Linux's biggest opportunity since Windows Vista

[swiftlinuxcreator]

Support for Windows XP ends in 2014. I think this is the biggest opportunity for Linux since Windows Vista was introduced. I remember hearing that even some BRAND NEW computers couldn't handle Vista. Then there were the comparisons to Windows ME, the inferior support, the rampant instability, etc. If operating systems were cars, Windows Vista was an early 1980s Cadillac with the infamous diesel engine.

The bad reviews of Vista were what spurred me to switch to Linux. I didn't want to EVER have to buy Windows again. I'm sure there were many others out there who switched from Windows to Linux around the same time I did. Many more people switched to Mac instead.

Because Vista was such a fiasco, many people and businesses stuck with Windows XP, and many people with Windows Vista "downgraded" to XP. Some people and businesses have since switched to Windows 7, but many others are still using XP. Windows 8 is coming next year, and I'm sure it will be heavier than XP and possibly heavier than Windows 7. After all, Windows 7 is the only Windows OS to be lighter than its predecessor.

I see 2014 as another opportunity for Linux to win over Windows users. I think the Windows Vista fiasco has changed the old paradigm of regularly replacing your computer. People and establishments still using Windows XP (despite Windows 7's success) are cost-conscious and are interested in an alternative to purchasing a costly "upgrade" that slows down their computers or spending even more money on replacements.

I see 2014 as an opportunity for lightweight Linux distros. I consider Windows XP users to be a top target market for my distro Swift Linux (http://www.swiftlinux.org). I see that DouDou and Zenix are other lightweight up-and-coming lightweight distros from the Debian side of the universe. I see plenty of room for more lightweight distros. Of the top 10 distros on DistroWatch, 7 are heavyweight, 2 are Debian and Arch Linux (which aren't user-friendly), and Puppy Linux. In my opinion, the current Linux market is top-heavy - there is lots of competition in the upper part of the market (Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, etc.) but very little in the bottom portion.

[cgroza]

Well, good luck to us.

[Quadunit404]

Support for Windows XP ends in 2014. I think this is the biggest opportunity for Linux since Windows Vista was introduced. I remember hearing that even some BRAND NEW computers couldn't handle Vista. Then there were the comparisons to Windows ME, the inferior support, the rampant instability, etc. If operating systems were cars, Windows Vista was an early 1980s Cadillac with the infamous diesel engine.

The bad reviews of Vista were what spurred me to switch to Linux. I didn't want to EVER have to buy Windows again. I'm sure there were many others out there who switched from Windows to Linux around the same time I did. Many more people switched to Mac instead.

Because Vista was such a fiasco, many people and businesses stuck with Windows XP, and many people with Windows Vista "downgraded" to XP. Some people and businesses have since switched to Windows 7, but many others are still using XP. Windows 8 is coming next year, and I'm sure it will be heavier than XP and possibly heavier than Windows 7. After all, Windows 7 is the only Windows OS to be lighter than its predecessor.

I see 2014 as another opportunity for Linux to win over Windows users. I think the Windows Vista fiasco has changed the old paradigm of regularly replacing your computer. People and establishments still using Windows XP (despite Windows 7's success) are cost-conscious and are interested in an alternative to purchasing a costly "upgrade" that slows down their computers or spending even more money on replacements.

I see 2014 as an opportunity for lightweight Linux distros. I consider Windows XP users to be a top target market for my distro Swift Linux (http://www.swiftlinux.org). I see that DouDou and Zenix are other lightweight up-and-coming lightweight distros from the Debian side of the universe. I see plenty of room for more lightweight distros. Of the top 10 distros on DistroWatch, 7 are heavyweight, 2 are Debian and Arch Linux (which aren't user-friendly), and Puppy Linux. In my opinion, the current Linux market is top-heavy - there is lots of competition in the upper part of the market (Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, etc.) but very little in the bottom portion.

Speculation, really. A large portion of the Windows crowd are gamers and until Desura (and possibly Steam) are released for Linux they have minimal reason to switch to Linux. There is also the fact that very little Windows apps work perfectly under Wine. One can always be hopeful, but by the time that 2014 comes around mostly everyone will have Windows 7, Windows 8 (blech...) or moved to Mac OS X.

[snowpine]

Coincidentally, April 2014 will see the release of a new Ubuntu LTS release (assuming Canonical is still around). I agree it's a good opportunity for Linux! (Although I disagree with you slightly only in that I happen to consider Ubuntu "lightweight.")

[Thewhistlingwind]

I looked into Linux because I needed a replacement for my dying XP install, don't give up yet.

EDIT:
One thing to keep in mind though... It is often more expensive to switch to linux than it is to keep Windows, considering how many staff members will have to be re-trained. :wink:

I think were talking about the home user market.

EDIT2: Well, I guess he's not, but I am.

[jeffathehutt]

People and establishments still using Windows XP (despite Windows 7's success) are cost-conscious and are interested in an alternative to purchasing a costly "upgrade" that slows down their computers or spending even more money on replacements.

One thing to keep in mind though... It is often more expensive to switch to linux than it is to keep Windows, considering how many staff members will have to be re-trained. ;)

[73ckn797]

There are also considerations that have to be taken into account with respect to the applications businesses rely on that only are available in a Windows or Mac environment. Until the programs are available for Linux, Windows will continue to dominate the PC world for most business uses. I would like to see the software developers make their product available for the Linux based OS's but that is something that is still to be seen, or hoped for, in the future.

[Dustin2128]

People don't keep computers for much more than 5 years in my experience. They get slowed down by all the crapware normal users tend to install, so they figure they need new ones. Through this process, xp generation machines will be trashed over the next 3 years so that by 2014, I doubt they'll have much more than 15-20% market share. Among those users, I'm sure, will be a few savy enough to swap to linux. But aside from extremely low income people who can't upgrade, there's few enough incentives to switch as opposed to upgrade for the average user.

And yeah, I know, it's cool to hate on vista and all but after SP1, it wasn't too terrible a release. A step up from xp, to be sure. Before SP1 though, it was a horror I admit- one of the reasons I converted to linux, actually.

In fact, the large scale binning of xp era machines has already begun- my room's recently become a hacker's paradise of perfectly good pentium 4s and old athlons thrown out by users who are upgrading. Not complaining in the least, before long I'll be able to have that atmosphere burning P4 beowulf cluster going ;).

[1clue]

If you're such a proponent of lightweight Linux distributions, then why are you on Ubuntu? The answer is, the average user doesn't WANT a lightweight alternative. They want the bells and whistles. There are lots of lightweight alternatives out there including an Ubuntu-based one that approaches medium weight.
Linux does not need to steal market share. I could care less if somebody chooses Linux or Mac or Windows of some flavor.
The point of Linux/Open Source is diversity, and the thing Linux offers is the ability to pick and choose what you want on your system (mostly) without ridiculous licensing requirements, among other things.
My experience with installing Linux on old hardware is less than pleasant. I did it when I was broke, but with the prices of modern hardware I can't see why anyone would expect to make a 3-year-old box into something truly interesting again, unless you're a genuine geek who just gets a kick out of that.
FWIW I think relatively few computer users think to re-install another operating system on a computer. They buy it as an appliance, something which has a few features on it and a few optional features they can get later, and when it's lost its utility you throw it out and get another one.

[Thewhistlingwind]

In fact, the large scale binning of xp era machines has already begun- my room's recently become a hacker's paradise of perfectly good pentium 4s and old athlons thrown out by users who are upgrading. Not complaining in the least, before long I'll be able to have that atmosphere burning P4 beowulf cluster going ;).

Same.

