Will Wayland bring more gaming?

[Not unique]

Do you think the Wayland will bring better graphics and then better games?
Also will it mean a more commercialised Ubuntu??
What do you think?

[neu5eeCh]

Yes, but I think it's going to throw a bus-sized wrench into the linux gaming community. One small example: Many players rely on keymapping to make use of their gamepads and joysticks. All these little "remapping" programs, like QJoyPad, are based on XWindows. As much as I'm looking forward to Wayland, I won't be switching my kids' computer over until I can remap their gamepad on Wayland.

[Not unique]

That's an interesting point I never thought about it but they REALLY ARE going to have a lot of work to do to make it work.
I was just thinking of reasons why Ubuntu are switching to Wayland bearing in mind Ubuntu/Canonical is a company that needs to earn money I wondered what commercial reasons they might have.

[NMFTM]

That's an interesting point I never thought about it but they REALLY ARE going to have a lot of work to do to make it work.
I guess it falls into the category of "can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs".

[Not unique]

I love what Ubuntu/Canonical is doing, I think that if it does become more commercial we could end up with more drivers etc and other distros/Open source communities could feel the benefit off the back of it whilst we will still have all the Open source stuff GREAT!

[BertN45]

No i do not think Wayland will help. Gaming companies want to make a profit and the Linux market share is simply too small to make serious money. Maybe the new Ubuntu Software Center will help to get some more relatively simple games, because they can sell the games now through the Ubuntu Software Center and avoid some of the marketing costs..

[Not unique]

Hmm, maybe one day but I think it will bring BETTER gaming though hopefully.

[Paqman]

That really, really depends on how well proprietary graphics drivers work under Wayland. If we're forced to use the open source drivers like nouveau when it rolls out (as I suspect we will) then it'll be a pretty substantial backwards step.

[Spice Weasel]

No. It will bring more bugs, instability and incompatibility for sure though.

[Not unique]

WOW people are not! impressed with Wayland much at all.
I thought it might just take some time but looking at some of these posts people don't have much belief in it at all.

[PhillyPhil]

WOW people are not! impressed with Wayland much at all.
I thought it might just take some time but looking at some of these posts people don't have much belief in it at all.

Well I for one am looking forward to it ;)
X is incredibly versatile, but I think in the longer term it's a good move to go to something a little younger. Not sure that it'll make any difference to gaming though.

[TeoBigusGeekus]

Wayland is a much more advanced graphics server than X:
http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
Wayland as wayland, seen independently, is awesome. I'm just worried about Canonical's implementation of it: if they managed to screw a simple desktop environment, imagine what it's gonna be with a brand new graphics server.

[frankbooth]

Wayland isn't a bad thing, it sounds very good actually.

But if Nvidia, ATI/AMD and Intel don't want to create drivers, I don't see the point in switching.

[Paqman]

WOW people are not! impressed with Wayland much at all.
I thought it might just take some time but looking at some of these posts people don't have much belief in it at all.

Not really, moving on from X will be a good thing. But you asked a very specific question, to which the answer is "no".

[el_koraco]

When it lands in Ubuntu, it's gonna be a mess. Might turn out nice in the end though.

[neu5eeCh]

Wayland should tremendously improve the hardware acceleration of graphics. At present, Firefox implements hardware acceleration on both Windows and Apple, but not Linux because Xwindows is such a mess. That, anyway, is what I've read.

[JDShu]

My somewhat lacking understanding is that Wayland will allow various developers to bypass the cruft in X, so at the very least the new flexibility will allow better integration with the desktop. I'm thinking possible alt-tab support once people make a proper client. Is that correct?

[Not unique]

Sounds good not too sure myself though but I read X was built for more server like OS's in mind and there is no need for a lot of that any more.
Or something like that.?.
What is meant by proper alt tab support??

[frankbooth]

Nokia will be focusing on Wayland when developing Qt5, which is good since Canonical has announced that they will be moving more to Qt.

Source: http://www.cnkeyword.info/nokia-announced-plans-qt5-2/

[Paqman]

Nokia will be focusing on Wayland when developing Qt5, which is good since Canonical has announced that they will be moving more to Qt.

Source: http://www.cnkeyword.info/nokia-announced-plans-qt5-2/

Well, Nokia are still supporting Qt for now, but I wouldn't like to put money on that continuing in the future. Nokia is heading for some seriously tough times, and is likely to need to confine their focus to their core business.

