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dniMretsaM
May 11th, 2011, 07:23 PM
So what should we call our computers that run Linux? I don't really like calling them PCs since that implies Windows (which is something I don't want to do). I was thinking LB for Linux box. Or maybe LT in honor of Linus Torvalds. What do you guys think?

sffvba[e0rt
May 11th, 2011, 07:26 PM
Juliet:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) (http://www.enotes.com/romeo-text/act-ii-scene-ii#rom-2-2-45)


404

Throne777
May 11th, 2011, 07:27 PM
So what should we call our computers that run Linux? I don't really like calling them PCs since that implies Windows (which is something I don't want to do). I was thinking LB for Linux box. Or maybe LT in honor of Linus Torvalds. What do you guys think?

PC. I couldn't care less if people might infer that I run Windows; I'm not running Windows because it's a terrible OS, not because I want to earn kudos from people for running Linux.

fuduntu
May 11th, 2011, 07:29 PM
So what should we call our computers that run Linux?

Rare.




















Just kidding. ;)

alaukikyo
May 11th, 2011, 07:31 PM
So what should we call our computers that run Linux? I don't really like calling them PCs since that implies Windows (which is something I don't want to do). I was thinking LB for Linux box. Or maybe LT in honor of Linus Torvalds. What do you guys think?

ububox .

Spice Weasel
May 11th, 2011, 07:31 PM
PC.

Box has also become a popular term.

krapp
May 11th, 2011, 07:37 PM
Computer.

aguafina
May 11th, 2011, 07:39 PM
1 PerCent = 1PC

Yownanymous
May 11th, 2011, 07:43 PM
http://seastonesystems.com/images/stationery/large/casio%20calculator.jpg
By definition, this is technically a "PC".

dniMretsaM
May 11th, 2011, 07:45 PM
http://seastonesystems.com/images/stationery/large/casio%20calculator.jpg
By definition, this is technically a "PC".

Screw definitions! Lol.

el_koraco
May 11th, 2011, 07:47 PM
computer.

+1

wojox
May 11th, 2011, 07:47 PM
Since it runs on PC's and Mac's we should call them Pmac's

fuduntu
May 11th, 2011, 07:48 PM
ooh I have an idea, why not call it.

















wait for it



















almost there!





















LINUX BOX


):P

dniMretsaM
May 11th, 2011, 07:49 PM
Since it runs on PC's and Mac's we should call them Pmac's

I like it...

"What kind of computer do you own?"
"A PMac."
"What did you just call me?!?"

dniMretsaM
May 11th, 2011, 07:51 PM
LINUX BOX

Shorten it to LB.

_outlawed_
May 11th, 2011, 07:52 PM
PC = Personal Computer.

Therefore:

GNU/Linux = PC
Windows = PC
Mac = PC

Paqman
May 11th, 2011, 07:56 PM
GNU/Linux = PC
Windows = PC
Mac = PC

This. Macs are PCs these days.

Yownanymous
May 11th, 2011, 07:58 PM
This. Macs are PCs these days.

They always have been. They were originally marketed as such, back in the old days. It's just nowadays elitist morons think that because they pay 3 times as much for the same hardware it makes them superior.

dniMretsaM
May 11th, 2011, 08:04 PM
Whether Macs are PCs or not, that's not what they're called.

fuduntu
May 11th, 2011, 08:07 PM
Shorten it to LB.

Le'Box

arsenic23
May 11th, 2011, 08:10 PM
Whether Macs are PCs or not, that's not what they're called.

By who? I call them that. Everyone else at work calls them that.

A PC is a personal computer, anything that you can program and own as an individual. At some point in time PC started to mean a computer that operates under x86 (IBM compatible - haha). I refuse to let this newer generation change it to anything running Windows. That's stupid.

dniMretsaM
May 11th, 2011, 08:19 PM
By who? I call them that. Everyone else at work calls them that.

A PC is a personal computer, anything that you can program and own as an individual. At some point in time PC started to mean a computer that operates under x86 (IBM compatible - haha). I refuse to let this newer generation change it to anything running Windows. That's stupid.

I call a Mac OS computer a Mac and a Windows computer a PC. Always have. And I've never heard anyone else say PC referring to a Mac. What about smart phones and tablets? I don't (and don't know anybody who does) call them PCs. I've never heard the term "PC" (referring to a Mac) on a Mac commercial either. Just Windows.

el_koraco
May 11th, 2011, 08:21 PM
I call a Mac OS computer a Mac and a Windows computer a PC. Always have. And I've never heard anyone else say PC referring to a Mac. What about smart phones and tablets? I don't (and don't know anybody who does) call them PCs. I've never heard the term "PC" (referring to a Mac) on a Mac commercial either. Just Windows.

it's an advertising thing. sets the macs apart from the 'regular' computers.

KiwiNZ
May 11th, 2011, 08:22 PM
I call my iMac a PC, I quite often call my Windows and Linux machines @#$$#^ and **&%&

fuduntu
May 11th, 2011, 08:23 PM
it's an advertising thing. sets the macs apart from the 'regular' computers.

We have that too, it's called "Tux".

PC
Mac
Tux

el_koraco
May 11th, 2011, 08:25 PM
We have that too, it's called "Tux".

PC
Mac
Tux

a PTux?

fuduntu
May 11th, 2011, 08:27 PM
a PTux?

PT = Personal Tux

el_koraco
May 11th, 2011, 08:27 PM
Your Own Personal Tux!

rg4w
May 11th, 2011, 08:28 PM
I call a Mac OS computer a Mac and a Windows computer a PC. Always have.
This is a symptom of Bug #1:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1

ST3ALTHPSYCH0
May 11th, 2011, 08:30 PM
Linux PC=COHFS
(Conglomerate Of Half Finished Software)

:D

fuduntu
May 11th, 2011, 08:33 PM
I call my iMac a PC, I quite often call my Windows and Linux machines @#$$#^ and **&%&

All computers are varying degrees of garbage salads. Some contain more garbage and others contain more salad.

