What's wrong with Ubuntu?

[DoFlooterMoose]

Ok. I'm still fairly new to Linux, Ubuntu 10.10 to be specific. I migrated from Windows 7 about 6 months ago, and I love it! I'm not new to the idea of Linux though.

For the last few years I have established quite the Library of Linux distros. Never could figure out my fascination with them... but I couldn't stop downloading them. I have roughly around 60+ at the moment and still find myself downloading them. I have not tried them all (yet) as for some are a bit outdated now... but for the one's that I have, they all have features I like, as well as dislike. I think Ubuntu is a great distro! They all have their problems, every OS does.

Other than here, I really haven't had the opportunity to talk to other Linux users. Which I'm guessing most of you are Ubuntu users too, or at least have used it, and have working knowledge of it. Until recently. A chat site I chat on started a forum area. And I frequent the Computer and Technologies area quite often now. And have had many more interactions with Linux users. Even in real life. Guess its one of those things where you don't notice it until you have one yourself type things.

Anyways... the more Linux users I come across, other than on here, all, for the most part, talk crap on Ubuntu. They call me newb, which I am, but its one of those deals where if I was using say... Arch for example, or Debian, they more than likely wouldn't have said that. or they just trash talk Ubuntu in general. Yet Ubuntu is, as far as I can tell, the most popular distro out there right now.

So does it come down to "what ever is popular, we don't like" situation. Or as far as the Linux Distros go, is there something wrong with Ubuntu in comparison to the others? Cause if there is... I'm sure not seeing it.

your thoughts and ideas are much appreciated.

[jeffathehutt]

So does it come down to "what ever is popular, we don't like" situation.

Yep. Some people feel insecure when they aren't number 1. It's the same reason so many people here hate Windows and Mac OSX.

There is nothing wrong with Ubuntu, at least nothing more than other linux distributions. If you like it keep using it. :)

[trollolo]

most of the hate stems from ubuntu's relationship with debian. that, and the fact that ubuntu is easier to get running than other distros

ignore the neckbeards tho

[DoFlooterMoose]

most of the hate stems from ubuntu's relationship with debian. that, and the fact that ubuntu is easier to get running than other distros

ignore the neckbeards tho

:confused: neckbeards :-s ya lost me on that one.

But as far as the trash they talk, it doesnt curve my oppinion on Ubuntu. The same trash talk is going on between XP and 7 users all the time. 6 in one, half a dozen in the other to me. I have no issues with it. It runs great, and does everything I need it to do. And with less stress than I had with Windows. I'm stickin with Ubuntu at least until the support for 10.10 is up. Then I may try another depending on where they are with Unity. Just not a big fan of it. But I'm sure I'll at least be using some flavour of Ubuntu when that time comes.

[IWantFroyo]

Ubuntu is a distro for everyone. Its easy for beginners to get up and working, and it has features tools that even the most advanced linux users will appreciate.

The "trash-talk" thing is sorta stupid. What happens, is someone installs Arch and gets it half working, and then goes "Oh, I'm so smart! I don't need any more UBUNTU."

A lot of people view not needing Ubuntu as a sign that you're "advanced in Linux."
This is completely untrue.

I use Ubuntu 10.04.3 for my work as a webOS/web developer and student. It was extremely easy to set up and use, but I can still to all the advanced stuff I want.

As for Arch and Debian, I've used Arch, and it isn't really as suited to being a perfectly rock solid machine as Ubuntu LTS (10.04). As for Debian, I used that for a while, and its pretty much Ubuntu with a slightly different software center and without the theme. They might as well cuss at Debian, too.

[sffvba[e0rt]

I think OP has stumbled upon a very big illness in the FOSS world... And I think the Stones summed it up very well in their song:

"And that man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts can be
But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarrettes as me"

Everyone wants Linux to succeed... just not that one...



404

[mikewhatever]

I think OP has stumbled upon a very big illness in the FOSS world... And I think the Stones summed it up very well in their song:

"And that man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts can be
But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarrettes as me"

Everyone wants Linux to succeed... just not that one...



404

Exactly!

[Thewhistlingwind]

I already said this in another thread, but the appeal of arch to many is to make one feel like a l33t Unix hacker, it's no surprise that they'd bash Ubuntu.