It's fine, I really don't care as long as Linux still has hardware to find a home on.

That's the only reason I push for increased market share, so that theres still hardware that's Linux compatible in the future.

[LowSky]

The year of Linux has already come. Linux is on nearly every popular cell phone, it runs on many of the world's super computers, in web capable TV's, and hosting your email.

Redhat did over a Billion in sales last year. Novell had enough pull to help end Oracle's dictatorship on OpenOffice.org, and made it more compatible with Microsoft Office, And then goes out creates Banshee and gives a portion of it profits to the Gnome team. IBM makes more money supporting its servers and software, than it ever did on PC's. HTC pays Microsoft a good deal of money for every Android-powered phone they sell. Intel, AMD, HP, and Nvidia overly support hardware drivers that probably cost them money hand over fist. And they do it because they believe in the platform.

[Quadunit404]

The year of Linux has already come. Linux is on nearly every popular cell phone, it runs on many of the world's super computers, in web capable TV's, and hosting your email.

Redhat did over a Billion in sales last year. Novell had enough pull to help end Oracle's dictatorship on OpenOffice.org, and made it more compatible with Microsoft Office, And then goes out creates Banshee and gives a portion of it profits to the Gnome team. IBM makes more money supporting its servers and software, than it ever did on PC's. HTC pays Microsoft a good deal of money for every Android-powered phone they sell. Intel, AMD, HP, and Nvidia overly support hardware drivers that probably cost them money hand over fist. And they do it because they believe in the platform.

Two things:

1. OMG LINUX IS THE PEOPLE'S CHOICE FOR THEIR MOBILE PHONE OS!!! THIS MEANS absolutely nothing. I'm not even sure if 98% of Android or WebOS users know what Linux is.
2. Red Hat did over a billion on sales! Yeah, this is because they virtually dominate the server market (somewhere around 60% last I checked) and because Windows Server, while it has better security than the desktop product (which is necessary for a server) is not a very good server OS. How could you NOT expect them to announce over $1b in revenue?

As I said this thread smells of speculation. Hopeless speculation.

[Thewhistlingwind]

As I said this thread smells of speculation. Hopeless speculation.

More likely then not, yes.

[Zerocool Djx]

Honestly, your best bet is this,..


Think of the core functionality of programs. The biggest thing that stops me from switching over from windows 7 to Linux completely is the programs. I don't mind having to learn a new system, I think most people wouldn't mind. But, Linux is a hot mess for people who don't know what it is or how it works. But if the sales guy said "hey relax, every program that gets an Ubuntu official 'Certified Ubuntu Software Seal' and all meant to work seamlessly with file sharing inter program. If you have like say a 'Certified Ubuntu program' where you had a bare bones source code of the programs where it is freely distrubuted and then programers could build on them that would be sweet. So when I say work in my Cinema4D in windows. If I had something in Linux that worked the same way but also worked flawlessly with gimp that would be amazing. On windows I can import my psd files into Cinema4D cause of the support. Anyway, if Ubuntu makes a program for 'Certified Ubuntu Software' or something that every program that wants that seal must work together. Using Programs in ubuntu when they never work together is an annoying crap shoot. I got to little time to run through and try to figure out what programs do what. Do that for me and I'll burn my windows machine and post it on you-tube.

[alexan]

This is a great idea; many XP user will find their hardware will be incompatible with Vista/Seven/8... even Seven was forced to recognize this and offer some sort of integrated virtualization


My idea for suggest the switch.
A special heavily optimized Ubuntu distro for VirtualBOX OSE (that come preinstalled). At first boot a small tutorial appear to explain how integrate XP in your Ubuntubox (kind: prepare your install CD and Serial Key)
Everything should look friendly... maybe with a little help from Oracle to make things even more friendly?

The only things regular user need to know is how "switch" their device (mostly USB) from the master OS (Ubuntu) in the virtualized one (XP)

Other optimization would be have XP that always shutdown in hibernate mode and remove (a virtual cd like Oracle's Guest addition) all useless XP services... so the boot will be always superfast.
They would use XP only for the strict stuff they are addicted while switching slowly to Ubuntu for gain performance&compatibility (example: IE in XP can't offer html5)

[3rdalbum]

Good idea in theory, but then you look at some facts.

Why are people still using Windows XP, a twice-obsolete version of Windows? Because they don't like change. Therefore, it's easier for them to just switch to a later Windows rather than a completely different operating system. Especially a completely different operating system that changes every six months and obsoletes old versions after eighteen months.

People without the system specs to run Vista7 won't be able to run Ubuntu 14.04 either.

There is, however, an ongoing opportunity to make Ubuntu so exciting and sophisticated that Windows Vista7/8 users will want to switch. This isn't an opportunity that happens at any particular time, but it's ongoing. The sooner we make Ubuntu really cool and exciting and modern, the sooner we steal away users from Windows. The ones who want what they've always used can stick with their bit-rotting Windows XP.

[Tibuda]

2014 the year of the linux desktop!

[Zero2Nine]

2014 the year of the linux desktop!

Finally! :)

[johnnybelfast]

I'd like to think that by 2014 most computers that came with WindowsXP will have already been decommissioned. By then an XP machine would be ancient hardware. The target date for those older computers should be now, not in 2014. That's why it's important that Ubuntu is faster then Windows XP.

[jhonan]

The sooner we make Ubuntu really cool and exciting and modern, the sooner we steal away users from Windows.
Is that the objective?

If so, then I believe that Ubuntu will forever be trying to 'steal users' from <insert_popular_operating_system_here>

Whether it's Android, iOS, Windows7/8/9 - The big difference is that these OSes are developed and promoted by organisations motivated primarily by revenue and market share. They ensure that their OSes and apps are consumer friendly, they design the UI to be device-appropriate, and they have the clout to team up with hardware manufacturers to get their OSes in the hands of consumers.

The average consumer doesn't browse the internet looking for an alternative os for their device so that they can sit and fiddle with the configuration for endless hours to get their bluetooth working. They walk into a shop, and buy a device with the OS all packaged up and ready to use. In their mind, it's one and the same. They don't even care what the OS is called - as long as it works with the device and does pretty things, that's what matters.

[Paqman]

I'd like to think that by 2014 most computers that came with WindowsXP will have already been decommissioned.

Well, I'll still be using Win XP in 2014. I'm damned if I'm going to send any of my hard-earned to Microsoft until I absolutely have to.

A lot of businesses will still be using by then, too. My company only moved to XP a couple of years ago. It was Win2000 before that.

In general though I agree with 3rdalbum. The folks who have clung to XP that long aren't fertile ground for being seduced by weird underground operating systems.

[uRock]

[LIST=1]
If you're such a proponent of lightweight Linux distributions, then why are you on Ubuntu? The answer is, the average user doesn't WANT a lightweight alternative. They want the bells and whistles. There are lots of lightweight alternatives out there including an Ubuntu-based one that approaches medium weight.


Compared to Windows XP, Ubuntu is lightweight. I can boot Ubuntu, check my email, then check my subscribed threads here before XP is finished booting on a machine of the same specs. If one ways lightness by RAM usage, then Ubuntu is lighter than any supported version of Windows.

[medic2000]

Support for Windows XP ends in 2014. I think this is the biggest opportunity for Linux since Windows Vista was introduced. I remember hearing that even some BRAND NEW computers couldn't handle Vista. Then there were the comparisons to Windows ME, the inferior support, the rampant instability, etc. If operating systems were cars, Windows Vista was an early 1980s Cadillac with the infamous diesel engine.

The bad reviews of Vista were what spurred me to switch to Linux. I didn't want to EVER have to buy Windows again. I'm sure there were many others out there who switched from Windows to Linux around the same time I did. Many more people switched to Mac instead.

