You may not know.......

[wep940]

While I appreciate that most would probably consider this forum the wrong place for this post, I think it points some things out to the younger generations they might not know.

The space shuttle program officially ended just a couple of minutes ago with the landing of Atlantis. This marks not just the end of the space shuttle program, but also any space technology developments and exploration that we have known in the past.

This may seem unimportant, but as someone who grew up in the 50's and 60's, space flight, sattelites, eventual manned orbit and the push to live up to an assinated president's dream led the development of new technologies, smaller electronics and host of things in your day to day life you would never think of.

Without it, there would be no omnipresent things as cell phones, a computer small enough to hold in your hand with more computing power than any astronaut could have dreamed of, GPS and a whole host of other things.

So, you oldesters like me probably feel my sorrow, but I think it's important for the new generations out there, the people who are here and will bring technology and ubuntu into the future, to recognize the end of one era, and the beginning of a new one for them. Dream big - accomplish more.

[overdrank]

Moved to The Community Cafe :)

[Bandit]

I am disgruntle about the whole ending of the program. One of my life long dreams was to work for NASA. Not to mention the reasons you listed above alone are enough to want to keep it around. I only hope that this will force more commercial companies to pick up the ball were the space shuttle program left off. I mean someone is going to have to, how else is anyone going to fix the satellites in orbit. We cant just shoot another one up just over a loose or bad connector connection.


Cheers..

[Sylos]

As a (relatively) young person I can say I also mourn the passing of the shuttle programme. It does feel like 'one giant leap backwards..' although Im sure the reality is less dramatic then I preceive it to be. There are still other areas of the space exploration programme that will be continued adn from that we will no doubt feel the sweet trickle down of new technologies. It does seem somewhat tragic though - like we are children who found a new place to play and then got bored with it.

Hopefully a new programme will arise in the years to come with a more efficient (cost wise at least) system of sending people up into the great black.

[wep940]

Given current economics, and that for the vast forseeable future, I'm just afraid I may not live to see another U.S. manned flight in my lifetime. I find that tragic, and even worse, I feel very old ;)

[Grenage]

I've never understood the attraction or the funding of such ventures, but it's certainly a shame for those who had an interest them.

[androssofer]

I blame the decepticons... ruined it for every1! ***grumbles***

haha. I think it will motivate commercial companies to get into this sorta thing, and if enough of them manage it, it will lead to innovation and bring the cost down. So although its the end of an era, its the beginning of sumthing new! and thats just as exiting.

[Redblade20XX]

In today's society, machines have taken a major role. There is really no reason to have human beings in space when technology, in essence, has a lower liability and cost. Still, it's sad just because of the experience those people who were lucky to had gone into space had.

[SoFl W]

I will agree with Redblade20XX. I grew up excited about the moon landings, I remember drawing three stage rockets on paper, any available cardboard box became a command module or lunar lander. (Complete with magic marker drawings for all the panels on he inside) As a child I was able to see Apollo 15 take off. In my adult life I had moved to Florida and when I could watch the shuttles take off from my work parking lot or the front lawn of my home I would. I was always excited and amazed, I still am amazed.

However it is unbelievably expensive. As much as I find it fantastic, I think the money could be better spent elsewhere. Perhaps private enterprise and competition will find a better, lower cost method of providing manned space flight.

While the end of the United States manned flights brings a tear to my eye, I think it is the right thing to do at this time.

[jhonan]

Without it, there would be no omnipresent things as cell phones, a computer small enough to hold in your hand with more computing power than any astronaut could have dreamed of, GPS and a whole host of other things.

Agreed, the space programme made a massive contribution to science, but a ton of advances in technology came via the military.

So as long as we keep having wars, we'll be okay.

[SoFl W]

Agreed, the space programme made a massive contribution to science, but a ton of advances in technology came via the military.
So as long as we keep having wars, we'll be okay.

What about Tang man?!??! Make Tang not war! :P

[Brad55]

Agreed, the space programme made a massive contribution to science, but a ton of advances in technology came via the military.

So as long as we keep having wars, we'll be okay.

Well about every 10 to 20 years there is a major war that brings a boost to technology but there is a lot of lost of life with that.


I've never understood the attraction or the funding of such ventures, but it's certainly a shame for those who had an interest them.

With out these ventures there would not be a lot of things in our world now days from technology to medicine. Space has a different effect on things.

This is a very sad time in our lives.

Next thing you will see is China controlling space.