[MonolithImmortal]

No, the appeal of Arch is to have a system that is configured the way you want it, and to never have to reinstall every x months. Not to mention the AUR and ABS.
Ubuntu is a great system, as well as Arch, its just their philosophies and goals have little to no overlap. Fans of one are likely to dislike the other because of that reason.

[mikewhatever]

@Thewhistlingwind
@MonolithImmortal

You guys are missing the point. Whatever one's motives, and whatever distro one prefers, going around spewing filth about other distros is never justified. Unfortunately, there are far too many Linux users that do just that.

[Thewhistlingwind]

@Thewhistlingwind
@MonolithImmortal

You guys are missing the point. Whatever one's motives, and whatever distro one prefers, going around spewing filth about other distros is never justified. Unfortunately, there are far too many Linux users that do just that.

(Monolith was attacking me and praising arch, friendly fire much?)

"to many"

There are good reasons to use arch. Rolling release, pacman's cool, etc.

I'm talking about the kind of people that, actually, do just what you said. Spew hate for "X made easy" distros because they're "for noobs".

I criticise such distros for the meta-reason that they're probably fighting they're upstream community. (To a greater degree than say, whatever debian users/devs might think about Ubuntu.)

So I'm a hater spewing hate about haters spewing hate in a community I perceive to be full of haters. (Not this community.)

Irony's fun, isn't it?

[fu9ar]

The problem here is Elitist-seeming-Trolls (and/or Trolls trollin' Trolls trollin' etc etc) because for some reason people on the internet used to like to get emotional about their operating system choices. Especially when everyone was living in a Micro$oft:guitar: world. For the home user there was Windows and Windows was king.

Back In 1995 there was the same conceit about Slackware vs. RedHat... now... really... the best choice for someone would be to run whatever works. I use Ubuntu because it just works. My touchscreen just works, my touchpad just works, with all of the various clicks and swipes already enabled. This isn't the case on more esoteric distros. Sure, when I was running a standard desktop system I ran everything from Arch to eLive, enlightenment is the best WM ;) but for this box Lenovo S10-3t , Ubuntu hits that sweet spot on install.

The more things change...

[akand074]

No, the appeal of Arch is to have a system that is configured the way you want it, and to never have to reinstall every x months. Not to mention the AUR and ABS.
Ubuntu is a great system, as well as Arch, its just their philosophies and goals have little to no overlap. Fans of one are likely to dislike the other because of that reason.

You can configure Ubuntu the way you want it. Just download the Ubuntu minimal installer, which is essentially what Arch is, except they don't give you any other choice. You can use Ubuntu LTS and reinstall every 3 years, which is already overdue for a clean install usually if you aren't using a server. But the rolling release system isn't the same and I can understand the appeal to some people

That said, there is little to no difference between any Linux distro aside from defaults. You can do anything from any other distro on any distro. Ubuntu has a philosophy, Arch has a philosophy, but you can use either with your own philosophy. That's the beauty of Linux. There is no reason to bash any OS. Everybody has an OS that's best for them. (i.e rolling release isn't better than the 6 month cycle, and the 6 month cycle isn't better than a rolling release. Minimal install isn't better than default install, and vice versa... for everything).

[wolfen69]

:confused: neckbeards :-s ya lost me on that one.



From the urban dictionary: "In programming jargon, a neckbeard is someone who enjoys working in lower level languages for the sake of being manly. Neckbeards typically favor Unix, VI, and AD&D."

In other words, old school, die hard linux users who despise the new disros.

[sffvba[e0rt]

Neckbeards!

http://ohinternet.com/Neckbeard


404

[XubuRoxMySox]

Jealousy, I think.

I have a penpal (yes, some kids still actually write to penpals - real letters too, sometimes!) in another country who has traveled widely in my country as well. I asked her about the some of the differences between people in my country and hers, and she made this unusual observation:


In your country if someone is riding around in a Rolls Royce, people say, "Cool, way to go! Someday I'll have a Rolls too if I play my cards right." In my country, people see a Rolls Royce and say, "Damn that sonofagun! Who does he think he is driving around in a Rolls Royce! I'd sure like to take that guy down a peg or two." That's why I love visiting your country!

That sounds to me like the difference between people who appreciate having an awesome free OS with fame, with a busy, active, vital community, and with second-to-none hardware support; and those who wish their distro had an equal or better share of those things.

