PDA

View Full Version : Possible Ideas for Linux Artists



centered effect
May 15th, 2006, 10:13 AM
I wrote a new thread in the Collage Linux section (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=71) of the Ubuntu forums, not realizing that the project had died off almost a year or so ago. So this is my attempt to have a new focus toward the artist programs of Linux.

Collage may have tried to bite more than it wanted to, since Ubuntu Studio is prosperous. So perhaps maybe a new section for Graphic/Web/Video design in the Ubuntu forums. Or perhaps maybe a new reformed or redeveloped version of what Collage stood for.


Why? Many reasons actually. Recently a poll was done by Novell showing the most wanted applications for Linux. Half were design programs, and that says something without getting into debates. Another reason is Microsoft is about to release their version of design tools to compete with Adobe/Macromedia, who knows the price range or level of difficulty, or whether or not MS wants to wipe Adobe out again up to debate. I really think the community here can make the artistic effort shine better. My last reason would be, I am not a programmer, nor a full professional designer, but i would like to contribute to the Linux community in some shape or form. That form being this.

I think having a centralized section for how to's and tutorials are needed for any design programs, even if it mirrors the host page (with permission of course). This will be invaluable for everyone so google searches become less and less.


I think having a list of ideas and suggestions based on what the community discusses about would be great. These ideas could be presented to the program's developers in a professional manner. I have started to openly discuss some ideas I have been thinking about. For instance:

Pushing a Flash alternative, like Synfig for the community of artists. Synfig's to-do list shows a push for Apache and Mozilla support modules.
Pushing for a better web development alternative, such as alternatives to Image Ready/Fireworks/Dreamweaver/Flash. To be honest, i have not gotten deep with Gimp's slicing tools, so I cannot be a good judge. Nvu has seem to have ceased development. Again if the tools are good enough, then why is there a want for other apps? (What I would love to see is a tutorial on web page building using Inkscape/Gimp to Nvu)
Unify designs programs to work together as a suite, similar to Adobe CS, Macromedia Studio, or Koffice. For instance a raster/photo editor (Gimp?), vector editor (Inkscape?), layout editor (Scribus?), WYSIWYG web editor (Nvu?), 3d editor (blender?), animtion program (synfig?) working together if need be, similar interfaces to show consistancy,etc.
Ideas on Game Development, perhaps using the Q2/Q3 engines as a base for new games,etc. Additional Ideas could be Machinma development (better tools), redefining GTKradiant for home design usage (they seem popular, off topic I know) and/or architechtural usage (an easier CAD maybe?), etc.
Please note, I do not know much about video editing to include any ideas. I have used LIVES in the past because it had a editing feature I needed.


These are just some starter ideas that could possibly help Linux, the Linux and artist community, and a way to give back to everyone. If the ideas stink or not well though out, let me know (or correct me if I am totally wrong).

commodore
May 15th, 2006, 12:51 PM
Offtopic: Why do you want to make websites with Nvu? You can't make normal websites with WYSIWYG.

Stealth
May 15th, 2006, 01:50 PM
I'd love to see that happen. 2 of my biggest hurdles in going ubuntu-only are Photoshop and Flash, so I'm trying really hard to get em to work through WINE. But for instance, I've switched from Illustrator to Inkscape, which is pretty cool. However, I cannot see the same thing happening with Photshop, for example. GIMP is just not what I want, and although it may sound wrong or whatever, what I really want is a PS-clone for Linux. That simple. Which it seems is what F4L (http://f4l.sourceforge.net/) is doing for Flash, so that may be an alternative for me there. However, integration would also be very nice, and I've heard that Inkscape and GIMP will be doing some work on that over the Summer of Code program...