It's a toss up really.

HAH!

Buntumatic
May 11th, 2011, 08:37 PM
This reminds me my support call to Bank of Am.
I: Hello, this and this are not working on your site.
They: OK, is it a PC?
I: Yes.
T: OK, open Internet Explorer and ...
I: IE is not available for my platform.
T !?
You can imagine the rest ... :popcorn:

Canis familiaris
May 11th, 2011, 08:37 PM
I call it Simba.

Anyway PC != Windows, it's the hardware, nothing to do with OS. So I simply call it "My PC". I also consider Macs as a PC.

Buntumatic
May 11th, 2011, 08:41 PM
PPC used to be the other one, RISC arch as opposed to PC - Intel x86.

3Miro
May 11th, 2011, 08:43 PM
Hi I am a Mac.
And I am a PC.
And I running a real OS.

PC refers to hardware and it is all the same. It is Mac, Windows and Linux running on a PC.

arsenic23
May 11th, 2011, 08:47 PM
I call a Mac OS computer a Mac and a Windows computer a PC. Always have. And I've never heard anyone else say PC referring to a Mac. What about smart phones and tablets? I don't (and don't know anybody who does) call them PCs. I've never heard the term "PC" (referring to a Mac) on a Mac commercial either. Just Windows.

Tons of old Apple ads called their computers 'PCs', most of the time they just said 'Personal Computer' though. Also back when they switched from Motorola chips to PowerPC chips everyone called the Power Macs 'Power PCs', partially after the processors. At some point Apple decided to sell around the idea that their Power PC chips where Superior to x86 chips from Intel and AMD and so began to distance themselves from the term PC. Their marketers tried really hard to stress the difference between x86 and PPC, which is where the 'Macs are better for artists' came from; photoshop benchmarked on those chips better at the time.

It's all completely the same stuff now though. No physical differences.

As far as I'm concerned if you can program for your cellphone and plug peripherals into it, then yes, it would be a PC too.

Macskeeball
May 11th, 2011, 09:04 PM
I wonder how the ARM version of Windows 8 will play into this sort of discussion.

forrestcupp
May 11th, 2011, 09:06 PM
Linux = Redheaded Step Child


PC = Personal Computer.

Therefore:

GNU/Linux = PC
Windows = PC
Mac = PC
Wrong. PC is an actual name, not just an abbreviation.

Dell computers are used in businesses around the world. Therefore, you could call Dell computers international business machines. But Dells are definitely not IBMs. ;)

samalex
May 11th, 2011, 09:09 PM
It's kinda like the opposite of Kleenex, BandAid, Xerox, etc that become used as generic terms. PC is Personal Computer (as opposed to a MiniComputer, Mainframe computer, etc) regardless of what OS it runs, but when IBM branded their PC as IBM PC the name stuck for all X86 based systems. Back in the day all X86 systems were marketed as PC's regardless of whether they ran MS-DOS, C/PM, Xenix, etc, but in the end it basically became PPC systems running the Apple OS and PC systems running the Windows operating system.

I like the more granular term PC for all Personal Computers, though I do say Linux Box for my PC that runs Linux, but it really depends on what circle you run and how tech oriented a crowd is on which term is used.

aysiu
May 11th, 2011, 09:15 PM
I take a proactive approach. If someone refers to something as a "PC" I try to clarify with them "Do you mean a Windows PC?"

handy
May 11th, 2011, 09:17 PM
Potentially, Android, to the masses, who rarely have a clue, let alone a care about what they are using anyway.

Apart from that those that don't know Linux speak, consider Linux to be geeksville. Mostly, people don't even know Linux exists or if they do they don't know what it is.

Hell, they don't even know that Windows is an operating system or just what an operating system is!

forrestcupp
May 11th, 2011, 09:34 PM
Why do Linux users care so much about having the PC name? Why does it matter? Why do you even want your computer to be known as a PC, when the world associates PCs with Windows?

Personally, I just call them all "computers" whether they run MacOS, Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris, Haiku, MS-DOS, or whatever other operating system you can think of.

trystan830
May 11th, 2011, 09:40 PM
i call it my Linux computer or my Linux box. =)

lykwydchykyn
May 11th, 2011, 09:49 PM
Bill

Or George.

Anything but SUE! I still hate that name!



Or you could call it "mainframe". If people insist on referring to operating systems according to the hardware platform they ran on in the 1980's, most Unix-like OS's ran on mainframes or minis back then. So go with it.

KiwiNZ
May 11th, 2011, 09:50 PM
It's a PC , it's a Mac , it's plastic clicky thing it's @#$$# computer call what you will does it really matter?
I am typing this whilst laying in a bed in an Oncology Department , trust me there is bigger things to get ones panties in a twist over.

Copper Bezel
May 11th, 2011, 09:59 PM
I call a Mac OS computer a Mac and a Windows computer a PC. Always have. And I've never heard anyone else say PC referring to a Mac. What about smart phones and tablets? I don't (and don't know anybody who does) call them PCs. I've never heard the term "PC" (referring to a Mac) on a Mac commercial either. Just Windows.
True until recently. As noted, it was a marketing thing, and it spawned the Mac vs. PC ads, but the last round of Macbooks were launched as PCs to distinguish from iPad (and the launch event was subtitled "Back to the PC," which is fairly ironic given prior marketing.)

I say "Linux box", although it rarely comes up. Fairly odd to refer to a netbook as a "box", too, incidentally.

handy
May 11th, 2011, 10:13 PM
Mine are called Box.1. (iMac) predominantly used box. Box.2. homebuilt AMD machine; drive drawers runs whatever (usually Arch (like the iMac). & the IPCop box, firewall/router. There is a spare IPCop box, setup, ready to go in-case of failure, but it really doesn't have a name. Oh. The PS3 is called just that.

