Interesting, but no mention of operating system.

[Dale61]

San Diego Is Bridging the Digital Divide with Refurbished Computers for Low-Income Families (http://www.good.is/post/san-diego-is-bridging-the-digital-divide-with-refurbished-computers-for-low-income-families)


Can you imagine trying to do research for an assignment or type a paper without your own computer? For low-income students, this is often the reality. Sure, they can sometimes trek to public libraries to use computers there, but with long waits, time-use limits, and libraries cutting back their hours, more kids are left without a way to complete critical schoolwork. The San Diego County Office of Education's "Unlimited Access" program, a collaborative effort with businesses and nonprofits, may have a solution.

The lack of technology access for low income families in San Diego County is pretty significant. Roughly 29 percent of the 495,000 students in the area lack computers at home, or if they do have one, they don't have access to the internet. To help them get connected, the Unlimited Access program gives families a "broadband device and a refurbished, three-year-old desktop valued at $950" for a super affordable $20 fee. The desktops come with software, including educational programs, already installed.

[Timmer1240]

I would Guess they come with XP and theyll be all malwared up in no time!Its a good thing though to try to get these people some computers so they can learn.If they came with Linux at least they would be more resistant to viruses trojans and spyware crap.

[Dale61]

I've been thinking along similar lines. Firstly, if these pc's are loaded with XP, someone has to buy the licenses, and they aren't cheap. Next, what anti-virus software would be the most appropriate? At least the recipients can use the pc at their leisure rather than have virus scans cut in to their allowable usage time.

[SoFl W]

I've been thinking along similar lines. Firstly, if these pc's are loaded with XP, someone has to buy the licenses, and they aren't cheap.

If they are refurbished computers chances are they already have an XP license key. A lot of companies upgrade OSes/computers every few years and the older computes are great for this purpose.
At one time you could buy old Windows OS keys for around $40 a piece but they put a stop to that.

[Dale61]

To me, a refurbished computer means it has also been reformatted. Isn't it an offence to give someone else an old computer with the Windows o/s still installed? Doesn't the EULA state that is is for single use only?

I've not used Windows for that long I've forgotten what is allowed these days.

[keithpeter]

Hello All

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/desktops/government-reveals-specs-for-100-pcs-with-a-dollop-of-open-source-50002265/

The UK version. I'd like to make contact with anyone who has one of these £100 computers and who has found their way to this forum. You can see what is on offer here...

http://www.ecycleonline.co.uk/choose-your-computer---ubuntu-12-c.asp

...but both of them are out of stock!

[ I did it for £150 using a refurbished Thinkpad off ebay currently running xubuntu... ]

[kaldor]

If all the hardware works, I think Linux would make a much better choice than a Windows one.

Reasons..

1) No malware right now. Inexperienced users will not understand what is/isn't a malware magnet online.

2) Older PC means lower requirements. Sure, you can use Windows XP.. but do you really want to be using such an old OS by now?

3) Cost

All in all, whatever works. But if it's a non-profit distribution of old PCs, I don't see what the point would be to reformat and then reinstall Windows on them. The "but it isn't a standard OS/software!" isn't really valid... because people can usually learn how to use something easily enough anyway and it isn't like poorer people will need Adobe Photoshop and MS Office 2010 to get past the digital divide.

I'll wait for that other forum to label me as a Linux Evangelist now.

[Lucradia]

I've been thinking along similar lines. Firstly, if these pc's are loaded with XP, someone has to buy the licenses, and they aren't cheap. Next, what anti-virus software would be the most appropriate? At least the recipients can use the pc at their leisure rather than have virus scans cut in to their allowable usage time.

Goodwill in the USA removes all OSes and puts on Ubuntu on every machine. Pawn America has Ubuntu PCs for sale, but you can only sell Windows PCs to them (they will give you a crap response if you ask them why they sell ubuntu PCs, but don't buy them: "Because they came from other stores.")

[aysiu]

They use XP.

From Educators, business team up to bridge student “digital divide” (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/18/educators-business-team-up-to-bridge-student/):
Computers 2 SD Kids, a nonprofit that fixes up used computers, has supplied the computers. Cricket Communications provides the broadband service. And Qualcomm is studying the impact that the computers will have families.