Because Vista was such a fiasco, many people and businesses stuck with Windows XP, and many people with Windows Vista "downgraded" to XP. Some people and businesses have since switched to Windows 7, but many others are still using XP. Windows 8 is coming next year, and I'm sure it will be heavier than XP and possibly heavier than Windows 7. After all, Windows 7 is the only Windows OS to be lighter than its predecessor.

I see 2014 as another opportunity for Linux to win over Windows users. I think the Windows Vista fiasco has changed the old paradigm of regularly replacing your computer. People and establishments still using Windows XP (despite Windows 7's success) are cost-conscious and are interested in an alternative to purchasing a costly "upgrade" that slows down their computers or spending even more money on replacements.

I see 2014 as an opportunity for lightweight Linux distros. I consider Windows XP users to be a top target market for my distro Swift Linux (http://www.swiftlinux.org). I see that DouDou and Zenix are other lightweight up-and-coming lightweight distros from the Debian side of the universe. I see plenty of room for more lightweight distros. Of the top 10 distros on DistroWatch, 7 are heavyweight, 2 are Debian and Arch Linux (which aren't user-friendly), and Puppy Linux. In my opinion, the current Linux market is top-heavy - there is lots of competition in the upper part of the market (Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, etc.) but very little in the bottom portion.

Keep dreaming man. There will never be oppurtunity for Linux.

It is not important if it is fast, secure, lightweight etc. It is important to be just Windows. And also many people opt to(dream to) upgrade when their Pc is slow or Windows is bloated. And this is a new Windows!

You gotta understand these kind of people. Most of them uses Microsoft Office for their work and this is all. But you can not even begin to imagine they will change to another product. Cause all the world uses MS Office, they used to it, if they change compatibility problems they will experience. The second huge group is gamers. For them Linux is the most unnecessary thing. So let's quickly forget about them too. The Photoshop guys/gals won't switch also for the obvious reasons. You can think "Oh there is another group! Internet surfers, Msn chatters, facebook-twitter users! But know this. Even a different look in the msn client or a simple glitch(like program notifying someone added 2 times) they will start to whine like crazy, curse Linux and immediately return to Windows. Oh and there are some people that only uses Internet Explorer 6 and Bing.(even the computer is crawling with ads, slows down and i suggest Firefox + Adblock, they won't listen.)

Believe me i've seen all of this. They just can't see a reason to use Linux. Instead formatting everytime is easier, or living like that.

But the most horrible thing is not yet came. Myriad of people never heard of Linux. We are living in a secret society.

[Quadunit404]

Keep dreaming man. There will never be oppurtunity for Linux.

It is not important if it is fast, secure, lightweight etc. It is important to be just Windows. And also many people opt to(dream to) upgrade when their Pc is slow or Windows is bloated. And this is a new Windows!

You gotta understand these kind of people. Most of them uses Microsoft Office for their work and this is all. But you can not even begin to imagine they will change to another product. Cause all the world uses MS Office, they used to it, if they change compatibility problems they will experience. The second huge group is gamers. For them Linux is the most necessary thing. So let's quickly forget about them too. The Photoshop guys/gals won't switch also for the obvious reasons. You can think "Oh there is another group! Internet surfers, Msn chatters, facebook-twitter users! But know this. Even a different look in the msn client or a simple glitch(like program notifying someone added 2 times) they will start to whine like crazy, curse Linux and immediately return to Windows. Oh and there are some people that only uses Internet Explorer 6 and Bing.(even the computer is crawling with ads, slows down and i suggest Firefox + Adblock, they won't listen.)

Believe me i've seen all of this. They just can't see a reason to use Linux. Instead formatting everytime is easier, or living like that.

But the most horrible thing is not yet came. Myriad of people never heard of Linux. We are living in a secret society.

You deserve a medal.

[Thewhistlingwind]

Linux on the desktop makes more sense when you approach it like this:

Linux has 1/5/8% market share for a reason. Thats the number of people who know what the **** they're doing. (Or WANT to know what the **** they're doing.)

99/95/92% or so of people actually shouldn't own a computer (In the sense that they would not be one of the uber-nerds who'd own one if they hadn't of taken off as much as they had.), it just happens to do a few things they like (Email, Facebook/etc, Instant messaging, games, work stuff, and other mundane things.).

My dad used internet explorer for years (He later switched to chrome cause someone talked about it on TV.) because "Firefox wouldn't download things right", and he stopped running antivirus cause "It slows down the computer to much." (At which point I mentioned that I'm a Linux user for a reason.)

Only geeks use Linux, because only geeks care about what it brings to the table.

Yes, no viruses, insane configuration, software freedom, all the things that make Linux great, most people don't value above platform superiority.

People in windows hell probably deserve it, you can hope, you can campaign, but don't expect results.

If Linux really wants users, it should go march over to windows and kill all it's proprietary software offerings, replace them all, one by one. The same strategy that killed almost every proprietary Unix .

[8_Bit]

Linux could become big if the big companies like Novell, Redhat, and Canonical paid off the proprietary software developers to develop only for the Linux platform. This happens all the time in the video game industry - Microsoft and Sony regularly make deals with developers to get games exclusive to their system. I know this sounds shady, but it works. People end up buying a console JUST for that one new Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid game.

If you want to compete with Microsoft and Apple you're going to have to be dirty just like them. You can't win by being a nice guy in the business world.

In the end it's ALL about software. If your platform has the software people want, people will flock to it. Period! Regardless of how that software was developed or obtained. Do you really think the average Joe cares that your software is open source? Not really. They just want it to work and function with all their devices, and to look pretty.

[Simian Man]

You think the people who use Windows XP will know or care that it is unsupported? Unless Microsoft remotely disables their PCs, they will see no reason to upgrade in 2014 if they haven't yet.

[tumbes2000]

It will be tough to get people to switch no doubt about it. Probably the most important avenue is to target businesses, primarily those that mainly use MS Office suite. If businesses are comfortable that LibreOffice can be compatible with MS Office then there could be a strong argument for them to switch, lower costs, less chance your employees screw up your systems, etc. Once people use the system at their work (forced on them) then they would be more comfortable considering Ubuntu. Businesses can lower their costs and have a more secure office environment.

[KiwiNZ]

The big majority of users still on XP are Corporates, e.g IBM to name one. The reason for Corporates still using XP is fiscal viability of change. To many, the cost of upgrade is not justified and the Capital expenditure is better utilised in more pressing areas or areas that have revenue gain potential. It is still not convincing to many CFO's and until it is they will stay with XP, they will not change to Linux.

As for the remainder of users, of which a big majority are gamers and Linux is a non starter for them, the rest are users that probably know little about upgrading or the inner workings of their PC's and again they will not select a fringe OS to change to, they will buy a new PC with Windows preinstalled or a Mac as it is a shiny funky PC at the forefront of their favourite Appliance retailer.

[snowpine]

Wow, I had no idea there was such an "us vs. them" mentality that people somehow need to be tricked or coerced into switching from Windows to Linux. Most of my family and friends use Windows--for legitimate reasons--and I don't give them grief over their choice. :(

[SeijiSensei]

Until someone shows me real figures from reputable user surveys, I will continue to doubt the often-repeated claim that "a big majority [of non-corporate Windows users] are gamers" as KiwiNZ puts it. As far as I can tell, these claims are largely based on anecdotal evidence of the form, "My friends and I all play games on the computer, so I guess most people use Windows to play games." Ask your Windows-using parents and their friends whether they play games on the computer; then ask your grandparents.

