Should I feel bad?

[Cookie-Tux]

I'm 13, and the other day at my school I had to use the computers for IT. It was the last day of the term, and we could do anything, so, I decided to bring a Live USB to school. I was bootlocked, so I tried to get into the BIOS. The password was "password" :P. So I ended up getting a crowd of students around me asked WTF I had done to the computer. So basically what I want to know is, Should I feel bad for effectively sabotaging the BIOS?

Just wondered what the stance on this is. I personally think it shouldn't be unacceptable. Legal, I don't know.

[slooksterpsv]

I'm 13, and the other day at my school I had to use the computers for IT. It was the last day of the term, and we could do anything, so, I decided to bring a Live USB to school. I was bootlocked, so I tried to get into the BIOS. The password was "password" :P. So I ended up getting a crowd of students around me asked WTF I had done to the computer. So basically what I want to know is, Should I feel bad for effectively sabotaging the BIOS?

Just wondered what the stance on this is. I personally think it shouldn't be unacceptable. Legal, I don't know.

I mean did you just change the boot order or something else?

I mean technically they would just say you can't use the computers in the school without a teacher or attendant, at least that was our policy (no library computers, no computers during lunch, no free time on them, etc.).

If they caught you, if you really completely ruined the computer, maybe they could make your parents pay for the damage, but other than that, I doubt they'll even know or do much in that case.

[Paqman]

Well, your IT department would probably be pretty annoyed (and more than a little embarrassed at their BIOS password), but the bottom line is that you were running off a USB and weren't actually attempting to touch the installed OS. Presumably your internet access would still be restricted by their proxy, so you weren't circumventing their access policy.

I would say mildly naughty, but not done with any intent to cause trouble. Don't sweat it.

[grahammechanical]

Did you


effectively sabotaging the BIOS?

Did you act responsibly? Others may now know how to change BIOS settings and they may not act in a responsible manner.

Regards.

[NightwishFan]

You did not intend to harm anything but the potential was there. It is almost most certainly against the rules. I would say you are in the wrong. It is best to ask permission (and almost certainly be denied) first.

[Khakilang]

Don't worry you are at a learning stage and they probably let you off with a warning but the most important thing is to learn from your mistake. Just don't do it again.

[josephmills]

I would say that you are walking a fine line. Here are a couple of things to think about. First and foremost your safety. Not just now, but the future especially. I mean now is nothing you did nothing. No one told you "not to us a live usb" right? You just used it on your own. So if no one told you not to do it. Then how would you know not to do it ;). Back to the future. Say that some folks that you are hanging out with see you doing this. They might not be as nice as you where. And what if they or you get caught. First you could have your name tossed in a ditch by the people that get caught. What if you get caught.Either way you have just put a huge red mark on your forehead. What if the schools system gets broken into, and some stuff gets leaked. What if there is a teacher that is stealing funds or using them inappropriately. You could have a teacher that it out to get you because he will point the finger at you first reputation. What if the network goes down because you schools it guys are stupid ? Guess who the first person is that they are going to look for. You my friend. believe me I know. ;) Also things could start to look different for you. You could be accused of cheating tampering with your grades (when it could have been you teacher making a mistake) There are a lot of things to think about here. Teachers don't like to be shown up and IT guys hate it even more. I can not believe that the schools admins are that dumb. I mean really? So at any rate feel good about yourself you did not harm anyone or hurt anything did you? Just remember that WHAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW scares them. just explain and be honest you will be fine. Maybe you should have asked though... Also every time that you sign into a router it records that with the mac # and user name and computers name just as a heads up.
~joseph

[haqking]

I'm 13, and the other day at my school I had to use the computers for IT. It was the last day of the term, and we could do anything, so, I decided to bring a Live USB to school. I was bootlocked, so I tried to get into the BIOS. The password was "password" :P. So I ended up getting a crowd of students around me asked WTF I had done to the computer. So basically what I want to know is, Should I feel bad for effectively sabotaging the BIOS?

Just wondered what the stance on this is. I personally think it shouldn't be unacceptable. Legal, I don't know.

It depends on whether you actually sabotaged it or not.

There is a difference between peering through someones open window and walking through there front door and sitting down.

Both are potentially wrong but are still inherently different.

If you cicumvented a password mechanism without authorisation to do so then yes you are in the wrong and as for how much would depend on the Information Security Policy in place if any.
morally it is wrong aswell.

However at 13 should you feel bad that anIT department cant use a password that adheres to well known and well documented security strengths in this day and age, then HELL NO and good on ya....LOL

Just dont break anything or do any damage ;-)

[mips]

What bothers me the most is people asking other people if they should feel bad or not. Can people no longer think & be objective for themselves without asking others about their 'moral' compass.

Next time I go on a rape, pillage & pluder spree I'm gonna ask 10 others that did the same thing whether it's ok and if they say it's ok then I won't feel bad.

What's wrong with people?

[Grenage]

What bothers me the most is people asking other people if they should feel bad or not. Can people no longer think & be objective for themselves without asking others about their 'moral' compass.

