UFOs over BBC1 building in London. (Thoughts)

[Bandit]

This video is of recent recorded UFOs over BBC 1 building in London:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDIF-ZwJbF0

There are many other videos on the same event posted on the web so likely hood of video being faked is rare. And if they are not alien in nature, then what were these unidentified flying objects?
Any thoughts or comments?



Cheers..

[drawkcab]

Rest assured that Jack Harkness is taking care of this.

[Rasa1111]

that's like.. soo two weeks ago Bandit.
old news. lol :P

Could be aliens, Could be humans in classified craft, (we do have them)
could be an 'elaborate' hoax by a small group of people.. Who knows?
We'll never know looking at videos online. No matter how good they seem.
But everyone will know eventually, when they see one (or more) for themselves.

Ive already learned my truths ..
so it doesn't matter much.

Speculate, debunk, accept, be skeptic, whatever! lol :P

Im still the tinfoil hat king..
you aint takin my crown, alien boy... :lolflag:

there are far better vids. / footage than that though.

[Timmer1240]

In all the vastness and expanse of the Universe its so big no human mind can Imagine or comprehend there is one little speck of dust no not dust one atom called earth where life can exist come on lets be real!Are we so Arrogant that we think we are all that is or can exist in this immeasurable Huge vast limitless Universe where billions upon billions of galaxy's containing millions of stars with uncountable amounts of planets yet we are the only ones?

[Rasa1111]

In all the vastness and expanse of the Universe its so big no human mind can Imagine or comprehend there is one little speck of dust no not dust one atom called earth where life can exist come on lets be real!Are we so Arrogant that we think we are all that is or can exist in this immeasurable Huge vast limitless Universe where billions upon billions of galaxy's containing millions of stars with uncountable amounts of planets yet we are the only ones?

Yes,
Sadly, many are 'so arrogant'.
Which, when you break it down, simply comes down to ignorance.
Not their faults though.

Cool post Timmer. :KS

[Copper Bezel]

Skepticism isn't an expression of arrogance. Dogmatically claiming that aliens do or don't visit Earth in little round aircraft is.

Edit: And since those craft are themselves by all appearances based in fiction, it all gets a little silly. This particular instance seems to be buzz marketing for a UK VFX studio.

[Erik1984]

In all the vastness and expanse of the Universe its so big no human mind can Imagine or comprehend there is one little speck of dust no not dust one atom called earth where life can exist come on lets be real!Are we so Arrogant that we think we are all that is or can exist in this immeasurable Huge vast limitless Universe where billions upon billions of galaxy's containing millions of stars with uncountable amounts of planets yet we are the only ones?

You would say we're not, but where are 'they?' of course maybe they simply live too far away for any form of transport (even lightspeed travel), do not want to make contact... countless possibilities. I only want to say that if intelligent life is out there it could still very well be we don't see it now and never will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

[keithpeter]

They've had their mobile phones hacked and are trying to find out who did it :twisted:

Alas, everyone, I'm with Enrico Fermi on this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

[Rasa1111]

The words of those who have spent their lives 'protecting' yours/our safety..
They "crazy" and "silly" as well? :P


Major UFO Press Conference In Washington, DC, on CNN.
September 27th, 2010~ Ex-military men say "unknown intruders" have monitored and even tampered with American nuclear missiles.

Witness testimony from more than 120 former or retired military personnel points to an ongoing and alarming intervention by unidentified aerial objects at nuclear weapons sites, as recently as 2003.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtmpaM0PqyI


Dwynne Arneson, USAF Lt.Col. Ret., communications center officer-in-charge

Bruce Fenstermacher, former USAF nuclear missile launch officer

Charles Halt, USAF Col. Ret., former deputy base commander

Robert Hastings, researcher and author

Robert Jamison, former USAF nuclear missile targeting officer

Patrick McDonough, former USAF nuclear missile site geodetic surveyor

Jerome Nelson, former USAF nuclear missile launch officer

Robert Salas, former USAF nuclear missile launch officerLunatics! :rolleyes:

I wonder..
Is it not 'arrogant' to tell people what they have seen/experienced for themselves (ie, What they know)
"is silly" "cant be real" or "is not possible" or "doesnt exist"? ?
Not arrogant to call them "silly" or "crazy", simply because you couldn't fathom it happening to you? hmm...

[handy]

That's proof that at least they have reasonable taste as far as our broadcast media goes...

[pommie]

In all the vastness and expanse of the Universe its so big no human mind can Imagine or comprehend there is one little speck of dust no not dust one atom called earth where life can exist come on lets be real!Are we so Arrogant that we think we are all that is or can exist in this immeasurable Huge vast limitless Universe where billions upon billions of galaxy's containing millions of stars with uncountable amounts of planets yet we are the only ones?

Yup, space is endless, no beginning and no end, but so is time, there could be millions of billions of alien races out there, but they are spread through out time, and infinity is a long time, so are we alone at this precise moment of time, probably not, but the odds stated for alien life are misleading due to the unaccounted for time factor, which is rarely included in nearly all estimates, and any estimate that does not include all known facts is worse than useless.

Before anyone jumps in about the big bang being the start of space, time and matter, what caused the big bang?? , it is worrying when the people who supposedly know enough to state that the big bang started everything are now looking into what was before the big bang, how can you state that the big bang started everything and then state you are trying to find out what was there before to cause it ??:lolflag:

What I find arrogant is that the human race has been studying the physics of space for what, 100 years, yet they claim to know, beyond all doubt, what happened over 40 billion years ago, and can prove it.
It was not long ago that this very same type of people claimed that the speed of sound could not be broken, that the Earth was the center of the universe (they even proved this one with mathematics), the Earth was flat etc etc, the scientists will admit to all these failings of their predecessors, yet still claim to be right in their own findings :(

Have aliens visited us, nope, why would they travel untold light years and not communicate with us, or just ignore us and grab whatever resources they want (how could we stop them), whatever the reason they came here, they wouldn't hide, just think on what would we do to another race if we were their aliens, think American Indians, Inca's, Australian Aboriginals, what all 'empires' have done to native people, not a pretty thought is it.

Cheers David

[smellyman]

8 million people in London and all we got is a few crappy phone shots......

[Paqman]

Occam's Razor says CGI until proven otherwise.

[pwnst*r]

Quite fake, sorry.

[Gremlinzzz]

Looking around earth i come to conclusion that life is easier to create than were led to believe.If a forum of monkey can create a space shuttle ,than why not other life forums can do the same.
I'am just pissed at the Aliens who created this quarter size crop circle on the back of my head:)

[Sslaxx]

Don't any of you guys watch Torchwood? Or Doctor Who?

[haqking]

I struggle to see intelligent lifeforms in my daily life on Earth let alone from somewhere else ;-)

As the OP says "not alien in nature" what is is Alien in nature as we have never met one we dont know ;-)

I suspect most of what we see like this are CIA drones just keeping an eye, have you ever seen a military drone from a distance ? looks like a white bright light spec in the sky darting around ! ;-)

We also have to remember, when ever videos or images like this are posted, everyone jumps on them as being fake, well most of them i really doubt are fake or CGI based (alot of effort for nothing) i suspect the majority are real, it is just we have no eveidence or explanations as to what it is we are seeing. The fact is is that they are UFO's because they are unexplained and flyring, dont mean it is ET though ;-)

[pwnst*r]

More punctuated winks.

[haqking]

More punctuated winks.

I know i do it purposelly because i hate emoticons and i like to share my displeasure ;-)

[pwnst*r]

+1 ;)

[juancarlospaco]

I recommend them to install flightgear and practice because they are bad at flying... ʘ‿ʘ

[forrestcupp]

I stole the Heart of Gold from Zaphod Beeblebrox and was flying over around that time. I thought the probability of people actually seeing me was pretty low, though. ;)

[wojox]

http://planetsmilies.net/alien-smiley-160.gif

[keithpeter]

I stole the Heart of Gold from Zaphod Beeblebrox and was flying over around that time. I thought the probability of people actually seeing me was pretty low, though. ;)

nah, hotblack desiato's pad is in Camden. You need to be a dead rock star to be able to rent one of their flats...

http://www.hotblackdesiato.co.uk/

[Linuxratty]

Looks small and man made to me. I'd call it a publicity stunt.

You might want to watch this:

Neil Tyson talks about UFOs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfAzaDyae-k&feature=related

[MasterNetra]

If it was real I am pretty sure a fleet of craft like that would attract the media's attention, and we'd probably have a lot more footage then just that. Sorry I am not convinced that this footage is legit.

[Bandit]

Yes,
Sadly, many are 'so arrogant'.
Which, when you break it down, simply comes down to ignorance.
Not their faults though.

Cool post Timmer. :KS

Indeed good post from Timmer.

Yea I am always running behind on my news, it takes me hour and a half to watch 60 minutes. :)

I see why many disbelieve and its due to the way they were trained from birth. When I say trained, this covers everything intentional and unintentional starting from delivery to adult hood.
From birth the humans these days are born in a hospital room or a house bedroom (sometimes). Regardless which they are born in a room with walls, ceiling, and floor. Its a space with boundaries. When they get old enough to start moving around, its from the house to the car (another space with boundaries) to another house or shopping center (boundaries). When they get old enough to move around in the house, parents put them in a play pen or put up boundaries to keep them in certain areas of the house. When they get old enough to play outside they are told to stay in the yard. Again they are given boundaries. When they start going to school and they are in science class, when they mention I would like to go to the moon. Teachers reply not unless your become an astronaut, the rest of us are stuck here on Earth. You are basically your told you are stuck within the boundaries of Earth sky (another boundary). When you get older your older and realize that life requires real jobs and your off to work in an accounting firm. Your stuck in your own little world working in a cubical with boundaries. When you want to take vacation unless you got loads of cash and a passport. Your limited where you can take it so your faced with more boundaries.

Its these boundaries that are responsible for training the human mind into never being able to understand infinity. I dont care who says they "understand" infinity. If they cant believe that there is, was or could be other life out there. Then they dont understand how infinity works. Because in their mind those BOUNDARIES are still holding their thinking back giving them what we all call short sightedness. Most everyone is completely unaware of this issue, even when they have it.

--hmm I was going to write more but forgot what I was going to write here..--

Anyway, back on topic. I dont know what they was, but was certainly neat. If I get time I will try to track down some radar information on the area to see if they showed up on radar and if there is a corresponding report to go along with it. If there is nothing on radar its a good chance they could have been some Jet RC craft to look like UFOs. Because those would be normally be reject mostly by the radar because they would show up as birds.

[Gremlinzzz]

They were UFOs to me :D they were unidentified they were flying and they were objects:Dso they were UFOs:D

[forrestcupp]

Well, I guess we could all hang out naked in the rain, snow, sleet, and hail, and let our three year old kids run out in front of cars because we don't want them to feel inhibited by our arrogant belief that we have more understanding than they have.

If we didn't have any boundaries, we'd all be dead.

[Gremlinzzz]

Well, I guess we could all hang out naked in the rain, snow, sleet, and hail, and let our three year old kids run out in front of cars because we don't want them to feel inhibited by our arrogant belief that we have more understanding than they have.

If we didn't have any boundaries, we'd all be dead.

What are ya saying boundaries is the secret to immortality:)

[Bandit]

If we didn't have any boundaries, we'd all be dead.

I am not debating we do or dont need them. That would be even more arrogant on my part. But you can see how it does effect the mind more.

The reason for my insight on this is based on the past when more cultures like Native Americans, Aztec Indians and Mayan Indians knew more about the stars and our solar systems then modern science did up till these past few years. They spent most of their life's outdoors, staring at the stars. Not playing Xbox like its a new religion. They learned from opening their eyes as well as they all claim to believe in beings from the stars. Or star people as they are called. Not to mention there is that Ancient Astronaut theory as well. :)

[Rasa1111]

Very good posts Bandit.
Couldnt agree more.
Well said man.

[Bandit]

Very good posts Bandit.
Couldnt agree more.
Well said man.

Many thanks Rasa :)

[Paqman]

The reason for my insight on this is based on the past when more cultures like Native Americans, Aztec Indians and Mayan Indians knew more about the stars and our solar systems then modern science did up till these past few years. They spent most of their life's outdoors, staring at the stars. Not playing Xbox like its a new religion.

Their astronomy was surprisingly good yes, but then astronomy was something a lot of ancient civilisations were good at. Preoccupied with, in fact. Like you say, they had a lot of time at night to stare at the sky.

However, your second point doesn't really follow. If the modern attitude is inferior, how come we know so much more than them? Us Xbox-addled dolts have access to tools of learning and discovery far, far beyond anything the ancients had. I'd say we're pretty good at knocking down our boundaries, and getting better. The Mayans were never going to build the SKA or the Great Observatories.

Btw, I wouldn't really lump the Aztecs and Maya in together. The Mayans were an ancient civilisation. They were contemporary to the Greeks and Romans. The Aztecs were more late-medieval to Rennaissance-era. Thousands of years between them.

[Gremlinzzz]

You left out the Dogon tribe:)
"Several specialists now claim they have found the long-sought "final evidence" of visits made to earth by ancient astronauts. The myths of the Dogon tribesmen of Mall, West Africa, contain astronomical knowledge which the native people could have neither learned by themselves nor guessed. Obviously, the researchers say, some more advanced civilization told them. These fascinating Dogon legends speak of Jupiter's four moons and Saturn's rings, which were not seen by human beings until the invention of the telescope. They speak of the star Sirius and of a pair of invisible companions. One of them circles Sirius every fifty years, the legends declare, and is made of a metal that is the heaviest thing in the universe. Astronomers have discovered that such an object (called "Sirius-B") does exist but only the most sophisticated and sensitive instruments -- unavailable, of course, to the Dogons -- can detect it.:)

[Bandit]

However, your second point doesn't really follow. If the modern attitude is inferior, how come we know so much more than them?

In general modern Astronomers are just now catching up to what they already knew. I may have needed to word it better last night when I made the post. But intellectual people such as you and I, and prob most everyone in these forums know prob more about stars then say the average person. I am going to define average person as an construction worker, factory worker, accountants, grocery store workers, farmers, etc.. etc..; Smart people non the less and no pun intended on them and is NOT intended to label them all. They are the heart and soul of our country and a small % of them do know prob more then I. But most of you average people cant even name the planets we have here in our solar system. This is hard for someone like myself and I am sure others to imagine. But put this to the test today or sometime this week. Ask random person to name the planets, or what year did we land on the moon. I doubt even many can name a political figure in your government. Most folks here have no clue who our secretary of state is until they have done something to get in trouble, then they know everything about him/her. :D

[Gremlinzzz]

In general modern Astronomers are just now catching up to what they already knew. I may have needed to word it better last night when I made the post. But intellectual people such as you and I, and prob most everyone in these forums know prob more about stars then say the average person. I am going to define average person as an construction worker, factory worker, accountants, grocery store workers, farmers, etc.. etc..; Smart people non the less and no pun intended on them and is NOT intended to label them all. They are the heart and soul of our country and a small % of them do know prob more then I. But most of you average people cant even name the planets we have here in our solar system. This is hard for someone like myself and I am sure others to imagine. But put this to the test today or sometime this week. Ask random person to name the planets, or what year did we land on the moon. I doubt even many can name a political figure in your government. Most folks here have no clue who our secretary of state is until they have done something to get in trouble, then they know everything about him/her. :D

People will only remember what's interesting to them.
Like how many people know every note on a guitar neck,i do:D

[Paqman]

In general modern Astronomers are just now catching up to what they already knew.

This is just complete nonsense. We surpassed them hundreds of years ago when Newton published his works on gravity and the movement of celestial bodies.

Some ancient civilisations had made very accurate measurements of the movements of these bodies, and were able to make reasonably accurate predictions about their future movements due to the large amount of historical data they had, but they didn't understand why they moved in the way they did.

We developed a much more accurate and correct picture of things using the Newtonian model, but about a hundred years ago we even moved on from that when Einstein published his works about relativity.

I really don't see how you could suggest that any of the New World civilisations were ahead of Newton, let alone Einstein.

[Gremlinzzz]

This is just complete nonsense. We surpassed them hundreds of years ago when Newton published his works on gravity and the movement of celestial bodies.

Some ancient civilisations had made very accurate measurements of the movements of these bodies, and were able to make reasonably accurate predictions about their future movements due to the large amount of historical data they had, but they didn't understand why they moved in the way they did.

We developed a much more accurate and correct picture of things using the Newtonian model, but about a hundred years ago we even moved on from that when Einstein published his works about relativity.

I really don't see how you could suggest that any of the New World civilisations were ahead of Newton, let alone Einstein.

Can you explain The Dogon tribe:)

[MasterNetra]

Can you explain The Dogon tribe:)

I can, Weed. Some powerful stuff. :P lol jk Just where did you get this formation about this "Dogon Tribe"? If you say fox news...prepare to be shot! :P

[Bandit]

Can you explain The Dogon tribe:)

LOL good looking out. I forgot about them. Wikipedia doesnt say it, but I read before that they originated from Egypt during the last reign of one of the pharaohs.

Wikipedia is a little vague on the Sirus stars part, but when I was watching Ancient Aliens on History channel a while back they even had a working model of the stars in movement. Many speculate that their knowledge was influenced by outside civilizations. But really, no modern scientist knew anything much about Sirus star group back in 1931-1938.

[Bandit]

People will only remember what's interesting to them.
Like how many people know every note on a guitar neck,i do:D

This can be true in many specific things, like music notes and instruments. But some things people should *just* know. :( sadly most dont..

[VanR]

Well call me crazy, but I saw something just like that over Tucson, AZ yesterday afternoon. And at least 2 times last week at night when my wife and I were out in the hottub. I see them all the time out here.

[Bandit]

Well call me crazy, but I saw something just like that over Tucson, AZ yesterday afternoon. And at least 2 times last week at night when my wife and I were out in the hottub. I see them all the time out here.

Arizona is a hot spot for UFO activity, especially the lower half around Phoenix, Tuscon and over to Yuma.

Big question is, what on earth are you doing in a HOT tub in the middle of July in one of the hottest places in the US.. lol

[VanR]

Arizona is a hot spot for UFO activity, especially the lower half around Phoenix, Tuscon and over to Yuma.

Big question is, what on earth are you doing in a HOT tub in the middle of July in one of the hottest places in the US.. lol

I basically have the heater turned all the way down. So the water stays around body temperature. Still get cold when you get out of the hottub. Besides the monsoon is here now and most of the heat is gone. May and June tend to be the hottest months around here. Once July gets here and the rains start the heat subsides somewhat, until Sept. anyway.