It really wouldn't matter what system was in Box.1. or Box.2. their names wouldn't change.

rg4w
May 11th, 2011, 10:17 PM
Wrong. PC is an actual name, not just an abbreviation.At the USPTO database the only "PC" marks I could find were for circuit boards and jewelry, both registering only the graphic logotype and neither a computer vendor. Did I miss one?

el_koraco
May 11th, 2011, 10:17 PM
There is a spare IPCop box, setup, ready to go in-case of failure, but it really doesn't have a name.

You should really give it one, it is probably feeling neglected. IPCop box2 springs to mind...

handy
May 11th, 2011, 10:28 PM
You should really give it one, it is probably feeling neglected. IPCop box2 springs to mind...

It has a history;- I built if for my dear departed dad, in the very early days of the Athlon chips. Fortunately it has a socketed Athlon 700Mhz CPU in it.

It has more sentimental meaning & history (shared & otherwise) to it than any other machine I have ever owned.

I kind of feel like I would be limiting it if I stuck a name on it. Though it can be called IPCop box.2. To me it is a great deal more. :)

Retlol
May 11th, 2011, 10:31 PM
pc

hhh
May 11th, 2011, 10:39 PM
Wrong. PC is an actual name, not just an abbreviation.
Zuh? Although already in use as an abbreviation for personal computer, it became widely used as part of an abbreviation for International Business Machines Personal Computer. Gradually PC came to mean IBM clones, and recently to mean a computer based on an Intel-compatible microprocessor.

Macskeeball
May 11th, 2011, 10:42 PM
True until recently. As noted, it was a marketing thing, and it spawned the Mac vs. PC ads, but the last round of Macbooks were launched as PCs to distinguish from iPad (and the launch event was subtitled "Back to the PC," which is fairly ironic given prior marketing.)

I say "Linux box", although it rarely comes up. Fairly odd to refer to a netbook as a "box", too, incidentally.

No. If you're referring to the event where Lion was unveiled, that event was called "Back to the Mac."

el_koraco
May 11th, 2011, 10:46 PM
I Though it can be called IPCop box.2. To me it is a great deal more. :)

Box Zero then!

el_koraco
May 11th, 2011, 10:47 PM
No. If you're referring to the event where Lion was unveiled, that event was called "Back to the Mac."

He's referring to when they made the switch to Intel processors a few years back.

Sashin
May 11th, 2011, 10:53 PM
Well... if you think about it. When people talk about Macs and PCs they talk about physical hardware.

So if you are running linux on a PC, it's called a PC and if you are running linux on a mac, its called a mac.

Copper Bezel
May 11th, 2011, 11:12 PM
Thanks for the correction. I didn't remember the context. "PC" was used in the event, however, and by Jobs in reference to the MacBooks.


He's referring to when they made the switch to Intel processors a few years back.
Actually, I was just transposing bits. At that time, when they initially switched to Intel, they were still marketing themselves as something other than PCs. It's only recently that they seem to have given up on that.

rich52x
May 11th, 2011, 11:31 PM
How about we call it...

'Teh super awesome personal computer that's not a PC because that implies Windows but is a computer that is nonetheless personal but remember not to call it a PC'?

:guitar:

RiceMonster
May 11th, 2011, 11:34 PM
They always have been. They were originally marketed as such, back in the old days. It's just nowadays elitist morons think that because they pay 3 times as much for the same hardware it makes them superior.

Then you have those who think they're superior because they DON'T use them.

Old_Grey_Wolf
May 11th, 2011, 11:44 PM
I work in IT. We have offices in several countries. Everyone seems to understand the same terminology when using English. The system administrators, integrators, technicians, etc., call them Linux boxes, Windows boxes, and Macs. The reason Macs are called Macs is because you by the software and hardware as a unit. If OS X ran on any hardware, they would be called OS X boxes.

CraigPaleo
May 12th, 2011, 01:24 AM
I've always referred to my computers as "my computer" or "my machine" unless the OS was relevant to the conversation. I'm not sure if any of my computers were politically correct.

handy
May 12th, 2011, 02:12 AM
Box Zero then!

Zero, doesn't fit well with my spiritual understanding. :KS

So it will remain dad's old box that has been setup to take over a new job when need be. :)

forrestcupp
May 12th, 2011, 02:31 AM
Zuh? Although already in use as an abbreviation for personal computer, it became widely used as part of an abbreviation for International Business Machines Personal Computer. Gradually PC came to mean IBM clones, and recently to mean a computer based on an Intel-compatible microprocessor.

And one thing IBM PCs were known for was running Microsoft's OS. IBM's PC DOS was a rebranding of MS-DOS. From 1982 on, PCs ran Microsoft's latest OS. Some clones ran OS2 Warp, but we all know how that turned out.

Like it or not, PCs have almost always been coupled with a Microsoft OS.

Bart_D
May 12th, 2011, 02:52 AM
OpenBox.


Zero, doesn't fit well with my spiritual understanding.

If a name has ZERO in it, then NOBODY will buy it!

MasterNetra
May 12th, 2011, 03:08 AM
PC = Personal Computer.

Therefore:

GNU/Linux = PC
Windows = PC
Mac = PC

+1

OP's equation is improper. Its
PC = OS + Hardware, where OS = Windows/Mac/Linux

YuiDaoren
May 12th, 2011, 03:14 AM
I say we circumvent the issue, and simply point and grunt.

forrestcupp
May 12th, 2011, 12:14 PM
If a name has ZERO in it, then NOBODY will buy it!

How about Pepsi Zero? People love it.

dniMretsaM
May 12th, 2011, 04:45 PM
+1

OP's equation is improper. Its
PC = OS + Hardware, where OS = Windows/Mac/Linux

Yes, that's what they are, but that's not what they are thought of as by the 'normal' population. To the normal population, a PC is Windows computer. Whether that's right or wrong, that's just how it is. Deal with it. In the Windows 7 commercials, I highly doubt that "I'm a PC, and Windows 7 was my idea." meant "I use Mac OS, but I'm still a PC and Windows 7 was still my idea."


How about Pepsi Zero? People love it.

Do you mean Coke Zero? The Pepsi version is Pepsi Max.