For most of its lifetime, the most popular game on Windows was Solitaire. I suspect that's still true.

[aysiu]

Until someone shows me real figures from reputable user surveys, I will continue to doubt the often-repeated claim that "a big majority [of non-corporate Windows users] are gamers" as KiwiNZ puts it. As far as I can tell, these claims are largely based on anecdotal evidence of the form, "My friends and I all play games on the computer, so I guess most people use Windows to play games." Ask your Windows-using parents and their friends whether they play games on the computer; then ask your grandparents.

For most of its lifetime, the most popular game on Windows was Solitaire. I suspect that's still true.
I agree, and I wrote a bit about it (with actual cited stats) five years ago: Gaining Perspective on PC Gaming (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/gaining-perspective-on-pc-gaming/)

I haven't seen any compelling evidence that anything has changed significantly on that front, unless it's significantly away from traditional PC gaming and more to tablet and smartphone games.

[KiwiNZ]

Until someone shows me real figures from reputable user surveys, I will continue to doubt the often-repeated claim that "a big majority [of non-corporate Windows users] are gamers" as KiwiNZ puts it. As far as I can tell, these claims are largely based on anecdotal evidence of the form, "My friends and I all play games on the computer, so I guess most people use Windows to play games." Ask your Windows-using parents and their friends whether they play games on the computer; then ask your grandparents.

For most of its lifetime, the most popular game on Windows was Solitaire. I suspect that's still true.

I said this " big majority are gamers and Linux is a non starter for them, the rest are users that probably know little about upgrading or the inner workings of their PC's "so that is more than one group. I do not play games.

[jhonan]

I said this " big majority are gamers and Linux is a non starter for them, the rest are users that probably know little about upgrading or the inner workings of their PC's "so that is more than one group. I do not play games.

But it's the 'big majority' claim that's questionable. I'd say sales of Windows+Office probably breaks down something like this;

1) Corporate / Enterprise customers
2) OEM sales (Dell etc.)
3) Off-the-shelf computer store (a very distant third)

Of group 2), a large number of these are consumers shopping for an 'appliance' to get them onto the internet, students, and home office workers. Somewhere in *this* group we have people who occasionally game (tending more towards web-based games), and somewhere down the bottom we have people who either buy a PC pre-loaded with windows to mostly play games, or buy off-the-shelf windows to load onto their hand-built system to play games.

The rest go and buy a console.

So if anything, it's a minority.

[jeffathehutt]

Wow, I had no idea there was such an "us vs. them" mentality that people somehow need to be tricked or coerced into switching from Windows to Linux. Most of my family and friends use Windows--for legitimate reasons--and I don't give them grief over their choice. :(

My thoughts exactly. I can't name a single person I know who uses linux besides me, and I have never once tried to shove linux in their face. If they ask about it, I tell. But otherwise, I let them make their choice and they let me make my choice. :)

[exploder]

Linux has no opportunity so long as distributions keep releasing with the number of bugs and regressions they currently have. PCLinuxOS is the only distribution that could compete with Microsoft. Enough said.

[KiwiNZ]

But it's the 'big majority' claim that's questionable. I'd say sales of Windows+Office probably breaks down something like this;

1) Corporate / Enterprise customers
2) OEM sales (Dell etc.)
3) Off-the-shelf computer store (a very distant third)

Of group 2), a large number of these are consumers shopping for an 'appliance' to get them onto the internet, students, and home office workers. Somewhere in *this* group we have people who occasionally game (tending more towards web-based games), and somewhere down the bottom we have people who either buy a PC pre-loaded with windows to mostly play games, or buy off-the-shelf windows to load onto their hand-built system to play games.

The rest go and buy a console.

So if anything, it's a minority.

Read again my original post, comprehend, then respond.

[uRock]

I can +1 that. Mostly every PC geek I know is a gamer. Everyone else just wants a system that works on its own and do not care to learn about drivers. They want everything to be plug and play, which is why they use Windows or Mac.

[jhonan]

Linux has no opportunity so long as distributions keep releasing with the number of bugs and regressions they currently have. PCLinuxOS is the only distribution that could compete with Microsoft. Enough said.

No, that's not it either.

Look at the problems with Vista, and yet it was still released. And got installed on millions of PCs. How did that happen?

And how did Google manage to build what amounts to a distro and ship it loaded onto millions of devices in a matter of a couple of years?

You could make the most perfect, user-friendly, fastest, lightest distro in the Universe, and still not make a dent in the OS market.

What you need is to get it on devices, market it, and get it into the hands of consumers.

If 'stealing' market share from Microsoft really was Ubuntu's primary objective. Which I don't think it is.

[jhonan]

Read again my original post, comprehend, then respond.
Okay, point taken. The quote was out of context. What you actually said was that a big majority of the remainder of users (excluding corporate users) still on XP are gamers.

So when you narrow it down that far... then yeah. :P

[KiwiNZ]

I also do not believe there is or has been an opportunity for Linux on the Desktop under it's current business model.

[Macskeeball]

If 'stealing' market share from Microsoft really was Ubuntu's primary objective. Which I don't think it is.

See Bug #1 (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1)

[jhonan]

See Bug #1 (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1)

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. Then I need some time to think about Canonical's strategy before replying. Cause it's just not making sense to me anymore.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I checked some statistics of people visiting my website for the last 30 days. Only 27% are running Windows XP. 41% are running either Windows 7 or Vista. 16% are running a Mac OS. 6% are running Linux. The remaining 10% is unknown because they don't allow JavaScript to run or they have some other software that blocks the information from being collected.

The use of Windows XP is dropping over time. By 2014, I think the Windows XP population will be so small as to have little effect on the adoption of Linux.

I see the shift from Windows XP to Windows 7 as not being a conscious choice; but rather, that is what comes what the computer.

[sdowney717]

ubuntu bloats up and takes more power to run with most every upgrade. I noticed a slow down after moving to the last release.

[Thewhistlingwind]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. Then I need some time to think about Canonical's strategy before replying. Cause it's just not making sense to me anymore.

Thats because canonicals strategy is yet to be seen. They claim they want 200M users in five years, so as far as I see it, canonical is probably working with OEM's behind the scenes to deliver Ubuntu/Linux compatible builds.

If they're not doing this, they have no strategy, and I fear we may see them die as a company.

[Paqman]

I agree, and I wrote a bit about it (with actual cited stats) five years ago: Gaining Perspective on PC Gaming (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/gaining-perspective-on-pc-gaming/)

I haven't seen any compelling evidence that anything has changed significantly on that front, unless it's significantly away from traditional PC gaming and more to tablet and smartphone games.

A bit odd to only consider people spending 10 hours a week to be "gamers" though. That's a hell of a lot, 1-2 hours every single day. Those folks are at the extreme end of the curve, there's likely to be a much larger bump in the middle of the spread of time spent gaming.

If you take the 42% who play over 4 hours a weeks of the 40% who play games you get nearly 17% of adults, which is a pretty decent chunk in my book.

You're right about the PC gaming industry being dwarfed by the consoles these days. PC gaming is strong in a couple of areas (simulation, RTS, MMO/RPG) but the consoles with their FPS games are where the money is.

[Khakilang]

I switch to Linux because my Window XP is getting sluggish with all the data build overtime. Upgrade to 2GB helps a bit but not ideal. I am also a bit reluctant to switch to Vista because of its size and need to invest on a new computer which I don't have much budget to work on. So I end up witt Ubuntu which is lightweight enough for me to maintain my current hardware and access to all my data. If it is getting bloated I might switch to another lightweight distro to maintain my computer for as long as possible. But I seriously doubt that 2014 is the year for Linux desktop because Microsoft actually do their homework.

