Posting irrelevant links in answer to questions

[Moozillaaa]

edit:
Thread title was changed to an INappropriate title.
My question is not about 'irrelevant' links. You could say by a stretch, that my question is about 'extra' information at a linked site, which does not answer the question.

mods/admin - you can change the title back if you want. Or to something which better reflects the original post.


You post a question about Ubuntu, and the response is

"Here's a link to your answer". (and perhaps 20 minutes' worth of reading at the linked page, that has nothing to do with the answer, IF there at all)

Does this annoy you? Or do you do this in response to others' questions?

[sidzen]

". . . that has nothing to do with the answer, IF there at all)" . . . would annoy me but, realizing people are not infallible, I would ask if the link was, indeed, correct.

Learning Linux should not have to involve spoon-feeding the answers to someone who has a capable mind or has 52 cards in the deck. Sometimes a link will contain a hint but, because the OP is not infallible and may not have asked the question in a manner all are able to understand, then again it may be ambiguous.

Hard to say.:p#-o

[Dangertux]

If I'm asking for help I tend to be thankful for any I get. Since I clearly couldn't solve the issue myself why would I be mad that someone may or may not be able to do it for me?

EDIT: Then again I am more appreciative of the means than the end when it comes to Linux in general. The journey is what is interesting to me, not the final destination.

[Barrucadu]

If the link was truly irrelevant, it would annoy me, but that's very rarely the case.
If someone asks a question which can be solved with a little bit of research, I do often respond with a link to Google, which I suppose those same people (due to clearly not doing any research) find annoying.

[haqking]

i do it frequently.

If i can answer the question directly then i do, if i cant i do a quick search for it which alot of people dont bother to do and then provide a link to it, if its not what they are looking for i am hoping it will at least give them a stepping stone to start their own search maybe.

I admit i am often lazy myself, i am always grateful for any help as long as it is not done arrogantly, i can often sound pedantic on here (it is a flaw i am working on) as it is hard to convey humour in text, i am a very easy going guy and make a joke of everything if i can, sometimes that dont go down so well or gets lost in translation on forums however.

but yeah i give links and am happy to receive them ;-)

[drawkcab]

Who's lazier: the guy who posts the link that actually answers your question or you who is to annoyed and bothered to read it?

[Thewhistlingwind]

Who's lazier: the guy who posts the link that actually answers your question or you who is to annoyed and bothered to read it?

It doesn't matter, the first guy is promoting methods for people to not retype the same answers over and over, if anything, you should be thankful someone bothered to respond.

[SoFl W]

Does this annoy you? Or do you do this in response to others' questions?

Here is (http://icanhascheezburger.com/) a link to your answer.

[tgalati4]

Well at least it's not a RickRoll. Can you post an example of this? I often post links of my own posts (after I've search through my own post history) for a related problem and solution. I've never seen a link (with possible exception above) that was truely irrelevant. Perhaps the asker doesn't understand anything in the linked post or the responder misunderstood what was being asked and gave an answer to a different question.

[Shibblet]

You post a question about Ubuntu, and the response is

"Here's a link to your answer". (and perhaps 20 minutes' worth of reading at the linked page, that has nothing to do with the answer, IF there at all)

Does this annoy you? Or do you do this in response to others' questions?

Sometimes when you answer a question with a quick and easy command, the user would like to know what they did. And that's another explanation. Then they want to know why it works that way... explain, explain, explain....

And, simple fact of the matter is, someone already explained it, and they're answer is the best. So, give them a link, and let them go to town.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Shibblet]

Well at least it's not a RickRoll. Can you post an example of this?

Right here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=fvst

[wolfen69]

I only give links if I am fairly confident that it will help them in some way.

Who's lazier: the guy who posts the link that actually answers your question or you who is to annoyed and bothered to read it?
I would go with the person too annoyed to read it. Just be happy someone even bothered to answer. And if it doesn't work, just come back and post a follow up question.

[mmsmc]

". . . that has nothing to do with the answer, IF there at all)" . . . would annoy me but, realizing people are not infallible, I would ask if the link was, indeed, correct.