From Computers 2 SD Kids (http://www.c2sdk.org/recycling-and-refurbishing/refurbishing-program/):
Upon completion of the D-BAN process all personal data as well as the Windows operating system and everything else on the hard drive is erased. As a Microsoft Registered Refurbisher, the next stage of the computer refurbishment process is to load a new Windows XP Professional operating system, Microsoft Office Basic 2007, Microsoft Security Essential anti-virus software and various other useful software programs. Microsoft Certificates of Authenticity labels are then attached to each computer. The final stage involves checking the various components, such as memory chips, CD Rom drive, sound and video to make sure everything is in proper working order. If you want to support an organization that supports open source, support Alameda County Computer Resource Center (http://accrc.org/):
We give free refurbished computers to schools, non-profit organizations, and economically and/or physically disadvantaged individuals. Although our computers are all old enough that they were discarded by their previous owners, the ones that we refurbish are still perfectly adequate for most home, school, and office applications. Our refurbished systems all run a Free software GNU/Linux operating system.

To apply for one or more computers, please print one of our three placement applications:school, non-profit, or individual, and then fax, mail, or bring us the completed form.

[Dale61]

I'm still trying to get my head around this comment though!


Maine gives every student from seventh-grade on up with their own laptop, and every kindergartener in the state receives an iPad

Would all those at that age have the smarts to use an iPad? This has to be more for the parents' benefit, surely?

[aysiu]

I'm still trying to get my head around this comment though!



Would all those at that age have the smarts to use an iPad? This has to be more for the parents' benefit, surely?
iPads are actually great for little kids. I've also read they're particularly good for autistic children.

[Lucradia]

iPads are actually great for little kids. I've also read they're particularly good for autistic children.

Would love to see if the same is true for Android 3.0 and autism.

[tgm4883]

Would love to see if the same is true for Android 3.0 and autism.

The same will hold true providing the apps are available (or similar apps) on Android. As much as chairman Steve would like you to believe, just because there is an apple on it does not make it magical.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I thought the article "San Diego Is Bridging the Digital Divide with Refurbished Computers for Low-Income Families" was about providing computers to low-income families.

Why does the OS installed on those computers matter when you look a the goals of the San Diego County Office of Education?

Personally, I don't think computers help that much when it comes to education. My children were privileged because we had a home computer starting in the late 1970's. They got better grades because they had typed homework the teacher could read easily, the spell checker covered up their spelling problems, and so on.

Did the computer teach them to solve problems, think logically, analyze quantitative and qualitative data?

NO!

The computer was simply a tool that enabled them to get their work done more efficiently, and sadly, just more appealing to the teachers.

[neu5eeCh]

Personally, I don't think computers help that much when it comes to education. My children were privileged because we had a home computer starting in the late 1970's. They got better grades because they had typed homework the teacher could read easily, the spell checker covered up their spelling problems, and so on.

Did the computer teach them to solve problems, think logically, analyze quantitative and qualitative data?

NO!

Interesting that you would say that. I was a child of the 70's and my first computer was a TRS-80. I can't imagine what software they were using in the late 70's that had a spell checker, but maybe you are referring to later computers...

My experience contradicts you. My Apple IIe taught me, and precisely: how to solve problems (algorithms), how to think logically (basic and pascal), how to analyze quantitative and qualitative data (building a database and programming).

Before I started programming, word problems were a complete mystery to me. Afterward, I relished word problems.

Sadly perhaps, modern computers don't expose children to that same sense of exploration. All the software is already written for them. If I needed the computer to do something, I programmed it. Those days are largely gone.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

Interesting that you would say that. I was a child of the 70's and my first computer was a TRS-80. I can't imagine what software they were using in the late 70's that had a spell checker, but maybe you are referring to later computers...

Yes, in the 1970's, if you wanted a word processor, checkbook program, etc., you had to write the program yourself. It was a decade later before there was a rudimentary spell checker.


My experience contradicts you. My Apple IIe taught me, and precisely: how to solve problems (algorithms), how to think logically (basic and pascal), how to analyze quantitative and qualitative data (building a database and programming).

If you are old enough to have used the Apple IIe; then, I don't think you are in the same generation that is being discussed in the referenced article. :)


Sadly perhaps, modern computers don't expose children to that same sense of exploration. All the software is already written for them. If I needed the computer to do something, I programmed it. Those days are largely gone.

