Need a new desktop. Linux compatibility out of the box?

[kaldor]

I've been looking around, and due to being in Canada System76 and ZaReason are quite expensive to get shipped here. I'm looking at vendors such as HP.

I need it to work 100% out of the box with Linux. My needs...


Windows 7 in a virtual machine
Gaming (linux games)
The usual stuff (web, chat, etc)
Web development
At least 1 TB of hard drive space
Minimum amount of RAM to be able to smoothly run Windows in a VM and use Linux at the same time; probably at least 4 GB
Graphics card capable of running games such as Oilrush
Preferably less than $700, but I'm willing to go higher


I know AMD is getting much better with their Linux support, but I know it can be flaky still. On the other hand, lots of new PCs are coming with NVIDIA's Optimus technology which is a pain with Linux still. Intel graphics won't likely cut it.

Wondering what to look out for and what to avoid. Thanks :)

[lucazade]

http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/

Take a look at this Ubuntu-certified hardware.

[kaldor]

http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/

Take a look at this Ubuntu-certified hardware.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. But it *is* still quite incomplete.

[BrokenKingpin]

The best thing to do is find an HP desktop that meets your requirements in terms of specs, and Google to see if people have had any issue running Ubuntu on it.

I have always had good luck with HP desktop and laptops under Linux. I rarely check to see if it is Linux compatible before purchase, but have always found sticking to Intel (CPU and wireless) and NVidia graphics everything seems to work fine.

[kaldor]

The best thing to do is find an HP desktop that meets your requirements in terms of specs, and Google to see if people have had any issue running Ubuntu on it.

I have always had good luck with HP desktop and laptops under Linux. I rarely check to see if it is Linux compatible before purchase, but have always found sticking to Intel (CPU and wireless) and NVidia graphics everything seems to work fine.

Well yeah, but the thing is that often new releases of Ubuntu may have issues with certain hardware. I'm mainly looking at community opinions instead of just searching for certain things; just because something worked fine in 9.10, doesn't mean it'll be as smooth in 11.04, etc.

[3Miro]

ZaReason

http://zareason.com/shop/Desktops/

System76

http://www.system76.com/

You can also build your own system, that is what I do.

[kaldor]

ZaReason

http://zareason.com/shop/Desktops/

System76

http://www.system76.com/

You can also build your own system, that is what I do.


I've been looking around, and due to being in Canada System76 and ZaReason are quite expensive to get shipped here. I'm looking at vendors such as HP.

I don't want to pay upwards to 300 in shipping for a PC.

[oldsoundguy]

In my experience .. HP .. plug it in, turn it on, load the Linux OS of your choice and forget it!

[ZarathustraDK]

There are real money to save by building it yourself.

If you were at any time considering ZaReason or System76, then I take it you're going for quality = have a good budget. You can build quite a monster-pc for a less than ridiculous amounts of money, and tailor it specifically to suit your needs.

General rules of thumb when shopping for Ubuntu-PC parts:

- Graphics-card? Nvidia, Nvidia, Nvidia, Nvidia... I have nothing against ATI, and I expect them to overtake Nvidia at some point in the future driver-wise, until then...
- Stick to quality-brands (no no-name stuff)
- Don't buy bleeding edge, it's expensive, and chances are, unsupported.
- Be careful when choosing wireless cards.
- When considering a given part, google reviews about it; it's an immense help, and you'll figure out if the more expensive part is worth its price, or bottlenecked by some other part and therefore inconsequential.
- HP, Dell, <insert generic brand name> is not quality (perhaps apart from the processor, which is what people focus on). It's cheap hardware for the unwashed masses. There's a reason you don't see those brands when you go to the nerdy specialist stores, because nerds know better.
- You will mess up at some point (compatible hardware, CPU-socketing, ventilation etc.). It's the only way to learn, but in the long run you'll save money and get better performance, just like a car-mechanic have botched up some repair but saves a bundle in trivial repairs that'd have otherwise cost a bunch at the local repair-shop.

[Swagman]

IME

If you build it

They (compatibility) will come.

