What can you do with Unity or Gnome Shell that I can't do with Classic Gnome?

[kansasnoob]

I decided to change the dialogue regarding the introduction of Unity as the default Ubuntu DE and Gnome Shell as the default Gnome DE.

I really want to know what the Unity and/or Gnome Shell lovers can do that we "Classic" lovers can't do?

Or what you can do better?

Or what you can do faster?

Or "mousier"?

Instead of we who find the new DE's repulsive being bombarded with comments about our stupidity please explain exactly what you can do now that you couldn't do before!

[Docaltmed]

1. single-keystroke access to applications (no more nested menus, yay!)

2. increased useful screen space.

3. single-keystroke access to data files

4. Using CCSM plugins, I can rapidly shift among open windows as well as minimized programs. Much, much faster than on the old desktop.

That's good enough for me!

[Larkspur]

1. single-keystroke access to applications (no more nested menus, yay!)

2. increased useful screen space.

3. single-keystroke access to data files

4. Using CCSM plugins, I can rapidly shift among open windows as well as minimized programs. Much, much faster than on the old desktop.

That's good enough for me!

+1

Also, I like the way that Unity allows you to focus on what you're doing now; all extraneous parts of the UI are hidden until you need them, and you can get direct access to them. It still has a way to go, but what we have now is more than usable. Also, there's no longer that two-panel system, one at the top and one at the bottom. How did that last so long?

[wojox]

http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=192728&stc=1&d=1305928050

[neu5eeCh]

1. single-keystroke access to applications (no more nested menus, yay!)

Really? I had no trouble assigning apps to keystrokes in Gnome2?


2. increased useful screen space.

(?) Certainly not with Gnome 3. I could autohide the bars in Gnome 2 (or delete them) and get more room than either Unity or Gnome3.


3. single-keystroke access to data files

Already had that...


4. Using CCSM plugins, I can rapidly shift among open windows as well as minimized programs. Much, much faster than on the old desktop.

That's good enough for me!

I haven't noticed any speed gains, but that's not something Unity or Gnome3 can do that Gnome2 couldn't. Just saying...

[beew]

1. single-keystroke access to applications (no more nested menus, yay!)

2. increased useful screen space.

3. single-keystroke access to data files

4. Using CCSM plugins, I can rapidly shift among open windows as well as minimized programs. Much, much faster than on the old desktop.

That's good enough for me!

1. I suppose you mean the dock, there are quite a few better docks you can install on gnome 2 (Cairo, Awn)

2. Yeah, a few pixels on the top at the cost of weird menu behaviour, unusable top panel and strange menu bugs, awkwardness for multiple windowes.It is real good trade off,--not really. It may make some sense for netbooks but certainly not for desktops and laptops with bigger screens.

3.There isn't even a Places function in Unity so I am not sure what you are talking about (hopefully it will be implemented in 11.10)

4.CCSM is available in the old desktop and there are many more ways to focus and switch between applications which no longer work in Unity.

[Larkspur]

1. I suppose you mean the dock, there are quite a few better docks you can install on gnome 2 (Cairo, Awn)

You can get them in Unity too, so if you want to use them, you can. What do you mean, "better"? More customization? That's true.


2. Yeah, a few pixels on the top at the cost of weird menu behaviour, unusable top panel and strange menu bugs, awkwardness for multiple windowes.It is real good trade off,--not really. It may make some sense for netbooks but certainly not for desktops and laptops with bigger screens.

I haven't noticed this myself, but I've seen enough reports on this forum to know it is a problem for a few. If it's that much of a problem, you could uninstall the global menu package, I believe? Hopefully, the quirks will be ironed out by 11.10


3.There isn't even a Places function in Unity so I am not sure what you are talking about (hopefully it will be implemented in 11.10)

It's there now; if you have focus on the Desktop and go to the menu bar, there's a Places menu there. But why do you need it when Super+1 brings up nautilus? Another possible solution would be to add a quicklist; a quicklist editor has recently been released.


4.CCSM is available in the old desktop and there are many more ways to focus and switch between applications which no longer work in Unity.

But there are ones that do. In fact, the only one that I think could be argued to not work would be focus-follows-mouse.

[Frogs Hair]

Instead of we who find the new DE's repulsive being bombarded with comments about our stupidity please explain exactly what you can do now that you couldn't do before!

I haven't seen this and wojox's assessment of the thread is correct .

