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ki4jgt
July 28th, 2011, 09:58 PM
Is there a program to see how star patterns were on a certain day in history? Say, 22 years ago, on November 26?

I ask this b/c:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQPFoDkGFrU&feature=player_embedded

KiwiNZ
July 28th, 2011, 10:09 PM
No but....

"Yes - it tells us that you participate in the mass cultural delusion that the sun's apparent position relative to arbitrarily defined constellations at the time of your birth somehow affects your personality."
Sheldon Cooper 2007

:P:P:P

Just messing with you, I don't know of any but I am sure a well used popular search engine will assist you in your endeavors. :wink:

Bandit
July 28th, 2011, 10:22 PM
Celestia can. Its in the repos. Just set the date and time to what you want.

drawkcab
July 28th, 2011, 10:26 PM
Google sky map for Android is fantastic for exactly this sort of thing.

Bandit
July 28th, 2011, 10:27 PM
Google sky map for Android is fantastic for exactly this sort of thing.

Does it go back in time tho?

ki4jgt
July 28th, 2011, 10:30 PM
No but....

"Yes - it tells us that you participate in the mass cultural delusion that the sun's apparent position relative to arbitrarily defined constellations at the time of your birth somehow affects your personality."
Sheldon Cooper 2007

:P:P:P

Just messing with you, I don't know of any but I am sure a well used popular search engine will assist you in your endeavors. :wink:

I did, but I kept getting windows only programs.

coffeecat
July 28th, 2011, 10:30 PM
If you want an astrological ephemeris calculator, have a look at this community documentation page:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Astrology

You'd be wasting your time trying to install the first mentioned - Astrolog. It hasn't been in the repos since Hardy. I think an adverse aspect with Saturn in Capricorn caused its downfall! :wink: :p

cariboo
July 28th, 2011, 10:32 PM
Try Stellarium, it's in the repositories.

PaulW2U
July 28th, 2011, 10:36 PM
Celestia can. Its in the repos. Just set the date and time to what you want.


Try Stellarium, it's in the repositories.

These are astronomy programs, not astrology. The astronomical zodiac is no longer the same as the astrological zodiac!

Depending on what accuracy ki4jgt needs, these may not be what is required here.

Smilax
July 28th, 2011, 10:41 PM
i think you've missed what the op was asking.

but on the plus side.

i do like mr flintstone.

PaulW2U
July 28th, 2011, 10:43 PM
i think you've missed what the op was asking.

I don't think so.

Smilax
July 28th, 2011, 11:25 PM
i do think so

ki4jgt
July 29th, 2011, 12:32 AM
Stellarium did the trick. :-)

I'M A LIBRA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WANT MY SAGITARRIUS LUCK BACK NOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!:confused:

Tibuda
July 29th, 2011, 12:40 AM
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Astrology

I use astrolog. It is a CLI command, but I have also made a script to show the current position of the planets in conky. This is the output:


Astrolog 5.40 chart for test
Thu Aug 31, 1995 6:30pm (DT -5:00 GMT) city 122:20W 47:36N
Body Locat. Ret. Lati. Rul. House Rul. Veloc. Placidus Houses.
Sun : 8Vir03 - 0:00' (-) [ 8th house] [-] +0.967 - House cusp 1: 18Sag14
Moon: 19Sco18 + 1:55' (d) [11th house] [-] ______ - House cusp 2: 26Cap19
Merc: 3Lib41 - 1:18' (-) [ 9th house] [F] +1.254 - House cusp 3: 10Pis28
Venu: 11Vir02 + 1:25' (d) [ 9th house] [-] +1.240 - House cusp 4: 16Ari03
Mars: 25Lib49 - 0:08' (F) [10th house] [e] +0.652 - House cusp 5: 11Tau26
Jupi: 6Sag48 + 0:31' (R) [12th house] [R] +0.085 - House cusp 6: 0Gem57
Satu: 22Pis22 R - 2:20' (-) [ 3rd house] [-] -0.073 - House cusp 7: 18Gem14
Uran: 27Cap02 R - 0:34' (-) [ 2nd house] [d] -0.027 - House cusp 8: 26Can19
Nept: 23Cap05 R + 0:32' (-) [ 1st house] [-] -0.017 - House cusp 9: 10Vir28
Plut: 27Sco59 +13:17' (R) [11th house] [-] +0.013 - House cusp 10: 16Lib03
Chir: 29Vir54 - 2:50' (F) [ 9th house] [-] +0.138 - House cusp 11: 11Sco26
Cere: 29Vir11 + 7:32' (-) [ 9th house] [-] +0.447 - House cusp 12: 0Sag57
Pall: 4Vir10 - 9:46' (R) [ 8th house] [-] +0.515
Juno: 20Sag55 +14:08' (-) [ 1st house] [F] +0.092 Car Fix Mut TOT +: 8
Vest: 7Vir20 + 3:59' (-) [ 8th house] [R] +0.479 Fir 1 1 2 4 -:12
Node: 28Lib54 R + 0:00' (-) [10th house] [-] ______ Ear 3 0 6 9 M:13
S.No: 28Ari54 R + 0:00' (-) [ 4th house] [-] ______ Air 3 1 0 4 N: 7
Fort: 29Aqu30 _______ (-) [ 2nd house] [-] ______ Wat 0 2 1 3 A:11
Vert: 1Leo43 _______ (-) [ 8th house] [-] ______ TOT 7 4 9 20 D: 9
East: 13Cap37 _______ (e) [ 1st house] [R] ______ <: 8