[babakott]

Agreed, the space programme made a massive contribution to science, but a ton of advances in technology came via the military.

So as long as we keep having wars, we'll be okay.

Unfortunately, I believe war is a constant in our world.

I too grew up a NASA junkie. I haven't missed a launch since I was a kid in the early 70's. However, as someone pointed out, the manned missions are just so expensive, and with our economy in shambles, I don't think we can absorb the cost at the moment.

For NASA to launch the Space Shuttle Endeavor it costs 1.7 Billion Dollars
Spacex (http://www.spacex.com) figures estimate a manned launch will cost 133 Million Dollars (that includes inflation).

Of course the Spacex cost is estimated. However, if it is possible to launch at that cost, there could be more launches due to the decreased cost.

Either way, I feel sad that NASA isn't able to keep up manned flight.

[rg4w]

This marks not just the end of the space shuttle program, but also any space technology developments and exploration that we have known in the past.
Well, yes and no.

Like you, I grew up in the Space Age and feel it was an important contribution to my optimism, the feeling that all problems are solvable.

And I also feel there's a role for human exploration of space down the road.

But on the flipside I've long been a "Terraform Earth" sorta guy, looking for a balance in ROI between exploration and application.

What ended this morning was just the Shuttle program, like the Apollo, Gemini, and Mercury programs before it. The ISS remains in orbit, with cooperative plans for its maintenance. People will continue going into space for a long time, just not on the 20+year-old Shuttle.

For exploration, the focus right now seems to be on robotics, which provide a much higher ROI.

I have the good fortune of living near JPL, where some of my neighbors work. If you live in the area, the annual open house there is not to be missed - so cool to see these things up close.

The take I get from talking with JPL folks is that NASA isn't going away, just being required to focus on high-ROI projects for a while as we recover from the worst economic disaster in our lifetime.

Those projects which can demonstrate more near-term benefits are being funded very solidly, and they still require much technological innovation.

So NASA's contribution to basic science is still there, and the opportunity for both practical results and cultural inspiration remain.

The Shuttle's gone, but in due time its replacement will come online. And in the meantime, all the Maker fans still have much to rejoice in with the ever greater range of robotics and telemetry projects at NASA.

[JDShu]

While I appreciate that most would probably consider this forum the wrong place for this post, I think it points some things out to the younger generations they might not know.


Think every kid grows up with an interest in space and dinosaurs regardless of generation :P

[Grenage]

With out these ventures there would not be a lot of things in our world now days from technology to medicine. Space has a different effect on things.

True, but there is no way to say that such things wouldn't have come through other means. I have no knowledge of any discovery examples (some might say, in general), but it would have to be substantial to merit the money spent. Still this is not a debate about the worth of the program, and I don't want to drag it down that path.


Next thing you will see is China controlling space.

Most likely, they are effectively on a path to become the most powerful country on the planet; in my opinion they have been for some time. Still, it shouldn't really matter who is up there, should it? I also can't imagine China heading up for much more than bragging rights - satellites are the most important things up there (again, in my opinion).

[mips]

Dude I'm not even over the SR-71 Blackbird or the Corcorde yet and now you lump this on me :(

[ninjaaron]

I knew and I didn't care.

I like the idea of space exploration, but it's irrelevant to my life. In any event, Virgin is always out there if anyone really feels the need to leave orbit, and that way, it's not on the government's dime.

Anyway, it's all up to consumerism, war and disease to keep technology moving forward now. I have complete faith in the power of these forces to bring us cooler phones, so no worries, We'll have hologram displays soon enough.

[LowSky]

Until there is a reason to go into space we will stay Earth bound. Much like Europeans had little reason to go to the Americas until they found gold and other resources.

[Paqman]

This marks not just the end of the space shuttle program, but also any space technology developments and exploration that we have known in the past.


How so? Space exploration will continue, including manned space flight, and even though NASA will have a brief period during which they don't have a human-rated launch vehicle there are plenty of other options. NASA will have it's owned manned vehicle again in a few years. That includes ones capable of doing things the Shuttles can't like long-duration missions beyond LEO.

This is an interesting time for space exploration, we're sending loads of missions out into the solar system, and there are some really interesting looking manned projects in Earth orbit lined up.

[aktiwers]

I knew and I didn't care.

I like the idea of space exploration, but it's irrelevant to my life. In any event, Virgin is always out there if anyone really feels the need to leave orbit, and that way, it's not on the government's dime.