[aysiu]

I also do not believe there is or has been an opportunity for Linux on the Desktop under it's current business model.
If by "current business model" you mean "asking people to download .iso files and install and configure the operating system themselves," I fully agree.

It doesn't matter how "user-friendly" or "compatible" you make Ubuntu or any other desktop/laptop/netbook Linux distro. If people get it mainly themselves or through a badly implemented OEM offering, people just aren't going to get it.

Android went from 0 to 60 in only a couple years. Chromebooks may go from 0 to 20 in a couple of years. Unless Ubuntu drastically changes its approach, it'll go from 1 to 2 in a few years, the same way it went from 0 to 1 in the last six years.

You don't solve Bug #1 by changing the interface and adding a few more point-and-click menus. You solve Bug #1 by partnering with OEMs to release a Ubuntu-specific physical product that is well-implemented, properly marketed, and competitively priced.

[jhonan]

You don't solve Bug #1 by changing the interface and adding a few more point-and-click menus. You solve Bug #1 by partnering with OEMs to release a Ubuntu-specific physical product that is well-implemented, properly marketed, and competitively priced.
Yes, yes, and yes again. I couldn't +1 this statement more if I tried.

[KiwiNZ]

If by "current business model" you mean "asking people to download .iso files and install and configure the operating system themselves," I fully agree.

It doesn't matter how "user-friendly" or "compatible" you make Ubuntu or any other desktop/laptop/netbook Linux distro. If people get it mainly themselves or through a badly implemented OEM offering, people just aren't going to get it.

Android went from 0 to 60 in only a couple years. Chromebooks may go from 0 to 20 in a couple of years. Unless Ubuntu drastically changes its approach, it'll go from 1 to 2 in a few years, the same way it went from 0 to 1 in the last six years.

You don't solve Bug #1 by changing the interface and adding a few more point-and-click menus. You solve Bug #1 by partnering with OEMs to release a Ubuntu-specific physical product that is well-implemented, properly marketed, and competitively priced.

Yes, and a few others, like, the flooding of the market with Distributions this just fragments the industry and makes consumer choice too confusing. Another is the technical aspects such has Install and application adding, the current is fine for the technical savvy but if we are to move beyond 1% we need to make it easy for consumer to do the tasks.

The Windows system may not technically be the best but from a consumer friendly perspective it is very good and is one of the factors that help Windows maintain it's dominance. The Apple method is another good example of how to do better for teh consumer.

Also, the six monthly release cycle needs to be reconsidered and moved to twelve of twenty four to allow time for better quality releases.

We have been banging away with the current system and our growth on teh Desktop is negligible, this shows the need for change.

Finally attitudes, like when someone complains about ubuntu or Fedora or Suse it is a gift not an attack, it's an opportunity to look listen and if required learn from that users experience instead of putting up the defenses.

[aysiu]

Yes, and a few others, like, the flooding of the market with Distributions this just fragments the industry and makes consumer choice too confusing. That is a real problem, but I think a well-implemented and well-marketed physical product with Ubuntu preinstalled will make the other distributions moot, anyway. If consumers have a choice between this well-configured complete product that uses a Linux distribution and just some random .iso to download off the internet, the vast majority will choose the complete product.


Another is the technical aspects such has Install and application adding, the current is fine for the technical savvy but if we are to move beyond 1% we need to make it easy for consumer to do the tasks. Once again, it depends on how it's marketed. If it's marketed as a Windows replacement, people will expect it to behave like Windows, and they'll just start downloading random .tar.gz files from random websites. With the advent of the iTunes App Store, Mac App Store, Amazon AppStore, and Android Market, non-Linux geeks have gotten used to the idea of centralized repositories (even if they don't call it that).

Android has been quite successful, even though its quantity and quality of apps has trailed iOS's for a while now. I can't get Netflix on my Android phone, but I still love Android, and so do a bunch of others. As long as you don't create the expectation that every single app will run on Ubuntu, people won't complain... as much.



Also, the six monthly release cycle needs to be reconsidered and moved to twelve of twenty four to allow time for better quality releases. Definitely. Ubuntu advertises every new release as stable, but when new users complain, a lot of long-time forum members will chastise the new users and say "Why are you using the latest release? Use an LTS?" even though nowhere on the Ubuntu site does it say "If you want stable, use an LTS. Don't use the latest version--it's just a beta."


We have been banging away with the current system and our growth on teh Desktop is negligible, this shows the need for change. Except I could have told Mark Shuttleworth that years ago. In fact, I did. (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/ubuntu-the-open-source-apple-challenger/)


Finally attitudes, like when someone complains about ubuntu or Fedora or Suse it is a gift not an attack, it's an opportunity to look listen and if required learn from that users experience instead of putting up the defenses. Well, part of the problem is that these complaints are directed at people who don't have the authority or knowledge to fix the things complained about. I'm more than happy to say "Yes, that needs to be fixed," but that won't fixed what's being complained about.

[1clue]

There are quite a few things about this discussion that bother me.


The misconception that Linux needs fewer distributions in order to avoid confusion. I submit that there are almost exactly as many distributions as we (the world) need at any given time, and each distribution has exactly as many people using it as it deserves to have. Each distribution focuses on a different problem and solves it in its own way, according to the wants of the contributors. Users use it or not based on the value they see and the pain they need to go through to get it. This is need driven design (NDD) rather than marketing driven design (MDD). If you want Enterprise software you have a choice of RHEL or Suse or a few others, based on what you feel is important. If you want easy but no monetary fees, you can get Ubuntu. If you want to control every little thing, you get Gentoo or similar. People don't complain that there are too many auto manufacturers or too many models to choose from, they will gladly shop as long as it takes to find what fits them best.
The misconception that the average Linux distribution has a "market." How much did you pay for Ubuntu? If you want to get people to use your particular flavor then start offering support and hiring marketing people. Lo and behold, to do that you need MONEY! Start charging for it! Nothing wrong with that, RHEL and Suse do it.
Linux is not and should not try to be the one operating system for the masses. Let Microsoft be alone in the delusion that one OS can be all things to all people. The only thing that will ever get you is a product that does nothing really well for anyone.


Marketing Driven Design approaches software development by asking, "what will get us more money?" Need Driven Design approaches software development by somebody's frustration with or desire to improve a particular aspect or provide a particular service because they themselves need that thing.

MDD adds features in order to look better on a comparison checklist.

NDD adds features because somebody wanted it badly enough to either code it themselves or hire somebody else to code it.

Most people don't know and don't want to know about how their computer works. Those people do not care and should not have to care what's under the covers. I submit that it doesn't really matter what operating system is under there. In those cases it's up to the manufacturer to choose something appropriate and I think more and more of the appliances out there are using Linux or some other Open Source platform. Good for them!

I think this thread needs to be in the recurring discussions section.

[KiwiNZ]

Most people don't know and don't want to know about how their computer works. Those people do not care and should not have to care what's under the covers. I submit that it doesn't really matter what operating system is under there. In those cases it's up to the manufacturer to choose something appropriate and I think more and more of the appliances out there are using Linux or some other Open Source platform. Good for them!

\

You have just presented a strong argument against Linux.

[1clue]

You have just presented a strong argument against Linux.

Yes I did.

I do not in any way condone a single operating system to fit all needs.

Linux is the best of UNIX-compatible operating systems. Its open source nature makes it an ideal reflection of the needs of the people who use it.

It is an expert system. Don't trash it up with a bunch of the crap that makes Windows into the multipurpose operating system we all know and love.

