US military just months away from algae based fuels for planes

[sdowney717]

the algae oil production for military purposes is starting to happen right now. and soon they will be increasing production for their own uses. and the article does mention civilian benefits.
It appears we are at the beginning of a new fuel revolution where we will be able to efficiently grow enough oil to start replacing fossil fuels. And the interest is definitely been growing to see that done sooner than later. If you follow the technology, DARPA came out with a significant production breakthrough process within the last 2 years as the article makes passing mention.

http://buildaroo.com/news/article/pentagon-algae-biofuel/


But the U.S. military is now "months away" from deriving jet fuel from algae ponds, according to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). The advantages of oil independence for the U.S. military are obvious, but the algae fuel is also, well, green. It offers lower carbon emissions than oil-derived jet fuel, and will be mass-produced at about three dollars per gallon ("crude" algae oil has already been extracted for two dollars per gallon.) And since the Pentagon does things on a big scale, the mass-production technology holds the tantalizing promise of a big boost to the commercial biofuel industry.


http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20053868-54.html

The U.S. has enough land in the right climate to produce homegrown algae oil that would replace a significant amount of foreign oil imported for transportation use--without endangering its water supply.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

The United States Department of Energy estimates that if algae fuel replaced all the petroleum fuel in the United States, it would require 15,000 square miles (39,000 km2) which is only 0.42% of the U.S. map.[9] This is less than 1⁄7 the area of corn harvested in the United States in 2000.[10] However, these claims remain unrealized, commercially. According to the head of the Algal Biomass Organization algae fuel can reach price parity with oil in 2018 if granted production tax credits.[11]

If you chart or follow the price of food corn wheat etc..., you will see that FOOD has gone up significantly since the US mandated ethanol production to feed out cars which is now being shown to cause starvation in some areas where the food price is just too high. Not enough oil, not enough food and high prices. We need to significantly lower the cost of energy or a lot more suffering you will be hearing about around the world.

[Ric_NYC]

My predictions:

1- oil companies will buy the technology... then it will "mysteriously" disappear in a few years.

2- a lot of people complaining about "how much water is used to grow the algae"... They will say that water should be used to grow food and not "fuels".

[mips]

2- a lot of people complaining about "how much water is used to grow the algae"... They will say that water should be used to grow food and not "fuels".

Can't you grow the algea in sea water or processed waste water?

[sdowney717]

Can't you grow the algea in sea water or processed waste water?
yes, that is why it is so much better than corn based ethanol.
food price has gone up so much it is threat to the poor
For a rich person means nothing. But food inflation for say a person in India or Bangladesh, is significant to their total income.


Reuters reports that earlier this month, "the World Bank and other international organizations called on governments to stop their ethanol subsidies because of concerns they were driving up food prices" – and pushing millions of people worldwide into poverty.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/06/record-high-food-prices-blame-corn-bubble#ixzz1QDOiMLkCC

high food cost causes increase in troubles and people start revolutions, die of starvations, etc.. Lots of trouble to go around with high energy and food. So support the imitativeness of these people who are trying to make algae oil.

[Bandit]

This is a good sign. I knew they was working on this while back. Being a Navy Vet I have seen how many gallons a single day of JP5 they can go through on a F18. They can burn over 5000 pounds in about a hour flying around training. Thats a single jet.. At around ~8 pounds per gallon yall can do the math.

Any alternatives is good.

[uRock]

My predictions:

1- oil companies will buy the technology... then it will "mysteriously" disappear in a few years.

2- a lot of people complaining about "how much water is used to grow the algae"... They will say that water should be used to grow food and not "fuels".

1. Yup.

2. Yup. Just look at all the fields used for tobacco instead of food. That is something that really bugs me.

[sdowney717]

2. Yup. Just look at all the fields used for tobacco instead of food. That is something that really bugs me.
yes a legal highly addictive product which causes cancer.

Grandfathered in since the 1600's when the Europeans were hooked on smoking that native american weed Tobacco.

If aspirin was introduced today, it would need a prescription.

USA produced ethanol for cars is a bad mistake which I hope someday gets fixed. It is very very hard to stop something once started, such as a government program, smoking or making alcohol.

[walt.smith1960]

My predictions:

1- oil companies will buy the technology... then it will "mysteriously" disappear in a few years.

2- a lot of people complaining about "how much water is used to grow the algae"... They will say that water should be used to grow food and not "fuels".

