Do you use Visual Studio?

[stamatiou]

Do you use Visual Studio? If yes where (eg.Virtual Box) and do you use it more than any other IDE?

[VOT Productions]

Yes. I use the C++/Basic parts.

[forrestcupp]

Yes, I use it in Windows. There is no other IDE as good as VS. That is one thing that MS definitely got right. I use 2008, though, instead of 2010. They dropped support for a few things in 2010, and that made me mad. I use Visual Studio for C++, Visual Basic, C#, and html.

I am finding myself using Eclipse a little, though, since I'm venturing out into Android apps. But VS will always be my favorite. I wish it could do Java.

[kaldor]

Not yet, but I will be. Some courses I'm doing at college require it. VS and Adobe CS are the only reasons I had to make room for Windows.

[MG&TL]

No, definitely not. Too many options, so pointless. I use Notepad++ and MinGW from the command line for programming on windows. I heartily recommend it, but getting GNU make on windows is hell. I never really use the wwindows GUI, it's too much like hard work. Generally I work from the command-line.

[NovaAesa]

I teach classes for a first year intro programming course, the IDE used for the course is VS. I use it for those classes, but that's all I use it for.

[stamatiou]

All of you who use VS do you use it in Virtual Box or on a fully installed Windows Machine?

[Ozor Mox]

Yes I use it at work to do web development in ASP.NET and C#. I use it on Windows XP. I find it a very capable and full-featured, if sometimes quirky, IDE.

[kaldor]

All of you who use VS do you use it in Virtual Box or on a fully installed Windows Machine?

I have a dual boot; Ubuntu 11.04 and Windows 7. I only boot into Win7 when I actually need to, or when I feel like exploring it a little.

[cprofitt]

For Windows development I would not consider using any other IDE. VS is a fantastic product that is very well designed and tested. I used it natively in Windows when I use it... but I have not done Windows development in over three years.

[3Miro]

I use Visual Studio under Virtual Box because it is the only option to mod video games.

For my work, I cannot use Visual Studio and I probably wouldn't even if I could.

[Dragonbite]

I use it at work, running on Windows.

Earlier this year I started on an ASP.NET project where I was running the solution in Windows at work, and then would work on it in Monodevelop at home.

I had the solution folder in Dropbox. The two (or more) systems would auto-update when Dropbox sync'd. Surprisingly it worked pretty well and part of that goes to Monodevelop handling the Visual Studio solution file pretty well.

One of the things that slowed me down is that I use VB.NET at work and was using this as a chance to try working in C#. I am tempted to start up another one, for exploring C# but just haven't figured out what project to focus on.

Eventually, I ended up abandoning the complete rewrite in C# and switched to PHP which was better in the long run because when somebody else used it all they needed was a run-of-the-mill LAMP stack (which they used Ubuntu).

[RiceMonster]

No, definitely not. Too many options, so pointless. I use Notepad++ and MinGW from the command line for programming on windows. I heartily recommend it, but getting GNU make on windows is hell. I never really use the wwindows GUI, it's too much like hard work. Generally I work from the command-line.

Umm, an integrated debugger is pointless? Are you kidding me? What about the ability to organize your code right there? That's pointless as well? Not to mention the fact that you don't have to waste your time writing make files.

[DangerOnTheRanger]

Umm, an integrated debugger is pointless? Are you kidding me? What about the ability to organize your code right there? That's pointless as well? Not to mention the fact that you don't have to waste your time writing make files.

Actually, in 5-6 years of programming (which admittedly isn't much), I've never had to use a debugger. Good old "print" statements (or "printf" in C, or "std::cout" in C++) have always worked for me.

Also, when I write Makefiles, I write them in such a way so that I only have to modify it if I add a new build target (say, an "installer" target), or change an existing target. I think Makefiles are usually written that way, but I'm not sure. So, I think very little (if any - I write most of my Makefiles in under 30 minutes) time is wasted, especially considering how much more flexible Makefiles are.

And with code organization: I'm not sure what you mean by that RiceMonster, but folders work very nicely for organization at the file level. Sticking all the code files in one folder is a huge mistake, especially when you try to make sense of all those files in a file browser.

[samalex]

Honestly I love Visual Studio and SQL Server Management Studio for managing an MS SQL Server. Both I think are setup VERY well, and I only wish I had similar apps in Linux to maintain code and MySQL there.

I use both on Windows Server 2008 R2 installed in VirtualBox on my laptop which runs Ubuntu 10.04.

[Dragonbite]

I'm using Visual Studio 2008, is there anything for it or how is 2010 with PHP websites?