The "kiddie distro" thing doesn't bother me (and not just because I am a kiddie) either, since Ubuntu doesn't have to be that way. Using the minimal installation disk, you can make Ubuntu as difficult and complicated as you want to. I built my own "Robin's Remix" for the dance studio computer that way. Geeky fun, even for this non-geeky kid.

But use of the term "kiddie distro" in a derogatory way means to me that Ubuntu succeeded in being user-friendly enough for kids. Alot of distros aiming for the same degree of simplicity and quality have acheived it, but have not won the worldwide acclaim that Ubuntu has because of the marketing savvy of Canonical.

But one of the most telling things that are "wrong" with Ubuntu is the popular notion that Canonical is "selfish" because they "don't contribute code like so-and-so does (IBM, Red Hat, Novel, other big megacorporations that have zillions of dollars - as Canonical was in the same corporate class... it's like calling me selfish because I haven't contributed as much to charity as the multi-billionaire has). I have a big ol' honking rant about Canonical's "selfishness" in my blog (linked in my signature "Is Canonical Selfish?").

Jealous people just like to knock whoever is on top.

-Robin

[nothingspecial]

It's all stupid.

Don't worry about it.

You can do the same clever stuff with ubuntu or gentoo or fedora.

It's just a different way of installing and different package managers. After that, it's pretty much the same.

[teejay17]

Linux on the desktop won't 100% succeed until this horse manure business of bickering between distros stops. All it does is confuse new users further.

[trollolo]

Neckbeards!

http://ohinternet.com/Neckbeard


404

>linking to that cancerous site


HNNNNNG

[IWantFroyo]

I'm personally glad Canonical doesn't contribute code. I mean, look at Unity. And that was just a decision. Power to the users (UNIX Democracy :))

[Spice Weasel]

Jealousy? No, they dislike it because it is buggy and unstable. The community also doesn't help because it seems to have the highest proportion of zealots and "Linux Youths" (like Hitler Youths except instead of the Master Race it's the Master OS). I think that the majority of people expressing dislike for Ubuntu just don't like the community.


I'm personally glad Canonical doesn't contribute code. I mean, look at Unity. And that was just a decision. Power to the users (UNIX Democracy :))

Lol.

[MonolithImmortal]

Jealousy? No, they dislike it because it is buggy and unstable. The community also doesn't help because it seems to have the highest proportion of zealots and "Linux Youths" (like Hitler Youths except instead of the Master Race it's the Master OS). I think that the majority of people expressing dislike for Ubuntu just don't like the community.

This.

Which isn't to say that the Ubuntu community isn't tremendously helpful. These forums are some of the best forums on the Internet.

I think a big part of the dislike is because Ubuntu introduces so many patches into the system and not much is vanilla. This is another reason why I like Arch, because they do their best to stick with what upstream releases. This makes bug eliminating much easier.

[XubuRoxMySox]

The community ... seems to have the highest proportion of zealots and "Linux Youths." I think that the majority of people expressing dislike for Ubuntu just don't like the community.

Yet they come here and post in the community's forums! And create whole new forums dedicated to bashing and mocking the community. I've been to Linsux.org (does it still exist?) and read thread after thread where someone refers to something posted here and they all take turns mocking, rebutting, and ridiculing this community - all the while accusing us of being "immature" and "Linux Youth."

Distro hatred is far less mature than youthful enthusiasm for a great Linux distro.

THAT SAID, however, I really do wish Canonical would take a lesson from Debian as far as marketing the distro to new users:

New Debian users are urged on their web site to download the current Stable release, and the more experienced are offered Debian Testing and Debian Unstable. There's no reason that Ubuntu shouldn't do the same with LTS releases for new users and those for whom stability is crucial, and market the in-between releases to the more adventurous and experienced Ubuntu user.

-Robin

[KingYaba]

Anyways... the more Linux users I come across, other than on here, all, for the most part, talk crap on Ubuntu. They call me newb, which I am, but its one of those deals where if I was using say... Arch for example

Just say congrats, you can follow directions on an easy-to-read wikipedia guide. I, on the other hand, got more work done by installing Ubuntu and letting its installer do the work for me. :popcorn:

[el_koraco]

I think a big part of the dislike is because Ubuntu introduces so many patches into the system and not much is vanilla. This is another reason why I like Arch, because they do their best to stick with what upstream releases. This makes bug eliminating much easier.