[fyfe54]

This video is of recent recorded UFOs over BBC 1 building in London:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDIF-ZwJbF0


Cheers..

They came to rescue Rupert Murdoch and the rest of the Murdochians. And all along, I thought he was from Australia.

[Gremlinzzz]

zooomed in:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMY5ZHerssY&NR=1

[Rasa1111]

This is just complete nonsense. We surpassed them hundreds of years ago when Newton published his works on gravity and the movement of celestial bodies.

Some ancient civilisations had made very accurate measurements of the movements of these bodies, and were able to make reasonably accurate predictions about their future movements due to the large amount of historical data they had, but they didn't understand why they moved in the way they did.

We developed a much more accurate and correct picture of things using the Newtonian model, but about a hundred years ago we even moved on from that when Einstein published his works about relativity.

I really don't see how you could suggest that any of the New World civilisations were ahead of Newton, let alone Einstein.


No, You're wrong.
I work at an observatory and spend a lot of my free time researching these "crazy" things.

We did not "surpass" them hundreds of years ago.
We didn't even learn there was actually a Sirius B until 1970.

When ancient peoples knew of it thousands of years before.

What about Mayan astronomy?
Ever studied that?

For "primitive/ancient" People..
They knew a hell of a lot more than us, and we are just beginning to understand some of the things they Knew.

Stop calling "nonsense" and "silliness"
It's not very becoming.
:rolleyes:

p.s.. The old Newtonian ways are quickly becoming less and less true, and more and more obsolete.
Quantum physics tells us so.
Newton and Descartes did more harm to "science' than they did good.
Really. :P

Im crazy though..
so move on. :P

[Rasa1111]

Well call me crazy, but I saw something just like that over Tucson, AZ yesterday afternoon. And at least 2 times last week at night when my wife and I were out in the hottub. I see them all the time out here.


lol, I'd never call you crazy for seeing thing's that I know to exist.
Arizona is indeed a 'hot spot'.
I don't doubt you for a second.

Thanks for sharing! :KS

[Copper Bezel]

p.s.. The old Newtonian ways are quickly becoming less and less true, and more and more obsolete.
Quantum physics tells us so.
Newton and Descartes did more harm to "science' than they did good.
Really.
Wow - and I don't really much mind where you work, do not put Newton and Descartes in the same sentence. Modern astronomy started in the Arabic world, but Newton was one of the first to take all the assorted observations folks had made and pull a self-consistent model out of them - and it was, like it or not, roughly accurate. That's much more meaningful than whether or not the folks making the observations Newton was depending on happened to miss a dim object here or there, even one that someone else noticed a bit before and decided was the sign of the god of telemarketing.

Descartes' methods, by contrast, were hardly any better than any particular astrologer's. He mostly made things up because they sounded cool, often in direct opposition to actual observations that he would have himself had access to.

[Rasa1111]

Copper Bezel..
I don't fully disagree.

However, A large number of books being written today often throw Newton and Descartes in the same sentence.
Books written by quantum and astro physicists.

Maybe you'd like to tell them what "not" to do or say?
Maybe?

[Bölvaður]

The video looks normal to me. There is nothing "alieny" about it at least.

[t0p]

If there are aliens visiting the earth, why don't they publicly announce their existence? Why do they confine themselves to abducting and anally-probing loner losers with a history of mental illness who no one who'd ever ever believing, and mutilating the odd cow?

[Dry Lips]

This is something that happened a couple of years ago:
A close family member called me up and seemed quite shaken, and told me this story: He lives in the capital of our country and had an appointment with his physiotherapist. At some point he walked over to the window when something caught his attention. High, high, up in the air he saw 30-40 sort of transparent spheres flying in a formation before they disappeared out of view.


Then his physiotherapist asked him, "what is it"? "I'm not sure", he replied, "I guess just a few birds or something". He continued his therapy, but was out of it for a whole week afterwards. Then, the next time he came for his therapy, he confessed to his physiotherapist that he had seen something very strange the last week, something that wasn't birds. When he was finished relating his story, the physiotherapist replied, dead serious: “I've spoken to a man from another planet. I don't dare to talk about it to anyone.”


Here is my 0.02£ about the issue:
a) I believe that people see something we can refer to as “UFOs”. (Not planets, nor weather-balloons, but “something”)
b) I don't believe “they” are “aliens” in the popular sense of the word.
c) To explain this phenomena fully would require me to go beyond the CoC, which says that we're not going to have discussions about religion and spirituality. So I'll leave this matter for now.

[cprofitt]

If there are aliens visiting the earth, why don't they publicly announce their existence? Why do they confine themselves to abducting and anally-probing loner losers with a history of mental illness who no one who'd ever ever believing, and mutilating the odd cow?

Starfleet General Order #1 or The Prime Directive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mH-L6UCCAE

[Bandit]

If there are aliens visiting the earth, why don't they publicly announce their existence? Why do they confine themselves to abducting and anally-probing loner losers with a history of mental illness who no one who'd ever ever believing, and mutilating the odd cow?

LOL, thats is seriously a good question. We dont know why, thats whats makes it so much fun trying to figure craziness out.

As part of the public announcement. I personally dont think most of the population could handle finding out they are not on top of the food chain per se as most think they are.

Or what if they are among us now? What if they blended with early man and we became who we are now. There are many questions for us to figure out. Our own DNA is covered with tons and tons of instructions that dont even pertain to our genetic structure. Scientist are still trying to unravel what its for. Many questions to ask we do. Does anyone care to ponder why we have an organ that at one time removed radiation from our bodies, but is now useless from not being used for thousands of years?



Extra video on cow mutilations..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A818bCjNetw&feature=player_embedded

[Bandit]

Here is my 0.02£ about the issue:
a) I believe that people see something we can refer to as “UFOs”. (Not planets, nor weather-balloons, but “something”)
b) I don't believe “they” are “aliens” in the popular sense of the word.
c) To explain this phenomena fully would require me to go beyond the CoC, which says that we're not going to have discussions about religion and spirituality. So I'll leave this matter for now.

Yea there is soo much I could bring up that would cause a friendly debate to go overboard also. Hate for that to happen, but I love hearing feedback from everyone no matter what their insight is on the matter. :)



EDIT:
This is why they dont show themselves.. They are to busy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9RGZxjORF0&NR=1&feature=fvwp)..

[Gremlinzzz]

This video is of recent recorded UFOs over BBC 1 building in London:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDIF-ZwJbF0

There are many other videos on the same event posted on the web so likely hood of video being faked is rare. And if they are not alien in nature, then what were these unidentified flying objects?
Any thoughts or comments?



Cheers..

To me it looks like a UFO trying to blend in with the clouds,:D

[Bandit]

To me it looks like a UFO trying to blend in with the clouds,:D

But this is what they was really doing up there. hehe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9RGZxjORF0&NR=1&feature=fvwp)

[Paqman]

p.s.. The old Newtonian ways are quickly becoming less and less true, and more and more obsolete.
Quantum physics tells us so.


Quantum physics really has sod all to do with anything on the macro scale that Newtonian mechanics works at. Relativity was what augmented (and to a certain degree supplanted) Newton's work. Quantum mechanics doesn't really work at a macro scale, which i'm sure you realise since you "work at an observatory". What exactly do you do there, if you don't mind me asking?

[Bandit]

Quantum physics really has sod all to do with anything on the macro scale that Newtonian mechanics works at. Relativity was what augmented (and to a certain degree supplanted) Newton's work. Quantum mechanics doesn't really work at a macro scale, which i'm sure you realise since you "work at an observatory". What exactly do you do there, if you don't mind me asking?

I would like to add, but not steer the topic off course. Which I am bad about doing. :) In regards to General Relativity and Special Relativity (for quantum mechanics), the formulas are wrong. Any time you need two separate and completely different math formulas to calculate two of the same effects, then something is wrong with how your working the math to get the answer. Albert knew this and admitted it, but unfortunately passed away before he could figure out why in regards to this. So just because the formulas we use now are somewhat working now, doesn't mean they are always correct.

[Copper Bezel]

There are people working to get quantum field theory to predict general relativity, and some of them say that their equations work.

But everything is just a model that accounts for a behavior. Newtonian physics did a part of that, and general relativity did slightly more, and so on. A model is accurate, not correct. Like this (http://xkcd.com/895/). = O

[Dragonbite]

They're trying to figure out who to "save" before the end of the work in 2012!

If we don't all kill ourselves before then! ;)

[forrestcupp]

If there are aliens visiting the earth, why don't they publicly announce their existence? Why do they confine themselves to abducting and anally-probing loner losers with a history of mental illness who no one who'd ever ever believing, and mutilating the odd cow?

My theory is that their planet's star is growing, subjecting them to mass quantities of radiation, resulting in outbreaks of rectal cancer. They are probing us to try to learn how to counteract that. ;)

I like Douglas Adams's theory, that they are just teen aged alien hotrods that fly through our atmosphere for the sole reason of freaking us out. :)

[Gremlinzzz]

Long as they don't come here and say
Earthlings we are your father:D
You are a Alien high school class project:D
Some Alien kids ant farm:D
But most likely, Earth is where we dump all the crazies:D

[DangerOnTheRanger]

You left out the Dogon tribe:)
"Several specialists now claim they have found the long-sought "final evidence" of visits made to earth by ancient astronauts. The myths of the Dogon tribesmen of Mall, West Africa, contain astronomical knowledge which the native people could have neither learned by themselves nor guessed. Obviously, the researchers say, some more advanced civilization told them. These fascinating Dogon legends speak of Jupiter's four moons and Saturn's rings, which were not seen by human beings until the invention of the telescope. They speak of the star Sirius and of a pair of invisible companions. One of them circles Sirius every fifty years, the legends declare, and is made of a metal that is the heaviest thing in the universe. Astronomers have discovered that such an object (called "Sirius-B") does exist but only the most sophisticated and sensitive instruments -- unavailable, of course, to the Dogons -- can detect it.:)

[citation needed] :P

I don't see why people like you are excited about the possibility of the existence of extra-terrestrials; if they're out there, they're likely not friendly.

[Bandit]

There are people working to get quantum field theory to predict general relativity, and some of them say that their equations work.

But everything is just a model that accounts for a behavior. Newtonian physics did a part of that, and general relativity did slightly more, and so on. A model is accurate, not correct. Like this (http://xkcd.com/895/). = O

True I give you that. Taking into consideration what he had to work with at the time I will say he did best he could and did it well.

[Bandit]

Long as they don't come here and say
Earthlings we are your father:D
You are a Alien high school class project:D
Some Alien kids ant farm:D
But most likely, Earth is where we dump all the crazies:D

THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyzIau5dBao) <-- hehe, were all just marbles!!

[psusi]

I once saw a UFO. I was driving down the road and spent a good 3 minutes staring at it trying to figure out what it was. I was starting to get freaked out that maybe the crazies were right about alien spacecraft. Then my viewing angle suddenly shifted just right and I could clearly see that it was just a blimp. I felt silly for letting my imagination get away from me and leave rational thought behind.

The point is that the human brain constantly tries to classify what it sees based on past experience, and often is wrong. Just because you can't identify something that appears to be flying does not mean it is an alien space ship. You may as well leap to the conclusion that they are angels out on a recon trip for God.

[NightwishFan]

The video looked unconvincing to me but I do not know the whole story behind it.

[Zerocool Djx]

It's a fake,...

Think about it,. if it was real you would have more then 3 people looking at it and there prolly his friends in on the stunt. You yould have EVERYONE looking at the sky, and some people screaming. Something big like that isn't like, "oh, kewl, another UFO again, hi ET!"

[Bandit]

I once saw a UFO. I was driving down the road and spent a good 3 minutes staring at it trying to figure out what it was. I was starting to get freaked out that maybe the crazies were right about alien spacecraft. Then my viewing angle suddenly shifted just right and I could clearly see that it was just a blimp. I felt silly for letting my imagination get away from me and leave rational thought behind.

The point is that the human brain constantly tries to classify what it sees based on past experience, and often is wrong. Just because you can't identify something that appears to be flying does not mean it is an alien space ship. You may as well leap to the conclusion that they are angels out on a recon trip for God.

I can concur with that. I was coming home from a hunting trip in my backwoods and once emptied 2x 15 round banana clips into a tree I thought was a brown bear standing up in a field. Turns out it was just the wind making it bend and rise up and poor eyesight in late dusk to go a long with that.

But I also was driving a long a dirt road not to far from were I live now, with 3 other friends of mine that were out rabbit hunting at night. As you prob can deduct by now I live in redneck central. But anyway we was driving back home and we went to go around a slight curve and we thought we seen a tractor in a field with a plethora of lights, this is normal with older folks due to the heat here during the summer months. But when we got closer, and we got very close within 50ft from it. Thats how close it was to the road, we stopped and realized this was not a tractor. But at the moment we did not have a clue to what it was. A little paranoia set over 2 of my friends, curiosity had me hooked. We sat for no longer then 30 to 45 seconds trying to figure this out while my car windows were down, when the object started to float upwards. At this point UFO, ET or the Rudolf were the furthest from my mind. I was still trying to ponder what this actually was from a realistic stand point. Well the object went about 100 feet in the air, just above the tree tops and floated over the top of the car. So we took off following the object which was close to the main highway and so we turned on the main highway and followed the object eastward. The object slowly gained speed and kept rising upward. Well about 2 to 3 miles down the road it was very high up but still very visible. Then like out of a scifi movie, I kid you not. It took off into space like a streak of light. And was gone. Just like you could have seen on startrek. Its at that point, tractor and stupid looking hotair balloon were removed from our list. It was something different. That was for sure.

[Bandit]

It's a fake,...

Think about it,. if it was real you would have more then 3 people looking at it and there prolly his friends in on the stunt. You yould have EVERYONE looking at the sky, and some people screaming. Something big like that isn't like, "oh, kewl, another UFO again, hi ET!"

I want argue if they are real or fake as that would be foolish on my behalf. But there are multiple recording from different people all over london that week.

In regards to people not paying attention, you would be really surprised how many either pay no attention, dont want to know or dont bother to report due to taking a chance of looking like fool or being made fun of from other non believers.
Even in these days, you take a huge chance of looking like a lunatic from reporting UFOs.

[forrestcupp]

Think about it,. if it was real you would have more then 3 people looking at it and there prolly his friends in on the stunt. You yould have EVERYONE looking at the sky, and some people screaming. Something big like that isn't like, "oh, kewl, another UFO again, hi ET!"

Have you ever walked downtown in a large city and observed people? People are always talking on their cell phones or going about their business with their day's tasks on their minds. I don't think I've ever noticed anyone in that type of setting looking up at the sky unless there was a firework show. There could be all kinds of unobtrusive things going on in the sky and no one would ever notice.

[NightwishFan]

Have you ever walked downtown in a large city and observed people? People are always talking on their cell phones or going about their business with their day's tasks on their minds. I don't think I've ever noticed anyone in that type of setting looking up at the sky unless there was a firework show. There could be all kinds of unobtrusive things going on in the sky and no one would ever notice.

Besides the way they run in the beginning and meet the crowd of onlookers. I know for a fact that being with a camera makes you nearsighted you likely would have the camera facing the sky whist wandering closer.

[DawieS]

I want argue if they are real or fake as that would be foolish on my behalf. But there are multiple recording from different people all over london that week.
The fact that there were so many independent sightings and recordings by individuals not acquainted to each other, may be used to scientifically prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that these events DID take place, and that what you are looking at is not the product of some pranksters playing around with Moviemaker or OpenShot or whatever. It would require a lot of legwork and interviews though, to gather all the evidence before a good assessment can be made.

After that is done, you then need to take a good look at all the pictures and footage, and try to describe WHAT it is that you are looking at. My (preliminary) description would be:
- Large disk shaped flying objects, diameter +- 30m, capable of hovering in one position, and then taking off with an extremely high acceleration in a given direction. Also capable of following angular flight patterns, as if not requiring banking to change direction.
- The technology used is unknown, and way beyond the best of human capabilities up to now. It is also impossible for a human body to survive these kinds of accelerations, which is closer to the bullet in a rifle barrel, than the fastest man-made rocket ever built.
(These statements need to be quantified with proper numbers after taking triangular measurements and doing some calculations. There will obviously be some margin of error, due to the quality of the evidence at hand).

[KiwiNZ]

The fact that there were so many independent sightings and recordings by individuals not acquainted to each other, may be used to scientifically prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that these events DID take place, and that what you are looking at is not the product of some pranksters playing around with Moviemaker or OpenShot or whatever. It would require a lot of legwork and interviews though, to gather all the evidence before a good assessment can be made.

After that is done, you then need to take a good look at all the pictures and footage, and try to describe WHAT it is that you are looking at. My (preliminary) description would be:
- Large disk shaped flying objects, diameter +- 30m, capable of hovering in one position, and then taking off with an extremely high acceleration in a given direction. Also capable of following angular flight patterns, as if not requiring banking to change direction.
- The technology used is unknown, and way beyond the best of human capabilities up to now. It is also impossible for a human body to survive these kinds of accelerations, which is closer to the bullet in a rifle barrel, than the fastest man-made rocket ever built.
(These statements need to be quantified with proper numbers after taking triangular measurements and doing some calculations. There will obviously be some margin of error, due to the quality of the evidence at hand).

The movement is clearly "hand generated" like someone using a Laser.

[DawieS]

The movement is clearly "hand generated" like someone using a Laser.
You have skipped the first step, and have already come to conclusions before examining ALL the evidence, not so?[-X

[forrestcupp]

The fact that there were so many independent sightings and recordings by individuals not acquainted to each other, may be used to scientifically prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that these events DID take place
People keep saying that there are a lot of independent recordings, but I've never seen any besides this one. Does anyone have any links to videos other people have taken of the same event?

[Bandit]

The movement is clearly "hand generated" like someone using a Laser.

Being very used to using lasers attached to weapons while in the military. I can honestly say that no ones hand is that steady. I can shoot the tip off a car antenna while it is driving down the road at 100 yards and I am not that steady. I even know people 10 times better shot then myself and they are not that steady. The motion of those objects may be quick. But they are fluid and not jerky as a laser would be at that range. Plus no commercial laser is that bright during the day. At least not one some kid could buy just for a prank. :popcorn:

Not claiming UFO just yet, but sure its not a laser.

[NightwishFan]

People keep saying that there are a lot of independent recordings, but I've never seen any besides this one. Does anyone have any links to videos other people have taken of the same event?
You belong in a museum! :)

Also I concur with this request. I have only seen the one.