The worst thing we can do as a community is try to chase features we see in Windows. Microsoft knows people will buy their junk. They add features just so they can list them in an advertisement, whether people even know what it's for or not. A decade or more ago I browsed through the commands in Microsoft Word. Most of them had no way to activate them in a default installation. There were no control keys or menu options to get there. But they had the feature, they paid somebody to put it there and there is absolutely no way any other company could have all those features, so Microsoft can always make a comparison checklist showing Word to be "superior" to any other editor. Never mind that nobody knows about or cares about those features.

[smd0665]

At this point the ONLY thing I use my Windows XP partition for is editing video with Pinnacle Studio 14. When it comes to video editing, I haven't found any Linux program that does everything I need. Hopefully, there will be a comparable program by 2014. I hate having to use my Windows partition and will not upgrade to Windows 7 (or 8 or whatever).

[kaldor]

At this point the ONLY thing I use my Windows XP partition for is editing video with Pinnacle Studio 14. When it comes to video editing, I haven't found any Linux program that does everything I need. Hopefully, there will be a comparable program by 2014. I hate having to use my Windows partition and will not upgrade to Windows 7 (or 8 or whatever).

Check my comments in the Video Editor advice thread in the Cafe :)

Maybe a dual boot with Mac OS X would be a good choice for you, since OS X is a great system.

[smd0665]

Check my comments in the Video Editor advice thread in the Cafe :)

Hey, OpenShot looks promising! Thanks!

[Triblaze]

Ubuntu will start gaining significant market share when a significant number of computers come pre-installed with it and there's some basic advertising so people at least know it exists.

The average user just wants something that does the basics for them and works, they'll take what they're given. If they're given Windows, the average user will see no reason to switch, even if there are problems so long as they aren't severely detrimental to the computer. If they're given Ubuntu from the get go, a lot of people will learn it and use it.

[nec207]

Windows vista did alot of damage to Microsoft.And so many people gone back to windows XP or gone the Linux or Mac way.

But windows 7 shines of the best OS Microsoft made .Windows 8 looks like it will be really bad worse than windows vista.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

...Windows 8 looks like it will be really bad worse than windows vista.

Actually, Windows 8 looks a lot like Unity or GENOME 3; however, it may actually be better implemented from what I have seen.

[nec207]

Actually, Windows 8 looks a lot like Unity or GENOME 3; however, it may actually be better implemented from what I have seen.

It seems every other OS Microsoft brings out is full of bugs and most are not fixed to SP1 or SP2.

[don_quixote]

Ubuntu will start gaining significant market share when a significant number of computers come pre-installed with it and there's some basic advertising so people at least know it exists.

The average user just wants something that does the basics for them and works, they'll take what they're given. If they're given Windows, the average user will see no reason to switch, even if there are problems so long as they aren't severely detrimental to the computer. If they're given Ubuntu from the get go, a lot of people will learn it and use it.


Very true. I think Linux will be lucky to crack 5% share, but then again, I don't really care. It does what I need it to do perfectly, it has a big enough share of developers that it has a good future. Oh, and the fragmentation does not bother me -- like another user said, I like choice.

[Lucradia]

Lots of people still use Windows 2000, just so you know, especially government offices, job centers, College Campuses, etc.

Mainly because they can't afford better computers. (This also makes them lean more toward older apple computers.)

[Famicube64]

It seems every other OS Microsoft brings out is full of bugs and most are not fixed to SP1 or SP2.
Compared to Ubuntu where it's released at beta quality (if you guys are lucky) and buggy until the next version is released? I realize that there are LTS versions.

[Quadunit404]

Compared to Ubuntu where it's released at beta quality (if you guys are lucky) and buggy until the next version is released? I realize that there are LTS versions.

+1 to that. I was an early adopter of Windows 7 (tbh I enjoy being an early adopter of things for some reason) and had a smoother, much less buggy and beta-quality experience than Ubuntu (which I began experimenting with in virtual machines around the same time)... and back then I was using the Windows 7 release candidate on terrible hardware.

[phosphide]

Also, with the introduction of Office 365, businesses will now have the opportunity to run microsoft office through a browser. Definitely a win for linux users who have been craving ms office and a good opportunity for businesses to save on licenses. Could see a big win there.

[beew]

Compared to Ubuntu where it's released at beta quality (if you guys are lucky) and buggy until the next version is released? I realize that there are LTS versions.

That is gross exaggeration Yes, it is buggy on first release but then if you wait a month or so most bugs would be worked out, you don't need to wait six months for the next version (and even 6 months is a very short time in MS's release and upgrade time scale)

[Lucradia]

Also, with the introduction of Office 365, businesses will now have the opportunity to run microsoft office through a browser. Definitely a win for linux users who have been craving ms office and a good opportunity for businesses to save on licenses. Could see a big win there.

What technology does it require? Silverlight? :P

[phosphide]

What technology does it require? Silverlight? :P

Haha, this is true. As far as I know it doesn't require Silverlight. I believe it will essentially be the same as the current skydrive scenario.

Though, if it does require a silverlight plugin, we are screwed.

[kvv_1986]

My experience with installing Linux on old hardware is less than pleasant. I did it when I was broke, but with the prices of modern hardware I can't see why anyone would expect to make a 3-year-old box into something truly interesting again, unless you're a genuine geek who just gets a kick out of that.


I am running Kubuntu with full desktop effects and everything on a 3 year old laptop, no problem. I expect my hardware to die earlier than when modern software becomes unusable on it.

Btw, if you are ever planning to throw away your 3 year old computer, let me know. ;)

[kaldor]

Haha, this is true. As far as I know it doesn't require Silverlight. I believe it will essentially be the same as the current skydrive scenario.

Though, if it does require a silverlight plugin, we are screwed.

Works fine in my browsers here. Firefox on Natty and Fedora.

[3rdalbum]

If people are hanging onto Windows XP for this long, they're obviously resistant to change. Linux is not an appropriate environment for someone resistant to change, especially not Ubuntu where there's a new version every 6 months.

[ninjaaron]

Wow, I had no idea there was such an "us vs. them" mentality...
really?


Windows 8 is coming next year, and I'm sure it will be heavier than XP and possibly heavier than Windows 7.

Frankly, I'm surprised nobody has questioned this presupposition yet. Windows 8 is primarily based on paradigms from the mobile platform, which are significantly lighter than most PC DE's. It looks like it's working a lot with tiling and won't have as much need for compositing and other window effects. If this is the core environment, rather than being a UI layer slapped on top of Areo, it will almost certainly be lighter on resources than Windows 7 and quite possibly than XP. If that is the case, it will be up to MS to keep heavy background processes to a minimum and it will be gravy.

[ninjaaron]

Wow, I had no idea there was such an "us vs. them" mentality...
Are you saying that rhetorically, or did you seriously not know?

Windows 8 is coming next year, and I'm sure it will be heavier than XP and possibly heavier than Windows 7.

I find it interesting that nobody has question this presupposition yet. Windows 8 is going to be based around a lot of paradigms from the mobile arena, and the mockups look like there is a lot more like tiling window management without much need for heavy compositing or other wind effects. I wouldn't be surprised to see Windows 8 go down a weight-class from 7 and to be at least comparable to XP in the resource management, assuming MS can keep bloaty background services to a minimum.

[Triblaze]

If people are hanging onto Windows XP for this long, they're obviously resistant to change. Linux is not an appropriate environment for someone resistant to change, especially not Ubuntu where there's a new version every 6 months.
Well, actually, I think most of the people hanging onto XP are less experienced users, and for them, it's not that they resist change, it's that they see no reason to change. As long as their computer is still functioning, even if poorly, they don't see why they'd upgrade.