Yeah, people don't like Ubuntu cuz it's not vanilla. Sure.

[cimh]

There's nowt wrong with Ubuntu. There are differences between distros so its fine for people to prefer one over another but I suggest that some of what is said is purely tribal, especially so when the comments get nasty.

In the UK the best examples of tribal behaviour are seen among football fans. Teams from the same city (eg Celtic & Rangers or Liverpool and Everton) often have major clashes between fans. Perhaps those teams are not the best example because there are deep historical reasons for their dislike of each other (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/5289202.stm) but mostly its one tribe seeking to lord it over another.

I hope the distro wars never get violent

cimh


cimh

[Spice Weasel]

Distro hatred is far less mature than youthful enthusiasm for a great Linux distro.

Youthful enthusiasm? You mean wiping the hard disks of school and shop display computers and installing Linux on them?

[santaslittlehelper]

Take a break.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM
:popcorn:

[teejay17]

THAT SAID, however, I really do wish Canonical would take a lesson from Debian as far as marketing the distro to new users:

New Debian users are urged on their web site to download the current Stable release, and the more experienced are offered Debian Testing and Debian Unstable. There's no reason that Ubuntu shouldn't do the same with LTS releases for new users and those for whom stability is crucial, and market the in-between releases to the more adventurous and experienced Ubuntu user.

-Robin
That is a great point. I wish that Canonical would do that too; it would prevent so many new users having a sub-par experience.

[KiwiNZ]

Yet they come here and post in the community's forums! And create whole new forums dedicated to bashing and mocking the community. I've been to Linsux.org (does it still exist?) and read thread after thread where someone refers to something posted here and they all take turns mocking, rebutting, and ridiculing this community - all the while accusing us of being "immature" and "Linux Youth."

Distro hatred is far less mature than youthful enthusiasm for a great Linux distro.

THAT SAID, however, I really do wish Canonical would take a lesson from Debian as far as marketing the distro to new users:

New Debian users are urged on their web site to download the current Stable release, and the more experienced are offered Debian Testing and Debian Unstable. There's no reason that Ubuntu shouldn't do the same with LTS releases for new users and those for whom stability is crucial, and market the in-between releases to the more adventurous and experienced Ubuntu user.

-Robin

You clearly have enthusiasm for Ubuntu and these Forums. That is cool, however can you and anyone posting here please refrain from dragging other Forum Sites into any debate here.

They are entitled to do what they will on their site and we do not want any inter site Wars.

[MonolithImmortal]

Yeah, people don't like Ubuntu cuz it's not vanilla. Sure.
I'm not talking about the average person, I'm talking about the average arch/gentoo/slackware user, and independent devs.

[XubuRoxMySox]

Youthful enthusiasm? You mean wiping the hard disks of school and shop display computers and installing Linux on them?

???? That's just vandalism. Windows hatred is no better than "distro-hatred."

[hhh]

Hitler Youths
Godwin's Law in only 21 posts! Win!

[DeadSuperHero]

Yet they come here and post in the community's forums! And create whole new forums dedicated to bashing and mocking the community. I've been to Linsux.org (does it still exist?) and read thread after thread where someone refers to something posted here and they all take turns mocking, rebutting, and ridiculing this community - all the while accusing us of being "immature" and "Linux Youth."


Man, you still remember all that? Most of us have moved on to actually productive hobbies.

(such as bashing everyone that has a computer, or doesn't have one.)

I would however like to interject for a moment with some of my own ideas about all this. For sake of the argument, I will say that I use both Ubuntu and Fedora off-and-on. They're both fun for different reasons.

Ubuntu is really the punching bag for the FOSS community for a few valid reasons:

1. People Get Jealous

Ubuntu was sitting pretty at the top of Distrowatch for a long, long time. This kind of made some of the other distro devs jealous. I mean, let's be honest: all of them put a lot of hard work into their projects, and it hurts sometimes to be eclipsed by somebody else.


2. Unity

There were a lot of problems with Unity, not just functional problems either. Happily, the technical side of Unity is getting a lot better in Oneiric.