[forrestcupp]

You belong in a museum! :)
Why, thank you. :)

My first thought as someone who has worked a small amount with videos was that it's not easy to superimpose fake UFOs onto a shaky video and have it move with the shakiness that perfectly.

But since then, I've thought of two things. Firstly, motion tracking technology has come a long way, and someone from a studio would certainly have access to that tech. Even Cinelerra can do motion tracking. And secondly, it would be extremely easy for someone to have a steady shot, superimpose a fake UFO onto that steady shot, and then simulate shakiness just to make it look legit.

[ubuntu27]

It could be a image created by Project Bluebeam (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=project+bluebeam), a human made craft (it is documented that Germans was experimenting with "flying saucers" in WWII), or a real space craft.

[KiwiNZ]

Being very used to using lasers attached to weapons while in the military. I can honestly say that no ones hand is that steady. I can shoot the tip off a car antenna while it is driving down the road at 100 yards and I am not that steady. I even know people 10 times better shot then myself and they are not that steady. The motion of those objects may be quick. But they are fluid and not jerky as a laser would be at that range. Plus no commercial laser is that bright during the day. At least not one some kid could buy just for a prank. :popcorn:

Not claiming UFO just yet, but sure its not a laser.

Mount them on a tripod it only needs a small movement on the ground to make that movement on an inversion layer.

Remember a few millimeters movement on a Hand gun equates to a lot of movement at say 100 meters.

[Gremlinzzz]

This one seems like same UFOs from different point of view.:D
If this ones a fake don't ya think they could've done a better job:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nN6mhnD7E0&NR=1

[KiwiNZ]

Also London airspace is very controlled that many Aircraft would show on the Radar and would be see by stacked passenger aircraft.

[KiwiNZ]

If Extraterrestrial craft are visiting this Planet one would have to consider the following

1. Where are they coming from. As we have not detected any life forms or inhabitable Planets in our neighborhood of space then one must assume they
would be traveling long distances to get here.

2. If they are close to us and this would have to be the case if all the occurrences are the same Extraterrestrials then surely we would have seen other evidence
like on the Hubble Scope or other detection systems being used to explore space.

3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .

4. If they are traveling vast distances and using enormous amounts of energy why would they not make themselves known and again if they are the
same Extraterrestrials why would they do this over and over again for no apparent reason ?

5. Given the level of motoring and surveillance that goes on Globally it is not plausible that any "visit" would be undetected or unverified.And given this
what is the motivation to keep these incidents if detected secret?

Now after saying all of the above I am sure that life forms do exist elsewhere in the Universe. Would it be recognizable for us? would it be similar to that on earth?
Life developed that way it has is due to the circumstances that have existed here and therefore life on other locations would/could have an entirely different set of
circumstances making any life forms very different that that which developed here. Why would they have two arms, legs fingers and thumbs like Homo-sapiens?
Our current form is a result of our evolutionary tree.

What has made the process of sorting out an answer to this is difficult is that Pseudo Science and conspiracy and hoax is rife thus clouding the matter.

[Gremlinzzz]

People keep saying that there are a lot of independent recordings, but I've never seen any besides this one. Does anyone have any links to videos other people have taken of the same event?

This looks like one:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nN6mhnD7E0&NR=1

[NightwishFan]

What has made the process of sorting out an answer to this is difficult is that Pseudo Science and conspiracy and hoax is rife thus clouding the matter.

Great post. I did a lot of research for fun on the matter and you are quite correct. In my opinion this video just is not logical to begin with.

[NightwishFan]

This looks like one:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nN6mhnD7E0&NR=1

Is this not the same person? It even has the same style foot angle shaky cam to still footage as the other one.

[Gremlinzzz]

Is this not the same person? It even has the same style foot angle shaky cam to still footage as the other one.

Might be think at the end he says he's been seeing these UFOs:D
this one says Wednesday the other i believe says Friday:D

[Gremlinzzz]

Might be think at the end he says he's been seeing these UFOs:D
this one says Wednesday the other i believe says Friday:D

Conclusion that video is most likely a fake:D

[Chronon]

If Extraterrestrial craft are visiting this Planet one would have to consider the following

1. Where are they coming from. As we have not detected any life forms or inhabitable Planets in our neighborhood of space then one must assume they
would be traveling long distances to get here.

2. If they are close to us and this would have to be the case if all the occurrences are the same Extraterrestrials then surely we would have seen other evidence
like on the Hubble Scope or other detection systems being used to explore space.

3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .

4. If they are traveling vast distances and using enormous amounts of energy why would they not make themselves known and again if they are the
same Extraterrestrials why would they do this over and over again for no apparent reason ?

5. Given the level of motoring and surveillance that goes on Globally it is not plausible that any "visit" would be undetected or unverified.And given this
what is the motivation to keep these incidents if detected secret?

Now after saying all of the above I am sure that life forms do exist elsewhere in the Universe. Would it be recognizable for us? would it be similar to that on earth?
Life developed that way it has is due to the circumstances that have existed here and therefore life on other locations would/could have an entirely different set of
circumstances making any life forms very different that that which developed here. Why would they have two arms, legs fingers and thumbs like Homo-sapiens?
Our current form is a result of our evolutionary tree.

What has made the process of sorting out an answer to this is difficult is that Pseudo Science and conspiracy and hoax is rife thus clouding the matter.
+1 to all of this.

[supergirlkara]

This is so true. I believe UFOs are out there, whether or not they are visiting Earth is another thing. I guess everyone is entitled to their own theories. After all there is no proof on either end of the argument.

[hhh]

That is one of the worst quality videos I've seen in a long time.

How do you get the entire view-field to warble/warp in places like that, and on a digital camera no less?

Did he start a moped up right at the beginning? What is that (crappy sounding) motor sound?

How can there be so much wind noise when the little hairs on peoples' heads are barely moving? Is he crumpling sandpaper up right next to the mic?

[Dragonbite]

If Extraterrestrial craft are visiting this Planet one would have to consider the following

1. Where are they coming from. As we have not detected any life forms or inhabitable Planets in our neighborhood of space then one must assume they
would be traveling long distances to get here.

2. If they are close to us and this would have to be the case if all the occurrences are the same Extraterrestrials then surely we would have seen other evidence
like on the Hubble Scope or other detection systems being used to explore space.

3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .

4. If they are traveling vast distances and using enormous amounts of energy why would they not make themselves known and again if they are the
same Extraterrestrials why would they do this over and over again for no apparent reason ?

5. Given the level of motoring and surveillance that goes on Globally it is not plausible that any "visit" would be undetected or unverified.And given this
what is the motivation to keep these incidents if detected secret?

Now after saying all of the above I am sure that life forms do exist elsewhere in the Universe. Would it be recognizable for us? would it be similar to that on earth?
Life developed that way it has is due to the circumstances that have existed here and therefore life on other locations would/could have an entirely different set of
circumstances making any life forms very different that that which developed here. Why would they have two arms, legs fingers and thumbs like Homo-sapiens?
Our current form is a result of our evolutionary tree.

What has made the process of sorting out an answer to this is difficult is that Pseudo Science and conspiracy and hoax is rife thus clouding the matter.

That's a lot of assumptions limited by what we know about space, time and motives of extraterrestrials some believe don't exist ;)

[NightwishFan]

That's a lot of assumptions limited by what we know about space, time and motives of extraterrestrials some believe don't exist ;)

This is a bit limited but it should give you an idea of some ideas behind this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

[Paqman]

motion tracking technology has come a long way, and someone from a studio would certainly have access to that tech. Even Cinelerra can do motion tracking. And secondly, it would be extremely easy for someone to have a steady shot, superimpose a fake UFO onto that steady shot, and then simulate shakiness just to make it look legit.

That part of London is swarming with media agencies and post production houses. Soho is pretty much wall-to-wall with folks who would easily have been able to mock this up for a laugh.

I think it's a viral for Radio 1.

[forrestcupp]

Mount them on a tripod it only needs a small movement on the ground to make that movement on an inversion layer.

Remember a few millimeters movement on a Hand gun equates to a lot of movement at say 100 meters.What is the laser shining on? And why does it disappear behind clouds? Even if it is fake or some man-made thing, I highly doubt if it is a laser.


Also London airspace is very controlled that many Aircraft would show on the Radar and would be see by stacked passenger aircraft.We currently have stealth aircraft technology that significantly lessens the ability for radar detection. I'm definitely not saying these are aliens, but if they were, they would have to have technology far beyond anything we've imagined just to cross those distances in a practical amount of time. So the radar argument isn't very solid in that light.



1. Where are they coming from. As we have not detected any life forms or inhabitable Planets in our neighborhood of space then one must assume they
would be traveling long distances to get here.We still find new species of animals on the earth from time to time. I doubt we can make the assumption that there is no life on any planet around us.


2. If they are close to us and this would have to be the case if all the occurrences are the same Extraterrestrials then surely we would have seen other evidence
like on the Hubble Scope or other detection systems being used to explore space.Then you have the quotes of astronauts who said they have seen things, but these quotes are hushed, and the repeating of them is attributed to conspiracy theory. I don't know; I'm just saying. :)


3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .So you really think that our "laws of physics" and Einstein's Theory are the sum of everything there is to know about how the universe works?


4. If they are traveling vast distances and using enormous amounts of energy why would they not make themselves known and again if they are the
same Extraterrestrials why would they do this over and over again for no apparent reason ?"No apparent reason" doesn't mean "no reason".


That part of London is swarming with media agencies and post production houses. Soho is pretty much wall-to-wall with folks who would easily have been able to mock this up for a laugh.

I think it's a viral for Radio 1.Probably true.

I don't think this occurrence is evidence of aliens from another planet, and I think there's a decent chance that it was faked. I just don't like weak arguments. Also, if it wasn't faked, it doesn't mean they are a bunch of space men traveling across the galaxy. It could be a lot of things.

[MasterNetra]

...
So you really think that our "laws of physics" and Einstein's Theory are the sum of everything there is to know about how the universe works?
...


Additionally some our "Laws of Physics" maybe mistaken or may not apply in all situations.

I will even go out on a limb and say Light Speed isn't the fastest there is, simply because the Photons aren't smallest piece of matter there is (Quantum particles anyone?). And just because we haven't figured how to break the light speed barrier doesn't mean it can't be done. Not that I'd advocate traveling at light speed directly in space with what craft we can make atm as it would be suicide to travel at such speeds without anyway to shield yourself from the mico-meteors that exist all over. Not to mention the short respond times when coming up on larger objects in space. After all folks lets not forget the spaces inside and outside solar systems are not empty.

And some thing else that gets my goat are these physicists assuming that it would take x amount of energy to fold space or create a wormhole and the like. Its assumptious to assume such things when we haven't even figure how to do any of these things. So I say lets wait until we figure how to do something before we even consider how much energy it would take to preform such action. For all we know it could take a pair of AA batteries in a refined form to create a wormhole, granted I personally doubt it could be done with only a couple of AA's but then again we won't know until we learn how to do it and refine it.

[forrestcupp]

I will even go out on a limb and say Light Speed isn't the fastest there is, simply because the Photons aren't smallest piece of matter there is (Quantum particles anyone?). And just because we haven't figured how to break the light speed barrier doesn't mean it can't be done. Not that I'd advocate traveling at light speed directly in space with what craft we can make atm as it would be suicide to travel at such speeds without anyway to shield yourself from the mico-meteors that exist all over. Not to mention the short respond times when coming up on larger objects in space. After all folks lets not forget the spaces inside and outside solar systems are not empty.

And some thing else that gets my goat are these physicists assuming that it would take x amount of energy to fold space or create a wormhole and the like. Its assumptious to assume such things when we haven't even figure how to do any of these things. So I say lets wait until we figure how to do something before we even consider how much energy it would take to preform such action. For all we know it could take a pair of AA batteries in a refined form to create a wormhole, granted I personally doubt it could be done with only a couple of AA's but then again we won't know until we learn how to do it and refine it.I think the idea of a wormhole is a lot more believable for distance traveling than traveling at faster than the speed of light. I'd love to see what it would do to a body when you're craft dodges something going at light speed. :) It seems like there would be way to many random variables out there to be able to just perform the correct calculations before jumping to warp speed, like on Star Wars.

[MasterNetra]

I think the idea of a wormhole is a lot more believable for distance traveling than traveling at faster than the speed of light. I'd love to see what it would do to a body when you're craft dodges something going at light speed. :) It seems like there would be way to many random variables out there to be able to just perform the correct calculations before jumping to light speed, like on Star Wars.

There fixed that for you, Star Trek does warp speed. But yea, and even if you could get a clear path when you jump doesn't mean that path will remain clear while your in transit either.

Now what I would find even more interesting is if we found a hyperspace of a sort that was clear of matter (save for ships and the like that pops in) which case Light Speed + Hyperspace = Win for local stellar travel, pending the travel ratio between it and normal space of course. I would think wormholes would be more ideal for traveling galaxy to galaxy, not sure if it would be a good idea to plop one next to or in/on a planet. I would think once we become truly space faring that we may end up using multiple methods of travel, pending the situation.

[forrestcupp]

There fixed that for you, Star Trek does warp speed. But yea, and even if you could get a clear path when you jump doesn't mean that path will remain clear while your in transit either.That's what I was thinking. And I should have said hyperspace or hyperdrive for Star Wars.

[MasterNetra]

That's what I was thinking. And I should have said hyperspace or hyperdrive for Star Wars.

The hyperspace I was thinking of I guess was Babylon 5 style.

[Bandit]

If Extraterrestrial craft are visiting this Planet one would have to consider the following

1. Where are they coming from. As we have not detected any life forms or inhabitable Planets in our neighborhood of space then one must assume they would be traveling long distances to get here.
Perhaps they have been here for thousands of years or came over from Mars before it lost its oceans and atmosphere. Its proven Mars did cool off faster after the formation of our solar system. I cant prove this, but its food for thought.



2. If they are close to us and this would have to be the case if all the occurrences are the same Extraterrestrials then surely we would have seen other evidence like on the Hubble Scope or other detection systems being used to explore space.
Actually there has been many many encounters with civilans and military both that are documented. Roswell NM(1947) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident), Battle over LA(1942) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Los_Angeles) and Rendlesham RAF Base(1980) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesham_Forest_incident) just for starters.



3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .
Einstein also stated that Wormholes are possible. Now Light Speed is not safe even if we could travel at it, plus its to slow. But nothing to say that they dont posses technology that can bend/fold space time allowing cover more distance by using less energy. Just becuase we havent did it yet, doesnt mean its not possible for a culture that may be 10,000 years older to already have this technology.



4. If they are traveling vast distances and using enormous amounts of energy why would they not make themselves known and again if they are the same Extraterrestrials why would they do this over and over again for no apparent reason ?
Thats an excellent question. We could ponder hundreds of ideas and good chance we would never figure it out.



5. Given the level of motoring and surveillance that goes on Globally it is not plausible that any "visit" would be undetected or unverified.And given this what is the motivation to keep these incidents if detected secret?
Just becuase we are told by our governments that this doesnt happen doesnt make it true. Dont want to get political with this one, but food for thought is Groom lake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_Lake). Yeaour gov says it doesnt exist either..



Now after saying all of the above I am sure that life forms do exist elsewhere in the Universe. Would it be recognizable for us? would it be similar to that on earth?
Life developed that way it has is due to the circumstances that have existed here and therefore life on other locations would/could have an entirely different set of
circumstances making any life forms very different that that which developed here. Why would they have two arms, legs fingers and thumbs like Homo-sapiens?
Our current form is a result of our evolutionary tree.

What has made the process of sorting out an answer to this is difficult is that Pseudo Science and conspiracy and hoax is rife thus clouding the matter.
Indeed I cant argue any of that. I love to look up UFO information but what makes it so difficult is that non believers dont believe anything and most of the believers will believe anything to make a argument. I am not convinced the UFOs are real or not over BBC1. I only believe what I can see in person since there are so many hoaxes out these days. I have seen a UFO like stated above, doesnt mean ET was driving or stopped to phone home. It could be a top secret military craft and the pilot needed to stop and take a P on the side of the road. The least likely is normally the most likely answer. I watch many video and documentary's on the subject and its hard to find true evidence that supports nor denies the existance. Everyone is either to left wing or right wing on the topic. :(

[Bandit]

That part of London is swarming with media agencies and post production houses. Soho is pretty much wall-to-wall with folks who would easily have been able to mock this up for a laugh.

I think it's a viral for Radio 1.

Or Filming new season of Dr. Who :D

[NightwishFan]

I love to look up UFO information but what makes it so difficult is that non believers dont believe anything and most of the believers will believe anything to make a argument.

I believe its possible but I also am very conservative to 'sightings' and other such nonsense.

[KiwiNZ]

Actually there has been many many encounters with civilans and military both that are documented. Roswell NM(1947) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident), Battle over LA(1942) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Los_Angeles) and Rendlesham RAF Base(1980) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesham_Forest_incident) just for starters.





"What has made the process of sorting out an answer to this difficult is that Pseudo Science and conspiracy and hoax is rife thus clouding the matter."

[Gremlinzzz]

Look at the life in a drop of water,this planet is full of life.
stands to reason other planets are to,for that matter the universe if full of life.:D

drop of water
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5FaWIvtBh4

Thought i saw one of those microscopic organisms building a space shuttle

[PC_load_letter]

I struggle to see intelligent lifeforms in my daily life on Earth let alone from somewhere else ;-)


LOL exactly my feelings. I was talking to my wife a few days ago about how uncommon 'common sense' is to the point that I doubted it being a sense not that it is uncommon.

As to the Aliens existence, some other intelligent life could exist in the galaxy. Where are they, well, we could be among the first ones in this galaxy, or maybe even the first. Vast distance is also huge factor that we can't communicate, as a wise man from the nineties once said "Distance is a long range filter, memory a flickering light" :D

[KiwiNZ]

Our nearest neighbour is Proxima Centauri, a Binary star with Alpha Centauri. It is on average 4.22 light years ( 39,900,000,000,000 Kilometers )from Earth.

Therefore it would take 4.22 years to travel at light speed. However given the Special relativity Theory postulated by Einstein this is impossible, The mass of an object increases as it's speed increases and this mass nears infinity when approaching Light speed. Therefore the amount of energy required to travel using a small craft would be enormous, thus the amount of fuel enormous.

Then of course there is life support material that is need to be carried thus increasing the mass and increasing the fuel load needed and so on .......

This is why I said this...

"3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .

4. If they are traveling vast distances and using enormous amounts of energy why would they not make themselves known and again if they are the
same Extraterrestrials why would they do this over and over again for no apparent reason ?"

[forrestcupp]

The hyperspace I was thinking of I guess was Babylon 5 style.I used to have an Intellivision game called Astrosmash, which was like a souped up Space Invaders. There was a button you could push to hyperspace, which would randomly teleport you to a different part of the screen if you were trapped. The only disadvantage was that you may randomly get teleported right into an asteroid and die.


"What has made the process of sorting out an answer to this difficult is that Pseudo Science and conspiracy and hoax is rife thus clouding the matter."Which is a perfect example of what I was saying in reply to that same point. There are testimonies, but those testimonies are hushed and the repeating of those testimonies is attributed to conspiracy theories and hoaxes. There could be excellent and undeniable evidence, and some people would just immediately dismiss it as a conspiracy theory or hoax.

[forrestcupp]

Our nearest neighbour is Proxima Centauri, a Binary star with Alpha Centauri. It is on average 4.22 light years ( 39,900,000,000,000 Kilometers )from Earth.

Therefore it would take 4.22 years to travel at light speed. However given the Special relativity Theory postulated by Einstein this is impossible, The mass of an object increases as it's speed increases and this mass nears infinity when approaching Light speed. Therefore the amount of energy required to travel using a small craft would be enormous, thus the amount of fuel enormous.
Which is why it would probably be necessary to use other means than traveling at or beyond light speed.

[Gremlinzzz]

They could be as near as our oceans:D

[KiwiNZ]

Which is a perfect example of what I was saying in reply to that same point. There are testimonies, but those testimonies are hushed and the repeating of those testimonies is attributed to conspiracy theories and hoaxes. There could be excellent and undeniable evidence, and some people would just immediately dismiss it as a conspiracy theory or hoax.

I made the following point....

"5. Given the level of motoring and surveillance that goes on Globally it is not plausible that any "visit" would be undetected or unverified.And given this
what is the motivation to keep these incidents if detected secret?"

Much of this equipment is in private, corporate, News media etc hands as well as many Governments. What would be the motivation to silence, intentionally discredit and classify
any/all occurrences ?

How would this be coordinated with all governments when almost any international consensus or cooperation is limited or fruitless ?

[Gremlinzzz]

They could be as near as our oceans:D

While it may seem hard to believe that ETs are living beneath our oceans, these types of accounts have turned up all over the world. Ocean-going UFOs have been seen in all of the seven seas, reaching back nearly a thousand years and continuing to the present day. With their ability to travel through the oceans and skies with ease, these cases show just how advanced the visitors are. Remember, most of our oceans remain unexplored—at least by humans:D

http://www.mysteryportals.com/Underwater_UFO_Base_in_S__California.html

[forrestcupp]

Why would they keep it a secret? There are a lot of possible reasons for that.

For one thing, maybe they want to keep it a secret because it is something that they themselves are secretly working on. When they were developing the stealth bomber/fighter, the general public didn't know about it. I'm sure there are a lot of bizarre government projects that they are trying to keep under wraps. But a good argument against this is why would they try to keep something a secret and then perform blatant events such as this?

Also, if they really are aliens, my previous point applies. In order to even get here, they would have to have technology far beyond ours. Since we have stealth aircraft that can lessen the ability for radar detection, it only makes sense that advanced alien technology would be able to do that or more. Maybe they have never actually been detected in official ways.

But if there are aliens and the governments do know about them, the obvious reason to keep it a secret is to prevent mass hysteria and panic. They've done this many times for things like nuclear testing, the Cuban Missile Crysis, and probably many other things we don't know about because it would scare the crap out of us.

[DangerOnTheRanger]

Our nearest neighbour is Proxima Centauri, a Binary star with Alpha Centauri. It is on average 4.22 light years ( 39,900,000,000,000 Kilometers )from Earth.

Therefore it would take 4.22 years to travel at light speed. However given the Special relativity Theory postulated by Einstein this is impossible, The mass of an object increases as it's speed increases and this mass nears infinity when approaching Light speed. Therefore the amount of energy required to travel using a small craft would be enormous, thus the amount of fuel enormous.

Then of course there is life support material that is need to be carried thus increasing the mass and increasing the fuel load needed and so on .......

This is why I said this...

"3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .

4. If they are traveling vast distances and using enormous amounts of energy why would they not make themselves known and again if they are the
same Extraterrestrials why would they do this over and over again for no apparent reason ?"

^This^.

Come on guys, nothing, nothing at all (not even aliens) can break the laws of physics. And if the lack of no reports was due to some sort of Half-Life scenario (kill all witnesses), we'd think something funny was going on by now, don't you think?

[Dry Lips]

A point I made in an earlier post in this thread: I believe people see something, but I also think that the reality behind the UFO phenomena isn't comprehended by most people.



Come on guys, nothing, nothing at all (not even aliens) can break the laws of physics.

I agree that the laws of physics can't be broken, but on the other hand, our understanding of the laws that governs this universe is still in its infancy. Just have a look at the development of quantum physics over the past few years and you'll know what I mean.

[forrestcupp]

A point I made in an earlier post in this thread: I believe people see something, but I also think that the reality behind the UFO phenomena isn't comprehended by most people. I agree. But that's something we probably can't talk about on here without getting in trouble. ;)




I agree that the laws of physics can't be broken, but on the other hand, our understanding of the laws that governs this universe is still in its infancy. Just have a look at the development of quantum physics over the past few years and you'll know what I mean.Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier.

[KiwiNZ]

Also, if they really are aliens, my previous point applies. In order to even get here, they would have to have technology far beyond ours. Since we have stealth aircraft that can lessen the ability for radar detection, it only makes sense that advanced alien technology would be able to do that or more. Maybe they have never actually been detected in official ways.

But if there are aliens and the governments do know about them, the obvious reason to keep it a secret is to prevent mass hysteria and panic. They've done this many times for things like nuclear testing, the Cuban Missile Crysis, and probably many other things we don't know about because it would scare the crap out of us.

If the Alien technology is such that they were invisible to our Technology then one would have to extrapolate that their technology is such that they would be always invisible to us. Therefore these sightings are false based on that premise.

Your second point there is an element of truth in that it would cause panic, however all Governments agree to to this veil over their existence? hardly plausible given the success for Global agreement is very low.

[Bandit]

Our nearest neighbour is Proxima Centauri, a Binary star with Alpha Centauri. It is on average 4.22 light years ( 39,900,000,000,000 Kilometers )from Earth.

Therefore it would take 4.22 years to travel at light speed. However given the Special relativity Theory postulated by Einstein this is impossible, The mass of an object increases as it's speed increases and this mass nears infinity when approaching Light speed. Therefore the amount of energy required to travel using a small craft would be enormous, thus the amount of fuel enormous.

Then of course there is life support material that is need to be carried thus increasing the mass and increasing the fuel load needed and so on .......

This is why I said this...

"3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .

4. If they are traveling vast distances and using enormous amounts of energy why would they not make themselves known and again if they are the
same Extraterrestrials why would they do this over and over again for no apparent reason ?"

I can see why this would give modern science a paradox. working under my model, mass is constant. The current model of physics trys to constitute gravity into the equation. Which under my model is replaced by pressure. Which allows the effect we feel as gravity and time to be manipulated by the pressure of space time over a given area. Using this model it allows the science of creating artificial gravity as well as the folding of space time to cover much larger distances. It also explains why UFO craft can "float" much like anti-gravity in mid air and also how the laws of motion can be isolated in a given area.

You keep saying large amounts of energy. Actually large amounts of energy are not required, a proper EM field can bend space time allowing the folding of space time. This creates a short cut through spacetime. So essentially your not having to move 4.2 light years to reach the next solar system, depending on the density of space time manipulated by a proper EM field. This distance can be anywhere from a few feet to only the distance of a few thousand miles. This would also explain why UFOs seem to streak off into space like a bolt of light. Outside the EM field it would appear this way. Inside the craft would seem like space moved very fast. When in fact the actual speed of the craft never changed. ;)

[Dragonbite]

Our nearest neighbour is Proxima Centauri, a Binary star with Alpha Centauri. It is on average 4.22 light years ( 39,900,000,000,000 Kilometers )from Earth.

Therefore it would take 4.22 years to travel at light speed. However given the Special relativity Theory postulated by Einstein this is impossible, The mass of an object increases as it's speed increases and this mass nears infinity when approaching Light speed. Therefore the amount of energy required to travel using a small craft would be enormous, thus the amount of fuel enormous.

Then of course there is life support material that is need to be carried thus increasing the mass and increasing the fuel load needed and so on .......

This is why I said this...

"3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .

4. If they are traveling vast distances and using enormous amounts of energy why would they not make themselves known and again if they are the
same Extraterrestrials why would they do this over and over again for no apparent reason ?"

Unless time has less of a meaning for them, or if life support would even be "required".

They could be technology-beings, similar but far advanced from our concpet of robots.

With no need for "life support" of the same type, or the same limitation of lifespans (could be virtually immortal by our standards) then those distances have less meaning.

Actually, due to the limitation of humankind I think that our "children" (robots, androids, whatever) will be what stretches across the galaxy, not our carbon-based bodies and eventually will take up its own form of sentience to evolve or continue man's "evolution" to something greater.

And, being mechanical, they may not be limited in form, either being able to specialize (like a UFO *is* the alien, not a craft) or transfer (upload/download) it's "essence" to the body that fits the deeds.

[pommie]

Originally Posted by KiwiNZ

3. If they are far away, given the Laws of Physics it would take a very very long time and an enormous amount of energy, refer Einstein's Theory .
Einstein also said that speed is relative, so with what do you compare the speed of an object, the case of the fly in an airplane comes to mind here, or how fast does a wheel travel, if the hub is doing 10kph the top of the wheel is doing 20kph and the bottom is not moving at all :smile: , you are, at the moment, stationary in your chair, but wait, if you are on the equator you are traveling at approx 1000mph around the planet, and the planet is traveling around the sun, and the sun etc etc, so there is nothing stationary to base speed on, its all relative, and speaking of that theory (of relativity),

if speed of light is constant how come it cannot escape a black hole, two possibilities,

1, the speed of light is not constant, meaning the theory of relativity is wrong, therefore physics that are are based on it are wrong, and faster than light travel is a possibility.

2, the speed of light is constant, meaning the theory of relativity is right, therefore a different (unknown) set of physics must apply in a black hole and with more than one set of physics, faster than light travel is a possibility.

So taking black holes into account, faster than light travel is possible :D

I find it easier to think that it is possible to travel "faster than light" than to think we can bend/warp/fold space.

Cheers David

[KiwiNZ]

Einstein also said that speed is relative, so with what do you compare the speed of an object, the case of the fly in an airplane comes to mind here, or how fast does a wheel travel, if the hub is doing 10kph the top of the wheel is doing 20kph and the bottom is not moving at all :smile: , you are, at the moment, stationary in your chair, but wait, if you are on the equator you are traveling at approx 1000mph around the planet, and the planet is traveling around the sun, and the sun etc etc, so there is nothing stationary to base speed on, its all relative, and speaking of that theory (of relativity),

if speed of light is constant how come it cannot escape a black hole, two possibilities,

1, the speed of light is not constant, meaning the theory of relativity is wrong, therefore physics that are are based on it are wrong, and faster than light travel is a possibility.

2, the speed of light is constant, meaning the theory of relativity is right, therefore a different (unknown) set of physics must apply in a black hole and with more than one set of physics, faster than light travel is a possibility.

So taking black holes into account, faster than light travel is possible :D

I find it easier to think that it is possible to travel "faster than light" than to think we can bend/warp/fold space.

Cheers David

The speed of light is not affected in a Black hole the direction of light is. If light travels in particles it can be diverted and it's speed remains constant, reference reflection and refraction. The compact mass of a Black hole creates sufficient force at the event horizon absorbing all light, no light is reflected that the Black hole effect.

[pommie]

My highlighting,

Since stellar black holes are small (only a few to a few tens of kilometers in diameter), and light that would allow us to see them cannot escape, a black hole floating alone in space would be hard, if not impossible, to see in the visual spectrum.
from here, http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l2/black_holes.html

Sure there are some theories on why light cannot escape, but they are theories, the popular one states that the speed stays the same but the frequency shifts down to the point we cannot see it, another one states that light just circles around and returns to the center, yet x-rays are not affected by these theoretical explanations and can escape.
I do not claim to know anything about the physics of these things, I just ask questions and get fed up with the answer that I should just accept the theories given, well where would we be if Galileo had just accepted the general consensus on physics.

From Wikipedia, (cut and paste)


Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when a large majority of philosophers and astronomers still subscribed to the geocentric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocentric) view that the Earth is at the centre of the universe. After 1610, when he began publicly supporting the heliocentric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentric) view, which placed the Sun at the centre of the universe, he met with bitter opposition from some philosophers and clerics, and two of the latter eventually denounced him to the Roman Inquisition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Inquisition) early in 1615. In February 1616, although he had been cleared of any offence, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture",[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei#cite_note-contrary_to_scripture-9) and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_Concerning_the_Two_Chief_World_Systems), published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest.


Cheers David

[Paqman]

if speed of light is constant how come it cannot escape a black hole

The speed of light in general isn't constant, Einstein never said it was. It can be affected by the medium it travels in. The figure given in Einstein's equations for c is the speed of light in a perfect vacuum (which would be a constant).

Strong gravitational fields will bend the path of light just like anything else (because they warp spacetime itself, so the light can't help travelling in a curved line). A large enough gravitational field will warp spacetime to the degree that there is no line that a light ray could travel along that would escape the event horizon. It doesn't matter how fast you travel if every direction leads back to where you came from.

As for the possibility of faster than light travel, my guess is that our current understanding of physics is correct and that it is indeed impossible. It's certainly an excellent answer to the Fermi paradox. If alien civilisations are reasonably abundant, then a good answer for why we haven't been contacted is that it's very, very difficult and expensive to cross interstellar distances with anything other than photons.

[pommie]

The speed of light in general isn't constant, Einstein never said it was. It can be affected by the medium it travels in. The figure given in Einstein's equations for c is the speed of light in a perfect vacuum (which would be a constant).

Strong gravitational fields will bend the path of light just like anything else (because they warp spacetime itself, so the light can't help travelling in a curved line). A large enough gravitational field will warp spacetime to the degree that there is no line that a light ray could travel along that would escape the event horizon. It doesn't matter how fast you travel if every direction leads back to where you came from.

As for the possibility of faster than light travel, my guess is that our current understanding of physics is correct and that it is indeed impossible. It's certainly an excellent answer to the Fermi paradox. If alien civilisations are reasonably abundant, then a good answer for why we haven't been contacted is that it's very, very difficult and expensive to cross interstellar distances with anything other than photons.

But what happens to the light being generated within the black hole, it would be going straight up/out, that would mean, according to the present laws of physics, that it must be slowed down to a stop, which according to those same laws cannot happen, then go backwards, interesting thought, the speed of light in reverse wheeeeeeeeeeee...splat, oops a singularity.
As x-rays are part of the same spectrum as light, just a different wavelength, how come they can escape in abundance, which is why they (x-rays) are the only way of 'seeing' a black hole.

Cheers David

[cpmman]

Do they have any more of those luminous frisbees in the pound shop?

[Paqman]

But what happens to the light being generated within the black hole, it would be going straight up/out

No, it would follow a curved path, because all the space around the black hole is so insanely curved. At the bottom of a gravity well that deep there would be no straight line paths out from it. That's pretty much the definition of being on the wrong side of the event horizon. If there is a path free of the black hole, even for a photon at light speed, then you're not within the horizon.

The x-rays emitted by rotating black holes don't come from within the horizon. IIRC they're caused by the strong gravitational pull heating gases that are falling towards the black hole to the point where they emit x-rays. They form "jets" of radiation aligned with the axis of rotation, originating at a point in space some distance from the actual black hole. Basically all the commotion that the black hole causes as it sucks things in can create effects that we can see, even if we can't see the black hole itself.

This pic probably shows it better than I can explain:

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/eso1028a.jpg

Hawking radiation is another way black holes emit radiation. It's caused by particle-antiparticle pairs being split up right on the edge of the event horizon. In normal space the pairs would re-cancel each other out almost immediately, but if there's a black hole to pull one of them away then the other gets to stick around.

[Bandit]

Einstein also said that speed is relative, so with what do you compare the speed of an object, the case of the fly in an airplane comes to mind here, or how fast does a wheel travel, if the hub is doing 10kph the top of the wheel is doing 20kph and the bottom is not moving at all :smile: , you are, at the moment, stationary in your chair, but wait, if you are on the equator you are traveling at approx 1000mph around the planet, and the planet is traveling around the sun, and the sun etc etc, so there is nothing stationary to base speed on, its all relative, and speaking of that theory (of relativity),

if speed of light is constant how come it cannot escape a black hole, two possibilities,

1, the speed of light is not constant, meaning the theory of relativity is wrong, therefore physics that are are based on it are wrong, and faster than light travel is a possibility.

2, the speed of light is constant, meaning the theory of relativity is right, therefore a different (unknown) set of physics must apply in a black hole and with more than one set of physics, faster than light travel is a possibility.

So taking black holes into account, faster than light travel is possible :D

I find it easier to think that it is possible to travel "faster than light" than to think we can bend/warp/fold space.

Cheers David

This was a very good post to read. Thank you David for taking the time to post this.


Speaking of Light and the speed of. I believe that light can only travel at a fixed speed. Hence the speed of light. But like you stated. The Speed of Light is relatives to the observers point of view. Noticed I said observer(s). I will get back around to this in a moment. :)
Now one thing everyone does agree on is that Energy has Mass. Light is made up of Partials called Photons, Photons have mass. Thus Light does have Mass. Ok I will point out I do not believe in Gravity or Gravitons for that matter. I believe Gravity is an effect of Spacetime pushing inwards on objects in space. Being that Mass does infact bend space time, that the pressure from space time causes the effect we observe as Gravity.
Thus getting back to the above, if someone is outside a large gravitational field and someone is inside the gravitational field the speed of light can be observed at two different speeds. This actually happens all the time with Satellites in Space and computers here on earth. Were the satellites loose ruffly about ~0.5 second a year. This is why all satellites are up dated by the World Clock in Denver CO. If not your GPS which runs off time not location per se would be way off.

The above also gives reason to why light can not escape a black whole. The Density of the object at the center is so great that Spacetime is bent at such a sharp angle that virtually nothing can escape while its active.

