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u-noob-tu
July 24th, 2011, 01:14 PM
the irony is that if this picture is true for a lot of people, then not many people have computer skills but have google searching skills instead. sad...

haqking
July 24th, 2011, 01:18 PM
the irony is that if this picture is true for a lot of people, then not many people have computer skills but have google searching skills instead. sad...


yeah well you wont suffer from too many people with google searching skills in this forum ;-)

ninjaaron
July 24th, 2011, 01:21 PM
I don't think this is sad at all.

It's great. Free information. It's revolutionary and wonderful.

nothingspecial
July 24th, 2011, 01:22 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tech_support_cheat_sheet.png

u-noob-tu
July 24th, 2011, 01:27 PM
I don't think this is sad at all.

It's great. Free information. It's revolutionary and wonderful.

I meant sad because there is no real skill involved.

Senser80
July 24th, 2011, 01:33 PM
There may be no real skill involved, but it is not sad. It is like manual labor. Someone has to do it, and I am glad the people who do do google searching do not have to do physical work.

sectshun8
July 24th, 2011, 01:34 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tech_support_cheat_sheet.png

Couldn't be any more true. At my job I'm the vessel ifnormation security officer. For the most part my job entails making sure that all the vessel PC assets are properly patched and up to date, and then making sure everyones user credentials are good and if any viruses make their way on the pc, to wipe it and install the newest company image.

For some reason, they all think I'm like all knowing and all powerful and can fix any and everything having to do with whatever software they are using. I've put up notices before telling them I'm not tech support and I'm just gonna Google it anyway... which they can do themselves. This chat is going up :P

Copper Bezel
July 24th, 2011, 01:40 PM
Yeah, I think you misunderstand "computer skills," u-noob-tu, if you don't acknowledge that it includes "being able to read the documentation." And not all documentation comes in man pages.

handy
July 24th, 2011, 01:49 PM
the irony is that if this picture is true for a lot of people, then not many people have computer skills but have google searching skills instead. sad...


yeah well you wont suffer from too many people with google searching skills in this forum ;-)

They come here to get free contractors to search for them! #-o[-X

babakott
July 24th, 2011, 01:57 PM
the irony is that if this picture is true for a lot of people, then not many people have computer skills but have google searching skills instead. sad...

“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.” --Albert Einstein

ninjaaron
July 24th, 2011, 02:02 PM
I meant sad because there is no real skill involved.

Computer fixing "skill" all boils down to having information. It's not a matter of talents as with arts or sports that people are born with. Programming takes talent and skill. Anyone who thinks troubleshooting is a skill is deluded. There is no creativity involved. It's grunt work that has to be done, and the more easily available the information is, the better off we all are.

edit: I want to amend this. writing patches and inventing new work-arounds requires skill. Applying them doesn't take much, and using features that are built into a program to do what they are meant to do doesn't take skill.

But I'm in favor of it.

handy
July 24th, 2011, 02:17 PM
Computer fixing "skill" all boils down to having information. It's not a matter of talents as with arts or sports that people are born with. Programming takes talent and skill. Anyone who thinks troubleshooting is a skill is deluded. There is no creativity involved. It's grunt work that has to be done, and the more easily available the information is, the better off we all are.

Having been in the game of fixing computer problems professionally for some time, I think that there are certain mental processes that some people are more naturally inclined to than others.

Some people from a very young age are drawn to pulling things apart & actually putting them back together again.

Troubleshooting is easier for some than others, it is most definitely a skill, that at least for some is a combination of empirical knowledge & the ability to appropriately intuit the quickest way to a solution for the current set of circumstances.

If you find a medical Dr. who is a good diagnostician, stick to him, as they are somewhat of a rarity these days.

As far as a lack of creativity is concerned, I have to say that you don't actually know what you are talking about. (That's not meant as an insult, I'm just speaking from empirical knowledge.) :)

pommie
July 24th, 2011, 02:42 PM
I was once told by a upper management person,
"A successful manager is one who knows just a little of what he needs, but knows all the people who do know what he needs."
Kinda applies here too, why should we know everything we need to, when there is Google :P
How do you think I found this forum.

Cheers David

trollolo
July 24th, 2011, 02:45 PM
the internet as a collective knowledge base is revolutionary, no time before in the history of man have we had such freedom of information.

if you can't understand this, get out

walt.smith1960
July 24th, 2011, 03:02 PM
Having been in the game of fixing computer problems professionally for some time, I think that there are certain mental processes that some people are more naturally inclined to than others.

