How to perform your own surgery

[forrestcupp]

A California man attempted to perform his own hernia surgery with a butter knife (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/07/26/calif-man-attempts-surgery-on-hernia-with-butter-knife/?test=latestnews). Unbelievable!

And he tried to cauterize it with a cigarette he was smoking. This is sad, but I couldn't stop laughing when I read this. That's just bizarre.


Edit: I know I said I wouldn't quote Fox News anymore, but this was just too good to pass up. :)

[pwnst*r]

Drugs are bad, mmmkay?

[jtarin]

Watch out....."Any topic or discussion that causes problems or drama will be closed. This area is intended for fun and community building, not arguments. Please take those elsewhere. Thanks!":P

[Smilax]

NHS anyone?

:popcorn:

[drawkcab]

NHS anyone?

:popcorn:

We Americans just don't get it. :confused: :(

[krapp]

A California man attempted to perform his own hernia surgery with a butter knife (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/07/26/calif-man-attempts-surgery-on-hernia-with-butter-knife/?test=latestnews). Unbelievable!

And he tried to cauterize it with a cigarette he was smoking. This is sad, but I couldn't stop laughing when I read this. That's just bizarre.


Edit: I know I said I wouldn't quote Fox News anymore, but this was just too good to pass up. :)

I'm still trying to see what's funny about this; your laughter is inhumane, and this thread should be closed accordingly. Yes it's bizarre and perhaps worth commenting, but laughing at it is obscene.

[Thewhistlingwind]

but laughing at it is obscene.

Meh, that aspect isn't even really a factor for me.

I just don't like random news stories, if I wanted that I'd go to reddit or digg.

[Bandit]

A California man attempted to perform his own hernia surgery with a butter knife (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/07/26/calif-man-attempts-surgery-on-hernia-with-butter-knife/?test=latestnews). Unbelievable!

And he tried to cauterize it with a cigarette he was smoking. This is sad, but I couldn't stop laughing when I read this. That's just bizarre.


Edit: I know I said I wouldn't quote Fox News anymore, but this was just too good to pass up. :)


Drugs are bad, mmmkay?

LMAO...

He must have been watching House on Fox..

To bad dude didnt realize a hernia was torn inner skin/muscle tissue. He could have used his wife's sowing kit then!!

[forrestcupp]

I'm still trying to see what's funny about this; your laughter is inhumane, and this thread should be closed accordingly. Yes it's bizarre and perhaps worth commenting, but laughing at it is obscene.

The guy did a very stupid thing to himself. If someone else did this to him against his will, it would be inhumane to laugh.

Sometimes people deserve to be laughed at. I, myself, have done stupid things that deserve to be laughed at.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

The guy did a very stupid thing to himself. If someone else did this to him against his will, it would be inhumane to laugh.

Sometimes people deserve to be laughed at. I, myself, have done stupid things that deserve to be laughed at.


I agree (well, not with the last part ;))
Most humor is based on other people's mistakes. Nothing inhumane about that.
If a guy does that to himself, he deserves what he gets, and, yes, laughing at his stupidity is perfectly natural.

[Bandit]

The guy did a very stupid thing to himself. If someone else did this to him against his will, it would be inhumane to laugh.

Sometimes people deserve to be laughed at. I, myself, have done stupid things that deserve to be laughed at.

I agree, its called "constructive criticism". If you do something stupid and everyone lols at you. Then you learn it was stupid. If no one acknowledges the act, then it will go uncorrected.

[Ghost|BTFH]

I LoL'ed over someone taking offense to people laughing at this.

Seriously?

I laughed my *** off at the woman who spilled coffee on her crotch and sued over it...

Of course, I sobbed when she won.

[lisati]

He must have been watching House on Fox..

I saw that episode too.

[doas777]

yeah, this is why America is in trouble. somewhere along the line about half of us decided that the only good role models were John Wayne and the Marlboro man.

[Rasa1111]

Sounds like he's mentally ill.
No "right' person would/could do this.
I fail to see the humor. . O_o

[doas777]

Sounds like he's mentally ill.
No "right' person would/could do this.
I fail to see the humor. . O_o
well, the question is whether you like to laugh.
if we deem that everyone who does something stupid is mentally ill, and further that it is inappropriate to laugh at mentally ill people, then there is nothing left to laugh at.

since humans are biochemically stimulated to laugh and see humor in stuff (and stupid people), it is against our nature to make this kind of distinction. if nothing else, were what you say accepted by society, FOX would not have a TV channel, and Reality TV would be as unreal as Xanadu.

[Bandit]

If he would have died, then I wouldn't LOL. But since he didn't and no one said or was anywhere stated that he was no more mentally ill then the rest of us. He is fair game for worlds dumbest.. But like a mentioned, if he is mental, then it would be less then tasteful to laugh. But to the best of our knowledge he is just another dumb___.