[MG&TL]

Have to say I agree with DangerRanger, although I can see Rice Monster's points. I don't usually bother with 'try' blocks in my code, so if something goes wrong, I temporarily increase the number of "cerr" statements.

And there's another major problem with VS. I am not kidding, the 'express edition' takes over a minute to load on my pc. And my pc is not THAT clapped out.

I love the flexibility of makefiles, and I particularly hate programs that do something 'for you' -like the stupid pre-made templates in VS, or the library linking that never seems to work. The only IDE I actually got on with was Code::Blocks, and admittedly that because I like the idea of code as blocks. (actually, talking of code in blocks, look at this. Weird. http://vvvv.org/ )

Sorry, but IDEs are not for me. And g++ has a debugger, doesn't it?

[forrestcupp]

I particularly hate programs that do something 'for you' -like the stupid pre-made templates in VS

I usually make my own templates that are set up exactly how I like to do things. It's kind of a pain, but you only have to do it once. It makes things a lot easier and quicker from then on.

[DangerOnTheRanger]

And there's another major problem with VS. I am not kidding, the 'express edition' takes over a minute to load on my pc. And my pc is not THAT clapped out.


Same here. 2Ghz, dual-core PC, and VS Express takes more than 45 seconds, which is plain unacceptable.



Sorry, but IDEs are not for me. And g++ has a debugger, doesn't it?

Yep - gdb.


me@mypc:~$ gdb

[forrestcupp]

The good thing is, if you don't like IDEs, I don't have to try to convince you to like them. Use whatever makes you happy, and I'll use what makes me happy. I'm not going to convince you to give up the command line, and you're not going to convince me to give up my nice GUI IDE. And it doesn't matter. ;)

[BrokenKingpin]

Yes, I am a C# programmer, so I use Visual Studio at work (on Windows).

I use MonoDevelop at home for C# development under Linux. It is no where near as good as VS, but it gets the job done and is improving with every release. It can also use the same solution/project files as VS.

[aaaantoine]

I've begun using Visual Web Developer 2010 Express with my site's FrontPage extensions.

Up until recently I've just been FTP'ing in and using gedit to code both classic ASP and C#. However, I've found as my codebase increases in size and as I explore classes and methods I've never used before, working without IntelliSense has turned out to be a handicap.

[samalex]

I've begun using Visual Web Developer 2010 Express with my site's FrontPage extensions.

Up until recently I've just been FTP'ing in and using gedit to code both classic ASP and C#. However, I've found as my codebase increases in size and as I explore classes and methods I've never used before, working without IntelliSense has turned out to be a handicap.

I love yet hate IntelliSence. It's definitely quick and convenient, but it has also made me lazy.

[shobon]

VS has nothing on emacs.

[MG&TL]

Agreed. 'nuff said.

[BeRoot ReBoot]

VS has nothing on emacs.

I've never tried VS, but I'll have to second this because emacs is the perfect IDE for every language there is.

[MG&TL]

At the risk of sounding sarcastic, VS is like gEdit with more buttons, and slower.

[nidzo732]

Yes, nothing beats it in c#, mono just isn't good enough.
I use eclipse and qtcreator for c++

[JDShu]

It's been a long time since I used it, but VS is the best IDE I've tried. I use emacs though, which I find to be much more powerful.

[forrestcupp]

At the risk of sounding sarcastic, VS is like gEdit with more buttons, and slower.

Ha, ha. Have you ever even used VS?

[aaaantoine]

VS is a massive install and takes forever to load, but man, the features...

Well actually the only ones I really care about at the moment are IntelliSense and an easy method for setting up LINQ Data Context DBMLs. I'm not a fan of the default auto-formatting method they use...


// for instance, they do this
if (expression)
{
....
}

// which IMO is a waste of whitespace. I prefer this.
if (expression) {
....
}

It can be changed, but the other developers in the company stick with the default. -_-

[forrestcupp]

I actually think the formatting looks nicer and more readable like that, and I code like that even when I have to do it manually. To each his own. Some people who freak out about white space just put it all on one line. I think it's unreadable that way.

[stamatiou]

Guys, it may be a silly question but why do you use C# instead of C or C++?

[Dragonbite]

Guys, it may be a silly question but why do you use C# instead of C or C++?

I'm using VB language for ASP.NET because that's what the company that was hired to create it in the first place used. No matter how much I may complain or want to move this to C#, Java or PHP, if it were any of those languages then I would not have been hired! I don't have enough experience in any of those languages (yet).

[forrestcupp]

Guys, it may be a silly question but why do you use C# instead of C or C++?