Next time I go on a rape, pillage & pluder spree I'm gonna ask 10 other that did the same thing whether it's ok and if they say it's ok then I won't feel bad.

What's wrong with people?

*Hides hooker's body*

I couldn't agree more.

[Paqman]

What's wrong with people?

The OP is 13. Chill. I doubt you were as wise and worldly as you now are at that age.

[Grenage]

Even at 13, you know it's wrong to pick someone else's lock.

[jhonan]

Every time I see a thread like this, I'm convinced there's an element of braggadocio.

Or does the OP really need the moral guidance of random forum posters?

[Paqman]

Even at 13, you know it's wrong to pick someone else's lock.

I don't think the OP would have posted if part of them didn't think that too.

[forrestcupp]

Every time I see a thread like this, I'm convinced there's an element of braggadocio.

I agree. If you have to ask, you already know it's wrong. The only point of asking is to brag.

But then, the kid is 13. You shouldn't expect kids to always walk in maturity and wisdom. They're kids.

It is kind of funny that the password is "password". :)

[pommie]

The IT dept should take the blame here, "password" for the password, thats locking the door, leaving the key in the lock and hanging out the welcome sign.
They encourage the students to think, well he thought, and got the password straight away :D

Cheers David

[SoFl W]

What bothers me the most is people asking other people if they should feel bad or not. Can people no longer think & be objective for themselves without asking others about their 'moral' compass.

Next time I go on a rape, pillage & pluder spree I'm gonna ask 10 other that did the same thing whether it's ok and if they say it's ok then I won't feel bad.

What's wrong with people?

+1
Amazing isn't it? Society is failing/falling and people are standing around asking how or why it is happening as they help it along. Granted this kid is 13, but in general you are correct.

[Dry Lips]

What bothers me the most is people asking other people if they should feel bad or not. Can people no longer think & be objective for themselves without asking others about their 'moral' compass.

Next time I go on a rape, pillage & pluder spree I'm gonna ask 10 other that did the same thing whether it's ok and if they say it's ok then I won't feel bad.

What's wrong with people?

Wow... Hold on a second. Are you serious? This kid *pinky to lip* ...entered the bios of a
computer at school in order to boot up his Ubuntu. And you compare it to rape, pillage
and plunder? Seriously mate #-o

[NightwishFan]

They do encourage them to think but computer cracking is not on the itinerary. I do think he came to tell his tale and it was a good one, so no problems there. :)

[mips]

Wow... Hold on a second. Are you serious? This kid *pinky to lip* ...entered the bios of a
computer at school in order to boot up his Ubuntu. And you compare it to rape, pillage
and plunder? Seriously mate #-o

It's called an exaggerated example for effect, if I toned it down some people might not get what I'm referring to. I stand by what I said.

[Zlatan]

I'm 13, and the other day at my school I had to use the computers for IT. It was the last day of the term, and we could do anything, so, I decided to bring a Live USB to school. I was bootlocked, so I tried to get into the BIOS. The password was "password" :P. So I ended up getting a crowd of students around me asked WTF I had done to the computer. So basically what I want to know is, Should I feel bad for effectively sabotaging the BIOS?

Just wondered what the stance on this is. I personally think it shouldn't be unacceptable. Legal, I don't know.

I don't think you've made something really bad but that PC was not your property so it would be right to leave it alone or use it according to owner's policy. Meaning- you wouldn't open someone's locked car just to show your friends something cool?

You can always show-off on your own HW and do that event better than on school's PC;)

[georgelab]

Man, if the BIOS password was indeed "password", don't blame yourself. You shoud blame the local system administrator for such lack of responsibility.

As someone said above, if you just changed the computer boot sequence to run your usb stick first, that's allright. No damage at all, so don't feel bad.

[eriktheblu]

The problem I have with this is that you had to modify the boot priority. Entering the BIOS or booting to a live session is probably going to be looked upon unfavorably, but unless there are policies (even generic ones such as: do notmodify the computer) then it's probably ok.

If you are a guest in my house and I let you use the TV, I won't object if you change the channel or pop in a DVD. If you want to hook up your iPod to a vacant port, perfectly reasonable. I will however take exception if you disconnect the VCR to install a Bluray player.

[Dry Lips]

What bothers me the most is people asking other people if they should feel bad or not. Can people no longer think & be objective for themselves without asking others about their 'moral' compass.


It's called an exaggerated example for effect, if I toned it down some people might not get what I'm referring to. I stand by what I said.

All right then, let's forget your exaggerated example for a second. ;) Generally speaking I'd say that we humans sometimes do things which we afterwards have second thoughts about. That's human nature. To ask for advice doesn't mean that we have no moral compass, or that we lack objectivity, just that we acknowledge our limitations. Do you never come into situations where you afterwards wonder if you were right?


To the OP: I'd say this is no big deal. You had no malicious intent, so don't loose any sleep over this. :) If you're 13 and uses Ubuntu, you'll rock in a few years! Use your knowledge about computers for the benefit of others, and stay away from pirated software/media.