I think what you stated sums it up well. So far we have limited our discussion to computer science. I wonder what would happen if we included chemistry, mechanics, physics, and so on, in he discussion.

___________

The purpose of education is to help you learn to solve problems, think logically, analyze quantitative and qualitative data. Both of us have used computers for quite some time. Was it the use of a computer that taught these things to you, or was the computer a tool that facilitated that learning? For me, the computer was just a dumb box that efficiently did what I told it to do.

I learned semi-conductor physics using a chalkboard. Sure it is great to have the computer do the number crunching for you; however, you have to posses the insight to know what to enter into a program, and know how to interpret the result.

It just irritates me that some schools think that computers are going to solve all their problems.

[wolfen69]

Isn't it an offence to give someone else an old computer with the Windows o/s still installed? Doesn't the EULA state that is is for single use only?


Of course you are allowed to sell or give away your pc with windows on it. The single use only thing means that the license key used on that computer, can well, only be used on that computer. It has nothing to do with selling it though.

[Paqman]

Personally, I don't think computers help that much when it comes to education.

Computers don't, but internet access does.

I'm doing a degree through distance learning at the moment. Having access to the university's library online is absolutely invaluable. Teaching kids how to use the internet effectively to get good information should be a key goal of education these days.

[tgm4883]

Computers don't, but internet access does.

I'm doing a degree through distance learning at the moment. Having access to the university's library online is absolutely invaluable. Teaching kids how to use the internet effectively to get good information should be a key goal of education these days.

+1 to this.

I'll take it one step further and say with the internet, other than people wanting to see the piece of paper is college really necessary?

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

Computers don't, but internet access does.

I'm doing a degree through distance learning at the moment. Having access to the university's library online is absolutely invaluable. Teaching kids how to use the internet effectively to get good information should be a key goal of education these days.

Internet access didn't become available until a few years after I graduated from University with an engineering degree. We used libraries for research at the time. The Internet makes information readily available; however, like libraries students need to be taught how to use it effectively.

When I when back to University for my second degree, the Internet was available and well on its way to becoming what it is today. I used the Internet during that time and never went to the University's library. My second degree was an MBA. The professors in the school of business were mostly computer illiterate. It took considerable effort to get the professors to accept source citations that were URLs rather than book/article title, publisher, date, and author. :)

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

+1 to this.

I'll take it one step further and say with the internet, other than people wanting to see the piece of paper is college really necessary?

I've been in the engineering profession for 40 years. I learned about vacuum tubes in collage. I have been self-taught when it comes to the new technologies; however, the fundamental understanding of math, research, analysis, and logic I learned in school can not be replaced by a Google search.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

...(basic and pascal)...

:lolflag:

I just now noticed the pascal reference. A programming language that is almost dead.

[Bandit]

I've been thinking along similar lines. Firstly, if these pc's are loaded with XP, someone has to buy the licenses, and they aren't cheap. .....


You would be very surprised at what Microsoft gives away for academic purposes or to just get their foot in the door of peoples homes.

For example both my two copies of Windows7 32 and 64bit where given to me for free by M$ since I am a college student. As well as a whole plethora of other software like full or Pro versions of Visual Studio and Expression Web.

Check out MSDNA (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/academic/bb250591)

[tgm4883]

I've been in the engineering profession for 40 years. I learned about vacuum tubes in collage. I have been self-taught when it comes to the new technologies; however, the fundamental understanding of math, research, analysis, and logic I learned in school can not be replaced by a Google search.

I'll agree with that, but I counter with that should be something learned in K-12. After that I think it very much could be replaced by a google search.

[jerenept]

:lolflag:

I just now noticed the pascal reference. A programming language that is almost dead.

There is a perfectly good compiler (http://freepascal.org/), Geany does syntax highlighting and code folding perfectly, not to mention Bloodshed Dev-Pascal, Lazarus (http://lazarus.freepascal.org/) (which makes GUI design really easy), and, of course, p2c (apt://p2c) which converts Pascal source code into C.

Do you use PeaZip by any chance? It's written entirely in Pascal. It's pretty freaking great.

{end fanboy rant :P}

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I'll agree with that, but I counter with that should be something learned in K-12. After that I think it very much could be replaced by a google search.