EDIT: Here's how my conky looks like:
http://ompldr.org/vOW82NA/scrot-20110728-1440x900.png
the script I use is

#!/bin/bash
date +"%m %d %Y %H" | \
xargs astrolog -q | \
head -n10 | \
tail -n7 | \
cut -c1-11 | \
sed \
-e 's/Sun /☉/' \
-e 's/Moon/☽/' \
-e 's/Merc/☿/' \
-e 's/Venu/♀/' \
-e 's/Mars/♂/' \
-e 's/Jupi/♃/' \
-e 's/Satu/♄/' \
-e 's/:[ ]\+/ /' \
-e 's/Ari/ ♈/' \
-e 's/Tau/ ♉/' \
-e 's/Gem/ ♊/' \
-e 's/Can/ ♋/' \
-e 's/Leo/ ♌/' \
-e 's/Vir/ ♍/' \
-e 's/Lib/ ♎/' \
-e 's/Sco/ ♏/' \
-e 's/Sag/ ♐/' \
-e 's/Cap/ ♑/' \
-e 's/Aqu/ ♒/' \
-e 's/Pis/ ♓/' | \
tr '\n' ',' | \
sed -e 's/,$//' \
-e 's/,/ /g'

Bandit
July 29th, 2011, 04:39 AM
i do think so

I agree, he missed the fact that you can turn back time using them and see where the sun was rising at around what constellation at that time. It may have not been the best choose, but it was better then no choose..

drawkcab
July 29th, 2011, 06:55 AM
Does it go back in time tho?

Yes!

Bandit
July 29th, 2011, 11:24 AM
Yes!

Kewl I wasnt sure, thats why I asked. TY :)
I knew the map one went back every so many years, but wasnt sure about the star map portion. I am gonna have to install it and play around with it a tad.

drawkcab
July 30th, 2011, 01:15 AM
Kewl I wasnt sure, thats why I asked. TY :)
I knew the map one went back every so many years, but wasnt sure about the star map portion. I am gonna have to install it and play around with it a tad.

It's pretty cool because the accelerometer lets you "point" your phone or tablet at the part of the sky you want to view.

ki4jgt
July 30th, 2011, 05:16 AM
It's pretty cool because the accelerometer lets you "point" your phone or tablet at the part of the sky you want to view.

Are we talking about an android program or Iphone?

ninjaaron
July 30th, 2011, 02:37 PM
oh gosh. The Babylonians fudged the astrology. If you really want to know the future, you need to look at a sheep's liver.

Strangely enough, I actually know about these things. My MA is in Bible and Ancient Near East, so I read Akkadian and have put a fair amount of time in studying ancient divination. Astrology existed among the Babylonians, but it wasn't used so much to give signs about private individuals. It was more signs about kingdoms and kings that were in the sky. Individuals could get their fortunes through looking a the dregs in a cup from wine and tea, from watching the way a drop of oil fell through a glass of water, and especially through looking at the marks on the liver of a sheep. The modern western versions are total corruptions of the ancient arts of divination, though some of these things are still practiced in the middle east, and the practices here are still linked with the cycles of the moon, as they were in ancient times.

But really, if you're that serious about knowing your sign, it might be worth putting in your time on Assyriology to understand where all of this is coming from. Some people actually consider Mesopotamian divination the earliest form of "science," because they made enormous tables of signs and omens and recorded whatever events happened afterwards, and then made predictions about the future based on what had happened in the past.

I don't really advocate this as a good way to plan your future, but it's a fascinating study, and if you're going to pay attention to that kind of nonsense, you might as well go to the source and learn how to do it properly.

drawkcab
July 30th, 2011, 06:12 PM
Are we talking about an android program or Iphone?

Android of course! I don't think google sky map is available for iphone.