I honestly believe Albert would have come to the same conclusions if he had more time before his passing. :(

Now talking about traveling faster then light, I dont have much to say on this as I believe it would be suicide. We have seen what car sized meteors traveling at 15,000 to 45,000MPH have done to earth in the pass. Huge explosives that almost wiped everything off the face of the planet multiple times. Now picuture a hand full of gravel loose in space. There is tons of loose debris everywhere. Its not a clean vacuum but a dirty dusty one. If we jet along through space trying to travel at or close to the speed of light 2 things are sure to happen. 1) Our ship will look like the a pepsi can shot with a shotgun with bird shots.. Full of wholes or 2) We manage to hit something hard enough to split an atom and set off a nuclear explosion. So Suicide.. :D

[sarcasmrules]

Let's hope no one aboard the UFOs are trolls ;)

[Bandit]

Let's hope no one aboard the UFOs are trolls ;)

LOL I just hope they dont come to build a intergalactic road through here.. :KS

[GWBouge]

LOL I just hope they dont come to build a intergalactic road through here.. :KS

That's an interesting thought ...
Intergalactic surveyors. They're just hanging around, deciding whether or not they should ask us if we mind a bunch of noise in our backyard. "Psh, they've barely figured out how to break off their own planet. Screw'em, make it 4 lanes!"

[Chronon]

Now one thing everyone does agree on is that Energy has Mass. Light is made up of Partials called Photons, Photons have mass. Thus Light does have Mass.
Actually, this is not the point of view of modern physics. Photons are not indivisible particles of light. In fact, there is no such particle. The closest you can come to this concept is a wavepacket. The notion of quantization of the electromagnetic field does not lead directly to the idea of a particle. It has to do with the field's energy being divisible into basic increments called quanta (which you could call photons, but which don't have any particle-like properties). Even if you imagine that a macroscopic field is made up of photons, the photons would not have any mass. Relativistic energy is given by E = Sqrt[(pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2)]. If we suppose a particle called a photon, m=0 and the relativistic energy is simply given by E=pc.


Ok I will point out I do not believe in Gravity or Gravitons for that matter. I believe Gravity is an effect of Spacetime pushing inwards on objects in space. Being that Mass does infact bend space time, that the pressure from space time causes the effect we observe as Gravity.
In relativity, objects in free-fall follow "straight lines". The effect of energy distributed in space-time is to bend and warp spacetime itself, so that these "straight lines" (or geodesics) become curved when compared to flat (empty) space.


Thus getting back to the above, if someone is outside a large gravitational field and someone is inside the gravitational field the speed of light can be observed at two different speeds. This actually happens all the time with Satellites in Space and computers here on earth. Were the satellites loose ruffly about ~0.5 second a year. This is why all satellites are up dated by the World Clock in Denver CO. If not your GPS which runs off time not location per se would be way off.Actually, all observers will see light traveling at the same speed (which is why the speed of light is called a constant). They will observe gravitation Doppler shift that is associated with relative time dilation between two frames of reference.


The above also gives reason to why light can not escape a black whole. The Density of the object at the center is so great that Spacetime is bent at such a sharp angle that virtually nothing can escape while its active.
The escape velocity is greater than the speed of light, so according to our current knowledge of physics, nothing can escape.


I honestly believe Albert would have come to the same conclusions if he had more time before his passing. :(

Now talking about traveling faster then light, I dont have much to say on this as I believe it would be suicide. We have seen what car sized meteors traveling at 15,000 to 45,000MPH have done to earth in the pass. Huge explosives that almost wiped everything off the face of the planet multiple times. Now picuture a hand full of gravel loose in space. There is tons of loose debris everywhere. Its not a clean vacuum but a dirty dusty one. If we jet along through space trying to travel at or close to the speed of light 2 things are sure to happen. 1) Our ship will look like the a pepsi can shot with a shotgun with bird shots.. Full of wholes or 2) We manage to hit something hard enough to split an atom and set off a nuclear explosion. So Suicide.. :D
According to our best understanding, it is physically possible for any massive object to travel at the speed of light. Likewise, it is impossible for a massless "object" to travel at any other speed than the speed of light.

[Chronon]

LOL I just hope they dont come to build a intergalactic road through here.. :KS

Damned Vogons!! :popcorn:

[Bandit]

I am glad to see someone got my joke. :)

But I have some arguments based on your statements if I may.


Actually, this is not the point of view of modern physics. Photons are not indivisible particles of light. In fact, there is no such particle.

Photons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon)



The closest you can come to this concept is a wavepacket. The notion of quantization of the electromagnetic field does not lead directly to the idea of a particle. It has to do with the field's energy being divisible into basic increments called quanta (which you could call photons, but which don't have any particle-like properties). Even if you imagine that a macroscopic field is made up of photons, the photons would not have any mass. Relativistic energy is given by E = Sqrt[(pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2)]. If we suppose a particle called a photon, m=0 and the relativistic energy is simply given by E=pc.

The equation E = mc2 indicates that energy always exhibits relativistic mass in whatever form the energy takes.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence)

There for if light has energy, then there must be something preset in it that contains mass. Thus the Photon does have mass.



In relativity, objects in free-fall follow "straight lines". The effect of energy distributed in space-time is to bend and warp spacetime itself, so that these "straight lines" (or geodesics) become curved when compared to flat (empty) space.
Actually, all observers will see light traveling at the same speed (which is why the speed of light is called a constant). They will observe gravitation Doppler shift that is associated with relative time dilation between two frames of reference.
The escape velocity is greater than the speed of light, so according to our current knowledge of physics, nothing can escape.

1) On Doppler shift, that part is correct. We are using this to find stars now to find objects orbiting them in hope of finding other earth like solar systems.
2) But the speed of light isnt constant. Time manipulates the speed of light. This is becoming a hard concept for many to grasp. I will attempt to explain again. If per say here on earth we see the speed of light at ~186,282 Miles/ps. OK lets say someone is right on the edge of a black wholes event horizon. When they shoot a light beam from bow to stern of their ship. The light will travel at the SOL given speed (~186,282 Miles/ps). That is how they are seeing it. But if we are at a safe distance from the black whole, the light beam on the ship will craw at such a slow speed that it could take many years for that beam of light to reach bow to stern of that ship for us. This is due the huge amount of pressure from spacetime (Gravitational field) slowing time down near the event horizon to a craw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_horizon).



According to our best understanding, it is physically possible for any massive object to travel at the speed of light. Likewise, it is impossible for a massless "object" to travel at any other speed than the speed of light.
I cant argue that, I never said we couldnt. I just said it just wasnt safe.. :)

[Gremlinzzz]

Theres a big rock heading are way should get here by November!
the asteroids name is YU55,if this object should hit us,it would explode with the force of 65,000 atomic bombs.so far it should miss us lets hope it doesn't wobble and change course:D

[Bandit]

Theres a big rock heading are way should get here by November!
the asteroids name is YU55,if this object should hit us,it would explode with the force of 65,000 atomic bombs.so far it should miss us lets hope it doesn't wobble and change course:D

Ahh Frak me.. And everyone calls me paranoid and crazy for trying to build my own spacecraft.. :guitar:

Just think if it was to have also hit the moon. We would live hell before extinction..

We should start launching nukes now and explode them before impact to hopefully nudge it away..


Although classified as a potentially hazardous object, 2005 YU55 poses no threat of an Earth collision over at least the next 100 years. However, this will be the closest approach to date by an object this large that we know about in advance and an event of this type will not happen again until 2028 when asteroid (153814) 2001 WN5 will pass to within 0.6 lunar distances.
Well that gives me enough time if we can make it past Dec 21 2012...

[Gremlinzzz]

'Space station' found on Mars
A GOOGLE geek has found what he believes is a 'space station' on Mars.:)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/ufos/3615234/Space-station-found-on-Mars.html

[Bandit]

'Space station' found on Mars
A GOOGLE geek has found what he believes is a 'space station' on Mars.:)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/ufos/3615234/Space-station-found-on-Mars.html

Interesting I agree, but its in the area that it could be frozen ice. IMHO anything metal on Mars for any given period of time if going to take a huge sand blasting and would most likely look very shinny from space, not so much white. IMHO Good post tho. :)

[jrusso2]

Saw some clouds and birds and some lens flare where is the ufo?

Welcome to earth people

[Bandit]

Welcome to earth people

EARTH!! I knew I should have made that left turn at Albuquerque!

[pommie]

Intergalactic space is about one hydrogen atom per cubic mile, so no resistance to speed, gravitational forces are next to none, and what there is would be counteracted by gravitational forces from all round.
Now place a spaceship using some form of limitless fuel (think nuclear reactor, ~40 years between fuel stops) with a continuous acceleration of 1g, now let it lose from a deep space base, pointed between galaxies so as to stay in intergalactic space,
1g = 32ft per sec/per sec so G=32
1 year = 31,557,600 seconds so T=31,557,600
1 mile = 5,280ft so D=5,280

The ships speed at the end of one year would be (GxT) /D = 191,258.18mps and the speed of light is 186,000mps.

The laws of physics state "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so as long as the propulsion engine keeps firing it must accelerate, as there is effectively no resistance to motion.

Now I fully realize that for the person on the ship time would slow down and a heap of other effects, but, and it is a big but, to someone on the deep space base the ship would be traveling away from them in excess of the speed of light.
And at the end of the theoretical spaceships fuel supply of 40 years it would be doing 7,658,327mps :o

So Aliens from another Galaxy is possible, after all ET phoned somewhere.

Cheers David

[DawieS]

1g = 32ft per sec/per sec so G=32
1 year = 31,557,600 seconds so T=31,557,600
1 mile = 5,280ft so D=5,280

Aahh, then this is why the UFO's picked on London! They wanted to see if it will ever be possible to teach you pommies to go METRIC !!!:grin:

[pommie]

Aahh, then this is why the UFO's picked on London! They wanted to see if it will ever be possible to teach you pommies to go METRIC !!!:grin:

:) been in Australia for 46 years now ;p

Believe it or not it is easier to workout that particular equation in Imperial that Metric, besides it must confuse the hell out of ET and his pals.

Cheers David

[ikt]

Lunatics! :rolleyes:


They might be highly trained humans, but they're still humans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

and humans are fallible.

[forrestcupp]

But I have some arguments based on your statements if I may.


Photons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon)

From the same article you linked to:

The photon is currently understood to be strictly massless, but this is an experimental question. If the photon is not a strictly massless particle, it would not move at the exact speed of light in vacuum, c. Its speed would be lower and depend on its frequency. Relativity would be unaffected by this; the so-called speed of light, c, would then not be the actual speed at which light moves, but a constant of nature which is the maximum speed that any object could theoretically attain in space-time.Photons are massless, which is why it's probably impossible for anything with mass to reach that speed.

On that topic, this article is pretty interesting (http://www.space.com/694-blazing-speed-fastest-stuff-universe.html) about Jupiter sized plasma blobs that are traveling across the universe at 99.9% the speed of light.

[Bandit]

From the same article you linked to:
Photons are massless, which is why it's probably impossible for anything with mass to reach that speed.

On that topic, this article is pretty interesting (http://www.space.com/694-blazing-speed-fastest-stuff-universe.html) about Jupiter sized plasma blobs that are traveling across the universe at 99.9% the speed of light.

Yea I am aware they say they are massless. I just posted the link since he stated they didnt exist. But I also dont believe they are massless. Like how could any massless object bounce off an object. Massless part is just one of those crazy claims the just doesnt pan out. :D

Like how they try to say that light goes into a black whole due to a polarity shift. LOL cant change the polarity of something that doesnt have mass. So this part of science is full of constant contradictions.

[DangerOnTheRanger]

I can see why this would give modern science a paradox. working under my model, mass is constant. The current model of physics trys to constitute gravity into the equation. Which under my model is replaced by pressure. Which allows the effect we feel as gravity and time to be manipulated by the pressure of space time over a given area. Using this model it allows the science of creating artificial gravity as well as the folding of space time to cover much larger distances. It also explains why UFO craft can "float" much like anti-gravity in mid air and also how the laws of motion can be isolated in a given area.

You keep saying large amounts of energy. Actually large amounts of energy are not required, a proper EM field can bend space time allowing the folding of space time. This creates a short cut through spacetime. So essentially your not having to move 4.2 light years to reach the next solar system, depending on the density of space time manipulated by a proper EM field. This distance can be anywhere from a few feet to only the distance of a few thousand miles. This would also explain why UFOs seem to streak off into space like a bolt of light. Outside the EM field it would appear this way. Inside the craft would seem like space moved very fast. When in fact the actual speed of the craft never changed. ;)



When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.


Please provide some equations explaining how your "model" works.



Like how they try to say that light goes into a black whole due to a polarity shift. LOL cant change the polarity of something that doesnt have mass. So this part of science is full of constant contradictions.

So, you've never heard of Electromagnetism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism)?

[Gremlinzzz]

The back end of a black hole is a white hole which explains why the black hole doesn't just explode and rip the universe apart:)
A white hole, in general relativity, is a hypothetical region of spacetime which cannot be entered from the outside, but from which matter and light may escape. In this sense it is the reverse of a black hole, which can be entered from the outside, but from which nothing, including light, may escape. (However, it is theoretically possible for a traveler to enter a rotating black hole, avoid the singularity, and travel into a rotating white hole which allows the traveler to escape into another universe.[1]) White holes appear in the theory of eternal black holes. In addition to a black hole region in the future, such a solution of the Einstein equations has a white hole region in its past.[2] However, this region does not exist for black holes that have formed through gravitational collapse, nor are there any known physical processes through which a white hole could be formed.

Like black holes, white holes have properties like mass, charge, and angular momentum. They attract matter like any other mass, but objects falling towards a white hole would never actually reach the white hole's event horizon (though in the case of the maximally extended Schwarzschild solution, discussed below, the white hole event horizon in the past becomes a black hole event horizon in the future, so any object falling towards it will eventually reach the black hole horizon).

In quantum mechanics, the black hole emits Hawking radiation, and so can come to thermal equilibrium with a gas of radiation. Since a thermal equilibrium state is time reversal invariant, Stephen Hawking argued that the time reverse of a black hole in thermal equilibrium is again a black hole in thermal equilibrium.[3] This implies that black holes and white holes are the same object. The Hawking radiation from an ordinary black hole is then identified with the white hole emission. Hawking's semi-classical argument is reproduced in a quantum mechanical AdS/CFT treatment,[4] where a black hole in anti-de Sitter space is described by a thermal gas in a gauge theory, whose time reversal is the same as itself.
If Aliens used this for traveling, there reach in the universe would be immeasurable.

[Bandit]

The back end of a black hole is a white hole which explains why the black hole doesn't just explode and rip the universe apart:)
.....................

Thats actually theoretical. Many think that its a majic tunnel (Hollywood movies ftw), when in fact its just another round object like any other planet or star. The only catch is that its mass has increased, yet the volume it was taking up as decreased. (p = m/V where p is the Density, m is Mass over V for Volume.) The higher the density of an object the more it bends space time. This effect can be observed with a beach ball in the water. The beach ball being very very light in density barely bends the top of the water, yet if you was to take that same mass and condense it to 1/3rd size. It would leave a deeper indention in the water. Now that is just a example and nothing sinks in space, only spacetime is bent. Black Holes actually have a north and south pole to them and these can easily been seen in xrays taken of them. Here is an example.
http://regmedia.co.uk/2006/07/27/dusty_blackhole.jpg

Edit: Watch some of Stevens theory's, that moron also thinks that mater is destroyed and lost forever when it goes into a black whole. He obviously doesnt understand how infinity works, based on his theory we wouldn't be here now. Black Holes are essential for the constant Life, Death and Rebirth of our Universe ever single day. :)

[Gremlinzzz]

There here!cnn was covering a sand storm:D
AMAZING FOOTAGE - UFO's Near Dust Storm Phoenix Arizona USA 6th July 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ygrHIWceas


Across The Universe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN9n1bAahg4

[Bandit]

There here!cnn was covering a sand storm:D
AMAZING FOOTAGE - UFO's Near Dust Storm Phoenix Arizona USA 6th July 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ygrHIWceas


Across The Universe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN9n1bAahg4

Excellent videos, pretty sure CNN isnt trying to blow smoke up our butts..
Pretty dang sure their not US Gov experimental craft. All aircraft's in testing or not are required to have red/green lights on each side to designate Port and Starboard of the craft. These do not.

[wolfen69]

There here!cnn was covering a sand storm:D
AMAZING FOOTAGE - UFO's Near Dust Storm Phoenix Arizona USA 6th July 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ygrHIWceas


UFO's in Phoenix dust storm DEBUNKED (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78JTCWS8nBc&feature=related)

[Bandit]

UFO's in Phoenix dust storm DEBUNKED (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78JTCWS8nBc&feature=related)

Good looking out. Found this video also of them. Notice it does show the blinking red/green aviation lights I mentioned. Just goes to show how easy it is to trick the eyes in proper lighting even unintentionally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFraqmkyC5g&NR=1

But yea these are just airplanes.

[Paqman]

The green and red lights on the wingtips are steady, they don't blink. What aircraft do have is a blinking anti-col light on the top (generally red). However, military aircraft can and do turn them off if flying under tactical conditions, and I believe civil aviation rules state that they aren't required during daytime, although they do tend to be used. Certainly at low altitude or on approach they'd be on.

[Bandit]

The green and red lights on the wingtips are steady, they don't blink. What aircraft do have is a blinking anti-col light on the top (generally red). However, military aircraft can and do turn them off if flying under tactical conditions, and I believe civil aviation rules state that they aren't required during daytime, although they do tend to be used. Certainly at low altitude or on approach they'd be on.

They may be steady. I havent had to watch them since i was in the Navy almost 5 years ago now. hehe.. But you do agree that Tactical Conditions does not mean Pheonix AZ.

[Gremlinzzz]

If your not concern yet this might do it!
UFO mainstream news coverage MASS SIGHTINGS WORLDWIDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4izhwg3Mo

[Paqman]

They may be steady. I havent had to watch them since i was in the Navy almost 5 years ago now. hehe.. But you do agree that Tactical Conditions does not mean Pheonix AZ.

No certainly not over a city, but plenty of other places you might see them on routine training flights with no lights on. I'm just saying that you can't always count on them to be identifiable by their navigation lights.

[KiwiNZ]

Ghosty's and Ghouly's and long legged beasties
And things that go bump in the night.:P

[Tibuda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSRwzP23ifI
here's a video of humans interacting with lots of aliens

is that proof?