[Ghost|BTFH]

1) He's not dead. Although even death does not disqualify humor material. I site Darwin Awards for this...

2) He didn't get a sharp knife, as some would consider a logical tool to attempt self surgery...he used...A BUTTER KNIFE...now, the only thing funnier at this point would be a spoon...as there's the whole movie reference about cutting someone's heart out with a spoon, but I digress.

3) Yes, it's a given, he's insane. People who do crazy things ARE GENERALLY CRAZY. Crazy can be funny. I site George Carlin for this...

4) Did I mention he STUCK HIMSELF WITH A BUTTER KNIFE?!?!?! Seriously? I just want to know how...I can't even cut a bagel with one of those damned things and here this guy is, performing surgery with one - ON HIMSELF!

5) He stuck a cigarette in the wound!!! How the...who the...what the...OW...just...OW!

This is definitely a WTF comedic moment. Sadly, George Carlin is not around to turn this one into a routine.

On the serious side, yes, it's sad that the this crazy person was allowed A) Access to cigarettes. B) A lighter. C) A butter knife.

GOOD THING HIS WIFE DIDN'T NEED AN OPERATION TOO!

[Inodoro Pereyra]

1) He's not dead. Although even death does not disqualify humor material. I site Darwin Awards for this...!

Definitely! 1000 ways to die (on Spike channel) has countless hilarious accounts of idiots like this one, or worse.

I have to add, I've been in a position to have to poke myself with a knife (a hobby knife), in cases of beard hairs that decided to grow underneath the skin, and the sole act of cutting the skin is very painful. I can't even imagine sticking myself with a 6 inch butter knife!:shock:

[Paqman]

Dude is schizophrenic, apparently.

So what exactly are you supposed to do in the US if you've got no insurance and a pre-existing condition like a massive hernia? No insurance company would cover you (presumably), so what provision is there for getting it sorted? I'm not having a go, I'm just wondering how the US system deals with these cases.

[forrestcupp]

For those of you who don't see any humor in this, feel free to move on to the next thread. ;)



This is definitely a WTF comedic moment. Sadly, George Carlin is not around to turn this one into a routine.
I honestly don't see how anyone but the subject can not find this funny. You can't make this stuff up.



So what exactly are you supposed to do in the US if you've got no insurance and a pre-existing condition like a massive hernia? No insurance company would cover you (presumably), so what provision is there for getting it sorted? I'm not having a go, I'm just wondering how the US system deals with these cases.
You do what every illegal alien does. Supposedly, hospitals are not allowed to turn anyone away, at least the ER. You go in, and have them do whatever is necessary. Then you ask for financial support, which they can write off in their taxes. Then you either file bankruptcy on the remaining charges, or you just don't pay.

[Paqman]

You do what every illegal alien does. Supposedly, hospitals are not allowed to turn anyone away, at least the ER. You go in, and have them do whatever is necessary.

I'm pretty sure they'd be able to turn you away if you're a non-emergency case (or at least refer you). Otherwise they'd have timewasters clogging up the whole system.



Then you ask for financial support, which they can write off in their taxes. Then you either file bankruptcy on the remaining charges, or you just don't pay.

Can you not just apply for the financial support and get it done through normal channels?

[Bandit]

I'm pretty sure they'd be able to turn you away if you're a non-emergency case (or at least refer you). Otherwise they'd have timewasters clogging up the whole system.


LOL not if he cut himself open and stuck a cig in it.. I see this is more sane then insane..

[jtarin]

I'm sure you could find a "Do-it-Yourself" Hernia Kit here (http://www.scientificsonline.com/science-kits/diy-kits.html). Type "hernia" in the search box.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

You sure? Take a look at this:

http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20060414/do-it-yourself-laser-eye-surgery-kit-for-100/

[sammiev]

You can do your eyes and a hernia moments a part. Why the need for health care? ;)

[jtarin]

Who says there's not a better mousetrap (http://medgadget.com/2010/06/safestitch_medicals_amid_stapler_now_available_in_ the_us_1.html)????

Even an office one would have been better than a butter knife!!!!

[Rasa1111]

well, the question is whether you like to laugh.
if we deem that everyone who does something stupid is mentally ill, and further that it is inappropriate to laugh at mentally ill people, then there is nothing left to laugh at.

since humans are biochemically stimulated to laugh and see humor in stuff (and stupid people), it is against our nature to make this kind of distinction. if nothing else, were what you say accepted by society, FOX would not have a TV channel, and Reality TV would be as unreal as Xanadu.


Yep, I love to laugh,
I do it often. lol
Just not at sick peoples expense.
I see humor "in stuff" all the time.

I don't quite remember saying it was "inappropriate to laugh"
Just that I failed to see the humor in this case.
But if you want to laugh, have at it!

I also don't remember saying that "anyone who does something stupid is mentally ill".
Only that this man seems mentally ill.

and really? nothing else to laugh at? lol O_o
alright.