DangerOnTheRanger
July 30th, 2011, 07:39 PM
Considering Google makes Android and Apple makes iOS, and Google makes Google Sky Map (my painfully obvious fact for the day), probably so.

My painfully obvious post for the day.

Old_Grey_Wolf
July 30th, 2011, 11:38 PM
Is there a program to see how star patterns were on a certain day in history? Say, 22 years ago, on November 26?

I ask this b/c:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQPFoDkGFrU&feature=player_embedded

If you are really looking for Astrology and not Astronomy then OpenAstro.org may have what you are looking for. Here is their Home page: http://www.openastro.org/?Home. They have an Ubuntu PPA repository. They have Ephemeris files for 1800 AD - 2400 AD.

Edit: I see that coffeecat linked to a page that provided this information already; however, the instructions in the link were outdated.

ki4jgt
July 31st, 2011, 02:29 AM
oh gosh. The Babylonians fudged the astrology. If you really want to know the future, you need to look at a sheep's liver.

Strangely enough, I actually know about these things. My MA is in Bible and Ancient Near East, so I read Akkadian and have put a fair amount of time in studying ancient divination. Astrology existed among the Babylonians, but it wasn't used so much to give signs about private individuals. It was more signs about kingdoms and kings that were in the sky. Individuals could get their fortunes through looking a the dregs in a cup from wine and tea, from watching the way a drop of oil fell through a glass of water, and especially through looking at the marks on the liver of a sheep. The modern western versions are total corruptions of the ancient arts of divination, though some of these things are still practiced in the middle east, and the practices here are still linked with the cycles of the moon, as they were in ancient times.

But really, if you're that serious about knowing your sign, it might be worth putting in your time on Assyriology to understand where all of this is coming from. Some people actually consider Mesopotamian divination the earliest form of "science," because they made enormous tables of signs and omens and recorded whatever events happened afterwards, and then made predictions about the future based on what had happened in the past.

I don't really advocate this as a good way to plan your future, but it's a fascinating study, and if you're going to pay attention to that kind of nonsense, you might as well go to the source and learn how to do it properly.

Though I believe in the supernatural, I don't believe in fate. I believe in destiny, but not in fate. Destiny applies to society as a whole. Would the civil rights movement have happened without Martin Luther King, Yes and No. Destiny says, yes, because this is the way our species, as a whole operates. If one person doesn't fill one part of it, then someone else will step up and fill that space. I however do not believe in fate. Martin Luther King did not have to do what he did. He could have easily chosen not to. I believe, that as long as society believes in these practices, they will work. I believe it is also interesting to try and figure out what these people were thinking, when they created these systems of divination. Do I believe the stars have an effect on people? Does a butterfly from five states away, influence a tornado?

ninjaaron
July 31st, 2011, 10:17 PM
I believe it is also interesting to try and figure out what these people were thinking, when they created these systems of divination. Do I believe the stars have an effect on people? Does a butterfly from five states away, influence a tornado?

As far as I know, they didn't actually think the stars or other omens controlled anything. Rather, they thought that the gods manipulated the heavens and dreams and even the markings on the endtrails of animals. That's why they call it divination, cause they thought it constituted a form of divine communication.

Tibuda
August 1st, 2011, 12:29 AM
Do I believe the stars have an effect on people?

There's no causality in Astrology. You should think of planet positions as clock pointers. The pointer being on 12 is not the cause why the sun is at it highest position.

ki4jgt
August 1st, 2011, 06:39 AM
There's no causality in Astrology. You should think of planet positions as clock pointers. The pointer being on 12 is not the cause why the sun is at it highest position.

That is true, but that clock, sets a specific time for work, eating, chattering. We give it that power, but it still does it. Just as, we (before clocks) would rise as the sun rose, and sleep as it set (or a little after) though the stars can not control us, they do influence us, even from such far distances. The ships at sea used to use the north star to guide them (and several others) I'm not one for string theory, but I am one for the butterfly effect. I don't know the truth to this phrase, so don't hold me to it, but it is said, that in your lifetime, you will breath two atoms which have been breathed by everyone else on the planet. Do I believe it? NO, several people will die and be born before you even get that chance. Does it teach us about cause and effect? Yes, even something as small as an atom makes all the difference in the universe.

forrestcupp
August 1st, 2011, 02:50 PM
Another good astronomy program (not astrology) is KStars.

t0p
August 1st, 2011, 06:54 PM
Online astrological chart generator here (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/chart.php). And a nice online tool here (http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html) to tell you the longitude and latitude of a point clicked on a map (uses Google Maps).

As to whether astrology has any truth in it: I think it may. I don't know how it works, any more than I understand how the I Ching or Tarot works. I'm not a fatalist, I don't think divination can predict the future. But I believe they can show you possibilities, and maybe hint at what the right choices may be.