I think Exxon is one company running pilot operations with algae. I've heard the yield per acre/hectare is getting high enough to make some economic sense. It'd be interesting to know how the energy density of Bio-Avjet compares to Jet A from petroleum. Alternative fuels research has been going on for some time. The problem has been heat/unit is less than petroleum based fuels so a load of alternative fuel won't go as far as the petroleum based stuff. Nobody wants to reduce the range and/or non-fuel payload of an aircraft if they can possibly help it.

[Ric_NYC]

I like the idea of biofuels, but I think in the future everything will be powered by electricity.

[forrestcupp]

This is good news. Even if it will take 20 more years to get this technology into cars, it's still a good step forward. I totally think algae based fuels are the best option for bio fuels by far.


I like the idea of biofuels, but I think in the future everything will be powered by electricity.
Yeah, but what's going to power the electricity? ;)

[sdowney717]

have to be a fuel cell using a liquid fuel for a plane. No battery can run a plane long enough to safely get there from here.
liquid fuels have a lot of stored energy density, just part of their nature.
There is a new battery idea which uses a replaceable electrolyte-electrode sludge. The idea is when depleted, pump out the old sludge and pump in fresh sludge. the sludge is the electrolyte AND electrode in liquid form separated by a membrane. So positive sludge on one side, negative on the other.
http://www.fastcompany.com/1757655/top-up-your-ev-sir-let-me-just-pump-in-a-new-battery
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/05/startup-24m-hopes-to-commercialize.html

so this idea makes a lot of sense/ Also you can recharge your old sludge by plugging into the grid.


24M intends to greatly reduce the inactive material in a battery. According to estimates in the new paper, its batteries could achieve almost twice the energy densities of today's vehicle battery packs. Batteries with a higher energy density would be smaller and cheaper, which means electric and hybrid cars would be less expensive. The paper estimates that the batteries could cost as little as $250 per kilowatt hour—less than half what they cost now.


Better still, because the "battery" exists as two systems with one to store energy, and the extraction system designed to discharge it, it's easy to remove the "storage" part to replace it. That could mean easily swapping out a charged fuel "tank" in minutes at a filling station, but it could also mean pumping out "spent" fuel, and replacing it with new fully charged battery chemistry. That spent fuel could be charged up at the station, and then injected into the next nearly empty battery that drove up.
Moments to charge your EV instead of hours: Sounds so fabulously useful, and a freakishly brilliant way to tackle the limited range that beleaguers EV design. No wonder the science team is dubbing their odd new battery sludge "Cambridge Crude."

[Ric_NYC]

This is good news. Even if it will take 20 more years to get this technology into cars, it's still a good step forward. I totally think algae based fuels are the best option for bio fuels by far.


Yeah, but what's going to power the electricity? ;)


Optimized solar panels etc... there's a lot energy in the atmosphere.

[sdowney717]

solar energy hits the earth at about 1000 watts per square meter. maybe 1300 watts at the equator. Solar cells right now are around 14 to 20% efficient that you can buy, so now your down to perhaps 200 watts per square meter at the best hoped for situation.
you dont have much surface area on a car and a car needs a lot of watts. so say your car surface gives you a thousand watts. Not enough power go very fast.
1000 watts is 1.3 HP
http://www.unitconversion.org/power/watts-to-horsepowers-conversion.html

Also solar cells need to run perpendicular to the sunlight or energy production falls off fast. So as the sunlight's angle varies the power is going to drop off quickly.

Perhaps theoretically, in the future, you can achieve solar cells efficiency rate of 60% conversion of sunlight to electricity, so a little better but still not enough.

I think solar cells powering a boat is more doable. Look up the sun21. Uses an easily driven catamaran twin hull. Has a large flat area of solar cells on a roof.
http://www.transatlantic21.org/
http://www.solarnavigator.net/transatlantic_21.htm
A boat goes slow, just keeps going all the time and can have a very large surface area.
http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/Sun_21_transatlantic_solar_catamaran.jpg

Right now costs are way too high to even think the average person could afford this.

[forrestcupp]

solar energy hits the earth at about 1000 watts per square meter. maybe 1300 watts at the equator. Solar cells right now are around 14 to 20% efficient that you can buy, so now your down to perhaps 200 watts per square meter at the best hoped for situation.

I doubt if cars will ever run directly off of solar power. It would have to be a setup where it has a battery that charges during downtime, then lasts for a certain amount of driving. It might be cool to have some kind of hybrid like that where the battery doesn't need to be recharged by the combustion engine.