Fox news not having a channel?
reality tv not existing?

Both completely fine with me.
I don't even watch tv.
It's all crap. lol
:P


For those of you who don't see any humor in this, feel free to move on to the next thread. :wink:

Yes sir! :rolleyes:

[forrestcupp]

Can you not just apply for the financial support and get it done through normal channels?Yeah, that's the first thing I said. The problem with that is that they don't always give it to you, and when they do, they hardly ever pay the entire bill. If you don't have any money at all, the $1000 remainder is not much different than the original $5000 bill.

The hospital in the town that I live will not give you any assistance at all if you have any sort of insurance at all. So you could have really crappy insurance that leaves you having to still pay a few thousand dollars for some tests, and they'll flat out deny assistance based on the fact that you have some type of insurance.



I don't quite remember saying it was "inappropriate to laugh"
Just that I failed to see the humor in this case.
But if you want to laugh, have at it!

Someone else before you said that.

[Docaltmed]

Betcha dollars to donuts his browser is IE.

[forrestcupp]

Betcha dollars to donuts his browser is IE.

Lol. Great analysis. :)

[Rasa1111]

Betcha dollars to donuts his browser is IE.

haha!:lolflag:
now that ; I can laugh about . lol :P

[Paqman]

Yeah, that's the first thing I said. The problem with that is that they don't always give it to you, and when they do, they hardly ever pay the entire bill. If you don't have any money at all, the $1000 remainder is not much different than the original $5000 bill.

The hospital in the town that I live will not give you any assistance at all if you have any sort of insurance at all. So you could have really crappy insurance that leaves you having to still pay a few thousand dollars for some tests, and they'll flat out deny assistance based on the fact that you have some type of insurance.


I see. That's sort of the impression we get of your health system, but it's interesting to hear it confirmed by someone in the US. Clearly something is stopping this guy from getting the help he needs.

My niece is currently in the US receiving what I would imagine is some very expensive treatment (proton radiotherapy). Since she's British it'll all be paid for, but if she was a local her folks would be looking at an enormous bill. It seems a bit unfair that a foreigner can get a better deal using US equipment than a US citizen can.

[Rasa1111]

I see. That's sort of the impression we get of your health system, but it's interesting to hear it confirmed by someone in the US. Clearly something is stopping this guy from getting the help he needs.Yes, Your impression is right.
It is a mess., to put it lightly. :/

[jtarin]

Yes, Your impression is right.
It is a mess., to put it lightly. :/
No it's no more a mess than Socialized Medicine.....it only seems that way due to the transparency of our system.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

No it's no more a mess than Socialized Medicine.....it only seems that way due to the transparency of our system.

I don't know what makes you think that. I come from a country where medicine is socialized. EVERYBODY can get taken care of, for free. Yet hospitals work much better than what I've seen, so far, here in Miami.

[jtarin]

I don't know what makes you think that. I come from a country where medicine is socialized. EVERYBODY can get taken care of, for free. Yet hospitals work much better than what I've seen, so far, here in Miami.I wouldn't judge healthcare by your limited experience in one location or even in many. Hospitals are businesses in the US and each one is unique in their approach to service. My experience with Socialized medicine is my present life in Russia. While the treatment is free and drugs low cost......the diagnostics and equipment is poor or non-existent. How much is your health worth??? :-k

[Paqman]

I wouldn't judge healthcare by your limited experience in one location or even in many.

Nor should you. It doesn't sound like your current situation has much to do with other countries that have "socialised medicine". In my experience the standard of care you get is affected by a lot more things than just the funding structure of the system.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

While the treatment is free and drugs low cost......the diagnostics and equipment is poor or non-existent. How much is your health worth??? :-k

Well, I can tell you about my 35 years of experience with the Argentinian health care system, and my experience (and that of many other people I know) with the health care system here.

I'm not gonna go into much detail on the Argentinian system, or else this is gonna be the longest reply in the history of the forum. Suffice to say you don't have to pay a penny for ANY treatment at all, including hospital admission for as long as it takes, meds and supplies while in the hospital, and whatever procedure you may need done, no matter how complex. I will say this, as a point of comparison with my experience in Miami. I have NEVER waited more than an hour in any Argentinian emergency room, to be treated. There's actually a posted hotline in all emergency rooms, stating that if you're made to wait more than that, you can call and report the hospital.
Meanwhile, here in Miami, one day, for no apparent reason, I woke up with some big a$$ nausea. After finding out, in the US, metoclopramide (one o the most common antiemetic over the counter medicines in the World) is sold under prescription only (which would partially answer how much is my health worth here), I decided to go to the ER, at the Jackson Memorial Hospital, in Miami.
After 14 HOURS sitting on a chair, finally, a nurse acknowledged my presence there, and took me in to draw my blood. Then, about 1 four later, I was finally send to see the doctor.
The guy didn't even raised his head when I got in. I said "Doctor, I need a prescription for metoclopramide and ranitidine". He wrote the prescription, and send me on my way.
Later on, I received my bill in the mail: 1300 bucks. I guess that's how much my health is worth here.

