Why?

[Slapdash]

WHy can say MEPIS Linux include Java, Flash Player, nVidia Drivers with the release and Ubuntu cant because of Licence issues?
Same with Vector Linux

Are they then doing this illegaly??

[Rancoras]

WHy can say MEPIS Linux include Java, Flash Player, nVidia Drivers with the release and Ubuntu cant because of Licence issues?
Same with Vector Linux

Are they then doing this illegaly??

Maybe Mepis pays the licensing fees?

[jeffsmith8]

MEPIS costs US$10. Some of that revenue is passed onto the license holders.

Ubuntu is free

[lordofkhemenu]

WHy can say MEPIS Linux include Java, Flash Player, nVidia Drivers with the release and Ubuntu cant because of Licence issues?
Same with Vector Linux

Are they then doing this illegaly??
The goal is to make Mepis 'work out of the box' as much as possible for a new Linux user (read: former Windows user).
A Windows user would expect their web browsing to include Flash and Java. Bet most of em don't even know what each of those is. My mother certainly doesn't. She just goes to sites, and this movie plays, that game plays, etc.
Mepis uses Blackdown java, which doesn't have that Sun sorry-you-need-to-download-the-binary-yourself License issue:


lordofkhemenu@1[lib]$ java -version
java version "1.4.2-01"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build Blackdown-1.4.2-01)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build Blackdown-1.4.2-01, mixed mode)

[nikopol]

it wouldn't be that difficult to write a script that would download install flash, Nvidia, realplayer and java automagically. In fact, I wrote one a while back when I was installing Ubuntu onto loads of computers and couldn't be bothered having to do all the post-install stuff over and over again... Would a script like that integrated into the Ubuntu install be illegal?

[MaZiNgA]

it wouldn't be that difficult to write a script that would download install flash, Nvidia, realplayer and java automagically. In fact, I wrote one a while back when I was installing Ubuntu onto loads of computers and couldn't be bothered having to do all the post-install stuff over and over again... Would a script like that integrated into the Ubuntu install be illegal?
I've thought time and time again of this and my question remains the same as yours...Last answers I got from daniels was that we would have "leagal issues"...But I still can't get it why we would...

[nikopol]

I've thought time and time again of this and my question remains the same as yours...Last answers I got from daniels was that we would have "leagal issues"...But I still can't get it why we would...
Nope I don't get it either - if it is an issue, could it not be possible to have a link on the desktop to a server (in Vatican City or somewhere like that ;) ) with the script that can be downloaded, then run?

That said do Ubuntu not include the non-free repositories for legal reasons or to remain fully non-free software free until the user chooses differently?

[poofyhairguy]

WHy can say MEPIS Linux include Java, Flash Player, nVidia Drivers with the release and Ubuntu cant because of Licence issues?
Same with Vector Linux

Are they then doing this illegaly??


Mepis is mostly the work one a single person. He has decieded that (to him) it is worth the risk to include these things out of the box because there is a very small chance that he could get in trouble for doing it.

Ubuntu's dev team has decided that even a tiny risk is too much. It would be nice if they would work out a way to easily install these things- especially on the live CD.

Maybe something like the Kilk method:

http://klik.atekon.de/

[Slapdash]

MEPIS costs US$10. Some of that revenue is passed onto the license holders.

Ubuntu is free

Thats just if you want the CD, Mepis is Completely free, Even the ProMepis beta's is free. So I dont think Warren ( THe Mepis Developer ) Pays any Royalties / Licence fees to anyone.

I like the idea of incl. a script to do this and understand that if there is only a tiny risk the Ubuntu developers wont incl. it ( wich I think is good ) but what about the people who run the Live CD or the potensial windows to linux converts that dont have a internet connection. They would automatically think. "It includes Office but not Java? How dumb."

Even the http://klik.atekon.de/ is a great "Value added" idea for Ubuntu.

But Vector Linux has those apps as well, so does a lot of oteher Free Distro's.
There must be some sort of way around this problem.
It will add to Ubuntu Linux's value a great deal I think. Its another "selling point".
I see a lot of reviewers of other distro's put that up as a Pro in a Pro Con type review.

Just on a side note.
I am currently using Mepis but want to move to Ubuntu ( I had it installed before and liked it a lot but a few things kept me from totally switching )
I have to say that the UBUNTU Community is LEAPS and BOUNDS better than the Mepis community. Although the Mepis - Lovers site is quite good as well.

[nocturn]

WHy can say MEPIS Linux include Java, Flash Player, nVidia Drivers with the release and Ubuntu cant because of Licence issues?
Same with Vector Linux

Are they then doing this illegaly??

I'm unsure about the redistribution of these packages. I know SuSE handles it by including downloads in YaST for them, but they are not on the CD release.

[nikopol]

I'm unsure about the redistribution of these packages. I know SuSE handles it by including downloads in YaST for them, but they are not on the CD release.

I didn't know that - so that's basically the script theory we've been touting about, isn't it? I assume Suse/Novell are well aware of the legalities surrounding all of that so if they can do it, maybe so can Ubuntu?

I suspect they don't offer downloads of mp3, dvdcss or other such stuff do they?

[Slapdash]

I can understand how if you pay for your Disto it can be included, as they probly pay some sort of royalties for the inclusion but there are Free ( non pay ) Distro's that also includes them.

Is it in Suse 9.1 personal edition?

[az]

it wouldn't be that difficult to write a script that would download install flash, Nvidia, realplayer and java automagically. In fact, I wrote one a while back when I was installing Ubuntu onto loads of computers and couldn't be bothered having to do all the post-install stuff over and over again... Would a script like that integrated into the Ubuntu install be illegal?

There is a flashplayer non-free package that does just that.

There are java deb packages in some repositories outside of Ubuntu (look at the ubuntu new user guide - jrfonseca.dyndns.org, or something)

The same goes for realplayer and the like.

[Slapdash]

Hmm... it still doesnt solve the question of Why do some Disto's have it and others cant because of license issues.

[rapala61]

Look at this thread (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=17582)

we know for a fact that java and some other CAN NOT be installed as default because of legal issues. We do need a script and as i stated in the above link... we only need the w32codecs pacakage and a simply script to download/configure mozplugger to work with totem-xine ,flash , nvidia ( depends on hardware ) , etc.

I think its time for the devs to accept that this is something that is needed for those people that are used to windows. Additionally... Linux should not be equal to More work, but for choice. There should be a choice for those who cant afford the time ( in the case of mozplugger configuration and others) or those who simply cant use anithing else than windows.

Mepis is allright , i liked the fact that i could see a .mov movie out of the box... and the idea of having a unified livecd-installationcd-rescue disk its pretty nice. To be honest i greatly prefer Ubuntu. Ubuntu is easy of use while still letting u have control over whats going on.

I dont remember where ... but i was reading on a website that Microsoft is targeting at wine users and are endorsing a policy of not letting them download any of their add-ons or updates if they dont use a orginal copy of windows. This is just an evidence that Big company eyes are on us and we dont want to get in problemas just for adding mp3 support out of the box.

But the script is still needed.. is legal , and would add a lot of more linux newbies in the Ubuntu gang which they are always welcome :grin: . besides adding a clean way to choose whether to install this things by hand or by a single script.

[Slapdash]

Rapala61 you are SPOT ON with what you just said.

I found this link JAVA Specific. http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-11/desktop_01.html
and it says this "bundling Java with an operating system is a significant expense"

*Going to Mepis Forums to ask how they ship Java, Mp3, Flash with Mepis *

[neighborlee]

Rapala61 you are SPOT ON with what you just said.

I found this link JAVA Specific. http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-11/desktop_01.html
and it says this "bundling Java with an operating system is a significant expense"

*Going to Mepis Forums to ask how they ship Java, Mp3, Flash with Mepis *
--------------------
jdodson post:
============
if users are looking for something that barks, walks and works like windows, why switch?
============

You are kidding I hope... ? ( no offense my friend but gosh gee willickers )

Do we as the linux community REALLY BELIEVE that rhetoric?

I use linux 'because' it is secure, reliable, 'FREE' ( yes ,,I know ) and I LOVE the freedom and joy of developing in that environement but sometimes I swear I'm so tired of the anal old tired attitude I see sometimes. If linux is 'ever' to succede in gaining ANY amount of marketshare then we need EASY, READY , OUT OF THE BOX useability ( just like our arch nemesis is doing ) including what M$ users are used to. ( I know in windows java/flash isn't preinstalled but its also not TRICKY to 'install' either ;-)

We either decide to become part of the future or old fashioned furniture of the past and I prefer the former. ( I hope my decision to use ubuntu was not ill-informed )

I use ubuntu because I like the philosophy of 'always free and free software IS good' etc.etc., but I refuse to be part of backwards thinking and I hope this is resolved quickly. ( yesterday would be good )

cheers
nl
-----

[KiwiNZ]

We already have a thread thrashng this out

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=17582

I will close this one

Cheers