[frankbooth]

Well, Nokia are still supporting Qt for now, but I wouldn't like to put money on that continuing in the future. Nokia is heading for some seriously tough times, and is likely to need to confine their focus to their core business.

They are going through a tough period indeed. But... http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/14/qt-and-digia-facts-and-fiction/

[unknownPoster]

No. I personally feel that it will discourage game developers. The last thing Linux on the Desktop needs is more fragmentation.

[beew]

No. It will bring more bugs, instability and incompatibility for sure though.

Agree, especially after seeing how they rush Unity even before it is ready. But I expect they would give you the option to swap out Wayland for X when it comes, otherwise I will be switching distro. Unity may be a relatively small inconvenience but I can't use Ubuntu if it is breaking my graphic card.

[beew]

Wayland should tremendously improve the hardware acceleration of graphics. At present, Firefox implements hardware acceleration on both Windows and Apple, but not Linux because Xwindows is such a mess. That, anyway, is what I've read.

Actually FF does have hardware acceleration for Linux if you have a Nvidia card. Apart from X maybe it has to do with AMD having really ****** Linux drivers? (I don't know, the only instance when I use AMD I have the open source driver. But I see many threads on ADM problems)

Now at this point Nvidia is not even considering supporting Wayland, that may change eventually, but what I am worry about is Canonical is going to switch before hardware and software supports are ready. The Unity fiasco doesn't inspire confidence. Like I said, I do expect the option to swap out Wayland for X if it is to become the default (at least at first)

[matthewbpt]

It is wayyyyyy to early to speculate about gaming with wayland, let's first speculate about the desktop under wayland ... It is certainly a very promising project, but I think we needs more than just a new Display system to improve the gaming scene in Linux.

[Dustin2128]

I personally think that wayland looks like it'll be awesome- once it's stable. But why would it change anything on the gaming front? They seem unrelated to me, like "Will kernel 2.6.40 bring more gaming?". Other than that, the main problem with games on linux besides the market share thing is the amount of overlap between linux users and pirates- drove loki out of business.

[JDShu]

What is meant by proper alt tab support??

I just mean that somebody should be able to implement a wayland client for games that allows us to just press alt-tab and minimize or otherwise hide full screen games like in Windows. Right now in X, these need to be hard coded into the game, I think, which is annoying. Again, my understanding is quite lacking.

[timZZ]

People seem confused when it comes to items like this.

It isn't about what changes we can make today to make today better it is about what changes we can make today to improve the future.

With the right platform we together can jump even higher.

[Lucradia]

No, I believe it won't for many reasons already mentioned (including the people who said "Yes.")

[screaminj3sus]

I just mean that somebody should be able to implement a wayland client for games that allows us to just press alt-tab and minimize or otherwise hide full screen games like in Windows. Right now in X, these need to be hard coded into the game, I think, which is annoying. Again, my understanding is quite lacking.

And alt tab is also just broken in general, there's no thumbnails for minimized windows without hacky workarounds.

[FuturePilot]

I think it's way to early to worry about Wayland.

[Lucradia]

I think it's way to early to worry about Wayland.

*As they put it in for 12.04*

[Oxwivi]

No. It will bring more bugs, instability and incompatibility for sure though.
I'm surprised that came from you; regarding backwards compatibility with X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29#Backward_com patibility_with_X).

[beew]

*As they put it in for 12.04*

Are they nuts? Many people are still reeling from Unity, which is small comparing to Wayland.

[FuturePilot]

*As they put it in for 12.04*

12.04 is an LTS release. There's no way they're going to do that. Anyways, they may slowly transition to it, but it's definitely not going to happen all at once.

[el_koraco]

And alt tab is also just broken in general, there's no thumbnails for minimized windows without hacky workarounds.

I kinda dislike random X crashes more.

[Spice Weasel]

I'm surprised that came from you; regarding backwards compatibility with X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29#Backward_com patibility_with_X).

Nvidia have already announced they will not support Wayland.

[beew]

Nvidia have already announced they will not support Wayland.

To be accurate they say that they have no plan to support it at the moment (typical corporate speech) but it doesn't mean that they never will. I take it to mean that they don't want to commit themselves without seeing anything tangible but it can change especially if big players like Redhat comes onbroad. But it will be difficult if it is yet another Ubuntu only thing (like Unity)

But it will definitely be premature to put wayland of 12.04 other than as an available experimental thing for developers.

