English language Q: Words that don't have "to" before a place (eg:abroad, here, home)

[hanzj]

Hello,
In the following sentence, there seem to be 2 groups of "place words" that can be put
I have been ______ .

a. there
b. here
c. abroad
d. to Paris
e. to many countries
f. to the zoo.

The 2 groups are
1) those that don't need the word "to" (like in examples a, b, and c.)
2) those that need the word "to" (like in examples d, e, f)


Aside from the words "there", "here", and "abroad", what other words fit into group A ?


EDIT: Guys, remember. I'm looking for place words

[PatrickMay16]

Here's one:

I have been away.

I dunno if this would be considered a place word, though, maybe it's more of a status word. I'm not so good with language.

[hanzj]

Patrick,
thanks for your input. I'm still trying to figure out the rule/pattern, so your comment is most welcome.

EDIT: deliberating about the word "away" as place word. Perhaps, patrick is right. it may not be a place word.

[ketsugi]

gone
eating
sleeping
asleep
reading
bored
etc

From this, it seems that you can insert an adjective (to indicate a previous state which is no longer in effect) or a present active verb (to indicate a previous state of doing something, which again is no longer in effect).

[unbuntu]

Patrick,
thanks for your input. I'm still trying to figure out the rule/pattern, so your comment is most welcome.

I think "away" is a suitable addition.

I'm no linguistic but from my grammar knowledge, the pattern here are
"I've been + adverb"(e.g. home, here, ...)
"I've been to + noun"(e.g. to Paris, to the zoo, ...) and,
"I've been + adjective/past participle/gerund" (e.g. gone, sick, ...)

[Kvark]

This sounds like a case for aysiu the English teacher. But I guess the rest of us can give it a try before he comes and corrects us.

I think objects you can visit needs "to" becuase without "to" it sounds you actually used to be the object in question instead of just a visitor to it:
"I have been the doctor." Sounds like you used to work as a doctor.
"I have been to the doctor." Sounds like you visited a doctor.

This applies to your examples too:
"I have been many countries." Sounds like you used to be a country and then somehow transformed into another country and another and then lastly into a person.
"I have been to many countries." Sounds like you have been a person all along but have visited many countries.

The other group of words here such as "there" and "away" are adverbs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverb) that describe where you have been. Since they are not objects that you can be they don't need "to" to avoid confusion.

[fuscia]

i have been down that road before. (and most predict i'll be down that way again.)

[ComplexNumber]

it should also be pointed out that some local native english speakers may often leave out the "to" when addressing a place name. its incorrect english...nevertheless, it is spoken by people. for example, many people will say "i'm going paris tomorrow" when they should have more correctly said "i'm going to paris tomorrow".

[hanzj]

Ketsugi,

I wasn't looking for such words. I was looking for "place" words.

[hanzj]

Unbuntu,
You said
"I've been + adverb"(e.g. home, here, ...)
----

It's interesting that you label home, here as adverbs. Could you please elaborate? Adverb is defined as "the part of speech that modifies a verb, adjective, or other adverb." So what does the word "home" or "there" modify?

In my opinion, "home" or "there" are not adverbs. Rather, they are special place-words that have the word "to" built into it.

[ComplexNumber]

Ketsugi,

I wasn't looking for such words. I was looking for "place" words.
i have been everywhere
i have been somewhere
i have been nowhere
i have been absent
i have been present
i have been home
etc
etc

is that what you're looking for?

[hanzj]

ComplexNumber,
Yes. Yes.

Please tell me all the words that are behind your "etc etc". Thanks. I'm trying to get a whole list.

[hanzj]

Complex Number,
I've never heard natives saying "I'm going Paris tomorrow". All the native speakers I know always use the word "to".

What parts of the world do these "to-less" natives live in?

[ComplexNumber]

ComplexNumber,
Yes. Yes.

Please tell me all the words that are behind your "etc etc". Thanks. I'm trying to get a whole list. so do you want as many as posslbe?






In my opinion, "home" or "there" are not adverbs. Rather, they are special place-words that have the word "to" built into it. "home" doesn't have the word "to" built into it except in rare circumstances. neither does "there". "home" has the word "at". eg "i have been at home". "i have been to home" doesn't make sense because home isn't a noun, but a concept.



What parts of the world do these "to-less" natives live in? what does it say in my profile?

[hanzj]

ComplexNumber,
1. Yes, I'd like to have as many words as possible.
2. You are right. "Home" doesn't have the word built into it. My bad.
Regarding "there", i see the word as a shortcut for saying "to that place".