Learning Linux should not have to involve spoon-feeding the answers to someone who has a capable mind or has 52 cards in the deck. Sometimes a link will contain a hint but, because the OP is not infallible and may not have asked the question in a manner all are able to understand, then again it may be ambiguous.

Hard to say.:p#-o
i agree, i think the best way to learn is by experience, read the darn thing so you know what to do next time

[haqking]

Most of the time the question is only half of whats really going on, mostly enough information if never given (mostly ;-)

Without being at the machine and seeing everything for yourself it is very hard to answer alot of the time, so you do what you can, post a link or tutorial or similar discussion thread just to help out and then YOU ARE THE ONE NOT LISTENING or being unhelpful for providing something not related to there problem.
Also alot of the time if you dont answer within 5 minutes the forums are **** and no one is helfpul and they are gonna go back to windows !

I say if someone posts a reply with link or not, read it, if its helpful great and say thanks, if its not then store it as a bookmark for possible future use if its related but not exact. If its no use at all or not related, wait for another response or find out for yourself and be thankful at least someone bothered more than you did to look it up and try to solve it ;-)

[grahammechanical]

Sometimes I see a post that no one is responding to. Sometimes I do not have time to repeat the step by step answer (with explanations) that I have given to someone else. Sometimes I do not know the answer or cannot explain the answer clearly. Then I, sometimes, post a link to community documentation. At least it tells the person that they are not alone.

Sometimes I try to help by finding the answer. Sometimes I do a Google search to make sure I am accurate. Then I post a link. It is also a hint that if I could so easily find this link, then others (the OP) could also easily find the same link. It can be seen as a way of teaching others to be more self-reliant. I learnt this by seeing others on this forum post links. And I think to myself, I can do that. So, I do.

Regards.

[Eldera]

My biggest way of helping on the forums is posting links to those more experienced than I.

Even after two years of using Ubuntu, I am no computer expert; maybe a little bit better than a NOOB, but not much. I would not be able to use Ubuntu at all if it were not for the help I have received from this forum. Of course, I want to help somebody else if I can. I learn by reading and reading and reading. Sometimes I spot a problem that I have read something about. I post a link.

Sometimes I have been thanked for my link. Sometimes there has been no response.

So to answer the OP's question, I do it. Like tglati4, I even post links to my own threads where someone has worked me through a similar problem.

Off Topic: Love the Kittahs. LOL

Edit: I do not do it to annoy people. I think I have helped more people than I have annoyed, so I am going to keep right on doing it.

[Bandit]

You post a question about Ubuntu, and the response is

"Here's a link to your answer". (and perhaps 20 minutes' worth of reading at the linked page, that has nothing to do with the answer, IF there at all)

Does this annoy you? Or do you do this in response to others' questions?

What ignores me more is when someone ask as question and expects you to google the crap for them.

But if you ask a vague question and someone post you a vague link to information they think your looking for. Then check the link, if it doesn't have the information you need. Refine your question and maybe you will get a more better response related to your question.

[wizard10000]

You can give a man a fish or you can teach him to fish.

I've done enterprise desktop support for a whole buncha years now. If I'm getting paid to solve someone's problem I'll solve the problem and provide an explanation if they ask.

If I'm donating my time to provide support I expect the user to meet me halfway. I've trained all my friends and family - I am the *last* resource they are to use to solve a problem, not the first.

Some years ago a hairdresser friend of mine used to ask me to come over in the evenings to fix her busted PC. After several weeks of growing increasingly tired of this I got an idea and asked her to come over after work the next day and give me a haircut, please.

She asked if I was kidding, saying that she cut hair all day and that she'd really rather not do it on her time. I just stood there and grinned at her. After about five seconds she got the whole picture and was mortified :D

She apologized profusely and I explained that if she gave it her best shot and still couldn't fix it I was happy to help, but that I'm the last link in the chain, not the first ;)

My time has value. I don't mind tossing out a quick and dirty answer or pasting something out of my own configuration if it helps, but I do expect folks to give it a shot before hollering for help. If they really can't be bothered to read a web page I really can't be bothered to go into too much detail.

Fortunately I meet very few people who have a sense of entitlement when it comes to receiving volunteer support. Almost all the folks I've encountered are more than willing to do the work if someone will just show them how - and have been grateful for the help they received. That and the fact that people help *me* when I need it is what keeps me coming back - the whole community thing :)

[Moozillaaa]

Many good answers.

But I think what this issue comes down to, is we - the ignorant, AND the learned, are BOTH lazy.

Figuring out the problem yourself (as the OP) makes you a better learner, and thinker, even if you can't solve it.

Explaining the answer to the problem (as a responder) (instead of posting a link), makes you a better teacher. And as you teach, step by step - even in repetition, you become a better learner AND problem solver of what you DON'T know already.

Taking the time to type out the solution to a problem, step by step, allows your mind to check, and improve itself, as it goes.

The best analogy is DNA, when it replicates. One strand of the 2x helix can replicate itself in a continuum ("Here's a link OP; see ya'"). The other strand, being the inverse, must replicate in short segments, checking itself as it goes ("This is what to do OP").

The processes of thinking linearly (a solution to a problem) are similar.

Spell out the answer. If the OP is lazy, and doesn't want to learn how to fish, so what. You'll be a better fisherman. :)

[Eldera]

The "give a man a fish, teach a man to fish" analogy is too black and white for some situations.

Life's not simple. Sometimes you have to give a man half a fish to eat, so he survives while you teach him to fish.

[wizard10000]

Life's not simple. Sometimes you have to give a man half a fish to eat, so he survives while you teach him to fish.

That's certainly true. But - if he just lays back, opens his mouth and expects you to feed him the fish with no effort at all on his part I'll just let him starve :D

I think I only see two or three people a year who fall into that category - most everybody will give most anything a try if we help them.

[Eldera]

with no effort at all on his part I'll just let him starve

The thing I will probably do is decide what to do when I read the OP's questions. Some times one can tell from the way they phrase their questions how much they have done on their own.

On the other hand, when I first started using the forums, I did not know a lot about helping myself. For example, I did not know one could Google just the forum. It was only when I read some posts describing doing this that I learned. Neither were my skills at choosing keywords for searching as good as they are now.

A lot of people answered some very simple questions while I was learning how to help myself. I owe it back.

[Bandit]

The "give a man a fish, teach a man to fish" analogy is too black and white for some situations.

Life's not simple. Sometimes you have to give a man half a fish to eat, so he survives while you teach him to fish.

Thats called a LINK

[Eldera]

+1

Yes, Yes, I am one of the people in this thread that said I use links and intend to keep on doing so.

[Moozillaaa]

The thing I will probably do is decide what to do when I read the OP's questions. Some times one can tell from the way they phrase their questions how much they have done on their own.

On the other hand, when I first started using the forums, I did not know a lot about helping myself. For example, I did not know one could Google just the forum. It was only when I read some posts describing doing this that I learned. Neither were my skills at choosing keywords for searching as good as they are now.

A lot of people answered some very simple questions while I was learning how to help myself. I owe it back. Very true. I have little tolerance for the 'texter' types. BUT, you still should consider adapting an explicit answer, tailored to the 'lazier' types, as well as the ones who appear to have done homework, for YOUR OWN benefit:




Many good answers.

But I think what this issue comes down to, is we - the ignorant, AND the learned, are BOTH lazy.

Figuring out the problem yourself (as the OP) makes you a better learner, and thinker, even if you can't solve it.

Explaining the answer to the problem (as a responder) (instead of posting a link), makes you a better teacher. And as you teach, step by step - even in repetition, you become a better learner AND problem solver of what you DON'T know already.

Taking the time to type out the solution to a problem, step by step, allows your mind to check, and improve itself, as it goes.

The best analogy is DNA, when it replicates. One strand of the 2x helix can replicate itself in a continuum ("Here's a link OP; see ya'"). The other strand, being the inverse, must replicate in short segments, checking itself as it goes ("This is what to do OP").