[beew]

You can get them in Unity too, so if you want to use them, you can. What do you mean, "better"? More customization? That's true.
Yes I know, but why would I want or need two docks?? That will be a very cluttered desktop. If the Unity bar is good enough I shouldn't need another one such as AWN, if it is not then I should be able to remove it and use an alternative.

I don't see how the ridiculous "option" of using two docks is a strength to Unity.


I haven't noticed this myself, but I've seen enough reports on this forum to know it is a problem for a few. If it's that much of a problem, you could uninstall the global menu package, I believe? Hopefully, the quirks will be ironed out by 11.10

I did remove the global menu but that doesn't solve all the problems because the whole design of the top panel and the menu system is based on having the global menu so the odd menu bugs still remain (like LibreOffice opening full screen without any button) and the top panel still remain useless.

Again this doesn't prove that you can do more with Unity (to answer OP's question), even if there is no other side effects it just prove that Unity has some features that you can opt out (which is not the case)


It's there now; if you have focus on the Desktop and go to the menu bar, there's a Places menu there. But why do you need it when Super+1 brings up nautilus? Another possible solution would be to add a quicklist; a quicklist editor has recently been released.
What if I want to open several instances of Nautilus to move things from one folder to another?

[kansasnoob]

http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=192728&stc=1&d=1305928050

If you're calling me a troll I find that offensive.

If not please explain.

[tgm4883]

What if I want to open several instances of Nautilus to move things from one folder to another?

This is going to totally sound like I'm trolling, or channeling Steve Jobs here, but if you are opening several instances of Nautilus in order to move files from folder to folder then you are doing it wrong.

It's much easier to hit F3 and split nautilus in 2

[kansasnoob]

1. single-keystroke access to applications (no more nested menus, yay!)

2. increased useful screen space.

3. single-keystroke access to data files

4. Using CCSM plugins, I can rapidly shift among open windows as well as minimized programs. Much, much faster than on the old desktop.

That's good enough for me!

As compared to:

192737

I click on the Main Menu button once and everything is exposed with only the movement of the mouse. Apps and places are accessible without my hand ever leaving the mouse :)

How is taking my hand off the mouse and banging on keys faster?

[tgm4883]

I really want to know what the Unity and/or Gnome Shell lovers can do that we "Classic" lovers can't do?


Continue to get updates from the Gnome developers.

[kansasnoob]

As compared to:

192737

I click on the Main Menu button once and everything is exposed with only the movement of the mouse. Apps and places are accessible without my hand ever leaving the mouse :)

How is taking my hand off the mouse and banging on keys faster?

Oh, and show me how Unity increases available screen space compared to that.

[kansasnoob]

Continue to get updates from the Gnome developers.

Now, that's one of those fear mongering, gnome2 is no longer supported, scare tactics!

You better let Debian know that Squeeze is already borked.

[kansasnoob]

Really? I had no trouble assigning apps to keystrokes in Gnome2?



(?) Certainly not with Gnome 3. I could autohide the bars in Gnome 2 (or delete them) and get more room than either Unity or Gnome3.



Already had that...



I haven't noticed any speed gains, but that's not something Unity or Gnome3 can do that Gnome2 couldn't. Just saying...

Thank you, facts are sparse among the fan boys :(

[rewyllys]

This is going to totally sound like I'm trolling, or channeling Steve Jobs here, but if you are opening several instances of Nautilus in order to move files from folder to folder then you are doing it wrong.

It's much easier to hit F3 and split nautilus in 2
Great tip! Thank you!:popcorn:

[kansasnoob]

1. I suppose you mean the dock, there are quite a few better docks you can install on gnome 2 (Cairo, Awn)

2. Yeah, a few pixels on the top at the cost of weird menu behaviour, unusable top panel and strange menu bugs, awkwardness for multiple windowes.It is real good trade off,--not really. It may make some sense for netbooks but certainly not for desktops and laptops with bigger screens.

3.There isn't even a Places function in Unity so I am not sure what you are talking about (hopefully it will be implemented in 11.10)

4.CCSM is available in the old desktop and there are many more ways to focus and switch between applications which no longer work in Unity.

Thank you also, particularly regarding "Places"!

[wojox]

If you're calling me a troll I find that offensive.

If not please explain.

Your trying to start a flame war over a desktop environment. If your spin is so great go and use it. I am not calling you personally a troll, but your thread comes across that way.

[kansasnoob]

I haven't seen this and wojox's assessment of the thread is correct .

So please just tell us what you can do with Unity or Gnome Shell that I can't do easier and faster with gnome 2, please :)

[Larkspur]

Yes I know, but why would I want or need two docks?? That will be a very cluttered desktop. If the Unity bar is good enough I shouldn't need another one such as AWN, if it is not then I should be able to remove it and use an alternative.