[Linuxratty]

Well, good luck to us.

I agree...I'm not holding my breath since Microsoft and Apple have been really good at hogging the whole pie for themselves..I don't see that changing. It would be nice to be proven wrong on this one.
What Ubuntu needs to do is open Ubuntu stores just like Apple has done and push harder to get it in schools and libraries..And advertising,oh yeah,that too.



You don't solve Bug #1 by changing the interface and adding a few more point-and-click menus. You solve Bug #1 by partnering with OEMs to release a Ubuntu-specific physical product that is well-implemented, properly marketed, and competitively priced.


And you fix bugs that just won't die like the Nividia driver thing. Also.you have a version that does not become obsolete so soon put on machines sold in shops.

[Aquix]

The year of linux now again?

Linux community needs to be more confident and don't compare to others all the time. That is the real problem in my view.

[beew]

I am running Kubuntu with full desktop effects and everything on a 3 year old laptop, no problem. I expect my hardware to die earlier than when modern software becomes unusable on it.

Btw, if you are ever planning to throw away your 3 year old computer, let me know. ;)

A 3 year old laptop is "old"??? I am not sure what do you use your laptop for.

But anyway, I run Ubuntu (10.04, 10.10 and 11.04) on a 6 year old beaten up Dell and everything works out of the box, with full desktop effects (Compiz and now Unity). I think that one is "old". :)

[snowpine]

Are you saying that rhetorically, or did you seriously not know?

Seriously did not know. Some of the comments in this thread shocked me.

[XubuRoxMySox]

It is curious in the extreme that so many zealots want people to change from Windows to Linux - yet they can't bear any change at all in their distro's default desktop or default seetings or choice of default applications.

"Take you are given and learn to like it" is one of our biggest complaints against Windows and Mac (not entirely accurate either). We brag about Linux' infinite adaptivity and configurability, yet we whine when someone makes any change to out per (fill in the blank: distro, DE, favorite application, etc).

Fanboi though I may be, I can't understand such resistance to change among people who are so anxious for others to make a far more substantial change, from Windows / OSX to Linux.

Resistance is futile. Change is inevitable. Growth is life. Inflexability is stagnation.

-Robin

[1clue]

It is curious in the extreme that so many zealots want people to change from Windows to Linux - yet they can't bear any change at all in their distro's default desktop or default seetings or choice of default applications.


+ 1 million.



"Take you are given and learn to like it" is one of our biggest complaints against Windows and Mac (not entirely accurate either). We brag about Linux' infinite adaptivity and configurability, yet we whine when someone makes any change to out per (fill in the blank: distro, DE, favorite application, etc).

Fanboi though I may be, I can't understand such resistance to change among people who are so anxious for others to make a far more substantial change, from Windows / OSX to Linux.

Resistance is futile. Change is inevitable. Growth is life. Inflexability is stagnation.

-Robin

FWIW OSX to Linux is not much of a change at all. I run both. I like both.

IMO the biggest problem people have with Windows is they leave the OEM software on it. The first thing they do should be to buy a pure release of whatever (OK maybe not Vista) and take it home with their new system, and never boot off the hard drive. Just wipe it off and stick an untarnished operating system on it.

In my job I test my company's software on the operating systems our customers use. The list is short, but my point is that what we do is install a virtual machine with whatever operating system on it, and then run our app on that. Generally what you get is snappy and stable. It's not so much the Microsoft part that sucks, it's the vendor trash demo-ware that comes with it.

Don't get me wrong, I still don't think Microsoft makes decent operating systems. I'm just saying it sucks far less than the extra junk that vendors pay the manufacturers to put on the drive.

[dniMretsaM]

It is curious in the extreme that so many zealots want people to change from Windows to Linux - yet they can't bear any change at all in their distro's default desktop or default seetings or choice of default applications.

"Take you are given and learn to like it" is one of our biggest complaints against Windows and Mac (not entirely accurate either). We brag about Linux' infinite adaptivity and configurability, yet we whine when someone makes any change to out per (fill in the blank: distro, DE, favorite application, etc).

Fanboi though I may be, I can't understand such resistance to change among people who are so anxious for others to make a far more substantial change, from Windows / OSX to Linux.

Resistance is futile. Change is inevitable. Growth is life. Inflexability is stagnation.

-Robin

I could not agree more! A nice example of this would be the recent change to Unity. This has (obviously) gotten a lot of ink from complainers who don't want the change. Yet a lot of these people want others to make a change 10 times bigger than that. Very hypocritical and it gives a bad rep to the Linux community. The saying "practice what you preach" comes to mind here. If you want people to change, be willing to change yourself.

I know I just kind of said exactly the same thing you did, but if it's worth saying, it's worth saying twice.

[Johnb0y]

It is curious in the extreme that so many zealots want people to change from Windows to Linux - yet they can't bear any change at all in their distro's default desktop or default seetings or choice of default applications. so true... but i say "if we are getting it for free, and people are trying to improve it, then let them, it could be for the better!" change comes with "the unknown"


"Take you are given and learn to like it" is one of our biggest complaints against Windows and Mac couldnt agree more! i think that the "big" comapnies know that and know it too well!


Resistance is futile. Change is inevitable. Growth is life. Inflexability is stagnation. EPIC... people should take note! cause i know i will... LOL!:D

[ki4jgt]

You are aware that ReactOS is attempting to emulate XP and currently, their OS is 50 megs big on CD. It runs on 32 megs RAM, and runs Windows apps natively?

[johnnybgoode83]

It is curious in the extreme that so many zealots want people to change from Windows to Linux - yet they can't bear any change at all in their distro's default desktop or default seetings or choice of default applications.

"Take you are given and learn to like it" is one of our biggest complaints against Windows and Mac (not entirely accurate either). We brag about Linux' infinite adaptivity and configurability, yet we whine when someone makes any change to out per (fill in the blank: distro, DE, favorite application, etc).

Fanboi though I may be, I can't understand such resistance to change among people who are so anxious for others to make a far more substantial change, from Windows / OSX to Linux.

Resistance is futile. Change is inevitable. Growth is life. Inflexability is stagnation.

-Robin

This may be the very definition of an oxymoron.

[sandyd]

You know that a lot of people, like my mom, won't even know that support has ended for windows xp, and will be happy at the fact that windows doesn't offer any more of the "bothersome updates" that require for them to restart, and will just continue using windows xp as is?

[Johnb0y]

You are aware that ReactOS is attempting to emulate XP and currently, their OS is 50 megs big on CD. It runs on 32 megs RAM, and runs Windows apps natively?

this actually looks good! think i will investigate this later with virtualbox!!! thanks.:KS

[1clue]

You know that a lot of people, like my mom, won't even know that support has ended for windows xp, and will be happy at the fact that windows doesn't offer any more of the "bothersome updates" that require for them to restart, and will just continue using windows xp as is?

True that.

FWIW it makes best business sense to use equipment until such time as the failure rate makes an upgrade more worthwhile, or until you need to change something enough that it warrants new equipment anyway. The expensive part is setting it up and training everyone. Once that's done you start making up the costs.

If you never update the software on a system and never exchange files between that system and the rest of the world, it will probably continue to work just as well as it has for the years before. It wasn't that long ago that Internet connections were rare, and people who go by "Mom" or "Dad" to people who already buy their own computers are fairly likely to remember those times.

[ki4jgt]

this actually looks good! think i will investigate this later with virtualbox!!! thanks.:KS

No prob. . . :-) just installed it on my bros 64meg machine. Beware: as it is still in BETA the blue screen of death appears often.