[Gremlinzzz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSRwzP23ifI
here's a video of humans interacting with lots of aliens

is that proof?

yeah its proof that the Muppet,s exist:D

[koleoptero]

In all the vastness and expanse of the Universe its so big no human mind can Imagine or comprehend there is one little speck of dust no not dust one atom called earth where life can exist come on lets be real!Are we so Arrogant that we think we are all that is or can exist in this immeasurable Huge vast limitless Universe where billions upon billions of galaxy's containing millions of stars with uncountable amounts of planets yet we are the only ones?

The Universe is not limitless.

And since we're so small and insignificant why do we have to have some alien race watching us or experimenting on us or just toying with us?

I say those lights in the video are spirits, ghosts, and the video is proof that ghosts don't come out only in the night.

[MonolithImmortal]

If your not concern yet this might do it!
UFO mainstream news coverage MASS SIGHTINGS WORLDWIDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4izhwg3Mo
What ever caused all those different sightings, thats a pretty cool video. The Spiral in Norway is really cool looking. If that really is some kind of vehicle, the way it disappeared into the black hole type opening made me think of a jump to slip-space of some kind.

I remember the Jerusalem UFO when it happened. Kind of freaked me out when I watched all the videos together and they were all perfectly in unison.

[Dry Lips]

What ever caused all those different sightings, thats a pretty cool video. The Spiral in Norway is really cool looking. If that really is some kind of vehicle, the way it disappeared into the black hole type opening made me think of a jump to slip-space of some kind.


I know a thing or two about that spiral. It is impressive, but I think that one has a natural explanation. I remember the newspaper wrote quite a lot about this. The light could be seen in the eastern sky. Some time before this, a similar sight was seen... Basically it was a Russian submarines testing out an experimental missile. My guess is that it involves some kind of plasma technology, making a “hole” in the air in order to reduce friction from the molecules in the air. It is a known technology... The spiral that you saw would be plasma.

As I've said before, I do believe people occasionally see something that hasn't got a natural explanation, but this isn't such an instance, even if it was a strange sight.

---
edit: the part about plasma technology is pure speculation on my part. I just checked the online newspapers,
and they were basically saying that rockets that get out of control and start to spin, can produce such a spiral. Also the Russians had sent out a message on the maritime warning system "Navtex" about a rocket launch in the time that this phenomena was seen, so it is pretty obvious that this has a natural explanation.
Don't believe what you see on YouTube, it's cheap sensationalism!

[Dry Lips]

More about the "spiral":


The mysterious phenomenon seen over northern Norway was a failed rocket launch from the submarine "Dmitry Donskoi" in the White Sea by Arkhangelsk. After first denying it for nearly one day, the Russian defense minister finally admitted that a new intercontinental ballistic missile had failed for the eighth time.
Quote translated from:
http://nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/nordland/1.6911841

[Paqman]

Ghosty's and Ghouly's and long legged beasties
And things that go bump in the night.:P

Exactly. See also goblins/succubi/vampires for more on the same theme. "Aliens" are a distinctly human phenomenon, going back as far as you care to look.

[MonolithImmortal]

I know a thing or two about that spiral. It is impressive, but I think that one has a natural explanation. I remember the newspaper wrote quite a lot about this. The light could be seen in the eastern sky. Some time before this, a similar sight was seen... Basically it was a Russian submarines testing out an experimental missile. My guess is that it involves some kind of plasma technology, making a “hole” in the air in order to reduce friction from the molecules in the air. It is a known technology... The spiral that you saw would be plasma.

As I've said before, I do believe people occasionally see something that hasn't got a natural explanation, but this isn't such an instance, even if it was a strange sight.

---
edit: the part about plasma technology is pure speculation on my part. I just checked the online newspapers,
and they were basically saying that rockets that get out of control and start to spin, can produce such a spiral. Also the Russians had sent out a message on the maritime warning system "Navtex" about a rocket launch in the time that this phenomena was seen, so it is pretty obvious that this has a natural explanation.
Don't believe what you see on YouTube, it's cheap sensationalism!
That's still pretty awesome. I don't particularly care what caused it, it was just cool to look at.

[Dry Lips]

That's still pretty awesome. I don't particularly care what caused it, it was just cool to look at.

All right, I agree the phenomena was pretty impressive. ;) And many people were quite flabbergasted about it for a some time afterwards too...

[Bandit]

If your not concern yet this might do it!
UFO mainstream news coverage MASS SIGHTINGS WORLDWIDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4izhwg3Mo
Very good video.
There have been studies from people who have been abducted that lead to believe that there are actually separate waring factions of aliens. Some that want to help humanity and others who wish to enslave us. What ever a person believes just keep in mind that there is always two sides of everything in the universe.



The Universe is not limitless.
Hello, Mr Math would like to speak to you. :)


More about the "spiral":

Quote translated from:
http://nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/nordland/1.6911841
I concur, I seen the reports of it also and from first hand experience with missiles and rockets in general it was a missile that lost control. One of the dead give always is the outward spiral, notice when the rocket/missle start running low on fuel that the spiral lost momentum and fell apart.



People speculate all the time why they if they are out there, why wait so long to show themselves. Well possible one of the simplest answers is that as we grow as a culture, we grow in numbers, but also grow weaker. Thousand years ago, everyone would have picked up every sword, stick or stone they could get their hands on and be defiant. These days, people have grown weak, no one works manually hardly anymore. Machines do our work for us. We also find ourselves more afraid of fighting. With the military under their control for the most part, were would the citizens of the world stand.

Food for thought..

[pommie]

The Universe is not limitless.
snip

Could you please inform us as to what is on the other side of your limits, and being just a tiny speck living on a tiny speck, in a tiny speck of a Galaxy in this Infinite Universe does not worry me whatsoever, I am alive and that is all that is important.


If light is massless how come it is affected by gravity and cannot escape a black hole, to many questions and not enough proof, plenty of theories, but no proof.

A quick question about UFO sightings, think of the time line for the sightings, most during the 40s, 50s and 60s, and the numbers drop from then, now think of the timeline for cameras, in the 40s and 50s not many had cameras, in the 60s the number increased, and think of today, every mobile phone has a camera, yet the sighting numbers are down compared to 50~60years ago, and what sightings there are, are only caught by, at best, a handful of cameras. :confused:

I am sure (my opinion only) there are other intelligent species out there, but I do not believe that we have been visited any more that I believe in ghosts, pixie's, faeries, dragons, magic etc, ect.

oh, to save anyone asking I am also an Athiest.

Cheers David

[KiwiNZ]

Could you please inform us as to what is on the other side of your limits, and being just a tiny speck living on a tiny speck, in a tiny speck of a Galaxy in this Infinite Universe does not worry me whatsoever, I am alive and that is all that is important.


If light is massless how come it is affected by gravity and cannot escape a black hole, to many questions and not enough proof, plenty of theories, but no proof.

A quick question about UFO sightings, think of the time line for the sightings, most during the 40s, 50s and 60s, and the numbers drop from then, now think of the timeline for cameras, in the 40s and 50s not many had cameras, in the 60s the number increased, and think of today, every mobile phone has a camera, yet the sighting numbers are down compared to 50~60years ago, and what sightings there are, are only caught by, at best, a handful of cameras. :confused:

I am sure (my opinion only) there are other intelligent species out there, but I do not believe that we have been visited any more that I believe in ghosts, pixie's, faeries, dragons, magic etc, ect.

oh, to save anyone asking I am also an Athiest.

Cheers David

Light travels in both particles and waves and is influenced by "items" and environment .

Search , Schrodinger and De Broglie

[koleoptero]

Hello, Mr Math would like to speak to you. :)
If he'd like to then he can. No need to announce him first.

Could you please inform us as to what is on the other side of your limits, and being just a tiny speck living on a tiny speck, in a tiny speck of a Galaxy in this Infinite Universe does not worry me whatsoever, I am alive and that is all that is important.
Once again the universe is not infinite. And there's no limit to it either. Kind of hard to imagine but there are no straight lines in the universe. If you start from a point of it and go straight you eventually will return to that point again. I can't explain it further as it's been some years since I've read about these theories.

And my point was they're only theories, we can't test them since the universe is in fact so much larger than us that we can only observe a small piece of it.


If light is massless how come it is affected by gravity and cannot escape a black hole, to many questions and not enough proof, plenty of theories, but no proof.
Light isn't massless, and it's been proven experimentally.

[forrestcupp]

A quick question about UFO sightings, think of the time line for the sightings, most during the 40s, 50s and 60s, and the numbers drop from then, now think of the timeline for cameras, in the 40s and 50s not many had cameras, in the 60s the number increased, and think of today, every mobile phone has a camera, yet the sighting numbers are down compared to 50~60years ago, and what sightings there are, are only caught by, at best, a handful of cameras. :confused:So that's just good proof that for some reason they had more interest in us then than now. ;)


oh, to save anyone asking I am also an Athiest.
What the heck does that have to do with anything? If I'm not allowed to talk about being a Christian, then why can people talk about being atheists all the time?



Light isn't massless, and it's been proven experimentally.
Where is that proof? It's generally accepted that light is massless.

[Bandit]

UFOs predate BC, here are some pics pre-1940s:
I know some of these are biblical, but the point is the paintings. Please dont discuss any political or religious point of this because I am showing only for a historical point of view...

https://www.forbiddenhistory.info/files/madonna-stgiovannino-palazzo-vecchio.jpghttp://

http://xfacts.com/old/maryufo2_compressed.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/panicale_compressed.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/ufocrociate_compressed.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/crivell2_compressed.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/deg2.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/ovni2.jpg

The point is that UFOs are not a current fad, they have been around since early caveman shown in many cave drawings and described by many ancient cultures.

[abrianb]

It sounds very windy in the video. Wind rushing over the microphone. Birds beating their wings as if in a heavy wind. Clouds moving very slowly, as if a calm day. Odd.

[Gremlinzzz]

Interesting video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA3WYli55g4&feature=related
cant be explained story
1952-Washington D. C. Buzzed by UFOs
http://ufos.about.com/od/visualproofphotosvideo/p/washingtondc.htm
:)

[Tibuda]

UFOs predate BC, here are some pics pre-1940s:
I know some of these are biblical, but the point is the paintings. Please dont discuss any political or religious point of this because I am showing only for a historical point of view...

[...]

The point is that UFOs are not a current fad, they have been around since early caveman shown in many cave drawings and described by many ancient cultures.

Have you read the book or seen the documentary "Chariots of the Gods"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariots_of_the_Gods%3F

I remember there was one episode of X-Files that Deep Throat or someone else tells Fox Mulder that the aliens have been here a "long time before he thought". I don't remember which episode, but the scene is on my mind.

[Paqman]

Have you read the book or seen the documentary "Chariots of the Gods"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariots_of_the_Gods%3F


Erich Von Daniken is an idiot. His claims have been comprehensively debunked. The pyramids, for example, show a clear iterative process of development.

[Tibuda]

Erich Von Daniken is an idiot. His claims have been comprehensively debunked.

Very kind of you. Does that make him an idiot? Then, so is Newton, Plato...

The pyramid was never really a good example.

EDIT: I don't think Chariots of the Gods was meant to be conclusive. It was not to me. Some points are easily debunked (like the pyramids), but some just can't be debunked but none of them is proof.

[Dry Lips]

Däniken:
When I was a kid, I thought that the books of Erich von Däniken were very exciting.
However, he certainly isn't the most trustworthy author around:


Däniken claimed that a non-rusting iron pillar in India was evidence of extraterrestrial influence. Later, Däniken admitted in a Playboy interview that the pillar was rusty and man-made, and that as far as supporting his hypotheses goes "we can forget about this iron thing."
Some also question von Däniken's credibility, as he has also knowingly put forward fraudulent evidence to advance his hypotheses, such as photographs of pottery "depicting UFOs", supposedly from an archaeological dig dating back to the biblical era. The PBS television series Nova determined that this was a fraud, and even located the potter who made them. When confronted with this evidence, von Däniken argued that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his ideas if they saw actual proof.

In The Gold of the Gods von Däniken claimed to have been guided through artificial tunnels in a cave under Ecuador, Cueva de los Tayos, containing gold, strange statues and a library with metal tablets, which he wrote was evidence of ancient space visitors. The man who he claimed showed him these tunnels, Juan Moricz, told Der Spiegel that all of von Däniken's descriptions came from a long conversation and that the photos in the book had been "fiddled". Von Däniken eventually told Playboy that although he had seen the library and other places he had described, he had also fabricated some of the events to add interest to his book.https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Eric_Von_Daniken

[Tibuda]

That makes him an idiot.

Now I have to read The Space Gods Revealed.

[Gremlinzzz]

UFOs predate BC, here are some pics pre-1940s:
I know some of these are biblical, but the point is the paintings. Please dont discuss any political or religious point of this because I am showing only for a historical point of view...

https://www.forbiddenhistory.info/files/madonna-stgiovannino-palazzo-vecchio.jpghttp://

http://xfacts.com/old/maryufo2_compressed.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/panicale_compressed.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/ufocrociate_compressed.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/crivell2_compressed.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/deg2.jpg

http://xfacts.com/old/ovni2.jpg

The point is that UFOs are not a current fad, they have been around since early caveman shown in many cave drawings and described by many ancient cultures.

4and5 look like the same UFO was it done by the same artist?

[Bandit]

4and5 look like the same UFO was it done by the same artist?

Not that I know of. I would have to research it further, but since they are so old I doubt I would find something conclusive. 4 for example shows the UFO shooting a light onto Mary, mother of Jesus. This could be a mis-interpretation that I will not get into. But the object is saucer shaped non the less.

Now Erich Von Daniken despite making some good observations is one of those that will try to convince you of anything just to justify his own conclusions. I have read some of his work, but my advice to anyone is to take it with a grain of salt. Now if anyone would like to catch up on some of his work, but dont prefer to read. Those here who have History Channel on cable may be able to catch Ancient Aliens which covers some of his work and work by others in regards to Ancient Civilizations and Ancient Astronauts. 2 or 3 seasons worth are also on Netflix. Its a good watch, just dont believe every bit of it. Never the less, excellent food for thought.

[Bandit]

That makes him an idiot.

Now I have to read The Space Gods Revealed.

Careful to anyone using that word:

- An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot)

[PC_load_letter]

Erich Von Daniken is an idiot. His claims have been comprehensively debunked. The pyramids, for example, show a clear iterative process of development.

Well, true, but there is not a single theory (that I know of) from an engineering perspective to explain how on earth they managed to put one block of stone weighing 2~30 tons each every 90 seconds!!!!!

No offense, but we can't do this today with our equipment, so something still needs explaining.

[Tibuda]

4and5 look like the same UFO was it done by the same artist?

Pyramids of egyptians and of the astecs look like the same, was it done by the same architect? :popcorn:

[Bandit]

Well, true, but there is not a single theory (that I know of) from an engineering perspective to explain how on earth they managed to put one block of stone weighing 2~30 tons each every 90 seconds!!!!!

No offense, but we can't do this today with our equipment, so something still needs explaining.

This is true. And if they was pre cut before moving. How the heck can they be so tightly put together. like paper thin tight and the biggest question. Where the heck are the tools used?


Pyramids of egyptians and of the astecs look like the same, was it done by the same architect? :popcorn:
That actually a question many would like to find out. And like posted above in regards to the tools used. There are none for those cities either. I would like to get more in depth with this. But I need some sleep and will post some info tomorrow.. G'night all. :)

[KiwiNZ]

Well, true, but there is not a single theory (that I know of) from an engineering perspective to explain how on earth they managed to put one block of stone weighing 2~30 tons each every 90 seconds!!!!!

No offense, but we can't do this today with our equipment, so something still needs explaining.

One difference between then and now is, then you could have tens of thousands of workers doing the work for low cost. It is hard to put that into practice today.

But the reasons, building, source, purpose of the pyramids has never really been given and acceptable explanation.

Personally I do not believe they were constructed as a tomb for one individual but commandeered as a tomb some time after the construction.

[alphacrucis2]

This is true. And if they was pre cut before moving. How the heck can they be so tightly put together. like paper thin tight and the biggest question. Where the heck are the tools used?


That actually a question many would like to find out. And like posted above in regards to the tools used. There are none for those cities either. I would like to get more in depth with this. But I need some sleep and will post some info tomorrow.. G'night all. :)

Most of the blocks are very crudely cut with gaps filled with a mixture of rubble and gypsum mortar. They only paid real attention to the facing stones.

[pommie]

What the heck does that have to do with anything? If I'm not allowed to talk about being a Christian, then why can people talk about being atheists all the time?

That was put in because when I state that I do not believe in UFO's, ghosts etc etc the reply is usually "If you don't believe in any of that, I suppose you don't believe in God either" as if being an Atheist was something disgusting, and I was just taking the wind out of their sails.


Where is that proof? It's generally accepted that light is massless.

If it is massless, how come it is affected by gravity??
Not trying to be funny here but light is either has or has not mass, if it is massless then it must travel at the speed of light, if it has mass then it cannot travel at the speed of light.
Yet it does travel at the speed of light AND is affected by gravity???
I do not have the answer, just the two contradictory facts.


As to the "impossible" structures around the world, my opinion is that it was just extremely good craftsmanship, done over many years by many people, not slaves as their work would be a lot cruder, you have to remember the times these were built, it was a time of Gods, the Pharaoh's of Egypt were considered Gods, therefore the people would work long and hard for them, most of these structures were to worship their local God and if it took generations to build something worthy of their God, then so be it.
Think of modern man, before laser and GPS technoligy, we could, and did, dig curved tunnels, starting from each end and meeting in the middle within inches/centimeters, there were many more feats like that between, say 1800 to 1940 when technology started to make it easier, well more accurate anyway.

Cheers David

[Rasa1111]

One of the favorite trills of the debunkers' flute is, "If there are all these UFOs up there, why haven't any professional astronomers reported seeing them?"
[/Wang Sichao is a professional astronomer at Purple Hills Observatory of the Chinese Academy of Sciences. With 39 years of experience, he is someone we should take very seriously.Wang Sichao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Sichao)


Wang Sichao (王思潮) is a Chinese astronomy scholar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholar), minor planet specialist and astronomer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomer).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Sichao#cite_note-xh1-0)
Sichao is currently working as a researcher at Nanjing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing)'s Zijinshan Astronomical Observatory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zijinshan_Astronomical_Observatory). [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Sichao#cite_note-xh1-0)
In an interview with Xinhuanet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinhuanet), Sichao commented on the International Astronomical Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Astronomical_Union)'s 2006 vote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_definition_of_planet) over Pluto's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto) status as a planet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet):
The demotion is a scientific result and it reflects the current understanding of humankind about the solar system ... We must first get a clear definition of planets and the solar system, then we can carry out planetary probe missions in a better way.
—Wang Sichao,


On 23-August-2010, the People's Daily online (news organ of the Central Committee in Bejing), reported that Wang had made some very revealing comments about UFOs. He made those comments on 23-August-2010 at a science forum held in Guangzhou.