Yes, it should be learned in K-12; however, in my country those skills aren't taught in K-12. The educational system appears to be lazy, and think computers will do the education for them and they can rest on their laurels.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

Do you use PeaZip by any chance? It's written entirely in Pascal. It's pretty freaking great.

{end fanboy rant :P}

No, I don't use PeaZip. I didn't mean to offend.

I think I may have made comments to this thread that moved it off topic. I apologize. I hope it can get back on topic regarding the project to supply PCs to families that need them.

[Dustin2128]

Don't see much of a point if the families can't afford a net connection. Still, gotta say that 71% of families in the area owning/having access to a computer is pretty impressive for a low income area.

[tgm4883]

Yes, it should be learned in K-12; however, in my country those skills aren't taught in K-12. The educational system appears to be lazy, and think computers will do the education for them and they can rest on their laurels.

Then I feel sorry for the country you live in, however we are likely in the same country.

[itguy1985]

The whole thing sounds a little to communist for liking. This isn't Liberia. If your children need computers get jobs and bye them.

[Dustin2128]

The whole thing sounds a little to communist for liking. This isn't Liberia. If your children need computers get jobs and bye them.
:lolflag:

[tgm4883]

The whole thing sounds a little to communist for liking. This isn't Liberia. If your children need computers get jobs and bye them.

If you are going to spew that crap, at least get it correct. It's socialist, not communist.

[Dustin2128]

If you are going to spew that crap, at least get it correct. It's socialist, not communist.
I'm pretty sure they're joking.

[itguy1985]

If you are going to spew that crap, at least get it correct. It's socialist, not communist.

I was kind of torn between socialist, or communist. I figured either one would work though. I spelled buy wrong too. The point remains the same though; I'm a full time student who works at a pizza shop, and I managed to buy my son a computer. I just can't see a need for programs like this. A program that takes kids away from parents that can't take care of them would be more appropriate.

[Bandit]

Don't see much of a point if the families can't afford a net connection. Still, gotta say that 71% of families in the area owning/having access to a computer is pretty impressive for a low income area.

You can get wireless broadband internet in SanDiego for as low as 19.95 a month. Well they call it broadband, 48kb/s download, well its better then 3kb/s with dail-up. But at least it worked great with Linux when I had it and could play online MMOs with it also.

[Bandit]

The whole thing sounds a little to communist for liking. This isn't Liberia. If your children need computers get jobs and bye them.
You do realize a descent 2 bedroom apartment a lone in SD can run you 1,600.00 a month? I seen houses in SD cost over 1mil that would normally only go for 150k here in MS.

Your Dollar may go further in some states and go less in others. Please keep an open mind. You never want to ASSume anything. ;-)

[Dustin2128]

You can get wireless broadband internet in SanDiego for as low as 19.95 a month. Well they call it broadband, 48kb/s download, well its better then 3kb/s with dail-up. But at least it worked great with Linux when I had it and could play online MMOs with it also.
By wireless broadband... 4G, 3G, or something else? Sounds good though.

[itguy1985]

Still, gotta say that 71% of families in the area owning/having access to a computer is pretty impressive for a low income area.

In the US, only the most absolute degenerates can't afford Internet connected computers. These are your crack/base heads, heroin junkies, complete lazyness, whatever. Giving computers to these people's children is like handing their parents a $20 bill, and telling them to go score some rocks. I don't think it's spouting crap, I just see stuff like this everyday. You know how many times people have tried to sell me their food stamp cards?

[itguy1985]

You do realize a descent 2 bedroom apartment a lone in SD can run you 1,600.00 a month? I seen houses in SD cost over 1mil that would normally only go for 150k here in MS.

Your Dollar may go further in some states and go less in others. Please keep an open mind. You never want to ASSume anything. ;-)

The jobs pay more too though. It all balances out in the end. Out hear a 2 bedroom apt. runs about $750, but the average income is under 30,000 a year.

[Bandit]

By wireless broadband... 4G, 3G, or something else? Sounds good though.
Very simulator but not through the phone line. Its a Metro Area Network (MAN). Uses little external style modems that are very light and have built in battery that last a few hours. I cant remember the name of the company to save my life tho. But looking for the name I did notice that Cox Comm. has 15Mbps unlimeted access for only 19.95 a month.. Makes me want to send Comcast nasty gram about me playing $70 a month!!