Again, I could post dozens of cases like that, from people I know, but it'd get boring. They're pretty much all the same.

Finally, last March (exactly 3 days after my birthday), I was hit by a car, while I was crossing the street. 2 months later, the guys at the rehab clinic I was sent to, finally decided to send me in for a ct scan, only to find I have a fractured L1 vertebra. Now, since I don't have any health insurance (I'm unemployed), and, as per Florida law the insurance of the guy who hit me only covers me up to $10000, I can't afford to go have surgery, to correct the problem, so I have to suck it up. So I guess that would be the ultimate answer to your question: unless you can pay, your health in the US (or at least in the state of Florida) is worth $10000. If what you need is more expensive than that, your health is worth nothing.

[jtarin]

As with all things you use... learn to use them.....that was your fault you waited 14 hours. You want service you have to demand it sometimes. You could have just gone to a General practitioner outside of the hospital for treatment at a fraction of the cost or dialed 911 for emergency treatment with only minutes to wait. It doesn't sound as if your as knowledgeable about healthcare in the US as in your home country. Free is not always the best.
As a word of advice......use the crosswalks,the lights and look both ways when crossing the street. You'll keep those other vertebrae in good condition. A non-resident of the US can get free treatment if you know how.:P

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Hardly the point. In Argentina you will always get the same treatment, whether you know the system or not.

About the accident, if I had used the crosswalk, I'd be dead by now. The guy took a blind corner so fast that he couldn't avoid hitting me, even when I was crossing the street more than 100 ft away from the corner, and, even after braking for those 100 ft, he hit me so hard I slid over the roof of the car, and landed on my back, behind it. And that with a Corolla. If he had been driving a Hummer, I'd be a stain in the middle of the road by now.

[jtarin]

The true picture is slightly different than you would have us believe in alluding to "Socialized Medicine".


The healthcare system that is currently in place in Argentina is quite different than socialized medicine or even capitalist healthcare. It is actually three different tiers of healthcare. The three sectors or tiers consist of public healthcare which is funded through taxes, private healthcare which is purchased by an individual and social security which is funded through obligatory contributions. There is a central group that oversees each and every one of these healthcare organizations though. This is to ensure none of them are not acting in the best interests of the individual and are using your funds towards your healthcare.

There are over 9 million people who are covered by public healthcare. However, this is not public healthcare as you might typically think of it. Instead, it is run by an umbrella of union organizations. This basically means that instead of the government controlling your healthcare, it will be controlled by your union. Right now you have to be employed and paying dues to one of the union organizations to be covered. It will also cover your dependents. This can cause problems if you are unemployed, as many people have found out. There are currently just under 9 million people being covered by this healthcare system.

Get a job and be covered in the US too.....you want something you have to work for it.....not expect it to be spoon-fed to you.
I have entirely free healthcare in the US and have had for many years. It's there for those that know how to get it. As with all things......there is a price. Nothing is absolutely free.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

The true picture is slightly different than you would have us believe in alluding to "Socialized Medicine".

I find it funny that you want to tell somebody who lived all his life in a country how his health care system is, based on some obscure quote.
There are different tiers of health care in my country. However, the article you quoted has many inaccuracies:

1. EVERYBODY has access to free health care, just for being in the country. That's regardless of migratory status (there are no "illegal aliens" in Argentina, as that would be unconstitutional), employment, taxes status, etc. You can be homeless, and had never worked a day in your life, and you still have a right to free health care. Actually, there's a little known fact(in here) about Argentinian health care: before the 1982 Falklands war, the inhabitants of the Falkland islands, when in need of health care, were transported by helicopter to the continent, to receive FREE medical attention in Argentinian hospitals, since Great Britain did not maintain any hospitals in the islands. Bottom line, being human is more important than being wealthy.

2. Argentina is one of the countries with the highest tax evasion rates in the World. If hospitals were maintained by taxes, they'd be long gone. Hospitals are maintained mostly by voluntary contributions.

3. It's true there's another tier controlled by some unions (not all of them provide that service), but that service does not imply paying any extra mandatory fee at all, and it's absolutely free for the people belonging to that union. ALL workers in Argentina get a deduction from their paychecks, for the corresponding union (which is 1% of the paycheck), whether they receive union funded health care or not. Either way, belonging to a union does not preclude you from getting free health care at any hospital, if you so decide.

4. There is a third tier, that consist in private hospitals and practices, that one can CHOOSE to use. That also doesn't mean you lose the right to free health care, anytime.

5. There's NO SUCH THING as social security in Argentina. It just doesn't exist, period.

6. There are no obligatory contributions whatsoever for health care. A worker in Argentina gats 3 deductions from his paycheck: 1%, as said before, for the union, 3% for the retirement plan, and 17% for the PRIVATE HEALTH CARE that his employer must provide.