HoKaze
May 12th, 2011, 05:55 PM
It's already been mentioned a few times but I'd prefer it if a PC was called a PC regardless of the OS. But if we must split it off like this then I vote "Linux Box" or some variant of that.

forrestcupp
May 12th, 2011, 06:40 PM
How many people actually even call it a PC?




Do you mean Coke Zero? The Pepsi version is Pepsi Max.

Yeah, that's the one. I knew one of them had Zero in their name.

Bandit
May 12th, 2011, 07:31 PM
So what should we call our computers that run Linux? I don't really like calling them PCs since that implies Windows (which is something I don't want to do). I was thinking LB for Linux box. Or maybe LT in honor of Linus Torvalds. What do you guys think?


I normally call mine My Computer, or when referring to type a Linux System. Sometimes even Linux Box.

Copper Bezel
May 12th, 2011, 08:06 PM
Yeah, I mean, if I'm just referring to the computer qua computer, I'm more likely to say "my netbook" or, by hostname, "Sophie." Sometimes, though, it's useful to be able to distinguish "an OSX PC," "a Windows PC," and "a Linux PC" in some relatively shorthand way.

It's too bad it takes three syllables to say, though. PC and Mac roll off the tongue more readily than Linux box.

dniMretsaM
May 12th, 2011, 08:20 PM
It's too bad it takes three syllables to say, though. PC and Mac roll off the tongue more readily than Linux box.

That's why I prefer using LB instead of Linux box.

Macskeeball
May 12th, 2011, 08:42 PM
That's why I prefer using LB instead of Linux box.

But then no one will know what you're talking about so you'll have to use additional syllables to explain. It seems easier to just use the three syllables, though may still have to explain what Linux is to people who've never heard of it. But in that case you'd also have to do that when explaining LB.

PCLinuxGuy
May 12th, 2011, 08:58 PM
I normally call mine My Computer, or when referring to type a Linux System. Sometimes even Linux Box.

me too. I'd think most do. such as..

Them: What's that you're on?
Me: My computer.

That's all they need to know right off the bat. If they are curious to the OS, then I could say: "It's my Windows Machine", or "My Mac", or "My Linux machine" the list goes on. So in theory what it really is system wise should be saved for the inquiring minds that have enough intellect to ask, rather than broadcast to the world without provocation :) So, I find your answer The Best one out of all the ones added to this topic.:KS:popcorn::KS

Macskeeball
May 12th, 2011, 09:06 PM
Them: What's that you're on?
Me: My computer.

Unless you're in remote or developing part the world, they've most likely seen a computer before, so they'd already know that.

If someone asked you what you were driving, would you say "an automobile"?

PCLinuxGuy
May 12th, 2011, 09:54 PM
Unless you're in remote or developing part the world, they've most likely seen a computer before, so they'd already know that.

If someone asked you what you were driving, would you say "an automobile"?

If they were 'interested' and actually expressed such interest then I'd tell them specifics, it doens't mean that the person (or me) isn't proud to run or use something specific, but some, not all, that trumpet such things tend to seem like they are fanboyish or obnoxious. is that always the case? no. but I mean come on.. regardless of OS/distro it's still a computer at the end of the day/all is said and done. As for the car question you asked. most people into cars would remark about the type of engine, much like those into computers do about the OS.

bouncingwilf
May 12th, 2011, 09:59 PM
shinyboxythinginthecornerwithwiresstickingout.


Bouncingwilf

Antarctica32
May 12th, 2011, 10:12 PM
http://seastonesystems.com/images/stationery/large/casio%20calculator.jpg
By definition, this is technically a "PC".

In French the word for computer is the same as for calculator. ordinature Although thw word calculatrice is now becoming popular for calculator to avoid confusion. IMOHO, we should call them GNU/Linuxs or Linuxs for short.

For example: "Yo bra, wanna c0me ova and check 0ut my new Linux?"

Or: "sup dude, did ya buy that Linux yet?"

Or to be more specific: "My Ubuntu has 4GBs of RAM."

I like the idea of calling a computer by what OS it has on it. The only problem is, often people change their OSs (well at least we hackers do). When GNU/Linux becomes incredibly popular (something many think has already happened) or at least when it becomes recognized by ordinary non-hacker people as the best, people will stop calling it a "pc". I think the only reason I like to be specific and say "my Lucid" or "my open suse" is to avoid confusion.

dniMretsaM
May 12th, 2011, 10:17 PM
I like the idea of calling a computer by what OS it has on it. The only problem is, often people change their OSs (well at least we hackers do). When GNU/Linux becomes incredibly popular (something many think has already happened) or at least when it becomes recognized by ordinary non-hacker people as the best, people will stop calling it a "pc". I think the only reason I like to be specific and say "my Lucid" or "my open suse" is to avoid confusion.

That's a good idea. So instead of a Mac or a PC, it would be a Snow Leopard or a Vista. I like it.

Copper Bezel
May 12th, 2011, 10:30 PM
I don't get that. The idea is to have a term that refers to the machine's primary OS, yes, but just calling it by the name of the OS just sounds like sloppy usage and could cause yet another layer of confusion.


But then no one will know what you're talking about so you'll have to use additional syllables to explain. It seems easier to just use the three syllables, though may still have to explain what Linux is to people who've never heard of it. But in that case you'd also have to do that when explaining LB.

Aha - got it. Just say 'nix box, as in *nix box, and you have a reasonable chance of being understood by anyone who's at least clear on the principle, and it includes BSD. (And technically Mac, but I think usage would clarify, there.)

It occurs to me that a Hackintosh would never be referred to casually as a "Mac," so the hardware really has a bearing on that one. Yet a Mac with Windows installed would also not be a Mac. Curious.

lisati
May 12th, 2011, 10:35 PM
403 Discussion forbidden: PC <> Windows, it means "politically correct" Personal Computer

:D

Macskeeball
May 12th, 2011, 10:41 PM
Yet a Mac with Windows installed would also not be a Mac. Curious.