Do the hardware test and send off the result.

I've always have pretty good compatibility with Linux stuff anyway as long as you don't use Ati.. or are prepared to put the effort into faffing with ati drivers.

[kaldor]

IME

If you build it

They (compatibility) will come.

Do the hardware test and send off the result.

I've always have pretty good compatibility with Linux stuff anyway as long as you don't use Ati.. or are prepared to put the effort into faffing with ati drivers.

AMD is getting a lot better than it used to be, especially with free drivers. That said, I still don't know if I want to muck around with Catalyst.

I have also never built a PC before. I know there is a lot of money to be saved in doing so, but this PC will be mainly for college courses which CANNOT have any mistakes while I am using it. I'll be using this PC extensively and can't afford any mistakes, hence why I'm not going to bother learning to build a PC right yet.

Edit: I am going to be using a wired connection. No need for wireless, so that's out of the picture. The only concerns I have are with NVIDIA's optimus stuff, AMD's proprietary drivers, and some sandybridge processors. I've heard of a lot of issues with those mentioned above.

[SeijiSensei]

The only concerns I have are with NVIDIA's optimus stuff, AMD's proprietary drivers, and some sandybridge processors. I've heard of a lot of issues with those mentioned above.

Optimus is largely a netbook/notebook technology. If you buy a basic desktop and add an NVIDIA card, you'll be fine. After fifteen years of installing Linux on a variety of machines, I've yet to encounter a standard desktop PC that wouldn't support the OS. I'm writing this from an Acer with an Intel Q6600 and an NVIDIA 9500GT; works like a charm. My usual preference is for Dells, but I got this machine for free when a client closed shop.

[collisionystm]

I've been looking around, and due to being in Canada System76 and ZaReason are quite expensive to get shipped here. I'm looking at vendors such as HP.

I need it to work 100% out of the box with Linux. My needs...


Windows 7 in a virtual machine
Gaming (linux games)
The usual stuff (web, chat, etc)
Web development
At least 1 TB of hard drive space
Minimum amount of RAM to be able to smoothly run Windows in a VM and use Linux at the same time; probably at least 4 GB
Graphics card capable of running games such as Oilrush
Preferably less than $700, but I'm willing to go higher


I know AMD is getting much better with their Linux support, but I know it can be flaky still. On the other hand, lots of new PCs are coming with NVIDIA's Optimus technology which is a pain with Linux still. Intel graphics won't likely cut it.

Wondering what to look out for and what to avoid. Thanks :)

Dell vostro 230 works great. In fact any vostro desktop will work. I personally have the 230 and everything worked with 11.04 perfectly.

[akand074]

For a desktop, definitely build your own system. I've built several desktop computers with absolutely no research before hand on what hardware to get based on compatibility and I've had 0 problems (except minor graphics card issues that got fixed with particular drivers). Desktop's made by vendors often have custom hardware specifically designed for the combination of parts they have and the software they'll be using. You usually find more problems with them. Not to mention the money you'll save building your own computer and actually knowing every single part in there.

[kaldor]

Dell vostro 230 works great. In fact any vostro desktop will work. I personally have the 230 and everything worked with 11.04 perfectly.

I notice (from the site) that is has both NVIDIA and Intel listed for the graphics. Is there a choice between the two, or does it come with both? I know that Linux can have issues with switching between GPUs.

[mips]

My advice would be to build your own, it's really not hard.
Stick with Asus/Gigabyte for motherboard.

If you are keen we can help you build a decent system ;)
Seeing it's only linux gaming we could possibly spec a sandy bridge system with lower end nVidia GPU which you can always upgrade later if required.

[kaldor]

My advice would be to build your own, it's really not hard.
Stick with Asus/Gigabyte for motherboard.

If you are keen we can help you build a decent system ;)
Seeing it's only linux gaming we could possibly spec a sandy bridge system with lower end nVidia GPU which you can always upgrade later if required.

Yep; Linux gaming only. Lucky that my entire gaming collection had Linux versions, and the only one that didn't runs flawlessly in WINE :)

I do need a decent GPU though. Remember I'll also be doing other non-gaming activities. Also, I don't want to need to disable compiz due to poor FPS every time I want to play a game like I need to on my laptop.

Like I said, it's mainly just the graphics + sandybridge issues that I've heard about. I'll also need at very least 4 GB of RAM, I think.

[cariboo]

I'd suggest you have a look at barebones sytems from TIgerDirect (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/), Newegg (http://www.newegg.ca/) and NCIX (http://ncix.com/), depending how much you plan on spending, a good deal can be had, and in most cases you don't have to by a copy of Windows if you don't want it. They are mostly complete systems, usually all you have to add is a graphics card, and I too would suggest going with nvidia, as they just work. I run nvivdia on all my desktop ysytems, and have never had a problem with released versions.

[3Miro]

I don't want to pay upwards to 300 in shipping for a PC.

Where do you live? I live in Florida and System76 asks for 20 - 30 shipping. If you live in the UK, it would be much more.

You may look for a local store to see if they sell Linux pre-installed things, so you don't have to buy on-line.

If you want to save money, for a Linux desktop, I would strongly suggest building one yourself. I have four machines with Gigabyte motherboard, AMD CPU and Nvidia graphics. All run Linux just fine.

You can look into Barebones that would save you some of the trouble, i.e. they will do some of the putting together themselves.

[kaldor]

Where do you live? I live in Florida and System76 asks for 20 - 30 shipping. If you live in the UK, it would be much more.

You may look for a local store to see if they sell Linux pre-installed things, so you don't have to buy on-line.

If you want to save money, for a Linux desktop, I would strongly suggest building one yourself. I have four machines with Gigabyte motherboard, AMD CPU and Nvidia graphics. All run Linux just fine.

You can look into Barebones that would save you some of the trouble, i.e. they will do some of the putting together themselves.

Canada. We have no (to my knowledge) vendors like System76 either.

[LowSky]

I've been looking around, and due to being in Canada System76 and ZaReason are quite expensive to get shipped here. I'm looking at vendors such as HP.

I need it to work 100% out of the box with Linux. My needs...


Windows 7 in a virtual machine
Gaming (linux games)
The usual stuff (web, chat, etc)
Web development
At least 1 TB of hard drive space
Minimum amount of RAM to be able to smoothly run Windows in a VM and use Linux at the same time; probably at least 4 GB
Graphics card capable of running games such as Oilrush
Preferably less than $700, but I'm willing to go higher


I know AMD is getting much better with their Linux support, but I know it can be flaky still. On the other hand, lots of new PCs are coming with NVIDIA's Optimus technology which is a pain with Linux still. Intel graphics won't likely cut it.

Wondering what to look out for and what to avoid. Thanks :)


Desktop or Laptop

if Desktop, build your own, its cheaper and you get what you want.

if laptop, My personal choice is Lenovo

[kaldor]

Desktop or Laptop

if Desktop, build your own, its cheaper and you get what you want.

if laptop, My personal choice is Lenovo

For the record of anyone else posting, Laptops are out of the question. I need a desktop PC, and all-in-ones don't fit either.

[desktorp]

Newegg.ca (http://www.newegg.ca) has a pretty good selection of prebuilt and barebones systems, if that's the route you wanna go.. otherwise I would love to see a fellow-Canadian come to your aid on this one. Have you tried requesting help from local team members?

I have shipped a few computers and other things to Canada, back when I was living in Wisconsin.. and even from there, just the act of crossing the border tacked on a solid two hundred or so. Just for a test, I let UPS calculate 60 pounds in a 32in² box, valued at $800 w/ delivery confirmation and it came out to like $280 from Florida to anywhere in Canada. So yeah.. probably a wise bet to buy within Canada.

Just to note, Newegg is selling "iBuyPower" brand systems now. They have a really dumb name but they seem like pretty nice builds and they don't use crappy (or proprietary) parts, like bigger guys might. (no weird non-standard pinouts, like Dell enjoys slipping to unsuspecting customers.. or rebranded crap motherboards like HP sometimes does to their desktops)

[tumbes2000]

AMD is getting a lot better than it used to be, especially with free drivers. That said, I still don't know if I want to muck around with Catalyst.