7. Unions don't control the health care, they just fund some of it. Health care (ANY tier of it) must respond to the ministry of public health.


Get a job and be covered in the US too.....you want something you have to work for it.....not expect it to be spoon-fed to you.
I have entirely free healthcare in the US and have had for many years. It's there for those that know how to get it. As with all things......there is a price. Nothing is absolutely free.

BS. I have had many jobs here, and have never been covered. If you want to be covered here, you have to pay for the health insurance, and pray they don't screw you with the fine print.
Bottom line, in the US, health care is a business, elsewhere, it's a service.

And no, I didn't fly 8000 miles to get anything spoon fed to me. Actually, I have never even accepted any government help at all, not even unemployment compensation, precisely because I didn't come here looking for charity. But it pains me to see how the citizens of the most powerful country on Earth are being treated like garbage.

[jtarin]

I find it funny that you want to tell somebody who lived all his life in a country how his health care system is, based on some obscure quote.As I find it equally hilarious you telling me. Tell me if it was so great why did you leave? And if it is so terrible in the US why do you stay?

[Bandit]

Our health system here in the US will turn those who have money into those who had money.. Those who have no money, well there's a butter knife and pall malls..

[Inodoro Pereyra]

As I find it equally hilarious you telling me. Tell me if it was so great why did you leave? And if it is so terrible in the US why do you stay?

Now you're getting aggressive.
I didn't leave my country because of the health care. I left because I knew the idiot they'd just elected president would screw up the country, just as he did. And I didn't come here because of the health care either.

[Bandit]

Now you're getting aggressive.
I didn't leave my country because of the health care. I left because I knew the idiot they'd just elected president would screw up the country, just as he did. And I didn't come here because of the health care either.

Hey No politics here.. Thank you... Please move alone..

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Our health system here in the US will turn those who have money into those who had money.. Those who have no money, well there's a butter knife and pall malls..

Yep. Sad, but true.

By the way, Jtarin: I tell you about US health care, based on my experience living here for the last 11 years. You're trying to tell me about mine, based on an article. See the difference?

[jtarin]

Right you are!!

[jtarin]

Yep. Sad, but true.

By the way, Jtarin: I tell you about US health care, based on my experience living here for the last 11 years. You're trying to tell me about mine, based on an article. See the difference?Should I base it on your "article" here?......no difference.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Should I base it on your "article" here?......no difference.

No, you just shouldn't argue on things you know nothing about.

[jtarin]

No, you just shouldn't argue on things you know nothing about.
That's excellent advice you should partake of a large helping before your tummy gets upset again. I don't argue....I present the facts for you to dispute terribly.:P

[Inodoro Pereyra]

That's excellent advice you should partake of a large helping before your tummy gets upset again. I don't argue....I present the facts for you to dispute terribly.:P

This is getting old.
You didn't present any facts. You presented a horribly inaccurate article, and didn't even have the manners of posting the corresponding link.
Now, feel free to post whatever rebuttal you can come up with. I'm done hijacking this thread. My point has been abundantly made.

My apologies to the OP.

[jtarin]

This is getting old.
You didn't present any facts. You presented a horribly inaccurate article, and didn't even have the manners of posting the corresponding link.
Now, feel free to post whatever rebuttal you can come up with. I'm done hijacking this thread. My point has been abundantly made.

My apologies to the OP.I agree with you once more....I'm not disputing your experience, but what I am saying is don't compare it to anyone else's.

The OP probably is getting as much entertainment form this diatribe as his original link.

[doas777]

No it's no more a mess than Socialized Medicine.....it only seems that way due to the transparency of our system.
what transparency? the only info we get about how bad our healthcare system is, is the huge bills in our mailboxes, and the knowledge that most people are in the same boat.

[forrestcupp]

Hospitals are businesses in the US and each one is unique in their approach to service. My experience with Socialized medicine is my present life in Russia. While the treatment is free and drugs low cost......the diagnostics and equipment is poor or non-existent. How much is your health worth??? :-kAnd that's the whole reason that healthcare (not the payment of healthcare, but healthcare itself) is so good in the US. Since hospitals are businesses, they are in competition with each other. They don't really compete in price, but in equipment and quality of care.


Nor should you. It doesn't sound like your current situation has much to do with other countries that have "socialised medicine". In my experience the standard of care you get is affected by a lot more things than just the funding structure of the system.Just don't forget that your niece had to come to the US for specialized care. We pay a lot for insurance and hospital bills, but they do a pretty good job here.

[Ghost|BTFH]

You didn't present any facts. My point has been abundantly made.

Okay, mind if I pop in and present some facts?

FACT: You moved from your COUNTRY to the United States of America because something about your country was failing you drastically enough to leave.

FACT: You are living in FLORIDA, one of FIFTY STATES we have here in this country. Presumably you are living in ONE CITY out of the 411 cities, towns and villages in Florida.