[Bandit]

The jobs pay more too though. It all balances out in the end. Out hear a 2 bedroom apt. runs about $750, but the average income is under 30,000 a year.

Minimum wage is still minimum wage. You say pays more, yea. McDonalds in SD pays $8 a hour -vs- $7.25 a hour here in Mississippi. So even if you make 50k a year, almost 20k will go to housing a year. I lived there for 4 years by the way.

[Dustin2128]

In the US, only the most absolute degenerates can't afford Internet connected computers. These are your crack/base heads, heroin junkies, complete lazyness, whatever. Giving computers to these people's children is like handing their parents a $20 bill, and telling them to go score some rocks. I don't think it's spouting crap, I just see stuff like this everyday. You know how many times people have tried to sell me their food stamp cards?
I live in the (rural) US, and know many people who legitimatley cannot justify buying a computer with internet access.

[itguy1985]

I live in the (rural) US, and know many people who legitimatley cannot justify buying a computer with internet access.

And they are not smokers, drinkers, drug addicts? If this is true, I will apologize.

[Dustin2128]

And they are not smokers, drinkers, drug addicts? If this is true, I will apologize.
Not smokers or druggies, light drinkers but so is almost everybody.

[itguy1985]

Not smokers or druggies, light drinkers but so is almost everybody.

I wouldn't dare call smokers or social drinkers degenerate, but for the price of 3 packs of smokes, or a 12 pack of beer, you can have Internet. It's not that they can't afford it, they just choose to spend their money on other stuff.

[DougieFresh4U]

Got my first computer from Micrecycle (http://micrecycle.org/index.htm) ( in 2002) a volunteer program here in upstate New York.


Our mission is to provide computers for education. Micrecycle refurbishes donated equipment to supply high-quality, affordable computers to families, schools and community organizations.

We support community technology access and training for all members of the greater Rochester community.

Micrecycle is a volunteer-based program dedicated to the vision that all people have affordable access to the benefits of computer and information technology.

Micrecycle is a program of Action for a Better Community, Inc.

Please explore our site now to see how, together, we can bridge the digital divide.
Computers cost just $30-$160.
All computer systems include a monitor, keyboard, mouse, network card, CD-ROM drive, OpenOffice or Microsoft Office Software Suite and Microsoft Windows XP Professional.

Upgrade options include modems, DVD-ROM drives, and CD burners.

[Bandit]

I wouldn't dare call smokers or social drinkers degenerate, but for the price of 3 packs of smokes, or a 12 pack of beer, you can have Internet. It's not that they can't afford it, they just choose to spend their money on other stuff.
That is true... :)

[Fedz]

Here in UK we have Dial-up (56k modem) via phonelines or ADSL broadband via phoneline.
If you live in a cabled area you can choose that - similar to ADSL but, fibre optic lines.
Also we have Mobile Broadband via a usb dongle which is about 3meg.

I live in a rural farming area & have 3G mobile broadband (£15 for 15GB bandwidth p/m) as this house is a new build & it isn't connected to a phoneline or cabled.

I'd never touch another cabled internet connection again after having the freedom of 3G mobile broadband for nearly 2 yrs :)

Point is £3.75 p/w for broadband is the price of a 4-pack beer or 10 cigs here & computers can be got from your local Yahoo FreeRecycle for free :)

[Legendary_Bibo]

computers can be got from your local Yahoo FreeRecycle for free :)

I've gotten a broken G3 Mac CRT monitor, broken ball mice, and a shell of a 12 year old laptop (only had the motherboard, CPU, etc. but no hard drive, battery, or AC charger (64mb RAM) through my yahoo freecycle thing. All of this stuff went to the trash because it was damaged beyond repair, or just absolute junk. One time a guy was giving away a decent server that would have been perfect, but I missed my chance.

I still get emails from people asking if they can drop off their broken computer accessories that they've held onto for 10 years.

[Dale61]

We've had people try to palm off their unrepairable pc componentry through our freecycle group, but the recipient was quick to advise the mods, and the donating member was soon removed from the group.

Our group insists that items must still be in working condition, or can be used to do what they were designed to do. We also have a $250 limit when asking for items.