Some people from a very young age are drawn to pulling things apart & actually putting them back together again.

Troubleshooting is easier for some than others, it is most definitely a skill, that at least for some is a combination of empirical knowledge & the ability to appropriately intuit the quickest way to a solution for the current set of circumstances.

If you find a medical Dr. who is a good diagnostician, stick to him, as they are somewhat of a rarity these days.

As far as a lack of creativity is concerned, I have to say that you don't actually know what you are talking about. (That's not meant as an insult, I'm just speaking from empirical knowledge.) :)

Yup, and it doesn't just apply to computers. For instance some quite accomplished people are baffled by automotive mechanics. Though I think we all believe in PFM (pure freakin' magic) about some subjects.

SoFl W
July 24th, 2011, 03:29 PM
What scares me with searches is people read and trust the first thing they find without verifying if the information is correct or accurate.

Copper Bezel
July 24th, 2011, 03:37 PM
Not doing that is a part of the skill set called "Googling."

handy
July 24th, 2011, 03:49 PM
Yup, and it doesn't just apply to computers. For instance some quite accomplished people are baffled by automotive mechanics. Though I think we all believe in PFM (pure freakin' magic) about some subjects.

Yup, I'm with you 100% there. We all have our strengths & weaknesses, the Leonardo types don't come around too often. Unless of course you are lucky enough to be someone I know & I drive around to your place for a visit.

My car is called Leonardo da Limo. :)

mamamia88
July 24th, 2011, 04:32 PM
I couldn't disagree with you more. Google is a persons best friend when solving mundane computer problems. Not everybody knows how to fix every problem. and the more problems you fix on google the more you learn about computers

jeffathehutt
July 24th, 2011, 04:41 PM
"There are some things man wasn't meant to know. For everything else, there's Google." ;)

DoFlooterMoose
July 24th, 2011, 05:28 PM
I will admit, that is how I learned what I have about computers. I work on them almost everyday, Fixing, upgrading, repair, tweaking, etc.... I by no means am a computer god. But I have learned alot over the years. some trial and error. But thats true with any thing in life. one thing I have learned since I was young, and started attending school is, no one is born with the knowledge (for what ever that pertains to). Some it comes natural, some it takes a little extra effort. But how else are you going to get the information? Yes... you can go to the library. But that's not sensible when the same information is right there infront of you. You could go to school for it. But not everyone can afford it. And yes I understand you need the degree's and experience under your belt to do it professionally.

But what is so wrong with how you learn it? As long as you learn it. To me its no different than coming on here to find out questions I have about Ubuntu. In fact... that's how I found out about Linux, Ubuntu, and this forum. Google.

handy
July 25th, 2011, 01:00 AM
Research is still research no matter the source.

When I was learning IT the public internet didn't exist, later on when it did, searching for anything was a waste of time as all of the search engines sucked so bad (alta vista). Then Google came along & fairly quickly created a whole new internet where searching actually worked. The rest is history.

Now the prime problem we have with Google (imho) is that whether they do currently maintain an ethical use re. the various political/corporate pressures on them that want to put their database to various behind the scenes uses via sophisticated software, or not. "&" that sooner or later the guys that created Google will move on, one way or another. So who gets control of that most powerful database after they are gone? Which is a hugely important question in my mind anyway.

Will the Google guys pull one of their super smart tricks & somehow cripple the database?

Who knows?

Turn on, tune in & check it out, as the ever mysterious episodes unfold in all of our tomorrows...

cgroza
July 25th, 2011, 03:49 AM
Now the prime problem we have with Google (imho) is that whether they do currently maintain an ethical use re. the various political/corporate pressures on them that want to put their database to various behind the scenes uses via sophisticated software, or not. "&" that sooner or later the guys that created Google will move on, one way or another. So who gets control of that most powerful database after they are gone? Which is a hugely important question in my mind anyway.

They are going to sell it for billions of dollars that will allow to them and their next 3-4 generations to live without working a single day.

handy
July 25th, 2011, 04:29 AM
They are going to sell it for billions of dollars that will allow to them and their next 3-4 generations to live without working a single day.

I think that they already have that kind of wealth.

Spike-X
July 25th, 2011, 10:48 AM
Ten years ago I bought my first computer. I didn't know a damn thing about them (otherwise I wouldn't have bought a ridiculously under-specced Packard Bell, but that's another story). Now I can build one, install an operating system, and have it up and running in an hour or two.

