can change them. Anyway, I have seen people on the forums that would need a separate DE just to satisfy them.

In which case they are very lucky to use Linux. Ubuntu has a plethora
of DE's available in the repos, and I daresay there must be one to fit the
desires of ever user.

[georgemc]

Why use defaults?


Over the last 2 decades, professionally and at home, I use defaults as much as possible because even as customization is really neat it can also get in the way of recovery. What I mean is, it is faster and simpler to recover a broken system when it uses defaults. Once a highly customized broken system is recovered it is never the same again.


New users, ie noobs, to any *NIX, or any other OS, do not necessarily want, have the knowledge, or ability to start customizing their system. They WILL use and rely on the defaults because that is what they get from the start.


With any new gadget it is important that it works “out of the box”, which does imply that any default settings are sane and usable.


From my perspective I see a lot of “customization” of the desktop as “eye candy”. Neat and cool, after a day or so annoying and getting in the way of the work at hand. So I try and then switch it off within a day or two.


Now I do make a distinction between regular “setup” and “customization”.
Regular “setup” are for example when you setup your WiFi with WPA2 or setting up printers or other devices to just make them work.
“Customization” is switching on desktop effects, change themes, wallpaper, or other general available configurable items. Also any custom “Home Brew” applications that I install fall into this category.


Where you draw the line between “setup” and “customization” is most likely a little different for everyone.


I can understand the “maniacs” from omgubuntu.co.uk that push for better and sane defaults. It's the first impression that at times makes the largest impact.


For any new user, or lazy pro like myself, good defaults are the key.


George

[Copper Bezel]

Also any custom “Home Brew” applications that I install fall into this category.

Without Fewt's lovely ACPI scripting, my Eee would be perpetually on fire, which I do consider a functional disadvantage.

But yes, in general, we need to understand that defaults are about the vast majority of users who aren't represented in these forums. Defaults have no bearing on us, so we're out of turn to complain about them. At the same time, having a sane set of defaults out of the box is absolutely necessary to the success of a distro or any piece of software.

[sidzen]

Call me old-school (although I hardly am so) but many here are speaking of ubuntu as if it were Windows!
Are people really so lazy that they (like an ex-wife with a car) want to just get in and go, without checking the oil and water levels?
Apparently so, as cariboo907 corroborates.
As James Lee Burke does regarding the Big Easy, so I do for Linux (which is not just ubuntu).

[johnnybgoode83]

While defaults don't matter to me at all, it is important that a system looks good and is functional out of the box. Your aveage joe user does not want to spend hours setting up their system and just want it to work straight away.

When I install a new system most of the default applications get uninstalled and I install my preferred applications. I also change theme, wallpaper etc etc to such an extent it isn't even recognisable. That is just me though as I am a tinkerer by nature, most users aren't.

[MasterNetra]

I agree that defaults are important for first impressions more so for attracting newcomers and helping them feel more comfortable with the OS. As for Arch and gentoo...yea..how many newly windows converts flock to them?