[Ric_NYC]

I doubt if cars will ever run directly off of solar power. It would have to be a setup where it has a battery that charges during downtime, then lasts for a certain amount of driving. It might be cool to have some kind of hybrid like that where the battery doesn't need to be recharged by the combustion engine.


That's what I was thinking.

[uRock]

I'd like to see vehicles banned for non-commercial use. Too many out of shape folks running driving around. Health care would be cheaper and drunk drivers would go from being deadly to communities to being the laughing stock of communities.

[PhillyPhil]

I doubt if cars will ever run directly off of solar power. It would have to be a setup where it has a battery that charges during downtime, then lasts for a certain amount of driving. It might be cool to have some kind of hybrid like that where the battery doesn't need to be recharged by the combustion engine.

I wouldn't say never. Looking here: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tokai_Challenger you could assume that a very efficient solar panel 60-80% could, in the right conditions, run a small (light - 500kg) car as we know them now. Batteries are much more practical though ;)

[PhillyPhil]

the algae oil production for military purposes is starting to happen right now. and soon they will be increasing production for their own uses. and the article does mention civilian benefits.


They're not months away, they've already started: http://www.dailytech.com/Navy+MH+60S+Seahawk+Becomes+First+Military+Aircraf t+to+Fly+on+Algae+Derived+Biofuel/article21992.htm

[handy]

I live in hope that this will take off & therefore severely limit the tar sand mining that is happening in Alberta Canada.

The revelations that the documentary in my signature bring are both frightening & depressing, though of course not at all surprising in this day & age.

[Gremlinzzz]

I live in hope that this will take off & therefore severely limit the tar sand mining that is happening in Alberta Canada.

The revelations that the documentary in my signature bring are both frightening & depressing, though of course not at all surprising in this day & age.

Thanks downloading it:D

[uRock]

They're not months away, they've already started: http://www.dailytech.com/Navy+MH+60S+Seahawk+Becomes+First+Military+Aircraf t+to+Fly+on+Algae+Derived+Biofuel/article21992.htm

If the BlackHawk can use the fuel, then they will most likely start using it in the M1A1 and M1A2s pretty soon. They both have the same engines.

[Foxcow]

If the BlackHawk can use the fuel, then they will most likely start using it in the M1A1 and M1A2s pretty soon. They both have the same engines.



Any turbine powered craft really. A turbine engine can run on just about anything. The airlines are conducting experiments and feasibility studies as well.

[uRock]

I am surprised they didn't start with getting tanks running on the fuel first. Tanks don't become homesick bricks when their engines fail.

[handy]

...

If you chart or follow the price of food corn wheat etc..., you will see that FOOD has gone up significantly since the US mandated ethanol production to feed out cars which is now being shown to cause starvation in some areas where the food price is just too high. Not enough oil, not enough food and high prices. We need to significantly lower the cost of energy or a lot more suffering you will be hearing about around the world.

"Food Production & Population Growth" is not as simple a concept as many people think it is. Here is a very highly regarded presentation on the topic by a pair that have been consultants to the US administration (amongst others) in their respective fields:

Download:

http://www.realdl.com/video-tutorial/263737-daniel-quinn-food-production-and-population-growth.html

Watch:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7826621532426926190#

[mips]

I knew they was working on this while back.

were

[handy]

And "a". [-X

(I think that texting has got a lot to answer for.)

[Dustin2128]

I'd like to see vehicles banned for non-commercial use. Too many out of shape folks running driving around. Health care would be cheaper and drunk drivers would go from being deadly to communities to being the laughing stock of communities.
I could see this in an area where public transit or simply walking is an option- e.g. ban cars in cities, but it's much much much cheaper to drive to Florida to visit my grandparents than to take a plane there, just to name one example.

[uRock]

I could see this in an area where public transit or simply walking is an option- e.g. ban cars in cities, but it's much much much cheaper to drive to Florida to visit my grandparents than to take a plane there, just to name one example.

Take a bus or hop on a bike.:D

[Thewhistlingwind]

Take a bus or hop on a bike.:D

WHAT!!! I can understand for a short distance, but cross country by bicycle!!!? Get real. Most people aren't health nuts.

[uRock]

WHAT!!! I can understand for a short distance, but cross country by bicycle!!!? Get real. Most people aren't health nuts.