Most of what I know about computers didn't just magically appear in my head; it got there as the result of trying to fix problems. Of looking for the information I needed. Of...that's right...Googling!

The people who earn my scorn aren't the ones who don't know much about computers, and who have to go to Google or forums such as this to look for solutions. At least they're making an effort.

The people who earn my scorn are the ones who couldn't even be bothered doing that, and who would rather wait for a month for somebody (i.e. me) to come around and fix it for them.

ddastoor
July 25th, 2011, 11:46 AM
i think this is awesome, not sad....
in this day and age, google just shortens the time for learning the computer skills you would learn the classical way, namely through books and lenghtly clasroom sessions.

yes, i mean u can gain more "skills" by turning your garage into a computer lab and tinker around for months thereby gaining practice with your skills, after all, a skill once learned without practise will die out anyway...

then again, even if u have problem solving abilities, they would be less effective without knowledge (as the adage goes "knowledge is power")

scenario:
problem: ur parents come to u and say, "son, my graphics card is not working on our new ubuntu installation"
existing skill and knowledge so far: u tried all the tools in ur existing skillset and probably suspect that there's no driver for it..


"Productive solution:" -> Your more likely to google "graphics card linux driver download" and install it with it's instructions than to learn from scratch linux internals and device driver stuff ?

Besides, who will tell u the name of the actual linux driver to download anyway if not google :) ?

Rasa1111
July 25th, 2011, 12:10 PM
yeah OP, i think you misinterpreted the image. lol :P

handy
July 25th, 2011, 12:37 PM
...

The people who earn my scorn are the ones who couldn't even be bothered doing that, and who would rather wait for a month for somebody (i.e. me) to come around and fix it for them.

It helps to remember that it is not just black & white, it truly is a grey area.

What some people find learn-able or even naturally easy, others find incredibly difficult (to the point of avoiding it like the plague). We ALL have dimensions of ourselves that fall into these categories when compared to someone else.

You have to be very careful when it comes to expectations based on the if I can do it so can everyone else attitude, because it is so often wrong.

haqking
July 25th, 2011, 02:16 PM
the irony is that if this picture is true for a lot of people, then not many people have computer skills but have google searching skills instead. sad...


Well though you may see it as sad, it is a valuable resource.

Looking at your threads begun by you, most are support related and whose answers could of been achieved through simple google skills.

You came here and asked questions which is basically the same as searchng on google because you didnt have the skill to resolve the issues yourself...so is that sad ?

i dont mean it derogatively to you, but to reflect on your OP, is it sad to be able to answer questions whatever resource you use ? no i dont think so ;-)

Gremlinzzz
July 25th, 2011, 02:37 PM
I look at the computer as a library.If i don,t know something i look it up.
I don,t see ironic truth about that.it,s more like common knowledge.:D
BTW I DON'T USE GOOGLE

markp1989
July 25th, 2011, 02:39 PM
You don't need to know everything, often knowing where to find the information is enough.

mkendall
July 25th, 2011, 03:40 PM
scenario:
problem: ur parents come to u and say, "son, my graphics card is not working on our new ubuntu installation"

Realistic scenario:
problem: your parents come to you and say, "That damn machine isn't working again. What the hell did you do to it?"

ddastoor
July 25th, 2011, 04:26 PM
Realistic scenario:
problem: your parents come to you and say, "That damn machine isn't working again. What the hell did you do to it?"

lol,,, good one.. specially when we tinker with ubuntu right ;) ?

ddastoor
July 25th, 2011, 04:27 PM
You don't need to know everything, often knowing where to find the information is enough.

very true...

dmn_clown
July 25th, 2011, 06:11 PM
Yeah, I think you misunderstand "computer skills," u-noob-tu, if you don't acknowledge that it includes "being able to read the documentation." And not all documentation comes in man pages.

Yes some of it is found on the web. Like the palimpsest documentation (http://library.gnome.org/users/palimpsest/stable/advanced.html.en).


Palimpsest Disk Utility is a complex program, with many advanced features.

tadcan
July 25th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Knowing something about computers in the first place is a good starting place. I know a guy who is not computer literate, he does try and look up a problem. He puts in some search terms, but can get a head ache when trying to find the answer. He then shows me the search pages and I can scan through and dump 90% of it as not being relevant. Thats not from bad search terms, thats just the abundance of information.

That kind of familiarity is VERY useful. Understanding the context in which a computer problem is happening gives a useful frame of reference on how to solve it.