Anyway, it's all up to consumerism, war and disease to keep technology moving forward now. I have complete faith in the power of these forces to bring us cooler phones, so no worries, We'll have hologram displays soon enough.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldk115hiAz1qe0p2c.jpg

[ninjaaron]

While I am being intentionally provocative, the post represents my actual feelings.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6015/funnypicturestrollcarha.jpg

[anewguy]

Gee, didn't anyone else build a mock-up of an Apollo capsule and stay in it as a kid for the duration of a real flight? 1 of my friends and I saw an article in a magazine about it and tried it outselves. Apollo lifted off, we lifted off. They did a course correction, we did a course correction, etc.. Made for an interesting and yet boring number of days - out Mission Control was Mom with lunch or supper or a snack. We did have to take bathroom breaks, showers, etc., outside of our "capsule" though.

Dave ;)

[alphacrucis2]

The problem is that the space shuttle is insanely expensive in terms of $/kg into orbit. It's only real advantage has been its heavy lift/cargo bay capability. The aging Soyuz system is still a heck of a lot cheaper for getting an astronaut to the ISS. In fairly short order private enterprise comapnies such as SpaceX (http://www.spacex.com/) will have the ability to get astronauts into LEO at lower cost even than Soyuz.

[forrestcupp]

The take I get from talking with JPL folks is that NASA isn't going away, just being required to focus on high-ROI projects for a while as we recover from the worst economic disaster in our lifetime.

This is what people don't understand. NASA isn't disappearing; the Space Shuttle program is. NASA is still going to be there doing research. They will just be hitching rides with commercial efforts and other countries for a while.

[rg4w]

Gee, didn't anyone else build a mock-up of an Apollo capsule and stay in it as a kid for the duration of a real flight? 1 of my friends and I saw an article in a magazine about it and tried it outselves. Apollo lifted off, we lifted off. They did a course correction, we did a course correction, etc.. Made for an interesting and yet boring number of days - out Mission Control was Mom with lunch or supper or a snack. We did have to take bathroom breaks, showers, etc., outside of our "capsule" though.

Dave ;)
Dude, that rocks. I had a great childhood, but you just gave me a moment of envy. :)

[drawkcab]

One of my earliest memories is my dad explaining the Apollo program under the full moon while showing me a post card of the saturn rocket. I was maybe 3 years old at the time but I spent most of my childhood obsessed with space.

[3rdalbum]

Whatever happens, the Western world should not concede control of space to China. If this happens, the Chinese take out GPS and invade Taiwan before the US Navy even fires a shot.

I realise the Shuttle isn't a defensive weapon, but it does help the US repair and maintain its spy satellites in working order.

[forrestcupp]

Whatever happens, the Western world should not concede control of space to China. If this happens, the Chinese take out GPS and invade Taiwan before the US Navy even fires a shot.

I realise the Shuttle isn't a defensive weapon, but it does help the US repair and maintain its spy satellites in working order.
Wow. Now that's something I haven't thought of.

[Dustin2128]

Fear of china aside, I think this is a good thing. The shuttle was only kept flying for political reasons- it's a terrible, terrible way to get to space. I have little hope for the future of NASA, but I do hold hope that space tourism will cheapen space travel to the point where well off but not rich people will be able to go in 40-50 years. Assuming a vacuity of major change in the intervening years, of course. A

If NASA doesn't totally die off, though, my hope is that in 5 to 10 years, we'll have a nice, cheap, expendable heavy launcher going.

[krapp]

I think everyone seems to forget NASA was founded for political reasons. Well it's 2011 and Al Qaeda doesn't have rocket ships.

[akand074]

I imagine NASA will be back in space again come time. I'm a little disappointed it's stopped. Though I've never really heard of any major breakthroughs or benefits from it. But I think the technology needs to continue being developed. It'll play quite a large role in the future I'd imagine(/hope).

[halibaitor]

Not
About
Space
Anymore

I feel so sad, and let down...:(

[krapp]

Not
About
Space
Anymore

I feel so sad, and let down...:(

Never

About

Space

Agreed?

[Gawains Green Knight]

Its too costly to send man into space - and not just financially (check out http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/default.htm). The future for people in space is with Richard Branson, the future for science is with machines....

[Khakilang]

Not
Another
Spaceship
Again!

[mips]

The shuttle was only kept flying for political reasons- it's a terrible, terrible way to get to space.