I guess you should pray this algae thing works out, otherwise when we run out of oil we'll be stuck in place.

[Bandit]

I guess you should pray this algae thing works out, otherwise when we run out of oil we'll be stuck in place.

Got Horse?

[Paqman]

It appears we are at the beginning of a new fuel revolution where we will be able to efficiently grow enough oil to start replacing fossil fuels.

I wouldn't count your chickens juuuuust yet.

What you will see, and are seeing already, is the use of biofuel to supplement fossil fuels. The EU already has targets for the percentage of liquid fuels to be biofuel, and countries like Brazil are already suing huge amounts due to their local circumstances. But you're not going to see it supplanting oil as the liquid fuel of choice any time soon.

Biodiesel and gasohol can be fairly easily used in diesels and gas turbines (it's just matter of retuning, or not even that in some cases), but petrol engines can't run on it without modification. That means that in practice biofuels can only be added to the fuel in relatively small quantities.

Biofuels will be becoming a more important part of the liquid fuel system than they are now, but we're still going to be sucking down stupendous quantities of oil for the foreseeable future. That will change eventually, rising oil prices will see to that, but we're only at the start of a long, sustained process of change. These things don't happen overnight. We'll still be digging up some oil in 100 years, they way we still dig up coal today.

[Dustin2128]

Take a bus or hop on a bike.:D
You want me to bike for over 500 miles?
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/square/000/000/428/%E0%B2%A0_%E0%B2%A0.jpg?1246548281
I think you overestimate the availability of long range busses, too.

[forrestcupp]

I'd like to see vehicles banned for non-commercial use. Too many out of shape folks running driving around. Health care would be cheaper and drunk drivers would go from being deadly to communities to being the laughing stock of communities.That would have to include buses and taxis. Sure, they're making a profit, but what they're hauling isn't for commercial use. They are for transportation, just like cars.


I am surprised they didn't start with getting tanks running on the fuel first. Tanks don't become homesick bricks when their engines fail.Good point.


Take a bus or hop on a bike.:DIt takes my wife an hour to get to work driving on the interstate at 70mph. I'd hate to imagine how long it would take her on a bike. Then there's always that darned rain, sleet, hail, and snow. ;)

[sdowney717]

Most people cant realistically bike to work or the store. And people when they get older are definitely not going to be biking anywhere.
I can imagine a bunch of employees biking into work in the am. They get there they are tired and will need a rest. The older ones will be so pooped out they will need a cab to go home.
A horse drawn wagon had plenty of good uses for moving folk around. A car is just a wagon without a horse and a mechanical motor. My dad owned 3 horses, they were a lot more work to keep going than the car.

[handy]

I remember how not that many years ago now, China's cities were crowded with bikes & very few cars indeed.

It is interesting how such things can change so quickly.

[Foxcow]

I remember how not that many years ago now, China's cities were crowded with bikes & very few cars indeed.

It is interesting how such things can change so quickly.


I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but I was in Beijing in 2009 and there are still quite a few bikers and scooter riders. Despite all of the new construction and modernization, the bike/scooter lanes were built along side the new roads and highways.

[mips]

I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but I was in Beijing in 2009 and there are still quite a few bikers and scooter riders. Despite all of the new construction and modernization, the bike/scooter lanes were built along side the new roads and highways.

Reminds me of the song Nine Million Bicycles by Katie Melua...

[Gremlinzzz]

I remember how not that many years ago now, China's cities were crowded with bikes & very few cars indeed.

It is interesting how such things can change so quickly.

I watched H2OIL after the history or track record of oil and chemical company's, it's not surprising but no less disgusting.what they will do for money.

[handy]

I watched H2OIL after the history or track record of oil and chemical company's, it's not surprising but no less disgusting.what they will do for money.

I tend to think that many of the people in positions of power, (corporate/government) are sociopaths. If they weren't they wouldn't be able to do what they do.

[handy]

I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but I was in Beijing in 2009 and there are still quite a few bikers and scooter riders. Despite all of the new construction and modernization, the bike/scooter lanes were built along side the new roads and highways.

What I was talking about was when the entire roadways (oft multi-lane) were full of bicycles, with very few motor vehicles to be seen.

[forrestcupp]

A horse drawn wagon had plenty of good uses for moving folk around. A car is just a wagon without a horse and a mechanical motor. My dad owned 3 horses, they were a lot more work to keep going than the car.

Then you have the problem of animal flatulence destroying the ozone layer. :)