As a Mac user myself, I would call it a Mac running Windows. BTW, my Mac has OS X, Windows 7, and Ubuntu installed.

So how about these:

Windows PC, Linux PC, Mac, Mac running Windows, Mac running Linux, etc. All of which meet the criteria of personal computer. Most of the time, though, I just say "my laptop" or "my computer."

Copper Bezel
May 12th, 2011, 10:46 PM
Or even Windows PC, Linux PC, OSX PC, Windows Mac, Linux Mac, OSX Mac. No, that makes sense, certainly. It's just odd that Mac gets its own special name for the hardware, moreso that "PC" is a catchall for everything else, and still moreso that "PC" implies Windows, especially when less aware Mac users refer to my machine as a "PC" as if that meant the same thing as "Windows PC" when I'm running Ubuntu on a machine designed for Xandros.

Macskeeball
May 13th, 2011, 12:04 AM
Or even Windows PC, Linux PC, OSX PC, Windows Mac, Linux Mac, OSX Mac. No, that makes sense, certainly.
"Windows Mac" and "Linux Mac" would probably confuse people. I'd say the Mac brand is too strongly associated with Mac OS for that to work, and it's often used to contrast with Windows. Therefore, "Mac running Windows" and "Mac running Linux" seem to me to be more easily understood.


It's just odd that Mac gets its own special name for the hardware, moreso that "PC" is a catchall for everything else
Up until a few years ago, Macs were PowerPC-based while all Windows and most Linux machines were x86-based. Windows couldn't run on a PowerPC Macintosh, and Mac OS couldn't run on x86 machines. Linux was able to run on both, but x86 was and is its primary platform. Of all the non-Microsoft OSes, Mac OS has the most mindshare and desktop marketshare.

"Available for PC and Mac" has been used in a lot of advertising copy for software/peripherals to indicate compatibility with Windows and Mac OS. Advertising is, unfortunately, often a powerful form of mass media.


...and still moreso that "PC" implies Windows
Not only that, but the word "computer" generally implies Windows. According to StatCounter (http://gs.statcounter.com), Vista has the least desktop marketshare of the three versions of Windows available today. By itself, it has more desktop marketshare than all the non-Windows OSes combined. Windows is so dominant that it can be safely assumed unless otherwise specified. As the norm, it does not need a differentiating descriptor. Linux is tiny town in terms of marketshare, and in terms of mindshare there are many who either know almost nothing about it ("I, uh, heard it's hard") or have never heard of it at all. It lacks the mindshare needed for large numbers of people to differentiate it, because to differentiate something you have to know it exists.

I realize I may have been stating the obvious, but when you really think about these things the naming situation we're in today is not really all that weird. It boils down to history, marketing, and mindshare. It's not completely rational, but it is understandable.

el_koraco
May 13th, 2011, 12:21 AM
It occurs to me that a Hackintosh would never be referred to casually as a "Mac,"

how bout a hackintosh dual booting with linux?

Buntumatic
May 13th, 2011, 12:30 AM
... The reason Macs are called Macs is because you by the software and hardware as a unit. If OS X ran on any hardware, they would be called OS X boxes.
Hmmm ... try to buy a laptop without Windows here in the US, you'll get the impression all laptops are made by Microsoft because they come as "unit". :P

Old_Grey_Wolf
May 13th, 2011, 06:35 PM
Hmmm ... try to buy a laptop without Windows here in the US, you'll get the impression all laptops are made by Microsoft because they come as "unit". :P

I can still install Linux on it. I can't install OS X on it without a hack.

As I said, I work in IT. We buy dual quad core servers with no OS installed. We usually install a hypervisor on them, then install several operating systems on them. They may have both Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Windows Server running on them simultaneously.

rjbl
May 13th, 2011, 06:53 PM
So what should we call our computers that run Linux? I don't really like calling them PCs since that implies Windows (which is something I don't want to do). I was thinking LB for Linux box. Or maybe LT in honor of Linus Torvalds. What do you guys think?

Err .... no. PC = the IBM PC architecture circa 1980. Microsoft have produced OS's for same since c1982. Some good, some bad, some indifferent. Lotsafolks have produced OS's for the PC architecture - including, of course, the distinguished community which have produced GNU/Linux.

No, Bill Gates did not invent the PC; nor has his company ever made a simple one of the things. Don't believe everything you see in the commercial breaks you see on TV

rjbl

rjbl
May 13th, 2011, 07:02 PM
So what should we call our computers that run Linux? I don't really like calling them PCs since that implies Windows (which is something I don't want to do). I was thinking LB for Linux box. Or maybe LT in honor of Linus Torvalds. What do you guys think?

Now to answer the examination question.

Personally, I refer to any PC running any GNU/Linux as a 'Linux box' - that being a proper sub-set of Unix boxes. Any PC running any flavour of MS OS can be called a Windows box - as in 'That bloody Windows box is playing up again' or 'Help! my Windows box is frozen again'

:P

rjbl

forrestcupp
May 13th, 2011, 07:03 PM
Err .... no. PC = the IBM PC architecture circa 1980. Microsoft have produced OS's for same since c1982. Some good, some bad, some indifferent. Lotsafolks have produced OS's for the PC architecture - including, of course, the distinguished community which have produced GNU/Linux.

No, Bill Gates did not invent the PC; nor has his company ever made a simple one of the things. Don't believe everything you see in the commercial breaks you see on TV

rjbl

With that in mind, only IBM computers should be called PCs no matter what OS they are running. Dells, Acers, HPs, etc., shouldn't be called PCs at all.

Megaptera
May 13th, 2011, 07:21 PM
i say we circumvent the issue, and simply point and grunt.

+ 1

lykwydchykyn
May 13th, 2011, 10:02 PM
With that in mind, only IBM computers should be called PCs no matter what OS they are running. Dells, Acers, HPs, etc., shouldn't be called PCs at all.

Well, decades ago they would have been called "PC Clones" which is where the name came from; but it's obvious both "PC" and "Mac" are sloppy, imprecise terms that should have been dropped somewhere in the throes of the 1990's.