Hard science laughs in my face at this point. But hard science is having a lot of trouble figuring how the universe works, what with the quantum mechanics/relativity dichotomy, and the knotty (haha) subject of string theory. No one has been able to describe the way the universe works. And astrology, I ching, Tarot etc have all been round for a long time. Why their longevity if there's nothing to them?

ki4jgt
August 1st, 2011, 07:48 PM
Online astrological chart generator here (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/chart.php). And a nice online tool here (http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html) to tell you the longitude and latitude of a point clicked on a map (uses Google Maps).

As to whether astrology has any truth in it: I think it may. I don't know how it works, any more than I understand how the I Ching or Tarot works. I'm not a fatalist, I don't think divination can predict the future. But I believe they can show you possibilities, and maybe hint at what the right choices may be.

Hard science laughs in my face at this point. But hard science is having a lot of trouble figuring how the universe works, what with the quantum mechanics/relativity dichotomy, and the knotty (haha) subject of string theory. No one has been able to describe the way the universe works. And astrology, I ching, Tarot etc have all been round for a long time. Why their longevity if there's nothing to them?

People give that power to them. That's why they've been able to survive. As long as people continue to give those powers to them, they will continue to work. Take for example. I am Sagittarius. They're supposed to be lucky. Am I lucky, b/c the stars say so, or am I lucky b/c the stars say so, so it must be true, so I keep trying until it happens.

t0p
August 1st, 2011, 11:42 PM
I am Sagittarius. They're supposed to be lucky..

I don't know all the complexities of astrology, but I know for sure that telling someone he's lucky because his birth sign is Sagittarius is not astrology. All that newspaper column birth date stuff is clearly ridiculous. I'm talking about "real astrology". Astrology may not be a science, but astrologists approach it as if it is a science.

It's also useful to remember that astronomy came about directly because of astrology, just as alchemy led to the birth of chemistry. But alchemy is not practised any more (well, maybe there are a few alchemists out there trying to turn lead into gold), whereas astrology is still practised and is probably studied now more than ever. Why isn't alchemy as popular? I would have thought that turning base metals into gold would have more fascination than vague predictions.

Tibuda
August 2nd, 2011, 01:01 AM
I don't know all the complexities of astrology, but I know for sure that telling someone he's lucky because his birth sign is Sagittarius is not astrology. All that newspaper column birth date stuff is clearly ridiculous. I'm talking about "real astrology". Astrology may not be a science, but astrologists approach it as if it is a science.
That's surely not how it "works". Sag is only your Sun sign. A good lecture must know at least the position of the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. (those are, with the Sun, the seven chaldean planets)



It's also useful to remember that astronomy came about directly because of astrology, just as alchemy led to the birth of chemistry. But alchemy is not practised any more (well, maybe there are a few alchemists out there trying to turn lead into gold), whereas astrology is still practised and is probably studied now more than ever. Why isn't alchemy as popular? I would have thought that turning base metals into gold would have more fascination than vague predictions.

First, astrology is not about predictions, but about auto-knowledge.

Second, alchemy is much more than literal transmutation of metals. Well, even that kind of alchemy still exists, but those days they are trying to "transmutate" vegetable oils into substitutes of petroleum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofuels), the modern gold. :)

Joke apart, alchemy is still practiced in hermetic and rosicrucian fraternities. No, they do not turn lead into gold (which does not mean it is impossible). The transmutation of metals is used a symbol of the proccess to improve ourselves. The lead is your imperfect self to become perfect like gold. They call it "spiritual alchemy". Even an academic (Jung) recognized the psicology of alchemical symbolism. Some of the old alchemists do see alchemy this way. From the Alchemical Cathechism:


Q. When the Philosophers speak of gold and silver, from which they extract their matter, are we to suppose that they refer to the vulgar gold and silver?
A. By no means; vulgar silver and gold are dead, while those of the Philosophers are full of life.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/alc/tschoudy.htm

There's also some erotic symbolism in alchemical texts, but there are kids in the forum. :)

Conclusion: The reason why there are more charlatanism in astrology than in alchemy is because it is much easier to go around making fraudulent predictions based in only one planet (the Sun) than to turn lead into gold.




Hard science laughs in my face at this point. But hard science is having a lot of trouble figuring how the universe works, what with the quantum mechanics/relativity dichotomy, and the knotty (haha) subject of string theory. No one has been able to describe the way the universe works. And astrology, I ching, Tarot etc have all been round for a long time. Why their longevity if there's nothing to them?
Skeptcism can be as blind as faith. Lack of evidence is not a proof.