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krapp
May 14th, 2011, 11:02 PM
Why aren't BSD devotees in search of new souls? I get the feeling that GPL software attracts users that are much more interested in gathering yet more into the fold, whereas the BSDs aren't looking for converts at all, and are ultimately indifferent to their number of users. Are these misconceptions? If they are, how so? If they aren't, why so?

exploder
May 14th, 2011, 11:11 PM
I have read quite a few peoples comments on how much they like BSD. The majority of users must just quietly enjoy their operating system of choice. :)

el_koraco
May 15th, 2011, 02:59 AM
It's the Structured Way. Not something you'd understand.

krapp
May 15th, 2011, 03:09 AM
:)

boydrice
May 16th, 2011, 02:33 AM
Why aren't BSD devotees in search of new souls? I get the feeling that GPL software attracts users that are much more interested in gathering yet more into the fold, whereas the BSDs aren't looking for converts at all, and are ultimately indifferent to their number of users. Are these misconceptions? If they are, how so? If they aren't, why so?

I think the Ubuntu Forums is the wrong place to look for a lot of BSD feedback. Try the mailing lists of the respective projects to get real feedback, but consider yourself warned if you send that to the OpenBSD-misc mailinglist ;).
miwi.bsdcrew.de/2011/03/freebsd-needs-fresh-blood/

krapp
May 16th, 2011, 02:46 AM
I think the Ubuntu Forums is the wrong place to look for a lot of BSD feedback. Try the mailing lists of the respective projects to get real feedback, but consider yourself warned if you send that to the OpenBSD-misc mailinglist ;).
miwi.bsdcrew.de/2011/03/freebsd-needs-fresh-blood/

One of the comments from the link you posted, which confirms my initial suspicions:


Again, I love FreeBSD, but that is in spite of its developer support and response to end users, not because of it. FreeBSD is a fantastic project and the quality is generally very good, but from the outside it comes across as wanting to exist without the nuisance of actual real-world end users. My guess is that this at least contributes to the fact that the dog’s breakfast that is Linux manages to outperform FreeBSD from a marketing perspective. If you want more mindshare, then you’d better demonstrate to the end users that you appreciate them.

I have no doubt that FreeBSD needs more developers, but a fair number of its current ones need a major attitude adjustment as well if FreeBSD is to live up to its potential. Please don’t take on any new developers that are keen on the design and coding work but not on working with end users.

boydrice
May 16th, 2011, 03:03 AM
To me the biggest difference between the BSDs and Linux is the amount of corporate sponsored development. There seem to be more companies paying for development in Linux than on the BSDs. I wish more companies got behind the BSDs as iXsystems has done with FreeNAS and PC-BSD. I would love to see a competitor to Red Hat and SUSE in the enterprise that deployed BSD solutions as I think this would be healthy for FLOSS in general but end-users as well. This is unlikely to happen but one can hope.

C!oud
May 16th, 2011, 04:00 AM
They're operating systems not religions.

krapp
May 16th, 2011, 06:29 AM
They're operating systems not religions.

Not all religions desire new followers!

kaldor
May 16th, 2011, 04:35 PM
They're operating systems not religions.

http://penguin.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/academic/unix/linux/slides/saintignucius.jpg

arvevans
May 16th, 2011, 07:21 PM
BSD seems to be in a declining spiral. New converts to any system are always it's most vocal advertisers and recruiters. If the number of new converts declines, then there are fewer new devotes to evangelize....which brings in even fewer new converts...well, you get the picture.

krapp
May 16th, 2011, 10:47 PM
That's too bad. It's a shame, really, considering how successful a piece of FLOSS it is. The BSDs are in dire need of a large dose of fanboyism.

boydrice
May 17th, 2011, 02:37 AM
That's too bad. It's a shame, really, considering how successful a piece of FLOSS it is. The BSDs are in dire need of a large dose of fanboyism.

I disagree, the BSD's need traction in the enterprise more than fanboys. Apparently Yahoo has been moving from BSD to Red Hat after many years of being a FreeBSD stronghold. They need a corporate sponsor that is proud to advertise they use BSD solutions in the enterprise. The GUI admin tools developed in Linux because companies like Red Hat and SUSE wanted to lessen the curve of admin/IT adoption.

C!oud
May 18th, 2011, 06:15 AM
Not all religions desire new followers!

No but the concept of evangelism is derived from religion and is the hallmark of several major ones.