[Johnb0y]

No prob. . . :-) just installed it on my bros 64meg machine. Beware: as it is still in BETA the blue screen of death appears often.


Beware: as it is still in BETA the blue screen of death appears often
will defo! good thing i am going to use it as a VM...lol!

[ScionicSpectre]

I think it's great to inform people about Linux in passive ways (advertising, flyers, explaining when someone is curious), but most people who won't respond to passive methods of spreading Linux aren't going to respond any better to agressive tactics. So I think it would be a good opportunity for businesses to reconsider Linux in 2014, certainly.

But the important thing is that open software and open platforms are available to us in our daily lives. On our desktops, our phones, tablets, and the Web. And I feel that people are caught up in Linux on the desktop when we already 'won' there, and we need to emphasize support in mobile and web for open frameworks. I don't think winning the desktop war is about actually having the majority market share, but being exceptional at fulfilling the needs of users. And Linux already does that very well in many ways that its competitors are constantly adding to their OSes. Many good ideas started in the open source world.

Examples abound- tabs from Firefox, slab menus, HTML, OpenGL, X11, window tiling, dynamic window overviews, workspaces, etc. If you govern the successful pursuit of an opportunity by desktop share, then you could very easily say Mac OS X is a failure just as well as Linux. So yeah, I don't think we have a lot to worry about- so long as we try to shed the ultra-geek ethos behind Linux and encourage people to look at software like Ubuntu and Android as good examples of open technology, I think the main point will come across. We have a lot more people giving us credibility than ever before- the only problem is that Linux as a graphical environment for fun and work is invisible to consumers. All we need is advertising- the big bugs are all gone.

[phosphide]

Works fine in my browsers here. Firefox on Natty and Fedora.
The skydrive works just fine in the browsers. Though I don't know the first thing about the requirements for office 365.

[XubuRoxMySox]

Linux would do alot better on the desktop if developers treated end-users like customers instead of beta testers.

And that is why Linux will never overtake Windows and OSX's share of the desktop market.

-Robin

[ninjaaron]

Linux would do alot better on the desktop if developers treated end-users like customers instead of beta testers.

And that is why Linux will never overtake Windows and OSX's share of the desktop market.

-Robin

False. MS has been treating end users like beta-testers for years. It's the OEM thing.

Plus, desktop Linux users are not customers. How much did you pay for it?

[unknownPoster]

Plus, desktop Linux users are not customers. How much did you pay for it?

This. Unless you pay for a RHEL license or similar, and if that's the case, you are most definitely treated as a customer.

[ki4jgt]

Linux would do alot better on the desktop if developers treated end-users like customers instead of beta testers.

And that is why Linux will never overtake Windows and OSX's share of the desktop market.

-Robin

The two comments above are input, but this is inquiry. How has Linux treated us like BETA users?

[XubuRoxMySox]

How has Linux treated us like BETA users?

I guess my remarks were too general. I can give some examples, though:

Fedora may be seen as the "beta testing ground" for RHEL. Ubuntu's regular releases may be seen as "testing ground" for the LTS releases. Or in the case of Unity, for a whole 'nother innovation. Debian Testing is - well, testing! For the Stable releases.

These are not bad things, nor was my remark meant to be a negative criticism. We aren't "customers" in the usual sense of the word, of course. So we aren't treated like customers. That's fine. I have no problem with that, nor do I need nor expect to be treated like a "paying customer."

I simply observed that because we aren't customers, and because we are "beta testers" (at least the majority of us), Linux will never overtake OSes that accept payment and that provide "customer service."

'Tis a mere observation, not a criticism nor an attack. Just a semi-educated opinion. I have no objection to being "treated like a tester," since I enjoy an awesome free OS that has huge advantages over the proprietary one I was bound to before.

Loyal to Linux,
Robin

[1clue]

I guess my remarks were too general. I can give some examples, though:

...

Loyal to Linux,
Robin

This still makes no sense in the way you're saying it.

Ubuntu lets you choose which is more important: New features or stability. People may choose wrongly, but that is not the fault of the distro.

I think that the core issue you're trying to point out is that Ubuntu doesn't have a huge bank of professional staff to develop, build and test a single image on lots of different hardware the way Microsoft or Apple does, with a concerted intent to market it as a whole.

As you pointed out, some distros do that. RHEL, Suse as examples. But RedHat almost certainly doesn't use their free distro as a testing ground for RHEL, and I can support that with facts.

Personally I choose my distro specifically to NOT have that sort of concerted effort. I guarantee that my installation doesn't look like your installation, and I really don't want somebody else picking my software for me.

A Linux distro is a dynamic thing. New kernel releases come out to support new hardware and new protocols. New libraries come out to support or implement the kernel features or develop new features that don't really depend on the kernel. New apps come out because that's what apps do.

The old-school Linux user had some goal in mind. For example, they wanted an Apache web server, or a mail server, or maybe both. Or, we can't ever forget the original intent of education and experimentation. They looked at the features, chose a "brand" based on feature set, stability and performance requirements, and then chose a version based on similar things. Then they built the box to support all that.

Distros do the same sort of thing. They choose what sort of things are more important to the distro, and then they gather a community of similar-minded users who are willing to help out. Ubuntu focuses on ease of installation and ease of use. Gentoo focuses on flexibility and source-based building. RHEL and Suse focus on enterprise return on investment. RedHat has a different focus than RHEL.

For each distro, the list of priorities and the order of the priorities drives the decisions made for what software is installed and how smooth the rough edges are.

This is a whole lot for a new user to figure out. Any Linux distro is a major undertaking to figure out, even Ubuntu. Those of us old-timers relish the idea of figuring out another distro, but some people just want to get the thing to work.

Really though, the only difference between any distro A and B goes something like this:

The package management
The decision points to determine what software goes on and how much of what sort of configuration comes standard.
The decision points to determine what version is "production"
The level and type of support offered.


When you get down to it, Apache2 is Apache2 no matter if it's on Ubuntu or Gentoo or Windows or Mac or AS/400.

[boydrice]

I frankly don't understand the perception that people need to be liberated from Windows. The only PC I personally owned that had Windows on it was a crappy emachine with Windows ME. It was horrible, I hated it and frankly didn't enjoy computing but if other people like Windows or Mac who cares. I will run Linux and be happy, and when they want me to fix their screwed up Windows PC I will, and if they want my advice I will tell them I use Linux. There isn't a company that wants to go to battle against Mircosoft on the desktop, they see the mobile market as one where the hardware vendors can even the scale with MS. The year of the Linux desktop already happened, it just wasn't what you expected.

[ki4jgt]

I guess my remarks were too general. I can give some examples, though:

Fedora may be seen as the "beta testing ground" for RHEL. Ubuntu's regular releases may be seen as "testing ground" for the LTS releases. Or in the case of Unity, for a whole 'nother innovation. Debian Testing is - well, testing! For the Stable releases.

These are not bad things, nor was my remark meant to be a negative criticism. We aren't "customers" in the usual sense of the word, of course. So we aren't treated like customers. That's fine. I have no problem with that, nor do I need nor expect to be treated like a "paying customer."

I simply observed that because we aren't customers, and because we are "beta testers" (at least the majority of us), Linux will never overtake OSes that accept payment and that provide "customer service."

'Tis a mere observation, not a criticism nor an attack. Just a semi-educated opinion. I have no objection to being "treated like a tester," since I enjoy an awesome free OS that has huge advantages over the proprietary one I was bound to before.

Loyal to Linux,
Robin

I've made the same statement before :-) Linux is not money driven. It has no incentive to satisfy it's users. It's users must satisfy themselves. However, most other oss even paid ones are like this to an extent.