FACT: Argentina is not even rated as a 1st world country. Let's give you a quick reality check of this most awesome country you left:

GDP World Ranking: 44 ($6,940)
Life Expectancy: 47 (74 years)
Literacy: 67 (97%)

Now, let's take a quick peek up the USA's skirt, just to be fair...

GDP World Ranking: 6 ($34,280)
Life Expectancy: 30 (77 years)
Literacy: 1 (99%)

Is it possible, just slightly possible, that your experience may be an infinitesimal myopic view on a VAST NATIONAL EXPERIENCE of health-care in our country?

Please only argue the facts...so far, the facts show you left an inferior country to live in a better country, you've had a bad experience with the health-care system (and obviously know nothing about the legal system and "civil lawsuits" which can cover far more than what the medical expenses are that you've been burdened with - my sympathies for that) and have thereby judged our entire medical system on one Jackson County Hospital...which could be the armpit of hospitals in that state, let alone the country.

Not hatin' just sayin'...

[Inodoro Pereyra]

FACT: You moved from your COUNTRY to the United States of America because something about your country was failing you drastically enough to leave.

As I stated before, I moved because my PRESIDENT failed me, not my country. That said, I realize my prior comments may have created the impression that I don't like the US, or that I somehow resent being here. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Having come to the US armed only with the "knowledge" that's common in most other countries about life here (and which, IMO, is the main reason why most people outside the country despise you), it took me less than a week in here, to fall in love with the country and its people (well, MOST of its people ;)). But as much as I love this country, that doesn't keep me from seeing what I think are its shortcomings.



FACT: You are living in FLORIDA, one of FIFTY STATES we have here in this country. Presumably you are living in ONE CITY out of the 411 cities, towns and villages in Florida.

I live in Miami, IIRC, the 5th largest city in the US. Over the 11 years I lived in this country, I lived in another 4 cities, in 3 states (Ft. Lauderdale, Florida; Sanford, Florida; Charlotte, North Carolina (definitely the most astonishingly beautiful city I've ever set foot on); and Fairfax, North Virginia).



FACT: Argentina is not even rated as a 1st world country. Let's give you a quick reality check of this most awesome country you left:

GDP World Ranking: 44 ($6,940)
Life Expectancy: 47 (74 years)
Literacy: 67 (97%)

Now, let's take a quick peek up the USA's skirt, just to be fair...

GDP World Ranking: 6 ($34,280)
Life Expectancy: 30 (77 years)
Literacy: 1 (99%)

Which makes it even more pathetic that, like I said before, the most powerful country in the World won't take care of its citizens like a poor, 3rd World country does.


Is it possible, just slightly possible, that your experience may be an infinitesimal myopic view on a VAST NATIONAL EXPERIENCE of health-care in our country?

Of course it is, and I stated so, long ago. But that's beside the point. This whole thing started after somebody stated an uninformed opinion on socialized medicine, implying that the US health care system is better, which is not, at least in MY opinion, and that of everybody I have spoken about it with.


Please only argue the facts...so far, the facts show you left an inferior country to live in a better country, you've had a bad experience with the health-care system (and obviously know nothing about the legal system and "civil lawsuits" which can cover far more than what the medical expenses are that you've been burdened with - my sympathies for that) and have thereby judged our entire medical system on one Jackson County Hospital...which could be the armpit of hospitals in that state, let alone the country.

Not hatin' just sayin'...

Nope. The facts show I left a bad life in a country that, in some respects is vastly superior to this one, in pursuit of a dream that, to date, hasn't come true. That said, there's no such thing as "superior" or "inferior" countries. At least in my (very limited) experience, all countries have good and bad things.
But the most important fact has actually been provided by you in this last paragraph. The FACT that, in the US, to get proper medical care, you have to know the legal system. I'm not sure you fully understand how morally OBSCENE that fact actually is.

[forrestcupp]

But as much as I love this country, that doesn't keep me from seeing what I think are its shortcomings.I agree that the healthcare system is a shortcoming. But I don't agree that socialized healthcare is the answer.

I think that things need to be done to drive the cost of healthcare down. For one thing, medical malpractice lawsuits need to be gotten under control. People's greed has forced all doctors and hospitals to have to buy very expensive insurance policies, which in turn drives up their prices. There is a point to malpractice lawsuits, but people have become way too greedy, and there needs to be some more control there.



implying that the US health care system is better, which is not, at least in MY opinion, and that of everybody I have spoken about it with.Just don't mix up health care with the health care system. The US health care system is a mess, but US health care is top notch. That's why everyone around the world sends their hard cases to us.

[krapp]

Oh this is tiresome.

Inodoro must be puzzled by the fact that he has to actively provide "proof" of what's a pretty accepted conclusion: private health care is a terribly expensive and inefficient way to keep the citizens of a country healthy.