[Dustin2128]

Nvidia have already announced they will not support Wayland.
To think, I might actually have a use for my laptop with the intel card! :lolflag:

[Not unique]

it could take years for Wayland to gain support hopefully they will leave other options available.

[Dustin2128]

Just out of curiosity, would anyone explain to me why wayland might possibly bring more gaming?

[Not unique]

Apparently Wayland will simplify and speed up the whole graphics process allowing for better sharper games (If we get the propriety graphics drivers) as apose to X which is meant to be a bit of a jumble right now after years of adapting and stretching in different directions so to speak.
As for Nvidia this article is interesting:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/nvidia-have-no-plans-to-support-wayland/

P.S. if Ubuntu could make and sell some games we could keep Ubuntu for years and years with the money, this article explains well:
http://www.ubuntuforecast.com/page/2/

[MasterNetra]

Poll lacks a "time will tell" / "I don't know" option. Besides none of us could actually know the question to this anyway, its all out the rump guesses. It COULD bring more gaming, but will it? Only time will tell.

[Not unique]

True true but I'm just after opinions for now I thought it would be good to see other peoples opinions to see how everybody feels.

[Dustin2128]

I knew it cleaned up the whole graphics process, but I didn't know that it was significant enough to merit a new age of linux gaming! Can't wait.... until nvidia decides to support it!

[3rdalbum]

I think by the time Wayland hits the stage where it can be used as the default, either X will have mostly caught up, or we'll find that Wayland is too inflexible for a particular feature that we'll need or want at that particular time.

I hope I'm wrong, though.

[user1397]

I honestly have no idea. I don't really know anything about wayland, so I can't vote in the poll. :popcorn:

[handy]

Wayland is not even worth thinking about. It will take so long before it is of any use to anyone.

It requires application & game makers to support it. Very few of them are going to go to the trouble of doing that for a system that basically next to nobody is using.

[Johnsie]

I don't have a crystal ball... I'll wait and see what happens when it comes out.

[JDShu]

I think by the time Wayland hits the stage where it can be used as the default, either X will have mostly caught up, or we'll find that Wayland is too inflexible for a particular feature that we'll need or want at that particular time.

I hope I'm wrong, though.

No worries, you are quite wrong.

Wayland is just a protocol for graphics display. It's essentially infinitely flexible. On the other hand X has a lot of "features" from the past few decades that are barely used at all, and forces applications to do a lot of things badly.

[JDShu]

Wayland is not even worth thinking about. It will take so long before it is of any use to anyone.

It requires application & game makers to support it. Very few of them are going to go to the trouble of doing that for a system that basically next to nobody is using.

Curious, I did a quick search and found this:

http://wayland.freedesktop.org/toolkits.html

So it sounds like once SDL/GTK/Qt works with Wayland, the large majority of current Linux games will work.

[Oxwivi]

I knew it cleaned up the whole graphics process, but I didn't know that it was significant enough to merit a new age of linux gaming! Can't wait.... until nvidia decides to support it!
Or Noveau to catch up to proprietary drivers!

[Not unique]

JDShu that web address on Wayland was a good find it has some brilliant screenshots on it.
Looks like it could be really good.

[akand074]

I really hope the open-source drivers beat out the proprietary drivers for linux. They usually integrate better and can be available in the Live CD by default so no need to install them afterward.

[Dustin2128]

Or Noveau to catch up to proprietary drivers!
Not happening for a good long while- I'd bet that the open drivers for AMD cards will be entirely usable for gaming and compositing inside a few years though.

[MasterNetra]

Wayland is not even worth thinking about. It will take so long before it is of any use to anyone.

It requires application & game makers to support it. Very few of them are going to go to the trouble of doing that for a system that basically next to nobody is using.

Well the good news is that wayland will take what a couple of years? Plenty of time for developers to adapt. 11.10 or 12.04 may start doing something with wayland, but of course as mention the OS will still be X compatible.

[yanom]

will Wayland replace and obsolete X?

[JDShu]

will Wayland replace and obsolete X?

Yes. Considering that this is what many of the X devs want.

[Lucradia]

Yes. Considering that this is what many of the X devs want.

Hope we don't have to learn keybindings for most things :<

[ryanh06]

I can only hope so! The current state of Linux gaming is atrocious [mostly] Its bad when hot Linux games look like they belong in the early nighties and not 2011! But realistically i don’t know. I mean Mac's gaming situation while light years better than Linux is still very embarrassing compared to Windows. Oh well :popcorn: