Gnome 3 Shell Extensions? Why in the world do we need Unity now?

[irrdev]

When Natty was released, I decided to give both Unity AND Gnome 3 a fair chance. Prejudice aside, I laid aside my initial impressions of both desktops from the alpha and beta stages, and gave each a fair spin: Natty on my laptop, Fedora Beta with Gnome 3 on my desktop. I tested the latter because Gnome 3 causes some issues with Natty and causes apt to hold back many broken/missing dependencies. So... a quick rundown of my impressions:

- Unity: Unity demonstrates very good UI and interface design. I was impressed by the layout. Preferences are obviously lacking, but for most users, the default settings are pretty good. Unfortunately, as good as the design ideas are, the implementation is lacking in several areas

- Gnome 3: The funny aspect of Gnome 3 is that it demonstrates exactly the opposite development style of Unity. Gnome 3's interface and layout are lacking, but the implementation is superb. Sure, that still doesn't drastically change the user experience, but all animations, translucencies, shortcuts and other features work as expected. So, great development behind the design, but the design is flawed in so many ways that many users will never countenance using it...

Introducing Gnome Shell Extensions, an officially supported Gnome Project that nobody seems to have mentioned. The official project page is here (https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Extensions), but I would like to highlight the dock extension seen here (http://mygeekopinions.blogspot.com/2011/04/install-gnome-shell-extensions-expand.html). Doesn't that look uncannily like Unity's dock? These extensions solve many of Gnome Shell's issues. Not only that, using the shell extensions api, it's really easy to develop new extensions. So, my question is this... why in the world do we need Unity when it would have been extremely easy to develop a set of special Gnome Shell extensions for Ubuntu? I can recreate the excellent Unity interface design on top of the more polished and stable development of the Gnome Shell. Considering that this dock extension is officially supported by the Gnome project, I also wouldn't be the least surprised if it was implemented by default in a future version of the Shell. It's definitely worth checking out for anyone interested in a better implementation of the Unity desktop experience.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to reignite the Unity/Gnome Shell debate and Canonical's decision to go with the former. What I AM trying to do is offer a very good alternative for the many users who feel that neither desktop by itself offers a very good user experience at this point in time. By combining the best of both worlds, I find myself actually able to leave Gnome 2 behind.

[wolfen69]

As soon as Fedora 15 goes final, I am going to install gnome 3. I used it for a while in 11.04 until it broke after updates. But I think it is fantastic.

[screaminj3sus]

As soon as Fedora 15 goes final, I am going to install gnome 3. I used it for a while in 11.04 until it broke after updates. But I think it is fantastic.

I prefer gnome-shell to unity, but I think I'll still stick with ubuntu.

Fedora has too many issues for me (like the ridiculously ugly fonts, even if you tweak font rendering by installing freetype-freeworld or infinality which helps a lot. There is still issues with some fonts being ridiculously small on webpages ect... And no tweaking the min font size in the browser isn't a good solution as it makes some sites look wrong. All I know is I never have this issue with other distros and it manages to bother me to no end.) Fedora also seems lacking when it comes to packages compared to ubuntu (even with rpm fusion), and the package management still seems to have stability issues. /rant :P

But fedora is really the only distro embracing gnome 3 and using it as default right now, and does have the best implementation so far. Opensuses repo is buggy as all hell and so is ubuntu's. I think I am going to wait until Oneric, which should be simple to install gnome-shell on (based on gnome 3 libs). And by then both gnome 3 and unity should be far more polished.

[christoph411]

Once 11.10 rolls around and I can install Gnome Shell without breaking my system... I might actually try using this for a while! I tried it in Fedora a few months back, and I like our sheltered little Ubuntu world better. :P

[screaminj3sus]

The main thing I miss from gnome-shell when I use unity is empathy's messaging integration.

[christoph411]

I've been thinking about it and the more I think about, the less the switch to Unity it making sense! I mean, I know that the creation of Unity influenced the design of Gnome Shell to some degree, but I think if Canonical would have poured half of the effort into Gnome Shell that they did into Unity, we would have a much more polished final product.
So, if Canonical would have introduced Gnome Shell in 11.10, and Unity never existed, we would have almost exactly the same final product because the dock pictured could be offered by default, a new theme applied (with a drastic reduction in padding :P ), and Canonical could have worked with the creators of Gnome Shell to implement app indicators (if they already aren't...).
I firmly believe that this is what should have happened (and this is from a person who uses and enjoys unity everyday). They are both great desktop environments, but I don't see why we had to reinvent the wheel with unity? I also think that fragmentation is terrible, and this decision sure didn't help. I think that widespread fragmentation is the main reason why Linux just hasn't caught on in the consumer market yet...

/Rant :)

[aeronutt]

I think I'll give gnome3 another try, with the dock extension. :) I've gotten to like a few things with Unity, but it's a bit buggy on my laptop....slow in search, icons and menus sometimes randomly disappear.

[holiday]

I'm going to stick with 10.04 for a while.

[aeronutt]

Ok, I've installed gnome3. So far so good. A few things I already like better than Unity (much snappier response).

How do I install the dock extension? I don't see it in synaptic.

And from the web site you reference (http://mygeekopinions.blogspot.com/2011/04/install-gnome-shell-extensions-expand.html), it simply says:
"you should be able to install them using the same PPA for Gnome3 in Ubuntu"

[FuturePilot]

but I would like to highlight the dock extension seen here (http://mygeekopinions.blogspot.com/2011/04/install-gnome-shell-extensions-expand.html).

Now people can hate Gnome Shell as much as they hate Unity.:rolleyes:

[Bart_D]

I just can't stand Gnome Shell. I find it far too distracting.

Let me just say that I gave Unity a chance. I got used to it the first time I used it. If you've used Ubuntu before (weired that the majority of critics seem to be existing Ubuntu users), then you should really not have any problems navigating through the new UI....provided you give it a chance rather than dismissing it after 2.5 days. It's new....a lot of people hate change. If you want 1 click to open EVERYTHING, then you're being a bit unrealistic OR need to learn keyboard shortcuts for, you know, EVERYTHING!

Quite frankly, I am more concerned(in 11.04) about the fact that QtiPlot(Linux) is well below-par in comparison to Microcal Origin 8.5.1(Windows). Not the so-called plethora of UI issues with Unity....cause they really aren't issues at all!


..Gnome Shell ....I tried it in Fedora a few months back, and I like our sheltered little Ubuntu world better. :P

Me too buddy, me too!

[BigSilly]

Gnome 3 is absolutely fantastic. I don't know about Ubuntu's implementation of it, but I'm using it on Opensuse 11.4 and it's just been nothing short of amazing. They've pushed a ton of updates over the last couple of weeks, and I've still had no issues with it at all. If you want to try Gnome 3 and Shell, I would recommend Opensuse for sure. They've also put in the Gnome Tweak tool as default too, so you can make some basic customisations very easily, such as fonts, windows buttons etc, that left some early adopters a bit lost when trying Gnome 3 on other distros.

I've said elsewhere I quite like Unity, but I just don't find it as nice to use as Gnome 3, and crucially I still don't understand what it offers practically over Gnome 3 to warrant the development, especially when you consider the usability bugs still present in Ubuntu over several releases.

Still, now Canonical are travelling this path, I hope they make it work for them. I look forward to seeing where Unity goes. :)

[el_koraco]

So, my question is this... why in the world do we need Unity when it would have been extremely easy to develop a set of special Gnome Shell extensions for Ubuntu?

You mean you didn't follow the whole indicator API saga a few months back? It was beautiful.

[bmbaker]

I have been using gnome-shell exclusively now since the offical release, and i now have a fully functioning desktop running on ubuntu 11.04 with very little problems. we had linux day in berlin so i took my laptop along with me and was chatting with some of the guys there, from both the gnome and ubuntu stands, each one kept saying how problematic it was to get gnome-shell functioning on ubuntu so i showed them my setup and explained the the only real hardship for installing it was people don't research how to install it !! google is a great tool !!
I also tried unity for about a week on another partition and i really found it not so impressive!
but i really like ubuntu so i will stick with it!

[slooksterpsv]

The main thing I miss from gnome-shell when I use unity is empathy's messaging integration.

Amen, I find myself trying to find my Pidgin windows (had to get the pidgin libnotify from a ppa to have it show replies in the Unity bar); also Gnome 3, I love how you can reply to IMs anywhere.

Empathy already sucks by not opening a window/tab when you receive a new IM - sorry that's just bad design, I miss 75% of my conversations due to that. People send me an IM while I'm away, and I have to click on Empathy and scroll and find a flashing icon to see if anyone's IM'ed me, it's pathetic! But in Gnome 3, usually I notice it popping up at the bottom where it doesn't bother me as much.

But yeah, Pidgin is still my primary (unless I gnome 3 it then Empathy comes into play).

Just wanted to comment on that.

If Fedora had a nice package manager like Software Center (not Synaptic) and remove SELinux, (it's like Vista's security on crack, just too restrictive for the normal desktop user, java for example), I'd switch to Fedora.

[ilovelinux33467]

If Fedora had a nice package manager like Software Center (not Synaptic) and remove SELinux, (it's like Vista's security on crack, just too restrictive for the normal desktop user, java for example), I'd switch to Fedora.

You can disable it.

[Starlight]

The extensions are interesting, but it would be much more awesome if they were easily installable in a similar way as web browser extensions - no compiling, no waiting for someone to make packages, just click on "Add extension" and it's there.

[aeronutt]

Gnome3, not bad. But.......

What is it with Gnome3 and Unity that doesn't understand that I've paid $$$$'s for screen space, and the most valuable real estate on today's laptops is VERTICAL SCREEN SPACE. Both Gnome3 and Unity need to understand that. At least allow me the option to hide/move that top bar, and minimize the overhead on all window headers. There's a solid 1.5-2" of headers, panels, menu's, notifiers, etc on the top of the screen that need to be either removed, hidden, or fully customizable.

[ade234uk]

I prefer gnome-shell to unity, but I think I'll still stick with ubuntu.

Fedora has too many issues for me (like the ridiculously ugly fonts, even if you tweak font rendering by installing freetype-freeworld or infinality which helps a lot. There is still issues with some fonts being ridiculously small on webpages ect... And no tweaking the min font size in the browser isn't a good solution as it makes some sites look wrong. All I know is I never have this issue with other distros and it manages to bother me to no end.) Fedora also seems lacking when it comes to packages compared to ubuntu (even with rpm fusion), and the package management still seems to have stability issues. /rant :P

But fedora is really the only distro embracing gnome 3 and using it as default right now, and does have the best implementation so far. Opensuses repo is buggy as all hell and so is ubuntu's. I think I am going to wait until Oneric, which should be simple to install gnome-shell on (based on gnome 3 libs). And by then both gnome 3 and unity should be far more polished.

Could not agree with you more as regards Fedora. I spent two days with it, it annoyed the hell out of me. I installed Ubuntu 10.10 again and will wait until things become more stable on the Unity front. It's not until you try other Distro's like Fedora you appreciate how good Ubuntu is.

[screaminj3sus]

Amen, I find myself trying to find my Pidgin windows (had to get the pidgin libnotify from a ppa to have it show replies in the Unity bar); also Gnome 3, I love how you can reply to IMs anywhere.

Empathy already sucks by not opening a window/tab when you receive a new IM - sorry that's just bad design, I miss 75% of my conversations due to that. People send me an IM while I'm away, and I have to click on Empathy and scroll and find a flashing icon to see if anyone's IM'ed me, it's pathetic! But in Gnome 3, usually I notice it popping up at the bottom where it doesn't bother me as much.

But yeah, Pidgin is still my primary (unless I gnome 3 it then Empathy comes into play).

Just wanted to comment on that.

If Fedora had a nice package manager like Software Center (not Synaptic) and remove SELinux, (it's like Vista's security on crack, just too restrictive for the normal desktop user, java for example), I'd switch to Fedora.

Definitely agree. When I am using empathy in unity when I get an IM, I have to move my mouse all the way to the left, unhide the launcher, click empathy; or move my mouse to the top, click the indicator, click the message there. Compared to gnome 3 where you can reply without even having to click anything. At least pidgin will open a window when I get an im so I don't have to **** around to find the window. I think ubuntu should just shamelessly steal gnome 3's messaging integration :P



Gnome3, not bad. But.......

What is it with Gnome3 and Unity that doesn't understand that I've paid $$$$'s for screen space, and the most valuable real estate on today's laptops is VERTICAL SCREEN SPACE. Both Gnome3 and Unity need to understand that. At least allow me the option to hide/move that top bar, and minimize the overhead on all window headers. There's a solid 1.5-2" of headers, panels, menu's, notifiers, etc on the top of the screen that need to be either removed, hidden, or fully customizable.
I don't think this is true for unity. It definitely respects vertical space. The global menu bar and integrating maimsed windows with the titlebar make unity very space friendly by default. yeah you can't hide the top bar, but unity's design relies on it too much to make hiding it a viable option.

With gnome 3 you are right. This is one of my main criticisms of it. The theme [still] has too much padding. A maximized firefox window in gnome 3 just looks ridiculous, much wasted space. In gnome 3 I use chrome with the compact window border and have it maximized in its own workspace though, it actually looks pretty good.

[weasel fierce]

I hear KDE is pretty nice :)

[marl30]

Could not agree with you more as regards Fedora. I spent two days with it, it annoyed the hell out of me. I installed Ubuntu 10.10 again and will wait until things become more stable on the Unity front. It's not until you try other Distro's like Fedora you appreciate how good Ubuntu is.

You're so right. I've attempted to move to other distros before but always coming back to Ubuntu.

[forrestcupp]

As soon as Fedora 15 goes final, I am going to install gnome 3. I used it for a while in 11.04 until it broke after updates. But I think it is fantastic.

Wow, they're up to 15 now? I think I tried Fedora when it was Fedora 3.

[ilovelinux33467]

I hear KDE is pretty nice :)

Yes its very nice indeed :)

[cbowman57]

The extensions are interesting, but it would be much more awesome if they were easily installable in a similar way as web browser extensions - no compiling, no waiting for someone to make packages, just click on "Add extension" and it's there.

There is no compiling needed. I converted a gnome-shell-users-theme from a Fedora rpm with alien. The extensions are available, just copy the extension folder into ~/.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions If you're interested in seeing how far G3 can be pushed on ubuntu we've got a thread going on it, the link is in my signature.

I agree with you though, that would be a really slick way to install them.

[capink]

I like unity instantly. I am huge proponent of it. I especially like the way it allows me to switch running applications using the super key.

I have not tried gnome-shell because I heard it won't be officially available on Ubuntu until the next release, so I figured I will just wait.

But, when I started watching videos reading reviews of gnome-shell I liked a lot of what I saw like the workspace switcher and the fact that you can switch between multiple windows of the same application using the keyboard in an easy way.

The thing that captured my attention the most, however, was the fact that gnome-shell is extensible. So I began searching for extensions to replicate certain features I like in Unity. In my search I stumbled upon this thread. And it asked a very important question; why canonical did not use gnome-shell extension to do whatever they wanted to do? I have yet to hear a good answer.

[FlameReaper]

I like unity instantly. I am huge proponent of it. I especially like the way it allows me to switch running applications using the super key.

I have not tried gnome-shell because I heard it won't be officially available on Ubuntu until the next release, so I figured I will just wait.

But, when I started watching videos reading reviews of gnome-shell I liked a lot of what I saw like the workspace switcher and the fact that you can switch between multiple windows of the same application using the keyboard in an easy way.

The thing that captured my attention the most, however, was the fact that gnome-shell is extensible. So I began searching for extensions to replicate certain features I like in Unity. In my search I stumbled upon this thread. And it asked a very important question; why canonical did not use gnome-shell extension to do whatever they wanted to do? I have yet to hear a good answer.

The Gnome-Shell extensions are based on GNOME 3, which by 11.04 (Natty) Canonical decided not to include (yet), because by the time the feature freeze happened for 11.04 GNOME 3 was not complete yet.

And Unity is just a shell which replaces the common GNOME 2 panel we see in our old Ubuntu installs, and Unity still depends on GNOME 2 (upon which will break if you try GNOME 3 on it).

[BigSilly]

This sounds interesting (http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/SweetTooth). What do you think, Gnome 3 fans?

[cbowman57]

The Gnome-Shell extensions are based on GNOME 3, which by 11.04 (Natty) Canonical decided not to include (yet), because by the time the feature freeze happened for 11.04 GNOME 3 was not complete yet.

From what I've seen, Unity wasn't either, so using this reasoning Ubuntu would have stayed with gnome 2.


And Unity is just a shell which replaces the common GNOME 2 panel we see in our old Ubuntu installs, and Unity still depends on GNOME 2 (upon which will break if you try GNOME 3 on it).

Simply not true, at least not now. Might have been that way early on but my 11.04 installation happily runs both.

[cbowman57]

This sounds interesting (http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/SweetTooth). What do you think, Gnome 3 fans?

It's going to be real nice when that is up & running.

[Bart_D]

I'm using Gnome 3 Shell on Fedora 15. I've looked at the extensions and the majority of them look like bloat.

I will NOT be installing any of them when I move to Ubuntu 11.10 Gnome 3 Shell.

Unity is fine as it is. Gnome 3 Shell is fine as it is. They are different and I can't see why a user would want one to work EXACTLY like the other. That's like wanting a Windows 7 look and feel in Ubuntu. To me, it's laughable.

It is well known, if you ask me, that power users get far too picky and cause developers' focus to shift to aesthetics as opposed to improving hardware/software compatibility. Honestly, it is such a shame.

[BigSilly]

I'm using Gnome 3 Shell on Fedora 15. I've looked at the extensions and the majority of them look like bloat.

I will NOT be installing any of them when I move to Ubuntu 11.10 Gnome 3 Shell.

Unity is fine as it is. Gnome 3 Shell is fine as it is. They are different and I can't see why a user would want one to work EXACTLY like the other. That's like wanting a Windows 7 look and feel in Ubuntu. To me, it's laughable.

It is well known, if you ask me, that power users get far too picky and cause developers' focus to shift to aesthetics as opposed to improving hardware/software compatibility. Honestly, it is such a shame.

I agree with a lot of this. I haven't felt the need to make Gnome 3 look like Gnome 2 with a batch of extensions. I like Gnome 3 as it is. It makes sense to me. The only changes I've made personally are adding the power-off button, and making the icons a bit smaller for the desktop. Large icons are fine on smaller screens, not on a desktop screen.

Other than that I see no point personally in adding anything else, unless someone comes up with intelligent Gnome 3 extensibility that goes beyond making it perform like Gnome 2. ;) I mean, it's great that you can, but it's pointless really in the long run. You'd be better off just using XFCE.

[wolfen69]

I haven't felt the need to make Gnome 3 look like Gnome 2 with a batch of extensions. I like Gnome 3 as it is.

This. Also, I have the ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome. Other people, not so much. ;)

No extensions here. I don't even have "file manager handle desktop" enabled. I like no icons on the desktop, for the first time. But more than anything, it is extremely stable. Which is more than you could say about kde4 when it first came out.
:lolflag:

[cbowman57]

Peace, Love, Acceptance.

I like having the options. :)

[BigSilly]

This. Also, I have the ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome. Other people, not so much. ;)

No extensions here. I don't even have "file manager handle desktop" enabled. I like no icons on the desktop, for the first time. But more than anything, it is extremely stable. Which is more than you could say about kde4 when it first came out.
:lolflag:

Me neither. I like the peace and calm of an icon-free desktop. :D It's all there with a hit of a key or a click on Activities. :) It's a very appealing look imho.

I have to add, that I don't really consider myself a technical user at all. I keep hearing about how the Gnome 3 desktop is not for technical users. Maybe that's why I took to it so quickly. It seems to me to be simple and concise and very easy to use. Plus, I have found it extremely bug-free. No problems at all with it. I think this is why I love it so much.

[Thewhistlingwind]

I keep hearing about how the Gnome 3 desktop is not for technical users.

Oh yes, but the gnome-panels totally are!;)

The KDE crowd needs to just admit that they actually use KDE, like it, and would really prefer gnome die.

[CraigPaleo]

Oh yes, but the gnome-panels totally are!;)

The KDE crowd needs to just admit that they actually use KDE, like it, and would really prefer gnome die.

I use both but mostly KDE. I wouldn't prefer that Gnome die. Choice is good but I also think fragmentation isn't such a good thing when the same things can be achieved by simply modifying the original project. Ubuntu had always done that with Gnome 2.

We're all so used to adapting our systems to ourselves rather than having to adapt to our systems, it's no wonder these extensions are already coming out.

Whether I'm using KDE or Gnome, I like one small panel with everything on it. Speaking for myself, If DockbarX and a real menu button could be placed on the top panel and then be movable, I'd be okay with Gnome Shell.

[dyltman]

I liked unity more then gnome-shell. To me unity felt like a kinda fresh desktop and I guess I would call it integrated experience with a lack of better words. However gnome-shell felt more solid in another sense. However I do have a complaint with it and that is that the window title on the top bar does the same thing as the window border, something like unity were is merges into the menu bar would be good for gnome shell.