Here's what the US media doesn't tell you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_systems#Cross-country_comparisons

As for the Russian system, lol, all I know is that life expectancy was higher in the USSR than in the new and improved Russian Federation.

[Ric_NYC]

Know yourself (inside and out) before you start your own surgery.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9162/headupass.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/215/headupass.jpg/)

[inobe]

reminds me of that fella that pulled his own teeth:D

[Inodoro Pereyra]

I agree that the healthcare system is a shortcoming. But I don't agree that socialized healthcare is the answer.

It's not a white/black scenario. 100% socialized health care (i.e. the Cuban model) has proven to be inefficient. But universal health care has proven to work all around the World for a long time, and that's what the US health care system fails to provide. You can't just forget about a portion of your population, just because they're unemployed, or homeless, or whatever have you, and just use the excuse that hospitals won't reject any emergencies. Whatever their reasons for not having the money, or the insurance, they're still human, and they deserve the same access to health care as any human being does.

About the malpractice suits, I partially agree with you. I do agree that malpractice suits here are ridiculous, but what's wrong is the compensation, not the system. Medical malpractice is the only effective way to make doctors responsible for their mistakes, but they should produce a punishment for the doctor, not make the patient rich.


Just don't mix up health care with the health care system. The US health care system is a mess, but US health care is top notch. That's why everyone around the world sends their hard cases to us.

I never did. This whole discussion was about the health care system, not about the quality of health care. The quality of health care becomes unimportant, if people don't have access to it. Just look at the link Krapp provided. ALL the countries listed in that table have universal health care (except the US, of course), and in all of them the health care is as good or better than here.

As per "everybody around the world" sending their hard cases to the US, no, sorry, you got it wrong. There are several countries that routinely take that kind of cases. The US is one of them, not the only one. You would be surprised to learn how many cases go to Cuba, for example.


Oh this is tiresome.

Inodoro must be puzzled by the fact that he has to actively provide "proof" of what's a pretty accepted conclusion: private health care is a terribly expensive and inefficient way to keep the citizens of a country healthy.

Yes, it is.

I wouldn't say I'm puzzled (I've had plenty of examples of the selective "information" Americans are fed on a daily basis), but it does upset me to see people being treated like that.

[Bandit]

And that's the whole reason that healthcare (not the payment of healthcare, but healthcare itself) is so good in the US. Since hospitals are businesses, they are in competition with each other. They don't really compete in price, but in equipment and quality of care.

Just don't forget that your niece had to come to the US for specialized care. We pay a lot for insurance and hospital bills, but they do a pretty good job here.

I am going to have to disagree with you. Myself having traveled most the world while in the Navy have seen and sometimes used many other hospitals. The US has the worst healthcare system in the world and is the most expensive. Some say our hospitals try more for you, BS total BS.. Our hospitals try to stick you with a healthier bill and its not always in their best interest to make you healthy. The longer you stay in the hospital the more money they make. They are not in the business of healing you here, they are in the business of $$$$$$$$.. Those hospitals that make very little money like government owned clinics dont pamper people. They have to get you as healthy as they can as quick as they can. The way I see it, if I want to drop $500 bucks a night to get pampered there is a freaking Hilton for that.. If I want to get weal then I want a hospital..

Any time I have ever been in another countries hospital, they charge only what they have to, its normally very affordable even for the local community and they get the job done best they can as quick as they can.

Thats about as much as I can get into that without getting political.

[forrestcupp]

It would probably be good to steer this thread back to laughing at the guy who idiotically tried to cut out his hernia with a butter knife and cauterize it with a cigarette. ;)

[krapp]

It would probably be good to steer this thread back to laughing at the guy who idiotically tried to cut out his hernia with a butter knife and cauterize it with a cigarette. ;)

Nope, I was always hoping for the closing of this misbegotten thread!

Anyone who laughs at such misfortune clearly isn't interested in subsidizing the standard of living of others, so the politics were in the thread from the start.

[Paqman]

Just don't forget that your niece had to come to the US for specialized care. We pay a lot for insurance and hospital bills, but they do a pretty good job here.

Oh, we're very grateful that we could use the equipment in the US. The NHS is building three proton radiotherapy centres in the UK, but they aren't ready yet, so we're flying patients over to Florida for now. Win/win really. The hospital in the US gets extra paying patients and the British patients get a treatment that isn't available here yet.

I would imagine there are US patients being flown over here for stuff we do that you don't. There are certainly a few Americans in at the eye hospital my daughter visits, as it's world renowned.

[forrestcupp]

Anyone who laughs at such misfortune clearly isn't interested in subsidizing the standard of living of others, so the politics were in the thread from the start.

Wow. Your reasoning is kind of bizarre. Politics and universal healthcare weren't anywhere near my thoughts when I posted this thread.