[Kvark]

Unbuntu,
You said
"I've been + adverb"(e.g. home, here, ...)
----

It's interesting that you label home, here as adverbs. Could you please elaborate? Adverb is defined as "the part of speech that modifies a verb, adjective, or other adverb." So what does the word "home" or "there" modify?

In my opinion, "home" or "there" are not adverbs. Rather, they are special place-words that have the word "to" built into it.
Words that describe where are adverbs just like words that describe how or when, from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverb):

Adverbs can be put into several groups:

1. Adverbs of manner (adverbs that tell how) Examples: happily, quickly, slowly, badly
2. Adverbs of time (adverbs that tell when) Examples: then, now, soon
3. Adverbs of place (adverbs that tell where) Examples: there, here, nowhere
4. Adverbs of degree (adverbs that tell to what extent) Examples: more, very, barely, vaguely
5. Adverbs which comment on the whole sentence. Example: Stupidly, she answered the questions. (Cf. She answered the questions stupidly)
6. Adverbs which link sentences. Example: Miss Gold, therefore, left the room. (The adverb therefore links this sentence to another.)

[therunnyman]

Boy, is that a fine and complex grammatical point...

It has to do with specificity, and an implicit prior statement of specificity. For example,

"Have you been to Paris?"
"Yes, I have been there"

Without the question, the answer makes no sense (outside the mental ward). You can't very well go around saying "I have been there" and expect to be understood. "There" has to be specified at some point.

"Home" is one of those strange cases where an implicit statement of specifity is already made and understood within the language. "Your house" is a different thing, and is preceded by a "to" because it's making a statement of specificity.

"Abroad" isn't so much a place as it is a state of being, or a state of "been" more precisely. It's more akin to "sick" than it is to "Amsterdam," that is, it's an adjective.

Does that clarify?

runny

[ComplexNumber]

ComplexNumber,
1. Yes, I'd like to have as many words as possible.
2. You are right. "Home" doesn't have the word built into it. My bad.
Regarding "there", i see the word as a shortcut for saying "to that place". if you were pointing at a map and showing someone where you had been for your holidays, it seems to be acceptable to say "i have been to there"(whilst pointing at the place).

EDIT: on second thoughts, perhaps not.

[hanzj]

kvark,
thanks for the elaboration on the different types of adverbs. So what does an "adverb of place" modify? Would we say that it modifies the word "been"?

[tseliot]

ComplexNumber,
Yes. Yes.

Please tell me all the words that are behind your "etc etc". Thanks. I'm trying to get a whole list.
Language cannot be reduced to grammar as well as you cannot learn a language (only) by a handbook or trying to learn a list of words by heart.

Try watching films (in English and without subtitles), reading books, articles, talking to native speakers and most of things will come naturally to your mind.

Just my 2 cents

[ComplexNumber]

Language cannot be reduced to grammar as well as you cannot learn a language (only) by a handbook or trying to learn a list of words by heart.

Try watching films (in English and without subtitles), reading books, articles, talking to native speakers and most of things will come naturally to your mind.

Just my 2 cents
the best (and only) way to learn a foreign language is to live in the country where native speakers are, and to interract with natives. there is no other way. one can learn a language from their own country off by heart, but unless they interact with natives, they won't know how to speak the language as it is spoken by natives. there are such things as accents, regional dialects, and local slang which will leave the learner wondering "what the heck are they on about?". i'm from the UK, born and bred, but i need an interpreter whenever i speak to someone from glasgow or newcastle because the accent is so strong.

[hanzj]

tseliot said "Language cannot be reduced to grammar as well as you cannot learn a language (only) by a handbook or trying to learn a list of words by heart."

I agree. But I still want to know the list of words.

[hanzj]

ComplexNumber said
the best (and only) way to learn a foreign language is to live in the country where native speakers are, and to interract with natives. there is no other way. one can learn a language from their own country off by heart, but unless they interact with natives, they won't know how to speak the language as it is spoken by natives.

Knowing the (slowly-changing, ever-changing) rules of a language help.


Should i still be expecting a list of words that were represented by "etc etc"?

[ComplexNumber]

Should i still be expecting a list of words that were represented by "etc etc"?
i thought i already had.

[Clay85]

I scored perfect on all the english sections of the ACT. I've been trying to teach myself Esperanto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto) (of which there is no native speaker, so I cannot just put myself around a bunch of people who speak it and learn it, which IS the easiest way!). BUT, I'm not an expert on the subject. This is just my two cents: (maybe semi-technical)

I'm not sure what most of you people are talking about at all. (I just needed to get that out of the way.) Let me ramble a bit and we'll see if I answer the question.