And on game development, I don't know if anyone has ever tried on on Windows, but there is an amzaing program called (surprisingly ;)) Game Maker (http://gamemaker.nl) which is just a fantastic tool for creating games (and even programs). I want to see something like this, created in Linux using something like Pygame as its base (Game Maker is written in Delphi I believe). With such an easy...IDE I guess you could call it, more and more people can make games with ease. :)

mostwanted
May 15th, 2006, 02:06 PM
I used to do a lot of Flash, but when I learned it's completely proprietary, creates all sorts of issues when embedded in HTML and that the plugin for Linux just plain SUCKS, I just dropped it. And let me remind you, I've done a hell of a lot of Flash, it wasn't an easy thing to drop when I didn't know how the alternatives (HTML, CSS and JS) could be used to the same effect.

Stealth
May 15th, 2006, 02:30 PM
I use Flash for animation, not site design (seeing as how you're using JS, CSS, and HTML as examples). I really doubt you can do anything like Homestarrunner.com (http://www.homestarrunner.com/) with anything except Flash.

centered effect
May 15th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Offtopic: Why do you want to make websites with Nvu? You can't make normal websites with WYSIWYG.

I gave an example of each program to do certain things. While I personally do not use Nvu alot, I am sure someone else does and find it to do a good job at what it does. (I code my sites by hand using gedit or Bluefish[linux] or HTMLkit [windows], only a few are done in Dreamweaver). I personally believe Nvu should be forked since development has stopped.

And what do you mean normal websites?


I'd love to see that happen. 2 of my biggest hurdles in going ubuntu-only are Photoshop and Flash, so I'm trying really hard to get em to work through WINE. But for instance, I've switched from Illustrator to Inkscape, which is pretty cool. However, I cannot see the same thing happening with Photshop, for example. GIMP is just not what I want, and although it may sound wrong or whatever, what I really want is a PS-clone for Linux. That simple. Which it seems is what F4L (http://f4l.sourceforge.net/) is doing for Flash, so that may be an alternative for me there. However, integration would also be very nice, and I've heard that Inkscape and GIMP will be doing some work on that over the Summer of Code program...

And on game development, I don't know if anyone has ever tried on on Windows, but there is an amzaing program called (surprisingly ;)) Game Maker (http://gamemaker.nl/) which is just a fantastic tool for creating games (and even programs). I want to see something like this, created in Linux using something like Pygame as its base (Game Maker is written in Delphi I believe). With such an easy...IDE I guess you could call it, more and more people can make games with ease. :)

I hear you on the PS-Gimp reference. I was hoping Krita would be it, but the more and more I play with Gimp, I like it more than Krita, and vice versa... just certain issues I can't get past. I guess I need to read up more and do more tutorials, its not PS I know. The other option is not free, but seems like a true PS clone - Pixel http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=12 . i will be buying a copy for myself to try it out.

Have you tried Uira? http://www.uira.org/ It is supposed to be F4l updated.

I have to look at Game Maker. I mentioned Q2/3 because the engine and most of the tools are already present and Gpl'd. Again i am not a coder so I cannot comment on the coding side, but the map editor is available and there are plenty of 3d modelling tools and Gimp (should) works for textur
es (not sure on alpha channels). Seeing the work of Sock - http://simland.planetquake.gamespy.com/images/q3/pom1l.jpg
and seeing SOF2, ET and JK3 knows that Q3 is still a great gaming engine. Again, these tools are present and should help make games for Linux, this could hopefully (keyword here!) gain interest in the gaming community and people would want to develop for Linux, whether it would be tools or games or both.


I used to do a lot of Flash, but when I learned it's completely proprietary, creates all sorts of issues when embedded in HTML and that the plugin for Linux just plain SUCKS, I just dropped it. And let me remind you, I've done a hell of a lot of Flash, it wasn't an easy thing to drop when I didn't know how the alternatives (HTML, CSS and JS) could be used to the same effect.