Because C# is a breeze to set up a good GUI based app, it's managed code with good garbage collection, and it's a much better language than Visual Basic. It doesn't have the raw power of C/C++, but sometimes you need efficiency and quicker coding time more than raw power.

I've programmed in C# and C++ a lot. You use whatever fits the job you're working on. Although I will say that since I started using wxWidgets in Windows, I haven't touched C#. With that, you get the easy GUI framework and the power of C++, and no dependency on .Net.

But since most of the world is in a Windows environment, the ease of C# is usually compared to the headaches of straight winapi in C. In Linux, you're going to be using GTK+ or Qt, which make things pretty easy, so the only reason to really use C# in Linux is because you're familiar with the language, or you want the managed code environment with good garbage collection.

[3Miro]

But since most of the world is in a Windows environment, the ease of C# is usually compared to the headaches of straight winapi in C. In Linux, you're going to be using GTK+ or Qt, which make things pretty easy, so the only reason to really use C# in Linux is because you're familiar with the language, or you want the managed code environment with good garbage collection.

Despite the "C" in its name, C# is a completely different class of language (different form C/C++).

From what I understand, C# in Windows is what Python is in Linux. Am I wrong?

[Dragonbite]

Despite the "C" in its name, C# is a completely different class of language (different form C/C++).

From what I understand, C# in Windows is what Python is in Linux. Am I wrong?

I think so, if I understand your analogy properly.

I've heard there are a lot of .NET developers unhappy with the direction Microsoft is going with Windows 8 (HTML5 & Javascript, not .NET focused).

[forrestcupp]

Despite the "C" in its name, C# is a completely different class of language (different form C/C++).

From what I understand, C# in Windows is what Python is in Linux. Am I wrong?

No, I'd say you're wrong about comparing it to Python. The key thing about .Net and C# is that all of the GUI stuff is built in to it. Python is just a simple object oriented language that requires 3rd party libraries for GUI stuff. C# as a language is much more comparable to Java, which in turn is almost exactly like C++ with garbage collection thrown in.

There are some differences between C# and C++, but there are a lot of similarities, too.

[3Miro]

No, I'd say you're wrong about comparing it to Python. The key thing about .Net and C# is that all of the GUI stuff is built in to it. Python is just a simple object oriented language that requires 3rd party libraries for GUI stuff.

Windows is all GUI oriented and so is C#. Linux is GUI sitting on top of CLI, so Python is CLI language with GUI capabilities. I am not saying that C# and Python are the same, just that in the context of the different OS, C# serves the same purpose as Python.



C# as a language is much more comparable to Java, which in turn is almost exactly like C++ with garbage collection thrown in.

Are you talking about syntax or technology. In terms of syntax, C/C++, Java and C# are very very similar (actually I haven't written anything in C#, but I would imagine it is like C and Java).

On the other hand, the difference in technology should be very big. C/C++ compiles into native bytecode that executes directly on the CPU. Java executes on a virtual machine. Python is a script, which means it is interpreted on the fly and never compiles into anything.



There are some differences between C# and C++, but there are a lot of similarities, too.
Does C# compile into native bytecode or virtual machine or does it not compile at all (i.e. script like Python or Bash)?

[GSF1200S]

Our college has us use Visual Studio Express for first year C++ students. Im actually trying to use Netbeans to do this (I know, I know- youre using a Java program for C++). I might try Eclipse, but im getting familiar with Netbeans so..

[era86]

One of the best IDEs I've used. Though I haven't used many extensively other than Eclipse and Anjuta.

[cgroza]

On the other hand, the difference in technology should be very big. C/C++ compiles into native bytecode that executes directly on the CPU. Java executes on a virtual machine. Python is a script, which means it is interpreted on the fly and never compiles into anything.

Actually, Python is compiled into bytecode (just like Java) before it is executed. That's what all those .pyc files are. It is slower than Java only because of its dynamic nature, and can't be easily optimized or compiled into native code until the execution.
The types are known only at run-time.

[wojox]

No, but I still have all my old college CD's (Visual Basic, C/C++, C#, J#) student editions. :P

If your going to use it, use Windows.

[ninjaaron]

every time I see this thread I think it says "Do you use visudo" or "Visual Sudo" or "Ubuntu Studio."

It's making my mind melt.

I think I'm going to report it.

[Jesse Tustin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14&feature=player_embedded

[forrestcupp]

Are you talking about syntax or technology. In terms of syntax, C/C++, Java and C# are very very similar (actually I haven't written anything in C#, but I would imagine it is like C and Java).When I was talking about C/C++, I was talking about syntax. When I was talking about Java, I was talking about syntax and technology. C# is a lot more like Java than C++ in all ways.