The processes of thinking linearly (a solution to a problem) are similar.

Spell out the answer. If the OP is lazy, and doesn't want to learn how to fish, so what. You'll be a better fisherman. :)

[wizard10000]

The thing I will probably do is decide what to do when I read the OP's questions. Some times one can tell from the way they phrase their questions how much they have done on their own.

On the other hand, when I first started using the forums, I did not know a lot about helping myself. For example, I did not know one could Google just the forum. It was only when I read some posts describing doing this that I learned. Neither were my skills at choosing keywords for searching as good as they are now.

A lot of people answered some very simple questions while I was learning how to help myself. I owe it back.

As do we all.

I really don't think we're too far off. I'll bend over backwards for anybody who's willing to try to help themselves - I mentioned a sense of entitlement above. The kind of guy I'm talking about is the one who howls that he's waited a whole ten minutes for an answer to his post, or when given a correct link says he doesn't have the time or inclination to read it - or when you offer several possible solutions and they tell you they don't have time to try all of them so just give them the right answer, dammit ;)

You really don't see a whole lot of that here.

As I said, most everybody is willing to do the work if they can get someone to show them how. That's all I require. I did a four-page thread in the Kubuntu forums pretty much all by myself a couple weeks back when somebody couldn't get wireless working - but the guy kept trying and eventually we got it.

Then he broke it again :D

[Eldera]

but the guy kept trying and eventually we got it. Then he broke it again,

Sounds like you did the best you could.

Good night.

[sammiev]

I think if Ubuntu would fix the search engine so people could find their answers in the forums, it would likely drop the amount of questions by about 70%. GL :)

[slooksterpsv]

You post a question about Ubuntu, and the response is

"Here's a link to your answer". (and perhaps 20 minutes' worth of reading at the linked page, that has nothing to do with the answer, IF there at all)

Does this annoy you? Or do you do this in response to others' questions?

I try to answer cause I've seen people say: here's a link it has some information on what you're trying to do, but the thread was never solved, and then they post in it and people are like this is an old thread, create a new one.

It irritates me when people post links, unless its a long complex answer like:
How do I setup an LDAP Server and it's clients? - In which I'd link them to a few articles.

Other than that people ask questions for answers, not to be directed. If they did RTFM they still may not have their answer as it could be cryptic in the manual as well. Usually when I find a thread where someone's said read this, especially if I've been through it, I post the answer or give them an answer and say if it doesn't work, let me know.

[malspa]

It depends on the situation, on it also depends on my mood. Frequently, I'll just post a link. Sometimes I'll type out the step-by-steps. Sometimes I'll say, "I did a web search using the words [whatever words I used for my web search], you might want to try that." (Hint, hint.)

Seems to me that majority of the time, the OP is just as capable of doing a web search and researching the issue as I am. But in cases where they clearly aren't sure how to go about finding a solution, I like to at least let them know how I went about finding it.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I think if Ubuntu would fix the search engine so people could find their answers in the forums, it would likely drop the amount of questions by about 70%. GL :)

Haha! When I first started to use Ubuntu, I was using the forum search engine. When I couldn't find an answer, I used Google and got a link to the Ubuntu Forum post I was searching for. It didn't take me very long to forget about using the Ubuntu Forum search engine. :)

I post links. Why take up storage on the Ubuntu servers by repeating the same information. I have never had anyone complain about a link.

I have tried to help people that were to lazy to work with me on a solution or that only did part of what I told them to do. The ones that couldn't follow directions were the ones that frustrated me the most.

[bowens44]

That's the best way to learn.

[trizrK]

No, because i probally should have not been so lazy and searched for it myself :P

[Shibblet]

No, because i probally should have not been so lazy and searched for it myself :P

I have to jump in here. I have spent hours searching for answers before. Sifting through the crap that search engines spit out can be a secondary hobby akin to clawing ones own eyes out with a plastic fork.

I would rather have someone in the forums at least point me in the right direction, as opposed to arm-hefting my chin across the multi-verse still up at 3 o'clock in the morning.