Wang said that UFOs have appeared many times in the terrestrial space at an altitude of between 130 kilometers (80 miles) to 1,500 kilometers (932 miles). He said they have been observed to fly at speeds much slower than "the first cosmic velocity", some as slow as .29 kilometers per second.(317.1 yards/sec or 216 mph). Wang said they are able to do this for more than 25 minutes, meaning they have anti-gravity capabilities. If they did not have anti-gravity capabilities, they could not stay in their positions at that speed, and would be dragged earthward by gravity.



The article states that Wang came to these conclusions "based on the spherical astronomy and physics method and his years of observation at Purple Hills Observatory as well as the quantitative analysis of some significant UFO events".




Wang also said he disagrees with Stephen Hawkings' warning against contacting extraterrestrials. He says we should proceed on the basis friendliness and promoting "the human beings' civilization through exchange and cooperation" with them. He adds that if the extraterrestrials turn out not to be friendly, "we can beat them back based on their weaknesses."



.... A credible professional astronomer ignored the IAU program of keeping the lid on things like this, broke ranks, and told the world the truth.

The Chinese government should be excessively proud of Wang Sichao for stepping forward with his information.

article (http://www.ufodigest.com/article/debunkers-take-it-teeth-again) <here

The astronomers I work with (veterans~ most for longer than this guy)
also don't have a problem with admitting and talking about things they've seen and cannot explain. If members of the public ask.. They are given honest answers.
Better to be honest with yourself and others, than to fear the possible, ignorant ridicule of others.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean 'aliens"..
But it certainly means something beyond 'our' current understanding or knowledge..
:P

[forrestcupp]

That was put in because when I state that I do not believe in UFO's, ghosts etc etc the reply is usually "If you don't believe in any of that, I suppose you don't believe in God either" as if being an Atheist was something disgusting, and I was just taking the wind out of their sails.But the argument that you were trying to preempt is against the forum rules, anyway. That question you supposed would come about is pretty weak. Besides, a lot of us around here have a lot of experience with those types of arguments and have heard every question and reply possible, so you're probably not going to take the wind out of anyone's sails.

I'm just saying that if people get in trouble for voicing their support for God/Christianity on these forums, then we shouldn't see so many people getting away with voicing their opposition to God/Christianity. It's hypocritical for the forums to allow one side, but not the other.



If it is massless, how come it is affected by gravity??
Not trying to be funny here but light is either has or has not mass, if it is massless then it must travel at the speed of light, if it has mass then it cannot travel at the speed of light.
Yet it does travel at the speed of light AND is affected by gravity???
I do not have the answer, just the two contradictory facts.
I don't have the answer, either. I'm just stating that it is generally accepted that light is massless. Since we don't know everything there is to know, why couldn't something without mass be effected by gravity? We already know that the constant speed of light only applies in a vacuum.

[Gremlinzzz]

UFO DOCUMETARY I Know What I Saw 2011
as seen on History channel:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIeGeE0uDJg

[Bandit]

That was put in because when I state that I do not believe in UFO's, ghosts etc etc the reply is usually "If you don't believe in any of that,.....

Cheers David
Dave, I really like reading your insights. But please dont discuss religious beliefs. From my understanding its OK to make historical points based on religious events as the moral, ethical or political views are not involved in the discussion or/and as long as the religion associated with the event is also not discussed or pushed onto an individual. Its a very thin red line we can not cross or the thread will get locked. :(


UFO DOCUMETARY I Know What I Saw 2011
as seen on History channel:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIeGeE0uDJg

I may have seen it, but going to see if I can watch it again possible from the link you posted. Thank you :)

EDIT:
Just watched it very good video...

[KiwiNZ]

This thread has been going along very well with good discussion. Please keep in mind the Forum rules concerning the discussion of religion.

For clarity, I don't believe making statements such as " it was a time of Gods, the Pharaoh's of Egypt were considered Gods" is discussing religion but is stating what has been historically documented as the Social status of the Pharaohs, it is relevant to the discussion about the construction of such structures as the Pyramids.

Getting into discussion as to being Atheist or Christian is discussing religion and is not permitted under the Code of conduct.

Thank you

[Gremlinzzz]

Like the way Michio Kaku explains things:)
Michio Kaku: Alien Life, Dimensions & The Universe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4wy6moB69w

[forrestcupp]

Getting into discussion as to being Atheist or Christian is discussing religion and is not permitted under the Code of conduct.

Thank you

Thank you for including both sides.


Now, back to talking about the Greys. :)
(I suppose that could be discriminatory and would also be against the CoC. Not all aliens are grey.) :oops:

[Bandit]

Thank you for including both sides.


Now, back to talking about the Greys. :)
(I suppose that could be discriminatory and would also be against the CoC. Not all aliens are grey.) :oops:

They could be blue too :)

http://collider.com/wp-content/image-base/Movies/A/Avatar/Movie_Images/Avatar%20movie%20image%20(3).jpg

[ubuntu27]

If it is massless, how come it is affected by gravity??
Not trying to be funny here but light is either has or has not mass, if it is massless then it must travel at the speed of light, if it has mass then it cannot travel at the speed of light.
Yet it does travel at the speed of light AND is affected by gravity???
I do not have the answer, just the two contradictory facts.



Wang Sichao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Sichao) article (http://www.ufodigest.com/article/debunkers-take-it-teeth-again)


Wang said that UFOs have appeared many times in the terrestrial space at an altitude of between 130 kilometers (80 miles) to 1,500 kilometers (932 miles). He said they have been observed to fly at speeds much slower than "the first cosmic velocity", some as slow as .29 kilometers per second.(317.1 yards/sec or 216 mph). Wang said they are able to do this for more than 25 minutes, meaning they have anti-gravity capabilities. If they did not have anti-gravity capabilities, they could not stay in their positions at that speed, and would be dragged earthward by gravity.




For people who were talking about gravity:

This video documentary is very fascinating:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8DKLJPLHqk

[Gremlinzzz]

good documentary
Funny when i was learning in school they never mentioned Nikola Tesla
or how Tomas Edison was jealous of him.seems Nikola made the mistake of trying to create free energy for the world.Greed kicked in and his benefactors didn't like the idea so shut down his funding.Sad would have been a different world if all had free energy.

[NightwishFan]

Funny when i was learning in school they never mentioned Nikola Tesla
This is my experience as well.

Tesla is the man.

[forrestcupp]

You guys never heard of a Tesla coil?

[NightwishFan]

You guys never heard of a Tesla coil?
Of course but no thanks to the education system. ;)

[Bandit]

You guys never heard of a Tesla coil?

I have, of course I have always admired and respected Tesla's work with great admiration. I actually rank him personally above Albert Einstein.
But, he and Einstein are the two I respect the most.

Most folk think AC current and electrical motors were by that fraud Edison.

[JASONFUSARO]

This is it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67vhNaXm8Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp

[pommie]

This is it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67vhNaXm8Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp

If I was that guy/girl I would be asking for a refund on the camera, sorry but with auto-focus there is no reason for a blurry image, unless of course you wanted it that way for some reason.
Note that the "Alien" did not move, just swiveled his head and torso, the Muppets do better :P

Cheers David

[NightwishFan]

Even the uploader did spam.

[Bandit]

This is it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67vhNaXm8Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp

LMAO, that goes in the 95% pile.. :D

[Gremlinzzz]

This is it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67vhNaXm8Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp

I'm A Believer same creature in this video:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUyu5prWjTE&feature=related

[ubuntu27]

You guys never heard of a Tesla coil?

I have and seen many videos showcasing it. Very cool.



This is my experience as well.

Tesla is the man.

Yeah! :guitar:

good documentary
Funny when i was learning in school they never mentioned Nikola Tesla
or how Tomas Edison was jealous of him.seems Nikola made the mistake of trying to create free energy for the world.Greed kicked in and his benefactors didn't like the idea so shut down his funding.Sad would have been a different world if all had free energy.

Same experience here. I've never learned of Nikola Tesla (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEJNJ0rFSe8&feature=related) in school. I learned on him by myself. Just like the majority of my knowledge is.


If only people were not so greedy...
Imagine how to world could have become if his inventions reached the public and was not confiscated and classified by the powers-that-be.


I have, of course I have always admired and respected Tesla's work with great admiration. I actually rank him personally above Albert Einstein.
But, he and Einstein are the two I respect the most.

Most folk think AC current and electrical motors were by that fraud Edison.

I rank Nikola Tesla (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoY_7mbm5ng) above any modern scientist :D He is the man! :popcorn:


For those new to Nikola Tesla: Here is a very short film explaining his character: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaxD_4n3KMg


And here is a video documentary about Nikola Tesla: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoY_7mbm5ng

Quote from the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoY_7mbm5ng)'s description:

"This program reveals the discoveries of a forgotten genius, many of which went virtually unnoticed for nearly a century. Nikola Tesla is considered the father of our modern technological age and one of the most mysterious and controversial scientists in history. How did this obscure visionary from what is now Yugoslavia, lay the foundation for modern communications and energy research?

Nikola Tesla's contributions to science and technology include the invention of radio, television, radio-astronomy, remote control and robotics, radar, medical x-ray and the wireless transmission of electricity. Many of Nikola Tesla's inventions were and in some cases still are considered too revolutionary by government agencies and the power brokers of the time and are discussed in detail in this program. "

[Bandit]

I rank Nikola Tesla (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoY_7mbm5ng) above any modern scientist :D He is the man! :popcorn:..................


I agree, great video link..

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x1B-v1Lyd74/TijdA11DSyI/AAAAAAAABKs/c0RMoL6g8Ek/ChuckNorrisApproved-200px-Blue.png

[lovinglinux]

The thread is too big, so I apologise if it has been posted already, but I found this interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4izhwg3Mo

[beew]

If it is massless, how come it is affected by gravity??
Not trying to be funny here but light is either has or has not mass, if it is massless then it must travel at the speed of light, if it has mass then it cannot travel at the speed of light.
Yet it does travel at the speed of light AND is affected by gravity???
I do not have the answer, just the two contradictory facts.



photon has no REST mass.

[pommie]

photon has no REST mass.
Please explain, REST mass ????

Cheers David

[beew]

Please explain, REST mass ????

Cheers David

The mass of a particle is dependent on its speed, so it is not a constant. The rest mass is the mass as measured by an observer at rest relative to the particle (or, in other words, in the particles' rest frame)

Since you can't catch a photon at rest (it always travels with the speed c in vacuum regardless of the motion of the observer) it has no rest mass.

The photon however has energy and hence a 'mass' according to E = mc^2. So the photon's mass would be E/c^2 = hf/c^2 where f is the frequency of the photon, h is Plank's constant ( E = hf is the de Broglie relation from quantum mechanics). It is this mass that responds to gravity (resulting in changing frequency for the photon, look up gravitational red shift)

[pommie]

Now this is where I have difficulty understanding.

A photon always travels at c in a vacuum regardless of the motion of the observer.

Ok I get the changing frequency bit, but what if there are two observers, traveling at different speeds in relation to each other, observing the same photon, it cannot be traveling at c in relation to both observers, and as nothing in the Universe is at a standstill, the speed of light can only be measured between two points with a known and unchanging distance between them.

Speed is relative, but relative to what ??

What speed, relative to each other, is a photon doing when it passes another photon traveling in the opposite direction,
If speed is relative then its twice the speed of light.
If its not relative, what fixed point exists to compare its speed against ??

Inquiring minds want to know :)

Cheers David

[beew]

Speed is relative, but relative to what ??
The speed of light is constant relative to any observer. This is deeply paradoxical as you pointed out because it deviates from our usual experience with cars, flying base balls etc.

So the notion of space and time would have to be redefined to accommodate that, that is the insight of Einstein ( I will skip what motivated him, but there were experimental and theoretical reasons, not that he was just doing that randomly)This entails that all the laws of Newton's mechanics have to be rewritten so that all equations would have the same form for all "inertial observers" traveling with constant velocity relative to each other. The "coordinate change" from one such observer to another is expressed by the Lorentz transformation rather than the the so called Galliean transformation from highschool physics. A result is that velocities would combined in such a way that the speed of light would be constant no matter what the observer's motion is.

But if all speeds involved are small comparing to c, as in the cases of cars and flying baseballs, then the relativistic equations reduce to Newton's as an approximation, so Newton's laws still "work" in our familiar environment of trains and base balls, there lies the unity of physics.

[Bandit]

We have already been over the mass/mass-less Photon debate. The point is if a house fly is in your kitchen sitting out of sight not moving, you dont notice it. But when it up flying around and your trying to chase it down to kill it. Its everywhere. Same with Photons, they are not mass-less, just not noticeable unless its buzzing in your face.

To sum things up, you cant always say everything taught in todays modern physics class is fact. Matter of fact most is just theories and equations to try to explain what we observe. Its not facts, its just our best guess at the moment. Its all good to give people credit for trying to do the best they can, but never stop questioning everything or science will never progress.

BTW, a graviton can be thrown in the 95% pile of mine...

[Gremlinzzz]

The thread is too big, so I apologise if it has been posted already, but I found this interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4izhwg3Mo

The spiral UFO that went into a black hole,was debunked as a rocket out of control.but i didn't seen any part of the rocket fall to the ground or shouldn't it just explode with a loud bang and flash of fire?:)

[Bandit]

The spiral UFO that went into a black hole,was debunked as a rocket out of control.but i didn't seen any part of the rocket fall to the ground or shouldn't it just explode with a loud bang and flash of fire?:)

Nah, I have actually even seen them do this during the day. Even during the day its hard to see them aside from the smoke trail. Also something to consider, a wormhole would have to implode when closing. not explode out like seen in the clip. The reason of the outward dissipation of the spiral was due to the rocket loosing momentum (running out of fuel).
Rest of the video is very compelling tho. :)

[lovinglinux]

...Rest of the video is very compelling tho. :)

Except for the radio interview, in which the guy is laughing at some points.

[Bandit]

Here is a good video about the UFO cover ups here in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzwTlf73xsk

[Swagman]

There is a post on an Amiga Forum from a guy who witnessed the spiral phenomenon first hand. He said "in no way could that be attributed to a rocket"

The guy is actually an astronomer by trade (or whatever the technical term is) he did say though that there is a HAARP dish at Trondheim that was pointing in that direction and was active at that particular time.

Then Europe had the "mother of all winters"

You make your own minds up what that could mean !!

[fatality_uk]

Were a little over 100 years into the "Modern" age Physics, 1905. Think where our understanding of how energy can be generated and harnessed!

[pommie]

It seems there is a rule that crashing UFO's must pick the most desolate area to do so.
Why hasn't a UFO crashed in a populated area, I mean they are crashing, they do not have a choice as to where they crash, something goes wrong and they go down, also I would think they would be over populated areas more than desolate ones, so I ask again, why no crashes in populated area's.

Oh :idea: of course, that would mean no conspiracy theories #-o

Cheers David

[Gremlinzzz]

It seems there is a rule that crashing UFO's must pick the most desolate area to do so.
Why hasn't a UFO crashed in a populated area, I mean they are crashing, they do not have a choice as to where they crash, something goes wrong and they go down, also I would think they would be over populated areas more than desolate ones, so I ask again, why no crashes in populated area's.

Oh :idea: of course, that would mean no conspiracy theories #-o

Cheers David

Alien rules
no crashing in populated areas
no discussions of politics
no discussions of religion and no smoking :)


now that i think of it with the millions of airplane flights a very small amount crash in populated areas

[DawieS]

The reason is that "populated" areas are a very small percentage of the earth's total surface area.:smile:

[Gremlinzzz]

The Valentich Disappearance occurred on 21 October 1978, when 20 year old Frederick Valentich disappeared while piloting a small Cessna 182 aircraft over Bass Strait to King Island, Australia, after reporting a strange craft flying nearby. The disappearance generated significant press attention, both throughout Australia and internationally. No trace of Valentich or his Cessna has been found, and his description of a large, unusual object has earned his vanishing a place in UFO lore. A Department of Transport aircraft accident investigation concluded the reason for the disappearance could not be determined.
This one is very strange and unexplainable:)

[pommie]

Most sightings are over area's with a reasonable population, all reported crashes have been in desolate areas, surely with over 3000 years of recorded history one should of crashed in a populated area.
Anyway why would they be interested in low populated areas, unless they like to observe the native salt-bush and scrub, there is no Macca's drive through out there either ;p

Cheers David

[Gremlinzzz]

The Valentich Disappearance occurred on 21 October 1978, when 20 year old Frederick Valentich disappeared while piloting a small Cessna 182 aircraft over Bass Strait to King Island, Australia, after reporting a strange craft flying nearby. The disappearance generated significant press attention, both throughout Australia and internationally. No trace of Valentich or his Cessna has been found, and his description of a large, unusual object has earned his vanishing a place in UFO lore. A Department of Transport aircraft accident investigation concluded the reason for the disappearance could not be determined.
This one is very strange and unexplainable:)

Heres the transcripts of that flight
http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198177&stc=1&d=1311445211http://ubuntuforums.org/images/attach/jpg.gifhttp://ubuntuforums.org/images/attach/jpg.gif

video reenactment of the flight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy1s7D71NVI&feature=related

[ninjaaron]

They can fly over as long as they don't put anything in my butt.

P.S. Let's hope they don't use Linux, or the only way we can ID4 them is with trojans.

P.P.S. To those of you who think it is arrogant to believe we are alone in the universe, our existence on this planet is already a mathematical impossibility (given the total mass of the universe and the required arrangement of particles to generate life). It's a miracle that it happened once. While it is technically possible that life may have developed elsewhere, it is much wiser to consider other possibilities until they are thoroughly exhausted until extraterrestrial life could be proven without a doubt.

On the other hand, it is somewhat more likely that life started somewhere else and came to earth, or vis versa. If there is life out there, it is much more likely that it is related to us than now. Still would leave us with a lot of explaining to do.

[madebyjordan]

They can fly over as long as they don't put anything in my butt.

P.S. Let's hope they don't use Linux, or the only way we can ID4 them is with trojans.