On the other hand, the difference in technology should be very big. C/C++ compiles into native bytecode that executes directly on the CPU. Java executes on a virtual machine. Python is a script, which means it is interpreted on the fly and never compiles into anything.


Does C# compile into native bytecode or virtual machine or does it not compile at all (i.e. script like Python or Bash)?
C# doesn't compile into native code, like C++, but it does compile into bytecode, which is a little better than being an interpreted language. Like I said, the comparison to C++ was only of the syntax. C# is a lot easier to program in than C++. When you talk about jumping through all the hoops of packaging and deployment, C# is a lot easier to deal with than Java, too.

One reason C# in Windows is better than Python in Linux, in my opinion, is that it ends up being an exe file that can be run the same way as any Windows program. The only difference is that it depends on .Net.

[3Miro]

When I was talking about C/C++, I was talking about syntax. When I was talking about Java, I was talking about syntax and technology. C# is a lot more like Java than C++ in all ways.


C# doesn't compile into native code, like C++, but it does compile into bytecode, which is a little better than being an interpreted language. Like I said, the comparison to C++ was only of the syntax. C# is a lot easier to program in than C++. When you talk about jumping through all the hoops of packaging and deployment, C# is a lot easier to deal with than Java, too.

Good info.



One reason C# in Windows is better than Python in Linux, in my opinion, is that it ends up being an exe file that can be run the same way as any Windows program. The only difference is that it depends on .Net.

If you make a Python file and give it the +x permissions, then you can just double-click on it in Nautilus and it will run (unless it is a terminal only program, then you have to say "run in terminal"). To add it to the menu, you will need to make a menu entry. There are programs in the Software Center that are written entirely in Python and they don't need anything special to run (I think Deluge was one such program).

Naturally, you will need to have Python installed.

There may be other advantages of C#, but I don't understand what you mean by this one.

[Dragonbite]

Our college has us use Visual Studio Express for first year C++ students. Im actually trying to use Netbeans to do this (I know, I know- youre using a Java program for C++). I might try Eclipse, but im getting familiar with Netbeans so..

Eclipse is also a Java program.

[IWantFroyo]

I just use Gedit and the Terminal.

I really don't need anything else, anyways.

The only IDE I can see myself using is Bluefish for HTML.

[Bandit]

Yes, I use it in Windows. There is no other IDE as good as VS. That is one thing that MS definitely got right. I use 2008, though, instead of 2010. They dropped support for a few things in 2010, and that made me mad. I use Visual Studio for C++, Visual Basic, C#, and html.

I am finding myself using Eclipse a little, though, since I'm venturing out into Android apps. But VS will always be my favorite. I wish it could do Java.

Same here, though I rather prefer Expression Studio for web related project.

[forrestcupp]

If you make a Python file and give it the +x permissions, then you can just double-click on it in Nautilus and it will run (unless it is a terminal only program, then you have to say "run in terminal"). To add it to the menu, you will need to make a menu entry. There are programs in the Software Center that are written entirely in Python and they don't need anything special to run (I think Deluge was one such program).

Naturally, you will need to have Python installed.

There may be other advantages of C#, but I don't understand what you mean by this one.

I've programmed in Python, too, using plain Python and PyGTK. I liked it in Linux, but it sucked when I ported it to Windows. And I knew that when I said that, you would point out that you can set the file's executable permissions.

But what I mean by what I said is that you don't have to do anything extra to a C# compiled file. You don't have to worry about either running it in the terminal or setting the file's executable permissions. It's just already made to run like any native executable program. To a user who has .Net installed, they can't tell any difference between a .Net app and a native one. And since Windows is now coming with .Net installed, the dependency is becoming less of an issue.

I know you're talking about using Python in Linux, but using it in Windows sucks. It doesn't feel native at all, like it can in Linux. So since they're doing so well with Mono, I kind of wonder if C# is a better choice if you care about programming cross platform.

But like I said earlier, I don't even hardly use C# anymore. I'm mostly using C++ with other frameworks and libraries, like wxWidgets. That and Java with the Android SDK.

[Spr0k3t]

The preferred IDE I use is Eclipse. If Eclipse isn't available on the computer I'm at, any text editor will do.

[Bandit]

I noticed no one here mentioned QT, its got a great IDE that IMHO is the only thing out that comes close to Visual Studios ease of use.

EDIT:
As far as a great cross platform scripting language, LUA is quickly becoming very popular. Its even used in many games like WoW due to its high speed.