I don't see how the ridiculous "option" of using two docks is a strength to Unity.

I have seen screenshots of people using two docks (with one specifically for folders and bookmarks, for example), but I didn't mean that, I should have been clearer: if you autohide the launcher and make it hard for you to open it accidentally (mapping the reveal edge to the top corner) you can use another dock exclusively. I believe you can switch off the unity plugin altogether.

Personally, as someone who has used Cario-dock, Docky, AWN - and, for about two minutes, Simdock - in 10.04 I find three disadvantages to using the Unity launcher bar: the lack of widgets, the small number of customization options (though I think you'll agree, Cario-dock went overboard in the other direction) and the poor implementation of window previews (though the mini-expo effect when you click on a launcher with several instances open is a mark in Unity's favour).



I did remove the global menu but that doesn't solve all the problems because the whole design of the top panel and the menu system is based on having the global menu so the odd menu bugs still remain (like LibreOffice opening full screen without any button) and the top panel still remain useless.

They should fix that, I agree, especially the LO bug. As a workaround for now, try Alt+F5; that should unmaximise the window. If you want to make it permanent, go to cssm>window management>Place Windows and set Placement Mode to "Centered."


What if I want to open several instances of Nautilus to move things from one folder to another?

Open the first instance and right-click on the Places in the side pane you want to open and select "Open in New Window."

[tgm4883]

Now, that's one of those fear mongering, gnome2 is no longer supported, scare tactics!

You better let Debian know that Squeeze is already borked.

Now hold the F on.

Gnome2 isn't developed anymore, which means no more updates/patches for it. While that sucks for some people it certainly is true. You can't expect a large company to want to foot the bill and pick up where an upstream project has given up.

Gnome3 is apparently super customizable as it is all javascript. Apparently there are already plugins for it that make it work like Gnome2. As you have previously posted, you already have your gnome2 desktop super customized, so what is the difference if you are customizing Gnome2 or Gnome3.

It seems to be you have more of an issue with what the defaults of Unity/Gnome-shell. I must ask, why?

1) You already customize your desktop so defaults are already out the window.
2) The codebase for Gnome2 is no longer developed, so that is a reason to move on.
3) Gnome3 is super customizable and can look and feel like Gnome2, yet on the new codebase.

If you can get what you want using Gnome3 with what appears to be a similar amount of effort from you, what is your big issue with Gnome3/Unity? Whether you like it or not, to me you sure do sound like a troll.

[Dustin2128]

I think the mods have been locked in that SMG battle for kiwi's old position for over 72 hours now.

[kansasnoob]

So, up to this moment, no one can name one thing that they can do with the newer DE's that I can't do with Classic?

Just a lot of hatred towards me for asking a question.

Great crowd :(

[Copper Bezel]

You can get them in Unity too, so if you want to use them, you can. What do you mean, "better"? More customization? That's true.

No, actually better, as in "not leaving out basic usability features."

What can you do with Unity or Gnome Shell that you can't do with Gnome Classic? Have a decently functional desktop without having to configure anything. If you're talking about AWN or Cairo Dock, you're not talking about the Classic desktop.

The Unity panels are also easier to replace than the Gnome Panel, for what it's worth. I'd much rather use AWN and Synapse, and I do, but 99% of users don't know that they exist.

Searching really is faster than the Main Menu, especially with Synapse, Do, or Kupfer. A dock means it's possible to have larger, more readable, and easier-to-click icons for a larger number of quick launch items in the same amount of pixel space, because it's performing the function of the task bar, too, and putting it on the left is shockingly ergonomic.

Keeping the dock hidden and merging the panel with the menubar, as well as the title bar for maximized windows, really does offer the most screen space that any configuration reasonably could; the menu needs to stay accessible, and title bars for non-maximized windows are necessary for moving them around.

The two best things about the Gnome Panel were that you could (1) change it and (2) get rid of it. Think about that for a second.


This is going to totally sound like I'm trolling, or channeling Steve Jobs here, but if you are opening several instances of Nautilus in order to move files from folder to folder then you are doing it wrong.

It's much easier to hit F3 and split nautilus in 2

So can I still use Thunar this way, as it's designed for it? = P It makes spatial sense.

[kansasnoob]

Now hold the F on.

Gnome2 isn't developed anymore, which means no more updates/patches for it. While that sucks for some people it certainly is true. You can't expect a large company to want to foot the bill and pick up where an upstream project has given up.