Even "Mac" refers to a product line that has been through (at least?) three hardware platforms and two operating systems.

Antarctica32
May 14th, 2011, 04:11 PM
That's a good idea. So instead of a Mac or a PC, it would be a Snow Leopard or a Vista. I like it.

only problem is with duel booting. And having several computers with the same OS. And having a computer with no OS, or one you change a lot. I call all my computers by there OS as of right now or just call them Box, or call them by the name I give them. The thing is all those problems i listed above, only hackers have them. Most people now and in the future will not have more than 1 computer, will not duel boot, and will not change there OS at all. So maybe my idea will catch on after all.

dniMretsaM
May 14th, 2011, 05:35 PM
only problem is with duel booting. And having several computers with the same OS. And having a computer with no OS, or one you change a lot. I call all my computers by there OS as of right now or just call them Box, or call them by the name I give them. The thing is all those problems i listed above, only hackers have them. Most people now and in the future will not have more than 1 computer, will not duel boot, and will not change there OS at all. So maybe my idea will catch on after all.

It could be a Snow Vista. Lol.

Antarctica32
May 14th, 2011, 05:59 PM
It could be a Snow Vista. Lol.

Yeh snow vista: the worst of both worlds

rjbl
May 14th, 2011, 06:20 PM
With that in mind, only IBM computers should be called PCs no matter what OS they are running. Dells, Acers, HPs, etc., shouldn't be called PCs at all.

Hmmm ... not really. "PC" refers to the open microcomputer architecture produced by IBM in the late '70's / early eighties which computer builders were invited to implement to the effect we all know. It replaced the multitude of PETS, TRS-80's; ZX81's etc that we so warmly remember from our salad days when life was green etc.

From memory, I don't think that the early Apple Computers were compliant with the IBM architectural spec - but, if I am wrong someone here is bound to tell me so. Apple's contribution to the gaiety of nations was to produce the first working implementation of the Rank-Xerox(SPARC) research into graphical operating environments - the memorable WIMP graphical desktop running on the Mackintosh.

Bill Gates Great Contribution was in flogging IBM MS-DOS for the IBM - PC (it was cheaper than the DOS written by IBM's elephantine team of geeks). I recall that Microsoft also produced a cut-down, broken version of UNIX for the early IBM PC. Come to think of it they seem still to be specialising in producing broken UNICES - don't they?

rjbl

forrestcupp
May 14th, 2011, 08:42 PM
Hmmm ... not really. "PC" refers to the open microcomputer architecture produced by IBM in the late '70's / early eighties which computer builders were invited to implement to the effect we all know.

In the early 80's, PC referred to IBM specific computers because that was their name. Their actual name was IBM PC, IBM PC Jr., etc. The clones were unofficially called PCs later.

When clones became as popular as IBMs and were 100% compatible, I never used to call them PCs. I always called them by whatever processor they had: 286, 386, etc. Before the 286, they weren't really 100% compatible with IBMs.

Linux_junkie
May 14th, 2011, 08:53 PM
A few years back when I first started to get in to Linux a lot of users back then called pc's 'nix boxes' as Linux is based on Unix.

Antarctica32
May 15th, 2011, 04:05 PM
In the early 80's, PC referred to IBM specific computers because that was their name. Their actual name was IBM PC, IBM PC Jr., etc. The clones were unofficially called PCs later.

When clones became as popular as IBMs and were 100% compatible, I never used to call them PCs. I always called them by whatever processor they had: 286, 386, etc. Before the 286, they weren't really 100% compatible with IBMs.

I agree with forrestcupp. technically only IBMs are PCs. But it doesn't really matter, if you say PC in a Dell store they'll know what you mean. But if you say PC in an Apple store, they'll eat you alive. The IBM thinkpad I'm using right now be considered a PC if one follows this rule, but the Dell Dimension in the other room would just be a Dell. The thing is, soon PC will only be a hardware term so this argument is vary valid. As more and more people realize that Linux is better than windows or OSX, they will install it on their Macs, or PCs. Would he computer that once had vista on it but now has Lucid be a PC or a Linux? That is the real question here.

debd
May 15th, 2011, 04:17 PM
just wanted to share this link :
http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index.php?p=en/news/magazine

the8thstar
May 15th, 2011, 04:26 PM
"You have a PC. I have a Mac."

That's a statement I often heard by those who own Apple computers. I believe the automatic association that a Mac is not a PC comes from years of constant marketing from Apple Inc. Apple is full of it.

In fact the components are the same, apart from the EFI bundle. The true difference is the OS.

Anyway, I don't think it's a problem if I say "I run Linux on my PC." Because it's true and because it makes sense. I am not ashamed of my choice.

Using a different name doesn't mean anything. Ubuntu is not Apple Inc. If we 'enclose' Linux OS and a computer under a new name, we are going to set ourselves apart from other PC users. I thought the intention was Linux for human beings after all...

Onoku
May 15th, 2011, 04:34 PM
Potentially, Android, to the masses, who rarely have a clue, let alone a care about what they are using anyway.

Apart from that those that don't know Linux speak, consider Linux to be geeksville. Mostly, people don't even know Linux exists or if they do they don't know what it is.

Hell, they don't even know that Windows is an operating system or just what an operating system is!

Hell, the masses have no idea that Android is a Linux OS. ](*,)

red_Marvin
May 15th, 2011, 04:57 PM
If they compute they are computers, and I call them as such.
On my feet I wear shoes, not Nikes or Reeboks.

If there are multiple computers in the same place and I need to be more precise brand name or host name can be used.

rjbl
May 15th, 2011, 05:38 PM
In the early 80's, PC referred to IBM specific computers because that was their name. Their actual name was IBM PC, IBM PC Jr., etc. The clones were unofficially called PCs later.

When clones became as popular as IBMs and were 100% compatible, I never used to call them PCs. I always called them by whatever processor they had: 286, 386, etc. Before the 286, they weren't really 100% compatible with IBMs.