BSD seems to be in a declining spiral. New converts to any system are always it's most vocal advertisers and recruiters. If the number of new converts declines, then there are fewer new devotes to evangelize....which brings in even fewer new converts...well, you get the picture.

I disagree, *BSD doesn't attract the same type of flag touting 12 year olds that linux does. There's obviously exceptions to everything, but in general you're describing a flawed model based upon evagenlical "converts" as being the basis for success. The *BSD projects generally focus upon the server aspects of each project which more often then not attracts a more experienced userbase looking for a mature production environment.



That's too bad. It's a shame, really, considering how successful a piece of FLOSS it is. The BSDs are in dire need of a large dose of fanboyism.
No operating system needs that.



I disagree, the BSD's need traction in the enterprise more than fanboys. Apparently Yahoo has been moving from BSD to Red Hat after many years of being a FreeBSD stronghold. They need a corporate sponsor that is proud to advertise they use BSD solutions in the enterprise. The GUI admin tools developed in Linux because companies like Red Hat and SUSE wanted to lessen the curve of admin/IT adoption.

I agree to an extent; corporate sponsors like iX Systems are a step in the right direction but they are still too small. As for Yahoo, last that I heard the decline in FreeBSD use has been mostly exaggerated since Yahoo is still contributing code to FreeBSD and won't release actual deployment numbers.

Otherwise there hasn't been any tangible decline in any of the *BSDs although they're all falling increasingly behind linux in regards to desktop use especially with the deprecation of such things as HAL and the introduction of the linux only udev.

handy
May 19th, 2011, 06:15 PM
I used FreeNAS for yonks; it never did a thing wrong. The only reason I don't use it now is that the machine I was using it on was vastly overpowered for the job & therefore environmentally inefficient.

Years back I used PC-BSD, it was a terrific system & had the best KDE implementation I have ever seen. (& I've never been a KDE fan.)

Using the "evangelism" word in the thread topic name is just a subtle form of trolling to my mind. (Though I could be wrong, I was once before. ;))

wolfen69
May 19th, 2011, 11:06 PM
If BSD had the hardware and multimedia support linux had, I would give it a go. But not having wireless, tv tuner, and good multimedia support is not an option for me. But I guess it good for servers or those with very basic needs.

sffvba[e0rt
May 19th, 2011, 11:53 PM
PC-BSD's up and coming release might be interesting to look out for... some major improvements for desktop use sporting not only KDE as DE this time (and it might be short lived if Gnome decides to stop supporting everything that isn't Linux :/)


404

krapp
May 20th, 2011, 12:41 AM
Using the "evangelism" word in the thread topic name is just a subtle form of trolling to my mind. (Though I could be wrong, I was once before. ;))

My use of evangelism is more serious than tongue in cheek but a little of the latter too. I mean it primarily as a strong form of advocacy so as to underline the need for advocacy qua active dissemination of FLOSS ideologies. I'm irreligious, but, not being in IT, in a different way from most people in IT, so perhaps that's why I don't feel such contempt for the word. I'm not trying to troll BSD, and as partial as I may be to the GNU/Linux way of doing things, I would very much like to give a BSD a try one day .

boydrice
May 20th, 2011, 01:28 AM
My use of evangelism is more serious than tongue and cheek but a little of the latter too. I mean it primarily as a strong form of advocacy so as to underline the need for advocacy qua active dissemination of FLOSS ideologies. I'm irreligious, but, not being in IT, in a different way from most people in IT, so perhaps that's why I don't feel such contempt for the word. I'm not trying to troll BSD, and as partial as I may be to the GNU/Linux way of doing things, I would very much like to give a BSD a try one day .

Since you are a Debian user why not try the Debian k/FreeBSD release? It will give you the BSD kernel and the GNU userland.

krapp
May 20th, 2011, 03:59 AM
That would be the logical way to do it yes. Likewise with the Hurd. Debian is truly the universal OS! But their k/FreeBSD is pretty buggy at the moment. A good portion of the bugs listed when updating are specific to that project. So in good time I suppose.

handy
May 20th, 2011, 08:29 AM
Arch Hurd is perpetually moving forward too:

http://www.archhurd.org/

el_koraco
May 20th, 2011, 09:20 AM
Likewise with the Hurd.

From what I've seen the Debian developers say, getting Hurd to even install requires some serious voodoo.