Actually I managed to break the OS of a computer when I went to the equivalent of high school. It was running Dos 6.2/Win 3.1 and I somehow managed to bork the installation while I was messing around in Dos. This was out of curiosity, during a boring computer class, so I was pretty nervous that our teacher would find out. I hurried back to the dorm and found an old disk with the system files of Dos 6.2, and managed to fix it again before anyone noticed. (Phew!) :-\"This is so long ago that I don't recall exactly what I did or what I was trying to accomplish.


I also remember that we had hidden small computer games at our user accounts, to use during class. (This was before the school got internet on their computers.) At one point I was busted playing games while I was supposed to work with Excel. :rolleyes:

[forrestcupp]

The IT dept should take the blame here, "password" for the password, thats locking the door, leaving the key in the lock and hanging out the welcome sign.
They encourage the students to think, well he thought, and got the password straight away :D

Cheers David

That still doesn't make it ok to go ahead and break in.

I think it was something he could get in trouble for, but it's not nearly as bad as actually changing things in the system. If he would have installed Ubuntu, that would have been a stupid thing to do.

[uRock]

I'm 13, and the other day at my school I had to use the computers for IT. It was the last day of the term, and we could do anything, so, I decided to bring a Live USB to school. I was bootlocked, so I tried to get into the BIOS. The password was "password" :P. So I ended up getting a crowd of students around me asked WTF I had done to the computer. So basically what I want to know is, Should I feel bad for effectively sabotaging the BIOS?

Just wondered what the stance on this is. I personally think it shouldn't be unacceptable. Legal, I don't know.

Not sure about NZ, but in most US states destruction of property is illegal.

[Paqman]

Not sure about NZ, but in most US states destruction of property is illegal.

Um, what?

[uRock]

Um, what?

The OP claims to have broken the BIOS. That is destruction of property.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_damage

[halibaitor]

The OP claims to have broken the BIOS. That is destruction of property.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_damage

You gotta be joking... How is changing the boot sequence "destruction of property?" NOTHING has been destroyed, and even if OP didn't change the sequence back to its original state, the computer still works. Destruction? :P

[NightwishFan]

It is most definitely unauthorised use.

[Thewhistlingwind]

Well, thats fine, cause at my school. The password is......

Wait for it........

WAIT for it..................

Jack diddly squat.

I even pointed this out to them. Their response "Don't tell anyone, most kids won't know how to do it." With the comp sci teacher IN ATTENDANCE!!! I facepalmed and just let it go.

You put the boot order back afterwards, right?

[yetiman64]

Should I feel bad?
I personally think it shouldn't be unacceptable. Legal, I don't know.You're question doesn't appear genuine and as some others have noted appears to be bragging.

The dumb password is irrelevant. You have bypassed protections on a machine that you do not own. Wrong, pure and simple.

You want to use someone else's property to showoff to your friends, ask permission or don't do it. Your age is no excuse.

As a 13 yo you have a lot to learn yet. One thing I will advise is for you to learn the ABC of life, Actions + Behaviours = Consequences.

Good luck mate, you're going to need it if you keep up those actions and behaviours.


I personally think it shouldn't be unacceptable. It is very unacceptable.

Unauthorized use is still unauthorized use even if you put your boot order back afterwards, it has Consequences.

[Dangertux]

Well, I did it when I was your age... Does that make it right? Nope...

Unauthorized access is just that, unauthorized access. Are you going to jail for the rest of your life? Nope, the worst that will happen is you might get suspended for a couple days more likely nothing will happen. You may possibly also have your privilages to school systems revoked.

However, in your particular case I do hope you get punished. No offense, however the reasons for that are this.

1 -- This sets a base for establishing a pattern of behavior. You didn't get caught this time, you may not get caught next time, or the next 500 times. However, your curiousity will peek and you will eventually move on to bigger things. Sooner or later, it will draw someone's attention. As smart as you may get, there will be someone smarter, with access to more resources than you. You will get caught, and dependent on how successful you have been in the past, you may get nailed down pretty hard. Just remember with all things, the bigger the potential gain, the greater the risk of obtaining it.

2 -- It's fairly immature, you should grow your knowledge, you should share that knowledge with others. If you want to circumvent security measures, do it on a system you own. Or get permission from someone that has a system that you may experiment with. However, doing it for attention or to be "cool" is futile and childish (granted you're 13). This may seem stupid, and you may hide behind the fact that you're 13. I know a 13 year old who went down that path, he ended up with the FBI knocking on his front door. (This is a true story btw). He's now 22 and pretty much had to plead to get into college because of his history. If you don't trust that, I am sure he will gladly relay the story to you himself if you are interested.

So to answer your question of should you feel bad? No, but you should definitely think about your actions BEFORE you do them.

As far as the individuals saying the password was weak. Yes it was, and it is also very easy to break into a house and steal a TV. Is it any less illegal?

A good rule of thumb I learned, if you have to think about the morality of a situation for more then a few seconds, it's probably not the right thing to do.

[Elfy]

Thread Closed.

The forum is not the place for you to learn (or not) morals.