[Thewhistlingwind]

I have to jump in here. I have spent hours searching for answers before. Sifting through the crap that search engines spit out can be a secondary hobby akin to clawing ones own eyes out with a plastic fork.

Obviously if it's taking you a while it's okay to ask in the forums, he meant stuff you can grab off the front/second/third/fourth/fifth page of google.

[Antarctica32]

I have never posted a link to anything as an answer to someones post.

[Smilax]

i think this will give everyone a better idea about how to post relevant info

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:CSXxE_89axIJ:www.lessonsforliving.com/101%2520Ways%2520Labyrinth.PDF+101+ways+to+not+ans wer&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj07rDVoDFlOzCrgjtq2Fo9NNXBTjK-12iguPYstFk854mV_tzKg3ipCes9EGf_D5q4RTYlh4BkLYaVpp M259x2flZ1odcQKCkVer8PvGpjOd1HAOn3eoY7fxndUUSZDMty Dosl&sig=AHIEtbRiHD7C3FjNj6hAYFeb2pOzvyBbug&pli=1

[sammiev]

Still, why does one have to go to google from this site to get an answer from this site??? :confused: Would it not be easier to fix there search engine to find the same results you get from google??? :confused:

[Shibblet]

Still, why does one have to go to google from this site to get an answer from this site??? :confused: Would it not be easier to fix there search engine to find the same results you get from google??? :confused:

Usually Google searches will give you Ubuntu Forums results.

[Moozillaaa]

bumped.

The changed title of the thread is retarded.

It does NOT reflect the question at all. Someone has shown that they're not involved in coding or in development (or dread - that they ARE!!! :lolflag: )

[Bandit]

"Pardon me, can you tell me step by step how to build _________. I seen you and few others post about the topic but my *** is to dang lazy to read through 50 pages of where you guys figured it out and learned it on your own. Please use the golden spoon supplied.. TY.."

I swear if the next person PMs me becuase they dont wish to read how to do something I am going to start using this again...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ubuntu

[cariboo]

Still, why does one have to go to google from this site to get an answer from this site??? :confused: Would it not be easier to fix there search engine to find the same results you get from google??? :confused:

There is more than the forum available to help solve problems Google will give you several answer, not limited to the forum.

[slooksterpsv]

Well if you want the best way to handle the situation, look here, this is a good thread regarding the topic we've all been conversing about:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1789470

I mean it's just amazing no one caught on to it earlier. So read through it and let me know what you think of it.

[Eldera]

slooksterpsv Have you posted the correct link? This takes one back to the same thread.

[haqking]

slooksterpsv Have you posted the correct link? This takes one back to the same thread.


ha ha i think that was the point ;-)

[slooksterpsv]

slooksterpsv Have you posted the correct link? This takes one back to the same thread.

Hahaha yup that's the correct link, see what the poster posted after your post. I did it to prove a point.

[Ric_NYC]

Let's be realistic... The answers are free... You get what you pay for.


:)

[haqking]

Let's be realistic... The answers are free... You get what you pay for.


:)

So is Linux ;-)

and before anyone chimes in yes i know the GNU Free ;-)

[slooksterpsv]

Let's be realistic... The answers are free... You get what you pay for.


:)

But we're better than M$ and Apple - we're free, give free support, but we should still give the best damn support we can give. Ubuntu is founded by a community, and the community should help those new, welcome them, and help them get settled in. It's just common courtesy, and reflects well overall.

[Moozillaaa]

Let's be realistic... The answers are free... You get what you pay for.


:)

Your 2 statements are invalid. You might have said, "The responses are free..."

And on rare occasion, if your question is concise, you get a good explanation, 'for free'.

The point was that 7 times out of 8, or more, the only responses are, "I have the same problem", "Me too", "Same here" , and the re-directing, links, with 20 minutes' worth of reading, and most times, NO answer to the question.

And the thread title change is still retarded. WHO DID THAT? That person obviously gave LITTLE thought to the original post, before arbitrarily changing the title.