The shuttle was oversold & under delivered by big margins.

The launch/payload cost they punted back in the day was ridiculous and then they also mentioned something like weekly launches at the 'cheap' rates.

[ninjaaron]

Whatever happens, the Western world should not concede control of space to China. If this happens, the Chinese take out GPS and invade Taiwan before the US Navy even fires a shot.

I realise the Shuttle isn't a defensive weapon, but it does help the US repair and maintain its spy satellites in working order.

In this case, it is very good that the space program hasn't actually been terminated. Very likely, remotely controlled drones will get the job done until they find a smarter way to get people into space.

But you're right. We can't have China activating it's network of moon lazers.

[Copper Bezel]

I'm more upset about the James Webb Space Telescope being cut than the shuttles meeting their natural end of service. I don't see any problem with private industry supplying the launch vehicles so long as NASA continues to have the funding to pay for their services. I do have a problem with this perception that efforts to better understand the universe have to justify themselves on the basis of their likelihood to improve the delivery of reality TV shows to our telephones.

Seriously. There are a lot of stupid things we throw $70 per anum at (NASA's current budget per capita) in the US. We spend more than this on Coca-Cola brand soft drinks.

And I'm 26. = P

[SoFl W]

Penn & Teller have a show in the United States called Bull$#!+, they take on various topics, one of those topics was NASA.

* * WARNING * * A show called Bull$#!+ contains language that may not be suitable for some people. It has also been know to have neekid people in it. So if you are easily offended, at a work place that frowns upon that sort of thing, if you don't want your kids to see/hear adult material, or if your spouse/significant other is a little uptight, don't watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-lpslBef1c
(I didn't verify this link any more than watch the first minute or two)

[DLM955]

When I heard it was ending I thought of all the times we were all glued to the TV watching and waiting ....
And yes when I lived in South Florida I watched the sky just hoping to see it..One day on the sidewalk someone said whats that and everyone stopped to stare into the sky, nothing was more important at that moment...
Watching the first Moon landing with my grandmother,she thought it was just a movie and being only ten years old trying to explain it.....
Those were days when everyone wanted a challenge to overcome...

[anewguy]

One of my earliest memories is my dad explaining the Apollo program under the full moon while showing me a post card of the saturn rocket. I was maybe 3 years old at the time but I spent most of my childhood obsessed with space.
Dude, you are making me feel extremely old! ;) ;) ;)

[SoFl W]

I am glad to hear there are other people here about my age. There was that poll a while back and I think it went from "40-and up"

[anewguy]

I am glad to hear there are other people here about my age. There was that poll a while back and I think it went from "40-and up"
Yep! And I knew I was getting old when to find me year of birth it was closer to the beginning of those scrolling columns than scrolling back from the end! ;)

[SoFl W]

Watching the first Moon landing with my grandmother,she thought it was just a movie and being only ten years old trying to explain it.....

Think about people like your grandmother and why they are called the greatest generation. That generation went from horse and buggy to the moon.

[anewguy]

I'll tell you what my biggest fear is in this regard:

Given the terrible economics of the U.S. now and into the mid-term future, what with the huge deficits to overcome, social security reaching a breaking point, etc., that we just won't be able to fund those projects that we intend to do. They're talking 10-15 years out for the next manned flight from non-commercial arena, but I think the economics will force that way back. I also think that with things being moved to commercial enterprises NASA will eventually disappear just due to how small it will get just being at best a manager of outside projects.

I've enjoyed watching little robots running around on Mars just as much as the next guy, but just to me it comes back to it's not a person. I think it is the human in space element that gets the most attention. However, space flight has also become routine now, not the big fascination it was to watch the first manned flights from the USSR and then the U.S., up to actually having a man land on the moon. Part of this is the advances in technology that such development led to. It has become second nature now. Remember back then we hadn't been into television that long, and color TV - boy was that a treat when it came out and became cost effective for the masses! So to see something go from our planet to the moon was something we marveled at. With cell phones, GPS, desktop, laptop, netbook and tablet PC's people aren't as niave to technology, so these things just seem second nature.

And in that lies the problem. Back in the late 50's and into the 60's, this was all so beyond the "common man's" understanding. Those of you out there who like me go back to the days of extremely limited memory on computers and hand assembling code and interfacing to some sort of real-time device at the same time understand what I'm saying - those "computers" used in space flight, including the early shuttle missions, where nothing compared to what sits in your lap or your extended function cell phone now. It was beyond most people's comprehension how these things worked. Everything is common place now, so the novelty is gone. The fascination has been replaced by common place, and this leads to people just not caring anymore.