I have also never built a PC before. I know there is a lot of money to be saved in doing so, but this PC will be mainly for college courses which CANNOT have any mistakes while I am using it. I'll be using this PC extensively and can't afford any mistakes, hence why I'm not going to bother learning to build a PC right yet.

Edit: I am going to be using a wired connection. No need for wireless, so that's out of the picture. The only concerns I have are with NVIDIA's optimus stuff, AMD's proprietary drivers, and some sandybridge processors. I've heard of a lot of issues with those mentioned above.

Building a PC will not mean it is any less reliable than a Dell or HP manufactured PC. The thing is you can pick you exact parts to make sure they do not give some junk ethernet card or sound card, etc. Assuming you do not want to build one I would suggest an HP, with a standard case (no slim or mini they get too hot). If you go the Dell route, I would only get their business, Optiplex, systems. The hardware is middle of the road, but they run cool and are designed to be on all day for years. I have found their consumer line to be crappy and so is their support. Steer clear of the emachines or Acers of the world.

[kaldor]

Main reason for me avoiding building my own is because I've never done it before and it will be important for me to have a stable system. I don't want something crapping out just because I didn't know what I was doing :)

Yeah, I've used an optiplex (lended by education department before) and Ubuntu ran flawlessly on it.

As for local teams, there are no LUGs or forums set up for anything even remotely in my region.

[desktorp]

I can dig it, but I just mean that being in the same country, you will not have to pay to pass through customs, bringing the shipping price back down closer to reality. We need some way to advertise a casting call for Canadian custom PC builders, since none of us seem to know where to look for them.

Speaking again of hypothetical logistics, it would almost be cheaper for me to buy plane tickets, fly up to you, build it and come home, than it would be to ship it. Ridiculous. Also, I've worked for UPS for a decade and still find it insulting that I get no discount on shipping. D:

Oh and the Optiplex seems to be Ubuntu Certified (ubuntufied?) like you guys were discussing earlier.. it's going to be very difficult to find something that fits your criteria of value, yet does not have an OEM copy of Windows 7 puked in to it. Hell even that iBuyPower outfit gives you Windows 7. Kinda surprised me because their prices more closely reflect the parts without the "Microsoft Tax" ..

[forrestcupp]

Just to throw this out there, the new Intel HD Graphics 3000 that comes with the 2nd generation Core i processors is much, much better than any of their older integrated graphics. I had a Core2duo laptop with a dedicated geforce 8600 GPU that did pretty good. I just bought a laptop with an i3-2310M processor with the new integrated Intel HD Graphics 3000. My Windows 7 Experience ratings on the new laptop are quite a bit higher all around even with the integrated graphics. Even the gaming graphics rating is a lot higher than my old one with a geforce 8600.

It still may not cut it, but if you get the new generation, it's exponentially better than any of their other offerings up to this point.

[uRock]

My Lenovo desktop has always had great install results for Ubuntu and Fedora.

[beetleman64]

So far as I'm aware desktops are generally OK for compatibility, with graphics cards being the main issue. Remember they usually don't have much exotic hardware in them, unlike laptops, so issues are fewer.

Just to say that so long as you don't mind using proprietary drivers, both nVidia and ATi are apparently just as good. If you must use open source drivers then ATi is often better because AMD release technical specs and assist driver development, whereas nVidia do not.

[kaldor]

Which model Lenovo do you have? @ uRock.

I wasn't aware that Intel had better stuff out. I always avoided Intel due to their low-end graphics. Do they have anything comparable to NVIDIA or AMD these days?

[uRock]

Which model Lenovo do you have? @ uRock.

3000 J Series, which they do not seem to carry anymore. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/desktops/

[Bandit]

There are real money to save by building it yourself.

If you were at any time considering ZaReason or System76, then I take it you're going for quality = have a good budget. You can build quite a monster-pc for a less than ridiculous amounts of money, and tailor it specifically to suit your needs.