Have you tried qooxdoo? http://qooxdoo.oss.schlund.de/ it is a gui for JS and Ajax, I havent' tried it yet but I am going to, it looks good. It looks like it is for Linux as well as Win.

lapsey
May 15th, 2006, 07:04 PM
offftopic

commodore
May 15th, 2006, 07:33 PM
I want Photoshop and Flash come over only if they turn open source like Xara did. Otherwise I don't want them and I can use GIMP very well.

centered effect
May 16th, 2006, 12:53 AM
I want Photoshop and Flash come over only if they turn open source like Xara did. Otherwise I don't want them and I can use GIMP very well.

I don't think PS or Flash would go open source, though i probably would support them if they did make linux versions. Probably. Actually better yet, I think I would rather support Gimp or Inkscape more.

Also I fired up Uira, it is a alpha with no real working features.

centered effect
May 21st, 2006, 01:40 AM
Maybe not the right forums to post, but i am awaiting to see my entry in the Gimp Developers mailing list, regarding improvements to the Gimp. I based them from reading different threads on their own mailing list and ideas of my own so far. please tell me if you agree or disagree;

Possible Ideas and Suggestions:

1. In a previous post, I agreed with this posting:
https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-developer/2006-May/015740.html
. I would like to add an additional reasoning, it would be
consistent with other programs, such as the one I am using, Open
Office. One choice to open a new document would be: File New
(List of Options). This gives the user a list of what kind of
option it wants. Of course I am in Writer, so the next option
would be CONTROL-N (a universal shortcut) or clicking on the New
Document Icon on the toolbar, which would automatically give me a
new default Writer document. The New Document Icon also has a down
arrow, showing there are more choices available. For an additional
suggestion, the Gimp developers could mimic the same functionality
on the Layers Dock. Picture:
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/5269/toolbars9xx.jpg

2. In addition to the above suggestion, I want to reference this
post:
https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-developer/2006-April/015492.html
. In regarding the (New Layer, in this instance) pop-up, there is
a option for the size of the new layer. May I ask how would this
work? If you choose an option bigger than the document, for
instance, you can only work within the document size. For example,
I use the default New Document size 420x300, then I select New
Layer and make its size 800x600. I can't work beyond 420x300 and
expect to see the end image. If i remember correctly Flash can
work outside of the document, but the end result you cannot see
outside of the document size, but this is not Flash. Losing this
option and cutting out the pop-up box for a New Layer, would help
decrease at least one pop-up. This leads to my next point.

3. Layers and the Move Tool. This hinders me greatly in my workflow
with the Gimp. Simply put, when I select Layer X on the Layer
Dock, and move it using the Move Tool, Layer Y should not move at
all.

4. (Idea) Simplifying the UI of Gimp. My current Gimp setup looks
like this:
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1659/gimpsetup9xb.jpg . All I
did here was move the Tool option box over to the Layers Dock and
lessened the Tools Dock (v 2.2.11 Win32). In addition,
referencing this post:
https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-developer/2006-April/015476.html
, the user shows a toolbar, that functions similar to Adobe
Illustrator which I think is a good idea to group tools and shrink
the Toolbar dock (please view his updated picture:
http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar02.png ). Also, referencing
this post:
https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-developer/2006-March/015458.html
, please note I will only ask for the tabbed functionality, with
the main image window as viewed here:
http://linuxmedia.tuxfamily.org/contrib/gimp/images/projetgimpfinal6.png
. My idea would possibly be to have a OSX type toolbar, so toolbar
functionality possibly does not get lost within the Layer dock as
I have it now. For instance Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop,
on OSX, have their main (file, edit, view, etc) toolbar on top of
the screen, followed by a tools toolbar (iconed new, open,
save,etc.). Picture here:
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/7931/pshopcs27co.jpg and
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/7481/officeosx7ao.jpg . Gimp
could use this to help free up the tools dock, and the layers
dock. The brushes, patterns and gradients can also be grouped in
the Tools toolbar, when the tool is called. This 'simpleUI' could
be an option to the user not a default.

5. (Idea) Merge the Freetype tool with the default Type tool. I do
not see why both are needed. (for the transformations?)