The helping verb "To":
In English, verbs (especially unconjugated verbs) require the word "to" before them. This pretty much only happens in english (to my knowledge). This is why this sentence construction is incorrect: "Where are the scissors at?". And this is correct: "Where are the scissors?". This is unable to be translated literally into any other language. (The helping verb "To" does not exist in other langauges.) What does exist, is another "to"...

To, From, At, In, Into, By... It's all about direction
The mover "To":
"To" is also used in a completely different (and unrelated!) way, to denote movement. This causes much confusion in native speakers who do not know this distinction. "I am going to Paris" If you are GOING somewhere, this denotes movement. You must use the word 'to' for movement.
Note that this can also be used incorrectly: "Where are you going to?" The word to at the end of the sentence is unneccessary, but in a different way than the "Helping Verb To".

I won't go into other homophones/homonyms. Anyway...
I think some of you may be confusing Adverbs with Adjectives. Please correct me if I am wrong. (if you don't feel like posting, just PM me from my profile.)

Adjectives define a noun and describe Beauty, Age, Goodness, and Size. Words such as: Beautiful, Old, Young, Good, Rich, Warm, any color (Blue, Red, Yellow), Big, Little, Long, Thick, Strong. All of these words fit into a category of BAGS (Beauty, Age, Goodness, Size [and color!])

Adverbs define a verb. They are also called correlatives, I believe. I'm not so great with these, but here are some examples: Soon, Ever,Never, All, None, Somehow, Just (because), Behold, Why, When, How, Tomorrow, Anyway, Nevertheless, However.


I have been ______ .

Well, that's an odd tense (I believe it's Present Perfect Tense?). I'd rather not work with a complex tense, as I get confused. Let's switch to a simpler tense. Let's try present tense, "I am in Paris".

Note how the word "at" has become the word "in". Remember, these words are all similar (at, in, by, from, into [movement]). They will change with tense and with meaning. So there is no need to be confused (You may ask "why?" to which my answer is "because"). Just act like it's the same thing. English is a horribly constructed language. We (english speakers) like a challenge!

Using no movement words:
a. I am there. (I am [here already].)
b. I am here. (I am here [in the kitchen].)
c. I am abroad. (I am not in my home country.)
d. I am Paris. (Hilton? You can't BE Paris the country. Unless you write a poem.)
e. I am the zoo. (It must be difficult dealing with all those animal droppings! Same thing. You can't BE the zoo. )

And with movement words:
a. I am in there. (I am in there like a pack of dogs on a three legged cat. It is actually a different tense...I'm not going to think about it. I like my brain cells.)
b. I am in here. (I am in here [the kitchen]. Same meaning, different words are said and implied, you can notice.)
c. I am in abroad. (This doesn't make sense. Maybe the spacebar has malfunctioned.)
d. I am in Paris. (Je t'aime!) (You could also ask, 'Hilton?' if you have a dirty mind.)
e. I am in the zoo. (Like a flower in a pot.)

I'm going to use the zoo example to explain the differences. (The second zoo example brings up a really funny picture in my head.)

To answer your question (I hope), There are slightly different meanings. Compare your examples. "I am in here" is slightly different than "I am here". The word IN is movement. Let me use the zoo example.

If you were to say "I am in the zoo", I would picture you inside the zoo in the same way that a flower is in a pot. The flower isn't at the pot, it is in the pot. You are not in the zoo, you are at the zoo.

Your examples can both use a movement word (such as to) and not use a movement word. But, you give them slightly different meanings. Tense has a lot to do with which movement word you use, also. Tense is the most difficult thing (in my opinion) about a langauge. Learn the tenses first, then try to figure out which movement word to use with each tense to get the correct meaning.

It's a very subtle nuance of English, and if you are contemplating this, I would say you're quite good. Probably better than a lot of native speakers! I hope this wasn't confusing and I hope it helped you.

Edit: The direct answer. There is no 'list of words' to use with 'in'. It depends on your meaning. You could make a list of words that use 'in', but you could make the very same list not using 'in'. The difference would be in the meaning of what you are trying to say.

[woedend]

more or less, if it's a specific place(but not necessarilly a proper noun), use to. If not, don't. Sure there are exceptions, but thats a good rule. The list of ones that don't take "to" is very small, i'm sure most have been listed.

[hanzj]

ComplexNumber,
You said "i thought i already had" [given me the list of words behind your "etc etc"]. Could you tell me which post of yours that you are referring to? Maybe give the permalink?

I can't seem to find your list.