However, let's look at the criteria for the perfect storm-in-a-teacup:

-Unity was developed as a netbook interface that was expanded into a desktop. A lot of people were pretty happy (if not a little disgruntled) with Gnome2 at the time.
-A lot of arguments and flamewars erupted in the FOSS community between GNOME, KDE, and Ubuntu. Mark Shuttleworth, being the PR man that he is, kind of fanned the flames by pointing the blame on the Gnome project, even though it was a clear misunderstanding of GNOME's own infrastructure. You can't just push libappindicator up into their development tree and expect them to use it, especially when they've been drafting a competing standard for a completely different design and use-case for quite some time.
-Dropping away from Gnome kind of gave this awkward "Fracturing the desktop" mentality.
-When it came out as the main desktop, it was really, really buggy. In fact, I really hated it. It was slow, kludgy, and that "rolodex icon thing" really annoyed me. It was like a bad knock-off of Mac OS in a lot of little ways.

[Legendary_Bibo]

Yet they come here and post in the community's forums! And create whole new forums dedicated to bashing and mocking the community. I've been to Linsux.org (does it still exist?) and read thread after thread where someone refers to something posted here and they all take turns mocking, rebutting, and ridiculing this community - all the while accusing us of being "immature" and "Linux Youth."

We have several mature discussions on that site actually.

[Quadunit404]

We have several mature discussions on that site actually.

I agree. I haven't been a member there for long but it is possible for there to be a mature conversation on Linsux.

[KiwiNZ]

The fine folks at Linsux are just like you and myself, just doing what they like best and engaging with people with similar interests.

They are entitled to their points of view just as folks here are entitled to their points of view. What they do in their own "home" is just fine with me and should be fine with those here.

Now lets get back on topic.

Thank you

[Legendary_Bibo]

I agree. I haven't been a member there for long but it is possible for there to be a mature conversation on Linsux.

Also, I would like to add that we just don't mock the zealots here (in fact it's not a very active thread), but most of the time we're mocking each other, discussing music, movies, mocking each other, tv shows, jobs, mocking each other, life in general, school, and mocking each other among other things (not sure if mentioning the two no no subjects for the UF is still violating the CoC).

[Bandit]

most of the hate stems from ubuntu's relationship with debian. that, and the fact that ubuntu is easier to get running than other distros

ignore the neckbeards tho

I agree. I dont get all the hate. I can and have built linux from scratch before. Sure it makes you think you look cool and its a great experience. But when you finally get over yourself. You'll basically push what ever disc in the drive that gives you the less headache at the end of the day..

[wojox]

There's nothing wrong with running Ubuntu or any OS for that matter. For me it depends on the hardware.

I have an Asus eeepc 900 netbook that I run arch/dwm.

Laptop is fedora 15 with Gnome3/Shell. I prefer mutter to compiz on this machine's specs.

Desktop for Ubuntu/Unity. Compiz and nvidia run great on this box.

[fancy_ninja]

i think op has stumbled upon a very big illness in the foss world... And i think the stones summed it up very well in their song:

"and that man comes on to tell me
how white my shirts can be
but he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
the same cigarrettes as me"

everyone wants linux to succeed... Just not that one...



404

+1

[el_koraco]

Also, I would like to add that we just don't mock the zealots here (in fact it's not a very active thread), but most of the time we're mocking each other, discussing music, movies, mocking each other, tv shows, jobs, mocking each other, life in general, school, and mocking each other among other things (not sure if mentioning the two no no subjects for the UF is still violating the CoC).

I suppose linsux is omgcheesecake. That's what Google showed. Sure enough, I go check it out, and there's you with a gif for an avatar and in the sig. My worst fears are actually coming to life somewhere on the web!

[wolfen69]

We have several mature discussions on that site actually.
I'm sure you do. But.... I'll leave it at that. Any linsux members have to follow rules here just like everyone else. Have fun over there, I won't.

[KiwiNZ]

We do not want inter site rivalry, I have also stated this earlier in this thread to no avail .

Thread closed

[KiwiNZ]

After a time out I have decided to reopen this thread.

I am going to make one last appeal, please stop the intersite rivalry and keep this Thread on topic.
If the thread is closed again it will not reopen.

Thank you and play well.

[zer010]

All hail, KiwiNZ the Merciful! ~_^

I've tried several distros when I found out that Unity didn't play nice with my gfx card. Fedora was pretty good and I intend on giving F15 a go, but in the end, I'm back to *buntu.
Although, I am using Xubuntu and I'm loving it. Use what works for you and be happy with it. It's not like you're stuck with what came on the "disk"....^_^d
(http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=9)