General rules of thumb when shopping for Ubuntu-PC parts:

- Graphics-card? Nvidia, Nvidia, Nvidia, Nvidia... I have nothing against ATI, and I expect them to overtake Nvidia at some point in the future driver-wise, until then...
- Stick to quality-brands (no no-name stuff)
- Don't buy bleeding edge, it's expensive, and chances are, unsupported.
- Be careful when choosing wireless cards.
- When considering a given part, google reviews about it; it's an immense help, and you'll figure out if the more expensive part is worth its price, or bottlenecked by some other part and therefore inconsequential.
- HP, Dell, <insert generic brand name> is not quality (perhaps apart from the processor, which is what people focus on). It's cheap hardware for the unwashed masses. There's a reason you don't see those brands when you go to the nerdy specialist stores, because nerds know better.
- You will mess up at some point (compatible hardware, CPU-socketing, ventilation etc.). It's the only way to learn, but in the long run you'll save money and get better performance, just like a car-mechanic have botched up some repair but saves a bundle in trivial repairs that'd have otherwise cost a bunch at the local repair-shop.

This.. valid and very true points..

If I could add one thing, build your own based on the above.

[kaldor]

Well, this cleared up a lot of concerns I originally had. It seems the only thing I need to watch out for is the graphics card. Any recommendations on which NVIDIA card would be the best and most painless these days?

[kaldor]

Considering one of these (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF25a/12454-12454-3329740-64546-64546-4269972.html). Anyone with similar specs have any feedback on that?

I used a liveUSB on some similar PCs at the store. None of the PCs with an AMD gpu would boot. As soon as the mouse cursor appeared, it froze and there was lots of screen flickering before falling back to a TTY. Pretty hard to find anything with NVIDIA preinstalled in stores; might just need to build one myself afterall. I know the stories about ATI/AMD cards not being ideal, but a lot of people seem to have great results with either Catalyst or the Free drivers. I just want to be able to install Ubuntu with minimal headaches and have the same performance (roughly) that I would on Windows.

This was a lot easier a few years ago when I picked out an HP laptop which "just worked" out of the box without any issues whatsoever :(

[rewyllys]

I've been looking around, and due to being in Canada System76 and ZaReason are quite expensive to get shipped here. . . .
You might try Googling search requests along the lines of

Canadian-built Linux desktops

When I tried the one above, it yielded several possibilities that I would follow up if I were in Canada.

Good luck with your quest!

[kaldor]

Just picked up an HP. I'm amazed with the results running AMD graphics.

The open source graphics were a bit sluggish, so I installed catalyst via the additional drivers program (jockey). NO issues whatsoever. Rebooted into Ubuntu without a sweat, and games ran with amazing FPS even in WINE. I am very surprised at this, considering how much people complain about AMD.


The card is a Radeon HD 6450. Greatly recommend it.

Also, dual booting with Windows 7. I've never really used it for more than a few minutes before, and I have to say I'm fairly impressed with that as well. Apart from the buttload of bloatware preinstalled by HP, it's a pretty nice OS. Though, I'm pretty amazed I actually had to reboot my PC to install IE9... it's a bloody web browser :(

[wolfen69]

Build your own. There's nothing like assembling your own. I get a rush the first time I turn it on, and it works perfect. Start loading distros!

Most good online parts suppliers have reviews which can help in making your decision. I search for the people (in reviews) that have installed and ran linux on that hardware without issue. You'll have a much better chance of success if you do a little research and have patience.

[wolfen69]

ATI/AMD cards not being ideal, but a lot of people seem to have great results with either Catalyst or the Free drivers. I just want to be able to install Ubuntu with minimal headaches

Nvidia. Any of the mainstream cards work great. I can see why people complain about linux if they have an AMD card. Sure it works for some people, but I guarantee that nvidia will generally work better. And if you don't need heavy 3D, just go with the nouveau drivers.

I love how fedora has the nouveau drivers rocking the twinview OOTB. But I always install the nvidia drivers to play a couple games and enjoy gnome-shell to it's fullest. ;)