I understand the bad economics of the shuttles, heck - they were way outdated before the first one ever flew, some of this again related to the technologies available at the time of planning these systems. I also know that every space flight, no matter what the platform was and continues to be nothing more then men sitting atop a (hopefully) controlled bomb just waiting to go off - it was always very dangerous.

I guess this probably doesn't make much sense, but there are so many pictures, so many thoughts, so many dreams, so much fascination for most of us from my generation because we were there when it was all new and exciting - now it's just commonplace and people pay no real attention to it.

[halibaitor]

Never

About

Space

Agreed?

Sorry, can't agree with that one. NASA used to be about space. Just look at the Apollo project. Man's first moon landing was really exciting for me.

I graduated from High School in 1962. When the yearbook staff asked me what my dream was for the future, I told them I wanted to go to the moon. You wouldn't believe the grief I got from that. :P
"Not in your lifetime, or mine."
"Are you crazy?"
"It will never happen."

Seven short years later, I got the last laugh. Man was on the moon!!! And the computer that was on the command capsule was about as powerful as a nicely equipped VIC 20. :lolflag: (Anybody remember them?)

This whole "It costs too much." stuff is really hard for me to accept. But then, I'm an old fogy now...

[anewguy]

Love it! VIC 20? Come on, you've got to go back further than that or you are going to make me feel REALLY old ;) ;)

Yes, the excitement was there, the big dreams where there. A lot of us grew up thinking "wow, if I could just do that someday". The shuttle did change a lot of that - just look at the number of Americans in space prior to the space shuttle, then look at the number in space just with the space shuttle - it made things so commonplace that the dreams are gone in most people. Economics aside, I don't think people really dream big like that anymore. A big dream now is how soon can I get a big enough raise to afford that BMW. No big dreams for our country, to challenge everyone to think big - not BMW big - so much bigger that most of the younger generations don't have a reference point to understand - not their fault - it's just the way things have gone.

I guess another thing is missing today is understanding that big dreams, big goals, have been what has driven our economy to produce more, to employ more, to have more tax revenue (sorry, but I had to throw that in!).

Remember - dream big, accomplish more.

[krapp]

I graduated from High School in 1962.

So you probably remember the so-called Sputnik Crisis.

[krapp]

Think about people like your grandmother and why they are called the greatest generation. That generation went from horse and buggy to the moon.

Right, because it was all about having the right attitude and work ethic rather than the right confluence of economic and technological trends. :roll:

[anewguy]

My grandmother died a few years ago in her mid 90's. I often thought of the amazing things she had seen during her lifetime. My g-grandparents came from Denmark in th 1880's, and up into the 1970's before they died I also thought of what they had seen. From horses to steam tractors to automobiles to electrification of the farm to air conditioning, telephones, televisions, and of course the wars and then the space race. This fascination is what I mean when I say the drive just isn't there anymore - things are too commonplace now and people seem to just expect things, rather than dream and be amazed at what comes along.

[Copper Bezel]

I've seen that theory raised before, that we're experiencing the aftermath of the burst of the optimism bubble. I'm skeptical of such simple explanations, but I can't deny that the rest of my generation is, too. = )

More seriously, I can't take anyone seriously who uses the phrase "greatest generation" (not to say that anyone in this thread has properly taken ownership of it in that way.) I will go ahead and point out that although the progress from horses and buggies to the moon all happened within one lifetime, it was two generations (I.e., Henry Ford was dead when Armstrong went up.) Quantum field theory and the information revolution aren't too shabby for the next round of folks, either.

I do think that since the second world war, people have in general become increasingly resistant to propaganda, and while that's a good thing, it makes much more difficult the proposition of shared national goals. Humans in space aren't going to get us anything we couldn't get otherwise, and American robots aren't going to get anything that Japanese ones won't, but I really do wish that the US was willing to do its part to keep exploring and keep science exciting, in whatever form that takes.

And please tell me I'm not the only person in this thread pissed about the James Webb. = P

[Paqman]

NASA used to be about space.

It still is. The Shuttle was a bus for getting back and forth into LEO. While that's technically "space" most of what goes on in LEO is about the Earth. The really interesting stuff is going on further out into the solar system, and that's where NASA should be focussing. Getting rid of the Shuttle frees up huge amounts of resources for NASA to do that.