Gnome3 is apparently super customizable as it is all javascript. Apparently there are already plugins for it that make it work like Gnome2. As you have previously posted, you already have your gnome2 desktop super customized, so what is the difference if you are customizing Gnome2 or Gnome3.

It seems to be you have more of an issue with what the defaults of Unity/Gnome-shell. I must ask, why?

1) You already customize your desktop so defaults are already out the window.
2) The codebase for Gnome2 is no longer developed, so that is a reason to move on.
3) Gnome3 is super customizable and can look and feel like Gnome2, yet on the new codebase.

If you can get what you want using Gnome3 with what appears to be a similar amount of effort from you, what is your big issue with Gnome3/Unity? Whether you like it or not, to me you sure do sound like a troll.

But, look back at my OP.

You're changing the topic :D

I asked very brief, explicit questions.

[kansasnoob]

Your trying to start a flame war over a desktop environment. If your spin is so great go and use it. I am not calling you personally a troll, but your thread comes across that way.

I'm not starting anything!

I asked a question!

[Larkspur]

Kansasnoob, Copper Bezel has just answered your OP really well.

[kansasnoob]

BTW, expecting ubiquity will need less work in Oneiric, what I'm actually doing is trying to come up with some good arguing points to present at Ayatana for either improving Unity or getting Ubuntu to include a pure gnome DE by default.

I am not "flaming"! I really wanted to know what you Unity and/or Gnome Shell lovers feel you can do that we Neanderthals can't.

It's become impossible to have a reasonable conversation regarding the whole DE controversy. At least here at the forums it has :(

[kansasnoob]

No, actually better, as in "not leaving out basic usability features."

What can you do with Unity or Gnome Shell that you can't do with Gnome Classic? Have a decently functional desktop without having to configure anything. If you're talking about AWN or Cairo Dock, you're not talking about the Classic desktop.

The Unity panels are also easier to replace than the Gnome Panel, for what it's worth. I'd much rather use AWN and Synapse, and I do, but 99% of users don't know that they exist.

Searching really is faster than the Main Menu, especially with Synapse, Do, or Kupfer. A dock means it's possible to have larger, more readable, and easier-to-click icons for a larger number of quick launch items in the same amount of pixel space, because it's performing the function of the task bar, too, and putting it on the left is shockingly ergonomic.

Keeping the dock hidden and merging the panel with the menubar, as well as the title bar for maximized windows, really does offer the most screen space that any configuration reasonably could; the menu needs to stay accessible, and title bars for non-maximized windows are necessary for moving them around.

The two best things about the Gnome Panel were that you could (1) change it and (2) get rid of it. Think about that for a second.



So can I still use Thunar this way, as it's designed for it? = P It makes spatial sense.

Have a decently functional desktop without having to configure anything.

That's certainly not been my experience. Read here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10842430&postcount=95

I actually added a bit more in the next post.

The Unity panels are also easier to replace than the Gnome Panel

Seriously? Easier than a right-click and clicking on properties? Please show me.

[gsmanners]

1. single-keystroke access to applications (no more nested menus, yay!)

Whether you want them or not. Yay? And you couldn't before?


2. increased useful screen space.

I had far more space with Ubuntu than Unity has. And I could make even more. You can't.


3. single-keystroke access to data files

Once again, whether you want them or not. Is this really a feature?


4. Using CCSM plugins, I can rapidly shift among open windows as well as minimized programs.

Faster than me? I highly doubt it.


Much, much faster than on the old desktop.

[citation needed]

I think we all know who the REAL troll is in this thread.

[wojox]

So, up to this moment, no one can name one thing that they can do with the newer DE's that I can't do with Classic?

Just a lot of hatred towards me for asking a question.

Great crowd :(

Put a cool dock on the side and make it look nice and hide the way Unity does.

Do you have Lens?

Do your windows integrate into the top menu?

Your picture looks looks like something I could easily configure by booting into Classic.

I thought your spin was aimed at Gnome Shell?

[Dustin2128]

Faster than me? I highly doubt it.

Don't assume- some compiz plugins allow for extremely fast window shifting. I move my mouse to the upper right corner and it brings this list of windows up. I move it to the bottom left and it minimizes everything. Gesture recogintion ftw! For the record I'm using xfce- I dislike shell.

[wojox]

I am not "flaming"! I really wanted to know what you Unity and/or Gnome Shell lovers feel you can do that we Neanderthals can't.

We have learned to walk upright and move on with the changes. :P

[CharlesA]

This thread is just going to keep going downhill.

Closed.