Hi there forrest

Thanks for the memories. I have clear memories, myself, of buying Unysis box back in '86. It was actually labelled 'PC AT', if I recall correctly. It ran MS-DOS (but also had the IBM OS available PC-DOS, OS/2(???)). At one point I actually ran MS Xenix on the thing, not much use though - my world of information management was migrating hard towards off-the-shelf MS DOS apps. Ah, Happy Days

rjbl

Calmatory
May 15th, 2011, 05:58 PM
PC = Personal Computer.

Therefore:

GNU/Linux = PC
Windows = PC
Mac = PC

Not just Personal Computer, but rather IBM PC compliant computer. That is, IBM-PC/XT and AT-standard from the 80's to the current ATX 2.3.

But of course kids want to be cool so.. "Not just my PC but my LEENOCKS BOCKS which runs JUWBUNT-U".

So pathetic. :| And still, Linux is nothing but a mere POSIX compliant(and laughably not even fully compliant) kernel.

jaut
May 15th, 2011, 05:59 PM
It'sLikeWindowsButInsteadOfBlueScreensItActuallyWo rks

Spice Weasel
May 15th, 2011, 06:06 PM
It'sLikeWindowsButInsteadOfBlueScreensItActuallyWo rks

Unless you are using a laptop without power management support, then it does work, but as a microwave instead of a computer.

OM NOM NOM
May 15th, 2011, 06:28 PM
It's a PC , it's a Mac , it's plastic clicky thing it's @#$$# computer call what you will does it really matter?
I am typing this whilst laying in a bed in an Oncology Department , trust me there is bigger things to get ones panties in a twist over.

Well said.

forrestcupp
May 15th, 2011, 09:01 PM
"You have a PC. I have a Mac."

That's a statement I often heard by those who own Apple computers. I believe the automatic association that a Mac is not a PC comes from years of constant marketing from Apple Inc. Apple is full of it.True. The hype over the distinction between Macs and PCs as Windows computers is more Apple's fault than anyone else's because they want to be known as something different.


If they compute they are computers, and I call them as such.
On my feet I wear shoes, not Nikes or Reeboks.Exactly.



Thanks for the memories. I have clear memories, myself, of buying Unysis box back in '86. It was actually labelled 'PC AT', if I recall correctly. It ran MS-DOS (but also had the IBM OS available PC-DOS, OS/2(???)). At one point I actually ran MS Xenix on the thing, not much use though - my world of information management was migrating hard towards off-the-shelf MS DOS apps. Ah, Happy Days

rjblYeah, I remember the ATs and XTs very well. In the beginning, PC-DOS was just IBM's rebranding of MS-DOS. They split later on. OS/2 came out around '87 and ended up getting destroyed by Windows around '90. They kept it going until about 5 years ago, but I never knew anyone who used it. I was mostly a Commodore 64 guy until I finally could afford a modern computer around '94. :)

Thewhistlingwind
May 15th, 2011, 09:08 PM
So pathetic. :| And still, Linux is nothing but a mere POSIX compliant(and laughably not even fully compliant) kernel.

The open group awarded Mac OS X a certificate of official UNIX status, if it makes you feel any better.:popcorn:

Also, Windows is nothing but a mere DOS system with GUI. Based on a technology Bill Gates didn't even write. (Then again, Ken thompson wrote UNIX, not Linus.)

Antarctica32
May 15th, 2011, 09:18 PM
Hell, the masses have no idea that Android is a Linux OS. ](*,)

that's exactly wat i was thinkin, lawl

forrestcupp
May 15th, 2011, 09:24 PM
Also, Windows is nothing but a mere DOS system with GUI. Based on a technology Bill Gates didn't even write. (Then again, Ken thompson wrote UNIX, not Linus.)

That hasn't been true since XP, and it was never true for NT and 2000.

And Linus never claimed to write Unix or even a Unix clone. He wrote a MINIX clone.

Thewhistlingwind
May 15th, 2011, 09:29 PM
That hasn't been true since XP, and it was never true for NT and 2000.


Fair enough. It was the first few that got Microsoft off the ground though.

And I think you could say that by writing a minix clone your writing a unix clone, especially if the minix clone is a monolithic kernel.

Also, I never said Linus claimed to write any of those things, I never said Bill Gates claimed to write QDOS either.

At any rate, was it ever a design goal of Linux to be POSIX compliant? That's not a rhetorical question.

el_koraco
May 15th, 2011, 09:35 PM
True. The hype over the distinction between Macs and PCs as Windows computers is more Apple's fault than anyone else's because they want to be known as something different.


In my experience, the PC/Mac distinction hasn't really caught much traction outside of the US. Maybe in the UK, dunno. Seems like the technology magazines and newspapers spread the word. AP and AFP sometimes mention PC's as such, but that's mostly in passing.

Outside of the US, people do call Macs Macs, but they don't refer to non-Apple computers as PC's specifically. They just call them computers. Wonder why that is. I'm guessing Apple didn't shell out much money into that kind of advertising east of the Atlantic.

Old_Grey_Wolf
May 15th, 2011, 10:14 PM
...OS/2 came out around '87 and ended up getting destroyed by Windows around '90. They kept it going until about 5 years ago, but I never knew anyone who used it. I was mostly a Commodore 64 guy until I finally could afford a modern computer around '94. :)

I used OS/2. It had some similarities with both Unix and DOS. It was a strange mix. It ran on my home computer that only had 32KB of RAM (that is not a typo :)).

forrestcupp
May 15th, 2011, 10:16 PM
I used OS/2. It had some similarities with both Unix and DOS. It was a strange mix. It ran on my home computer that only had 32KB of RAM (that is not a typo :))

Wow. That's half the RAM of a C64.

Old_Grey_Wolf
May 15th, 2011, 10:30 PM
Wow. That's half the RAM of a C64.

The "(that is not a typo :))" was intended for the younger readers of the forum.