P.P.S. To those of you who think it is arrogant to believe we are alone in the universe, our existence on this planet is already a mathematical impossibility (given the total mass of the universe and the required arrangement of particles to generate life). It's a miracle that it happened once. While it is technically possible that life may have developed elsewhere, it is much wiser to consider other possibilities until they are thoroughly exhausted until extraterrestrial life could be proven without a doubt.

On the other hand, it is somewhat more likely that life started somewhere else and came to earth, or vis versa. If there is life out there, it is much more likely that it is related to us than now. Still would leave us with a lot of explaining to do.

Also, say if the conditions were right elsewhere in the universe (highly likely, in fact - it is a fact) and those conditions were exactly the same to harbour life like here on Earth (likely). You would imagine that single cell organisms would develop identically like here on Earth, so you'd think we'd find a human-like species elsewhere in the universe. Although, surely those planets would have had a dinosaur period too, would they have been wiped out by an asteroid collision too? Unlikely. Dinosaurs vs human-like creatures = dinosaurs win every time.

TL:DR - the universe is probably filled with dinosaurs and pterodactyl's can't operate UFOs, therefore the video is a fake.

* I haven't really thought this through.

[Thewhistlingwind]

There is a post on an Amiga Forum from a guy who witnessed the spiral phenomenon first hand. He said "in no way could that be attributed to a rocket"

The guy is actually an astronomer by trade (or whatever the technical term is) he did say though that there is a HAARP dish at Trondheim that was pointing in that direction and was active at that particular time.

Then Europe had the "mother of all winters"

You make your own minds up what that could mean !!

It's funny, because apparently HAARP dishes exist to shoot down nukes.........(That's what I got out of hours of googling.)

The winter is completely unrelated, but certainly makes it more ironic.

[Bandit]

It seems there is a rule that crashing UFO's must pick the most desolate area to do so.
Why hasn't a UFO crashed in a populated area, I mean they are crashing, they do not have a choice as to where they crash, something goes wrong and they go down, also I would think they would be over populated areas more than desolate ones, so I ask again, why no crashes in populated area's.

Oh :idea: of course, that would mean no conspiracy theories #-o


-------------------------------------------------------------
Most sightings are over area's with a reasonable population, all reported crashes have been in desolate areas, surely with over 3000 years of recorded history one should of crashed in a populated area.
Anyway why would they be interested in low populated areas, unless they like to observe the native salt-bush and scrub, there is no Macca's drive through out there either ;p

Cheers David

see next...


The reason is that "populated" areas are a very small percentage of the earth's total surface area.:smile:

This is very very true, I do believe its a matter of time that one does eventualy go down in a city due to heightened national security these days (i.e. shot-down). But we dont see as many crashes today as we did back in the 1940's and 50's.

Much of the crashes and shoot downs were in correlation with the coming atomic era. New high powered radars and cautious military had a lot to do with it.

[ninjaaron]

Also, say if the conditions were right elsewhere in the universe (highly likely, in fact - it is a fact) and those conditions were exactly the same to harbour life like here on Earth (likely).[/SIZE]

Funny you should say that, since science has never actually succeeded in creating life, we don't really know exactly what the required conditions are, and even if the conditions were to be right, there is still a lot of chance involved in it actually happening. I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but it's something like 99% of the DNA in every organism on Earth is identical, meaning we probably all had the same ancestor. So even on Earth, looks like life only spontaneously occurred once. I happen to be a theist, so I don't expect even this was spontaneous. The math doesn't add up. Course, if that is the case, then there could have been other created life elsewhere, but this falls outside of the realm of scientific speculation, so there can be, by definition, no arguments for or against it.

[Bandit]

Funny you should say that, since science has never actually succeeded in creating life, we don't really know exactly what the required conditions are, and even if the conditions were to be right, there is still a lot of chance involved in it actually happening. I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but it's something like 99% of the DNA in every organism on Earth is identical, meaning we probably all had the same ancestor. So even on Earth, looks like life only spontaneously occurred once. I happen to be a theist, so I don't expect even this was spontaneous. The math doesn't add up. Course, if that is the case, then there could have been other created life elsewhere, but this falls outside of the realm of scientific speculation, so there can be, by definition, no arguments for or against it.

Well the thing is even without knowing how to create life, the fact is we are here. So just because we dont know how to create life thus doesnt mean that life can not exist. Also even if this is the only planet is our Milky way Galaxy and even if we are the only planet that can harbor life from all the other Galaxy's that we can see from earth. The fact is the universe is infinite and the math behind infinity states that the chances are endless and the further we travel out the more chances there is other life. So if someone is to truly understand how infinity works, then one is to understand that there is in fact more life in the universe then we would ever be able to imagine. But due the this vastness the further away from earth other life is that this also increases the rarity that we will also ever meet other life.

So if there are other ETs visiting us here on earth, there is a even higher chance we may be the only other ETs they have ever come across.
So if they are here, they need us just as much as we need them. But is the world ready for that. Thats the real question. That may be what 2012 is really about.

[pommie]

Why would an Alien be like us, who says that they would be carbon based and breath oxygen, trees while being carbon based find oxygen a poison.
There is life on this planet that live in water at 100c and is as acidic as battery acid (Yellowstone hot springs), life under the polar ice cap, and the most amazing is life in the deep seas, no sunlight, no oxygen, near freezing temperatures and its there :P

If you think about it, an Alien looking like us is near impossible, that would take all the same conditions that started, and developed, life here, why can't life be on a gas giant, sure the pressure is great, but only to us who have developed in our pressure, if intelligent life had developed at the bottom of our seas they would think that life was impossible at the surface of their world, to low a pressure and that poison oxygen.

Life will be created wherever a source of energy to sustain it is available, intelligent life is another matter, but it happened on this planet, what makes us so unique that it cannot happen elsewhere.

The answer to the question "Are we alone" is quite possibly (but improbably) "yes, at this moment in time", with time being the operative word, even if a billion planets develop intelligent life, those episodes are spread over all of time which is infinite in both past and future.

Hey that poses an interesting question,
space is infinite, so the chance of life is infinite,
time is infinite, so the chance of life at this moment is, are you ready for this,
infinity divided by infinity :mrgreen:

Cheers David

[Bandit]

Little proof that life can exist in the stranges of places.

Nebula found deep in space to contain Methyl Alcohol or Methanol, a by product of bacteria. :D

Interstellar methyl alcohol (http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1979ApJ...227..422G)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol

[pommie]

Not proof but interesting none the less.

From here:- http://www.universetoday.com/83012/kepler-discovers-first-earth-sized-planets-inside-habitable-zone/

The discovery of 1235 new extrasolar planet candidates was announced today (Feb.2) by NASA and Kepler scientists at a media briefing. 68 of these planet candidates are Earth-sized. Another 288 are Super-Earth-size, 662 are Neptune-size and 165 are Jupiter-size. Most of these candidates orbit stars like our sun.

Even more significant is that 54 of the planet candidates are located within the ‘habitable zone’ of their host stars and 5 of those are Earth-sized.

And those are from just 1/400th of the sky and within reach of the telescope, with Earth size and under being the hardest to detect, so that number will be the minimum, not the total.

ET is out there, someday he/she/it will come visiting, just hasn't happened yet.

Cheers David

[ninjaaron]

Well the thing is even without knowing how to create life, the fact is we are here. So just because we dont know how to create life thus doesnt mean that life can not exist. Also even if this is the only planet is our Milky way Galaxy and even if we are the only planet that can harbor life from all the other Galaxy's that we can see from earth. The fact is the universe is infinite and the math behind infinity states that the chances are endless and the further we travel out the more chances there is other life. So if someone is to truly understand how infinity works, then one is to understand that there is in fact more life in the universe then we would ever be able to imagine. But due the this vastness the further away from earth other life is that this also increases the rarity that we will also ever meet other life.

1. Nobody truly understands how infinity works. It's unmeasurable.

2. There is no proof that the Universe is infinite, though it may be the case (but there are those who believe otherwise).

3. Most scientists believe there is a finite amount of mass and energy in the universe, even if it has no boundary. It is conceivable (I use the term lightly) that it might be otherwise, but the burden of proof lies with those who want to speculate infinite mass and energy, since they tend to be finite, as far as we know.

4. It is true that life happened here, but the odds were against it, and it only happened once in the billions of years that this planet has existed. It's obviously not the kind of thing that "just happens" when the conditions are right. If the Universe does have infinite matter and energy, I guess it is probable that there is life elsewhere. However, according to the actual scientific estimations of the size of the universe, it is not likely.



So if there are other ETs visiting us here on earth, there is a even higher chance we may be the only other ETs they have ever come across.
So if they are here, they need us just as much as we need them. But is the world ready for that. Thats the real question. That may be what 2012 is really about.

1. We are not ETs. We are Ts.

2. ... WTF!? I'm out.

[pommie]

1. Nobody truly understands how infinity works. It's unmeasurable. Precisely, infinity is unmeasurable, thats the whole meaning of the word...

2. There is no proof that the Universe is infinite, though it may be the case (but there are those who believe otherwise). If the Universe is not infinite, what is at the end of it (besides the restaurant) and what is on the other side of "The end of the Universe"


3. Most scientists believe there is a finite amount of mass and energy in the universe, even if it has no boundary. It is conceivable (I use the term lightly) that it might be otherwise, but the burden of proof lies with those who want to speculate infinite mass and energy, since they tend to be finite, as far as we know. I have trouble believing scientists who state something as a fact then state "as far as we know". It is either a fact, with proof required, or it is a guess, as we get better and better means of seeing further and further we keep seeing more and more of the universe, the size of the Universe has had to be increased more and more, and scientists have had their statements amended again and again, you and I would be "wrong" the scientists just amend their results to account for new data.


4. It is true that life happened here, but the odds were against it, and it only happened once in the billions of years that this planet has existed. It's obviously not the kind of thing that "just happens" when the conditions are right. If the Universe does have infinite matter and energy, I guess it is probable that there is life elsewhere. However, according to the actual scientific estimations of the size of the universe, it is not likely.
highlight:- See answer to number three.

So we all come from the same single cell organism?? plants, bacterium, insects etc, and what about the life around the volcanic vent chimneys in the deep seas, any life dropping down to those depths would die, the smoke coming out of those chimneys is pure toxic poison, yet there is life, no wait there can't be as it is not possible for more than one life creation episode, but its there ???????

Then there is this, from here :- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110516080124.htm


ScienceDaily (May 16, 2011) — The planetary system around the red dwarf Gliese 581, one of the closest stars to the Sun in the galaxy, has been the subject of several studies aiming to detect the first potentially habitable exoplanet. Two candidates have already been discarded, but a third planet, Gliese 581d, can be considered the first confirmed exoplanet that could support Earth-like life.

Cheers David

[Bandit]

1. Nobody truly understands how infinity works. It's unmeasurable.
Infinity is exactly what it means in math, it is un-ending measurement that has no beginning or end only points of reference along its line.



2. There is no proof that the Universe is infinite, though it may be the case (but there are those who believe otherwise).
I can understand your frustration with this concept. Even going throw school as a young kid having teachers trying to teach the whole big-bang theory they try to label boundarys around things they dont understand.



3. Most scientists believe there is a finite amount of mass and energy in the universe, even if it has no boundary. It is conceivable (I use the term lightly) that it might be otherwise, but the burden of proof lies with those who want to speculate infinite mass and energy, since they tend to be finite, as far as we know.
They are accurate, there is enough energy in one inch of vacuumed space to power most of the US. The problem is learning how to tap into that energy. Its the whole bird on the power line effect. As long as he stays on top of that line the current will not travel trough him, but if he touches anything thats slightly grounded his goose is cooked. We are in the same situation. Their have been people that have got free energy to work but big oil, coal and nuclear fuel companies around the world work to suppres this everyday to so that they can keep us paying them like slaves.



4. It is true that life happened here, but the odds were against it, and it only happened once in the billions of years that this planet has existed. It's obviously not the kind of thing that "just happens" when the conditions are right. If the Universe does have infinite matter and energy, I guess it is probable that there is life elsewhere. However, according to the actual scientific estimations of the size of the universe, it is not likely.
Not true, earth has actually had two genesis.
There is us,, /waves happilly..
Then there is Arsenic Pools in California.. (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/12/nasa-finds-arsenic-life-form/)



1. We are not ETs. We are Ts.

2. ... WTF!? I'm out.
LOL If you travel to another world and see aliens, your the ET per se..
Needless to say we are all lifeforms.. :)

[madebyjordan]

2. ... WTF!? I'm out.

Yeah I'm not buying the whole 2012 thing either. I had an old Phillips mobile phone that had a calendar that ended in 2033. I'm pretty sure there will still be life on earth after 2033.

Also, I'd wager a wee bet that the Mayans knowledge of our cosmos are no match for modern day astronomers and scientists.

[Bandit]

Yeah I'm not buying the whole 2012.
I joke around with it a lot. But honestly like you mentioned. Just because a calender ends, doesnt mean we do. Our local banks gives out calenders that end every January for the past 20 some odd years and every year we manage to live past those. :D

If someone was to actually look at the Mayan calendar and think. There isnt room on it for 2013.. So duh.. hehe

[Bandit]

I have often thought this in my head in regards to the Mayan calender how it was made.


King Shield: Pingpongpuu, I need u to make great calender for garden.

Pingpongpuu: Yes sir, I make good calender..

/a few days later..

Pingpongpuu: Sir, I have great calender you asked for...

King Sheild: very nice Pingpongpuu..

Pingpongpuu: Thank you sir..

King Sheild: Pingpongpuu, you make calender to reach long dates.. very clever..

Pingpongpuu: Yes sir, no need to replace for long time.. Only had room up to Dec 21st 2012..

King Sheild: LOL That will work fine, besides long calander will confuse people in the future and we get last laugh.. LOL

/2 thousand years later..

Archeologist #1: Mayans calender only goes to 2012

Archeologist #2: O' My.. that may be the end of time!!! :confused:

[ninjaaron]

Yeah I'm not buying the whole 2012 thing either. I had an old Phillips mobile phone that had a calendar that ended in 2033. I'm pretty sure there will still be life on earth after 2033.

Also, I'd wager a wee bet that the Mayans knowledge of our cosmos are no match for modern day astronomers and scientists.

The only apocalypse that can be discussed on this forum is January 19, 2038 03:14:08 GMT.

[ninjaaron]

If the Universe is not infinite, what is at the end of it (besides the restaurant) and what is on the other side of "The end of the Universe." some people think it's a loop, that space and time "curves" back on itself at the edge of the map. I have no idea what the evidence is for this. In any event, even if there is infinite space, we must assume that there is a place where the vacuum is complete, a boundary past which no light and energy has passed. Obviously the boundary would be expanding, but it may rubber-band back one day.
I have trouble believing scientists who state something as a fact then state "as far as we know". It is either a fact, with proof required, or it is a guess, as we get better and better means of seeing further and further we keep seeing more and more of the universe, the size of the Universe has had to be increased more and more, and scientists have had their statements amended again and again, you and I would be "wrong" the scientists just amend their results to account for new data. While you are more or less correct, the estimates of the size of the Universe are based on data. It's not as if they are just pulling numbers out of the air... or they are pulling them out of the air, but that's because that's where the evidence is. It is also true that scientists have often had to amend their guesses about these things, but so long as we are making wild speculations about alien life, we may at least ground the discussion in the best theories science has to offer at the moment. If we do anything else, we have crossed the boundary from discussion data to discussing faith. As a religious person, I'm all about faith, but it would be in violation of the forum TOS to discuss such things. :P That is to say, we enter territory where logical argumentation looses it's meaning. There are plenty of things in the universe that defy logic, and many of them are important and meaningful, it is simply that there is no basis for argumentation.

At the current state of scientific knowledge, we must postulate that the existence of extra-terrestrial life is extremely low. If the new data comes to light, I'll be happy to change my view.
So we all come from the same single cell organism?? plants, bacterium, insects etc, and what about the life around the volcanic vent chimneys in the deep seas, any life dropping down to those depths would die, the smoke coming out of those chimneys is pure toxic poison, yet there is life, no wait there can't be as it is not possible for more than one life creation episode, but its there ???????Tubeworms, different as they are from us, share most of our DNA. They have adapted to their habitat, we have adapted to ours.
Then there is this, from here :- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110516080124.htmThe ability to sustain life does not make the ability to generate it. Our planet has (so they say) been sustaining life for roughly 3.8 billion years. Only once in that time has it generated life. It apparently takes certain conditions alongside some other kind of extraordinary chance, the circumstances of which we still do not know.
Cheers Davidxoxo,
Aaron
I can understand your frustration with this concept.I appreciate your patience.
They are accurate, there is enough energy in one inch of vacuumed space to power most of the US. The problem is learning how to tap into that energy. Its the whole bird on the power line effect. As long as he stays on top of that line the current will not travel trough him, but if he touches anything thats slightly grounded his goose is cooked. We are in the same situation. Their have been people that have got free energy to work but big oil, coal and nuclear fuel companies around the world work to suppres this everyday to so that they can keep us paying them like slaves.Cool... except the part about it being suppressed. That part sucked.
Not true, earth has actually had two genesis.
There is us,, /waves happilly..
Then there is Arsenic Pools in California.. (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/12/nasa-finds-arsenic-life-form/)First, the results of this study are yet to be validated. Second, if they are, this is a clear case of adaptation and evolution. They a pre-existing form of bacteria has succeeded in substituting arsenic for phosphorus within it's cellular structure. While this revolutionary and astounding, it is not creation.

Of course, if creation was a divine act, as I believe it was, it could have happened multiple times. In that case, all scenarios are equally possible, and there is no basis for arguing any of them over any other. I could spew lazer beams out my ***. There's just no way of knowing.
LOL If you travel to another world and see aliens, your the ET per se..
Needless to say we are all lifeforms.. :)
eh... lulz... (backs away slowly)

[Bandit]

some people think it's a loop, that space and time "curves" back on itself at the edge of the map. I have no idea what the evidence is for this. In any event, even if there is infinite space, we must assume that there is a place where the vacuum is complete, a boundary past which no light and energy has passed. Obviously the boundary would be expanding, but it may rubber-band back one day.

Yea the hole Big Bang theory has really troubled me. Partially due to the fact that the notion of being inclosed in a space makes me claustrophobic. That and the fact if are boundaries in our universe, then the boundaries must have something on the other side of them. I argued the idea back in 6th grade (~20 years ago) with my science teacher that the big bang was just part of many big bangs happening all the time. That the notion that there is one is just a poor observation of not looking at the whole picture. Of course she didnt care about my ideas as usual but none the less I tried.. :)