And for the record, I would never laugh at someone's unfortunate position of needing medical care and not being able to attain it. That would be heartless. What I'm shaking my head about is this guy's unbelievably stupid idea to perform hernia surgery on himself with a butter knife and a cigarette. Also, the fact that hernias are not cut out, but they're repaired.

People do stupid things sometimes. How does it help anyone to try to justify those stupid things. If you justify every stupid thing anyone does, then nobody is every going to learn from their mistakes.

[krapp]

Wow. Your reasoning is kind of bizarre. Politics and universal healthcare weren't anywhere near my thoughts when I posted this thread.

It doesn't matter whether your realized it or not. An incredible lack of empathy was obvious when you opened the thread.

The unfortunate individual you laugh at did not mutilate himself because he is stupid. He may be an idiot. But no idiot endeavors to open their abdomen without becoming psychotic first, whether through drugs or a psychotic condition, and no amount of education about hernias or the dullness of butter knives pierces through psychosis.

[forrestcupp]

It doesn't matter whether your realized it or not. An incredible lack of empathy was obvious when you opened the thread.


Empathy : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner

Think what you will, but I don't ever intend to empathize with a guy who tries to cut out a hernia with a butter knife. I'd have a hard enough time sympathizing. I might bring myself to feel sorry for him, though.

But you never answered my question. How does petting people's stupid mistakes help them in the long run?

[krapp]

I did answer your question.

Backing up on the freeway is a stupid mistake.

Cutting your own abdomen open is not.

[forrestcupp]

I did answer your question.

Backing up on the freeway is a stupid mistake.

Cutting your own abdomen open is not.

If you're the guy who did this, then I apologize for going on about this. But you're probably the only one on here who would say that cutting your own abdomen open is not a stupid mistake. ;)

[krapp]

Well, didn't really expect you to get the distinction between acting out of ignorance and acting out of madness. At least I tried.

[Bandit]

Well, didn't really expect you to get the distinction between acting out of ignorance and acting out of madness. At least I tried.

Why so much hate???


I agree with Forest on this, anyone who thinks they can do their on surgery needs to be laughed at. Anyone who thinks they can cut out a HERNIA needs to be laughed out even harder.. Trying to cut out a hernia is like trying to remove your butt hole, your just going to leave a bigger butt hole..

If anything this guys needs a stupidity award given by House (Hugh Laurie) himself..

[forrestcupp]

Stupidity and ignorance are not the same thing. It was a stupid thing to do whether he is insane or not. Maybe you can post a link to an article that diagnoses him as being insane.

But I'd rather argue about universal healthcare than this.

[krapp]

Hate is laughing at someone who nearly killed themselves in the grisliest of manners because they're mentally ill.

[cgroza]

This thread should have been closed a long time ago...

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Hmmm...I'm so glad I'm not participating in THIS discussion...:popcorn:

Krapp: I absolutely disagree with you. The guy is an idiot, and he deserves the laughs. Whether he's mentally ill or not, I leave it to the doctors.

And that's all I'll say in here, at least on this particular topic.
But, please, carry on. This thread is a blast to read.

[wojox]

Wow hernia's must really hurt to do something that extreme. :confused:

[Bandit]

Hate is laughing at someone who nearly killed themselves in the grisliest of manners because they're mentally ill.

Its not Hate. I dont hate the guy. I try not to hate anyone, but to laugh at anyone who trys something like this is called Constructive Criticism..

[Bandit]

Wow hernia's must really hurt to do something that extreme. :confused:

They do, in a weird way. I had an "indirect inguinal hernia" before.
Needless to say all my lower intestines tried to go further south.. I will let you read the rest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_inguinal_hernia).. ;-)

[forrestcupp]

Hate is laughing at someone who nearly killed themselves in the grisliest of manners because they're mentally ill.

All right. I'm going to respond to this, and then I'm done. You can keep talking about it if you want.

I'm not laughing at the guy; I'm laughing at what he did. I sure don't hate him; I don't even know him. I've had people who love me laugh at stupid things I have done. I was embarrassed, but it didn't mean they hated me. It was people who loved me that laughed at stupid things that I did (even painful things) because stupid things are funny.

Most of humor is either sarcasm, which makes fun of people, or slapstick, which makes light of painful events. Since we have been trained to laugh at such things, it's only natural to laugh or at least shake your head at someone who tries to cut out a hernia with a butter knife and cauterize it with a cigarette. The guy could have gotten better help if he would have tried.

Again, if you happen to be the guy who is the subject, then I apologize. I just meant for this to be a lighthearted thread; I sure didn't mean to get into an argument over something that is such small news in the world. Other than that, I'm done with this fruitless discussion, but you can carry on if you want.

[hakermania]

Omfg -_-

[Bandit]

Again, if you happen to be the guy who is the subject, then I apologize.....................

Ya know, I think Krapp was missing for a few days.. :D

Pain meds must be wearing off making him cranky!!

[PCaddicted]

Yuck! Nauseating!:-& You must be mentally ill to do that!