The Shuttle only ever came about because the military were keen on it. Their interest was Earth-focussed reconnaissance and communications satellites. It was a system that was poorly optimised for support of science or deep-space exploration missions. It had a become a big expensive millstone around NASA's neck that prevented it from doing the missions that would actually push back the frontiers in space.

[Copper Bezel]

Getting rid of the Shuttle frees up huge amounts of resources for NASA to do that.

Would have done, if not for the fact that NASA is simultaneously being defunded, with the end of the shuttle program as a rather incoherently applied justification. I agree that the simple business of trucking things into space needs to fall on private industry, but the reality is that NASA is becoming a victim to political BS, so the fact that it's freed from its busing duties is small consolation.

[halibaitor]

So you probably remember the so-called Sputnik Crisis.

Yes, I do. :-D

But it didn't seem much like a crisis at the time. All Sputnik did was go "beep..beep..beep", there was no science involved. The fact that the Russians put something (anything) into orbit before the U.S. did, really shook up a lot of people. Likewise the same people were shook up again when the Russians were first to put a man in orbit.

In hindsight, it appears that the Russians were not as advanced as we had feared at the time. They were just more willing than us to take the wild risks involved. We were much more cautious. The Russians never did get any people out of Earth orbit, or to the moon. Their science just wasn't up to the task. (I'm sure they could do it now, if they were willing to spend the kind of money involved in that type of mission.)

One of my grandmothers lived to see the Apollo 11 moon landing. She was a little girl when Orville and Wilbur made their first flight. Until the day she died, she refused to believe that we had landed on the moon. #-o She was convinced that it was a Hollywood trick. I wonder what she would think about the computers and cell phones we have now.

[halibaitor]

And please tell me I'm not the only person in this thread pissed about the James Webb.

I'm assuming that you are referring to the new space telescope, but what's happening that has you pissed off. I think I must have missed something. :confused:

[anewguy]

I don't see it as a burst of the optimism balloon, instead I just see it as things have become too common place, and instead of dreaming there is now just expectation. To me, at least, there is a big difference between the type of dreaming I'm talking about and expectation.

But.....then again, I hope everyone following and posting on the thread knows I meant it for general comments but hopefully nothing negative towards a person, etc.. I really do see it as the end of most of the things that people in my generation regarded as amazing and wonderful - that's all!

Dave ;)

[krapp]

I don't see it as a burst of the optimism balloon, instead I just see it as things have become too common place, and instead of dreaming there is now just expectation. To me, at least, there is a big difference between the type of dreaming I'm talking about and expectation.

But.....then again, I hope everyone following and posting on the thread knows I meant it for general comments but hopefully nothing negative towards a person, etc.. I really do see it as the end of most of the things that people in my generation regarded as amazing and wonderful - that's all!

Dave ;)

We are well on our way to a cyborg existence. First vaccines, soon embedded devices. The domination of nature is no longer awe inspiring, nor should it be, and I can't see why this should be lamented.

But there are plenty of other things to dream about, things that have always been more worthwhile. Peace and equality for instance, which seem to be way off. Unfortunately they can only be dreamed of for now.

[juancarlospaco]

The problem is visible on this thread, the world is not US-only,
new programme will arise in the years to come, it will not be US,
lets start thinking like Human kind, despite flags... ʘ‿ʘ

[Thewhistlingwind]

Love it! VIC 20? Come on, you've got to go back further than that or you are going to make me feel REALLY old ;) ;)

Yes, the excitement was there, the big dreams where there. A lot of us grew up thinking "wow, if I could just do that someday". The shuttle did change a lot of that - just look at the number of Americans in space prior to the space shuttle, then look at the number in space just with the space shuttle - it made things so commonplace that the dreams are gone in most people. Economics aside, I don't think people really dream big like that anymore. A big dream now is how soon can I get a big enough raise to afford that BMW. No big dreams for our country, to challenge everyone to think big - not BMW big - so much bigger that most of the younger generations don't have a reference point to understand - not their fault - it's just the way things have gone.

Remember - dream big, accomplish more.

Us "youngins" are so lifeless aren't we?
:wink:

I think the real problem is that too many Americans believe that the United states fitness to be competitive is a constant variable.

[ninjaaron]

new programme will arise in the years to come, it will not be US.

Bet you $100 it will be US.

[krapp]

Bet you $100 it will be US.