I am unsubscribing to this thread. I have used computers for so long. The architectures change, the operating systems change, and the marketing strategies change. A computer is a computer, I could care less what someone wants to call their computer that has an OS installed on it.

Johnsie
May 15th, 2011, 10:45 PM
Linux = almost anything

Linux Freedom means that it's not just tied down to one platform like the others.

Antarctica32
May 15th, 2011, 11:08 PM
The "(that is not a typo :))" was intended for the younger readers of the forum.


Like me! And i totally understand the only 32k of ram. My dad used to have a c64 (like a lot of people apparently). Only 8-bit, Wow!

Buntumatic
May 16th, 2011, 01:14 AM
I used OS/2. It had some similarities with both Unix and DOS. It was a strange mix. It ran on my home computer that only had 32KB of RAM (that is not a typo :)).
This definitely is a typo. K has never stood for kilo (1000x). As long as there has been metric system lowercase k is kilo and uppercase K is Kelvin degree. Although, there is a prefix which starts with uppercase K - it is Ki.
So, if you meant kilobytes you should have written kB, kibibytes would be KiB.

See for yourself: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

(I was thinking I'm the only person in the US who knows SI until I found this page, whoever wrote this is the second person in the US who knows metric system.)

forrestcupp
May 16th, 2011, 01:31 AM
This definitely is a typo. K has never stood for kilo (1000x). As long as there has been metric system lowercase k is kilo and uppercase K is Kelvin degree. Although, there is a prefix which starts with uppercase K - it is Ki.
So, if you meant kilobytes you should have written kB, kibibytes would be KiB.

Lol. There's one in every crowd. :)

Antarctica32
May 16th, 2011, 01:38 AM
This definitely is a typo. K has never stood for kilo (1000x). As long as there has been metric system lowercase k is kilo and uppercase K is Kelvin degree. Although, there is a prefix which starts with uppercase K - it is Ki.
So, if you meant kilobytes you should have written kB, kibibytes would be KiB.

See for yourself: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

(I was thinking I'm the only person in the US who knows SI until I found this page, whoever wrote this is the second person in the US who knows metric system.)

didn't see that comin

Austin25
May 16th, 2011, 03:19 AM
GNU/Linux = Linux.

PhillyPhil
May 16th, 2011, 03:40 AM
... especially if the minix clone is a monolithic kernel.



Oxymoron? :p

Thewhistlingwind
May 16th, 2011, 03:54 AM
Oxymoron? :p

Exactly

Old_Grey_Wolf
May 17th, 2011, 12:03 AM
This definitely is a typo. K has never stood for kilo (1000x). As long as there has been metric system lowercase k is kilo and uppercase K is Kelvin degree. Although, there is a prefix which starts with uppercase K - it is Ki.
So, if you meant kilobytes you should have written kB, kibibytes would be KiB.

See for yourself: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

(I was thinking I'm the only person in the US who knows SI until I found this page, whoever wrote this is the second person in the US who knows metric system.)

Since I was referring to RAM which is measured in 1024 bytes I should have used KiB. I was 50 years old when the prefixes Gi, Mi, and Ki were proposed by the standards organizations in 1998. :)

jamesjenner
May 17th, 2011, 12:14 AM
Interesting conversation but I suspect the initial premise is flawed.

IMO macs are called macs because the hardware is an Apple Macintosh, Mac being short for Macintosh. The OS is actually OSX, I'm not aware of OSX being referred to as Mac OS or Apple OS (though I could be wrong). In the general world of people who are not technically minded, they would think of a Mac as a specific piece of hardware that has a certain physical appearance.

If I was to say to someone your using a Mac, people immediately get the impression of the Mac hardware. With bootcamp, people who are technically minded will realise that it doesn't mean OSX but may mean Windows or Linux as the operating system.

I have a MacBook, I refer to it as a Mac even though I use Ubuntu on it. If someone asked what it is I would say "It's a Mac laptop running Ubuntu", no need for abbreviations that would just confuse people and how I described it would be clear to someone who doesn't understand what a macbook is (which is a stupid word invented by Apple for fanboys, because anyone else wouldn't know what it is).

Of course creating a moniker for something is a good way to get market recognition, but lets face it, without the budget of Apple's marketing division, how do you propose to get a new moniker that represent hardware running Ubuntu into the general community, outside of this specific Ubuntu based community? Lets face it, a lot of non technical people still have a blank expression on their face if you mention firefox, and they've had advertising campaigns!

Anyway, hope I didn't get to rantish and will get off of my soap box now.

Antarctica32
May 17th, 2011, 01:01 AM
Interesting conversation but I suspect the initial premise is flawed.

IMO macs are called macs because the hardware is an Apple Macintosh, Mac being short for Macintosh. The OS is actually OSX, I'm not aware of OSX being referred to as Mac OS or Apple OS (though I could be wrong). In the general world of people who are not technically minded, they would think of a Mac as a specific piece of hardware that has a certain physical appearance.

If I was to say to someone your using a Mac, people immediately get the impression of the Mac hardware. With bootcamp, people who are technically minded will realise that it doesn't mean OSX but may mean Windows or Linux as the operating system.

I have a MacBook, I refer to it as a Mac even though I use Ubuntu on it. If someone asked what it is I would say "It's a Mac laptop running Ubuntu", no need for abbreviations that would just confuse people and how I described it would be clear to someone who doesn't understand what a macbook is (which is a stupid word invented by Apple for fanboys, because anyone else wouldn't know what it is).

Of course creating a moniker for something is a good way to get market recognition, but lets face it, without the budget of Apple's marketing division, how do you propose to get a new moniker that represent hardware running Ubuntu into the general community, outside of this specific Ubuntu based community? Lets face it, a lot of non technical people still have a blank expression on their face if you mention firefox, and they've had advertising campaigns!

Anyway, hope I didn't get to rantish and will get off of my soap box now.

I couldn't agree more. I especially liked the
"... what a macbook is (which is a stupid word invented by Apple for fanboys, because anyone else wouldn't know what it is)" part