[forrestcupp]

I noticed no one here mentioned QT, its got a great IDE that IMHO is the only thing out that comes close to Visual Studios ease of use.
But then you're stuck with the Qt way of doing things, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is cool that they give you a good IDE, though.

[Dragonbite]

But what I mean by what I said is that you don't have to do anything extra to a C# compiled file. You don't have to worry about either running it in the terminal or setting the file's executable permissions. It's just already made to run like any native executable program.

Are there issues or more noticeable differences when there is a GUI involved? Winforms vs. GTK# vs. Cocoa or something like that?

I'm more involved with ASP.NET so I don't have to worry as much about this, was am just wondering.

[forrestcupp]

Are there issues or more noticeable differences when there is a GUI involved? Winforms vs. GTK# vs. Cocoa or something like that?

I'm more involved with ASP.NET so I don't have to worry as much about this, was am just wondering.

I've actually wondered that, too. I've only used .Net in Windows. I wonder what it takes to create a cross platform C# program. Can you create a program using Mono and will it work without any changes to the code for someone that has .Net installed but not Mono?

[Dragonbite]

I've actually wondered that, too. I've only used .Net in Windows. I wonder what it takes to create a cross platform C# program. Can you create a program using Mono and will it work without any changes to the code for someone that has .Net installed but not Mono?

I think it at least used to be where you either would need to run GTK on the target computer or use a different toolkit.

I'm not sure if this is up-to-date, but here is a page on Gui Toolkits (http://mono-project.com/Gui_Toolkits). According to that page
There are a number of factors to consider when choosing the toolkit. Different toolkits support different platforms (Linux, Windows, OSX) and have different features such as accessibility, layout engines, and looks.

The two main toolkits offered by Mono are GTK# and Winforms, however there are several other toolkits offered by the community which may suit your needs.

Both GTK# and Winforms, while being cross-platform, have clear roots in their original platforms. Gtk+ (the root of GTK#) began life on the Linux platform, and has since been ported to Windows and OSX. Likewise, Winforms started on Windows, and the Mono project has ported it to run on Linux and OSX.

[forrestcupp]

I think it at least used to be where you either would need to run GTK on the target computer or use a different toolkit.

I'm not sure if this is up-to-date, but here is a page on Gui Toolkits (http://mono-project.com/Gui_Toolkits). According to that page

I wonder if you wrote code for Mono's winforms if it would work without any changes in .Net, and vice versa.

[Dragonbite]

I wonder if you wrote code for Mono's winforms if it would work without any changes in .Net, and vice versa.

I think it is spotty, plus more encumbered than using GTK# being proprietary (or inefficient.. not sure which).

[forrestcupp]

I think it is spotty, plus more encumbered than using GTK# being proprietary (or inefficient.. not sure which).

I'm just thinking about what would be the best cross platform solution. If you use GTK#, then you have to worry about libraries on the Windows side. Can you just include a dll file in your program's directory, or do they actually have to manually install GTK for Windows before your program will work?

[Dragonbite]

I'm just thinking about what would be the best cross platform solution. If you use GTK#, then you have to worry about libraries on the Windows side. Can you just include a dll file in your program's directory, or do they actually have to manually install GTK for Windows before your program will work?

Not sure. I agree, it would be great if there was one GUI toolkit to work on all of the systems (like Swing for Java).

[ilovelinux33467]

I noticed no one here mentioned QT, its got a great IDE that IMHO is the only thing out that comes close to Visual Studios ease of use.


+1 I have just started using Qt Creator and so far (I am only a newbie when it comes to programming) I have found it quite easy to use.

[WinterMadness]

for the life of me,i cant figure out how to use qt creator.

however vs is great

[Bandit]

for the life of me,i cant figure out how to use qt creator.

however vs is great

There are some tutorials when you first start the program. Try reading through those. It will help.



+1 I have just started using Qt Creator and so far (I am only a newbie when it comes to programming) I have found it quite easy to use.

Another big selling point, is unlike Visual Studio.net and Mono. Its much easier to publish a program across multiple platforms. So any program you create for windows in QT can be quickly ported to linux with QT libs installed.

[forrestcupp]

Another big selling point, is unlike Visual Studio.net and Mono. Its much easier to publish a program across multiple platforms. So any program you create for windows in QT can be quickly ported to linux with QT libs installed.

True. But don't forget you can use Visual Studio for Qt, too, if that's the IDE you love and are familiar with. I have my VS set up for Qt and wxWidgets, which is also cross platform. Using one of those, you should be able to port to another platform only by recompiling without any code changes, unless you add your own native routines.