How so? Do you have some inside information about American hedge funds and petroleum companies?

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I was working at NASA when the first shuttle was launched. It was exciting and innovative. However, running a shuttle bus to low-earth-orbit for 30 years is boring. NASA should have sold the technology to some private venture 20 years ago and moved on to more exciting and innovative endeavors. I left my job working at NASA a few months after the first shuttle launched. NASA has done other projects to explore space over that 30 year period; however, by spending money on the shuttle program, that limited what they could spend on the other projects.

[juancarlospaco]

The problem is visible on this thread, the world is not US-only


Bet you $100 it will be US.

Thank you for pointing that iam correct...

[trollolo]

lol @ 50 year olds gettting butthurt about this money-hole getting axed. it's a huge waste of money, and we could be spending the money on better things, like FEEDING POOR PEOPLE.

But all humor aside, why worry about making it to mars if we can't even pay our own debt?

[Thewhistlingwind]

But all humor aside, why worry about making it to mars if we can't even pay our own debt?

This.

[Copper Bezel]

This.
Are you referring to this political crisis at the moment? It doesn't reflect on US economy or anything like that, just the political climate.


I'm assuming that you are referring to the new space telescope, but what's happening that has you pissed off. I think I must have missed something.
It's the basket NASA's been putting all its eggs in, and it's very likely to be cancelled.

And as for why the US and not someone else, I'd like to see the world's biggest economy continue to play a part, and I don't think the ESA is going to suddenly receive the kind of funding to pick up where the US left off.

[anewguy]

Hey, I didn't mean to insult any other countries or anything - far from that! I just think that big dreams, be they space or anything else, just really don't exist in the U.S. anymore. It's turned into me, me, me. So when the government did things with budgets the effect was that NASA became almost exclusively a shuttle management group. I know other things went on, like all the robotic trips, Hubble imaging and time management, etc.. Because of the funding, and the effect it had, development of replacement technologies have gone to the back burner.

And yes, I fully understand the economics of "my" country - and I feel that the push that was made in the 60's for manned flight, especially to the moon, spurred so much other development. That meant many subcontractors to NASA, but also completely non-NASA related projects. It was a time of dreams, and with those dreams came more jobs, more growth. That's all.

And...as a product of the 60's and very early 70's, I have some pretty strong opinions of the crazy things people of the world do to each other. Some from a difference in belief of what a government should be, others for thousands of years based on religious belief. Some how everyone seems to have missed the key word "belief", not "fact". I have disagreed for many, many years of "my" countries policy of attempting to change other places to look like "us" politically, etc.. I'm all for freedom for all people, but it is so totally unrealistic, and to me just wrong, to be somewhere that has a cultural history going back thousands of years (instead to the 240 or so "we" have) and try to force "our" way on them. Freedoms yes.

At any rate, this at times has kind of grown off topic. I was really just trying to talk about what the development of manned space flight has done for the U.S. (and I'm sure it's meant just as much to other countries on the same path) and how it seems "our' culture has changed to where exploration - the quest for knowledge - has been forgotten, and big national dreams don't exist anymore.

Really, I meant no disrespect to anyone or any nation. Since I've been a U.S. citizen all my life it may have sounded like more was intended than what really was. Perhaps substituting "mankind" for "U.S." would help?

[Dustin2128]

Oncoming thread closure aside, why can't we feed poor people and go to space at the same time? The budget for space travel is close to a rounding error, but we've got hundreds of billions of dollars being thrown towards blowing things up. You want to feed the poor? Good for you, but space travel is not the place to be making cuts, they're running on a lean enough budget as is.

[Paqman]

I feel that the push that was made in the 60's for manned flight, especially to the moon, spurred so much other development.

The push back then was on manned flight because they had fewer choices. Originally even dull jobs like Earth observation were envisaged as being done by humans. Those programmes were obviously canned as soon as it became obvious that automated satellites would do the job much better and cheaper than humans. Likewise our technology has got to the point where most of the exploration can be done much better and cheaper by machines. The reason we've not sent anybody beyond Earth orbit for 40 years is mostly because we don't have to. By focussing on robotic exploration we get a lot more done. As machines get smarter and more autonomous that's only going to continue in the future.

Manned spaceflight is (IMO) largely a dead end. Although for now it still has plenty of proponents in space agencies around the world, so will continue to receive some funding, if only for flag-waving projects.

[Elfy]

Closed at OP request.