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jfloydb
May 9th, 2011, 10:03 PM
I am looking at Xubuntu 11.04 from a CD disk. I am using it as I post these remarks. From first glance the Xfce desktop looks very nice and functional, much nicer than Unity. I'm weary of a desktop environment that (to quote another forum member) "looks like it needs a Unicorn", and Unity doesn't offer much hope. For me, I guess, this will probably be the year of Xubuntu. Has anybody else thought about switching to Xubuntu?

MBybee
May 9th, 2011, 10:08 PM
I like Xubuntu, been playing with it a lot recently, actually.

I think I'll keep Gnome for a while yet, but it's certainly in the running. A few of my coworkers have converted to the 11.04 Xubuntu, it's quite popular with the ones who use OSX at home.

mikewhatever
May 9th, 2011, 10:12 PM
Nope, I haven't tested Xubuntu 11.04. Anyway, if you need a pat on the shoulder for making your choice, then here you go, pat pat.
:P

jfloydb
May 9th, 2011, 11:10 PM
Nope, I haven't tested Xubuntu 11.04. Anyway, if you need a pat on the shoulder for making your choice, then here you go, pat pat.
:P

Just trying to make conversation...

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 12:30 AM
For me, I guess, this will probably be the year of Xubuntu. Has anybody else thought about switching to Xubuntu?

OK, cue sound of broken record: I've switched to Xubuntu and I love it.

3Miro
May 10th, 2011, 01:45 AM
I was a long time KDE user. I also liked Gnome, my only issue was that KDE's Kwin was better then Compiz and Metacity. Then I discovered XFCE and I am full time XFCE user since 9.10.

JKyleOKC
May 10th, 2011, 01:55 AM
I've been using Xubuntu since the days of Feisty Fawn and definitely prefer it to any other interface I've tried. Initially I was running on ancient hardware with very limited resources, but even after replacing that with current equipment have stayed with Xubuntu.

I tried Ubuntu itself at one point, but found it to be overloaded with eye candy for my taste. I've also tried Mint and Puppy, running in virtual machines, and found both to be unsatisfactory. I'm now experimenting with Debian Squeeze on one system, in preparation for a possible move to Debian if Xubuntu follows the Ubuntu lead in going toward Unity -- but installed its XFCE version so that it looks and feels almost the same as Xubuntu!

Xubuntu seems to have hit the right compromise between infinite customizability and ease of use, although it still has a few areas that lead me to some confusion, such as how to edit the system applications menu to reflect new packages or move existing ones. However as I continue to study the system internals, I can see that doing this is possible -- it just takes a bit more digging to learn how!

K_45
May 10th, 2011, 02:07 AM
Xubuntu isn't exactly an XFCE distro. If you really want XFCE use a minimal install CD or a Debian net install.

ivanovnegro
May 10th, 2011, 02:15 AM
Xubuntu isn't exactly an XFCE distro. If you really want XFCE use a minimal install CD or a Debian net install.


Again the net install? :p
You are right about that but if you want a full blown DE similar to Ubuntu but you dont like Unity, I think then Xubuntu is great, seems to be at least for me a viable alternative for Ubuntu Unity because its like you said very similar to the normal Gnome more as to pure Xfce's of Debian or whatever.

K_45
May 10th, 2011, 02:20 AM
Again the net install? :p
You are right about that but if you want a full blown DE similar to Ubuntu but you dont like Unity, I think then Xubuntu is great, seems to be at least for me a viable alternative for Ubuntu Unity because its like you said very similar to the normal Gnome more as to pure Xfce's of Debian or whatever.

You can have a full blown DE without the bloat of (X)Ubuntu though I see your point.

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 02:30 AM
Xubuntu isn't exactly an XFCE distro. If you really want XFCE use a minimal install CD or a Debian net install.

I agree with ivanovnegro. I like Xubuntu's refinements.

The purity of XFCE doesn't matter to me so much. I don't use XFCE because I'm looking for the "light weight" desktop. I like that Xubuntu turns XFCE into a more Gnome-like environment - makes it easier and more refined.

ivanovnegro
May 10th, 2011, 02:31 AM
Actually I was playing a bit with the Xubuntu 11.04 Live CD, but cannot connect to the Wireless, I type in my password for the Wireless connection and then comes up this screen with the keyring, I set it up to blank and hit enter and then it asks me again and again to type in the password for my wireless, what I am doing wrong, the same problem with Ubuntu, on Kubuntu it works great.
I want to try Xubuntu on the laptop of my girl friend. She needs something lighter after I saw that Ubuntu 10.10 was too heavey for just 800 MB of RAM.

So far, I like Xubuntu really.

Can somebody tell some experiences in general with it?

K_45
May 10th, 2011, 02:32 AM
I agree with ivanovnegro. I like Xubuntu's refinements.

The purity of XFCE doesn't matter to me so much. I don't use XFCE because I'm looking for the "light weight" desktop. I like that Xubuntu turns XFCE into a more Gnome-like environment - makes it easier and more refined.

But XFCE is a great DE in its own right, without GNOME . . . oh never mind.

ivanovnegro
May 10th, 2011, 02:33 AM
I agree with ivanovnegro. I like Xubuntu's refinements.

The purity of XFCE doesn't matter to me so much. I don't use XFCE because I'm looking for the "light weight" desktop. I like that Xubuntu turns XFCE into a more Gnome-like environment - makes it easier and more refined.

Exactly thats my point.

ivanovnegro
May 10th, 2011, 02:35 AM
But XFCE is a great DE in its own right, without GNOME . . . oh never mind.

I agree with you and if you want a really lightweight desktop with Xfce, maybe Debian is really a better choice or even Lubuntu if you want to stay on the side of Ubuntu.

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 02:48 AM
But XFCE is a great DE in its own right, without GNOME . . . oh never mind.

Alright already... I tell you what: I keep two partitions available for distro-hopping. I tried Mint XFCE first, but didn't like that they were still using 4.6x. Since they're based on Debian, I assume the same is true of Debian. The font resolution on Mint XFCE and Debian (how to say this diplomatically?) sucked.

I also tried #! XFCE, based on 4.8, but I didn't like that I was going to have to work much harder to set up the same system I was accustomed to in Ubuntu (because of the Debian repositories). For example, they were throwing Open Office at me instead of Libre Office. Libre Office was nowhere in the Debian repository. Fine, I install Libre elsewhere, but what about Gnome compatibility (for appearance and so it uses Nautilus), and WP conversion, yadda, yadda, yadda... I'm sure if I had spent enough time on it, I could have sorted it all out, but Ubuntu makes it much easier. I'll take another look at Debian once they approve 4.8, which should happen sometime during the next decade...

But anyway, why don't you tell me which pure XFCE I should try out and I'll have a go at it (while I also install Lubuntu).

Gremlinzzz
May 10th, 2011, 02:55 AM
I installed it and like what they done to it.also installed unity and like it. i think there both Hugh improvements!:D

K_45
May 10th, 2011, 03:02 AM
Alright already... I tell you what: I keep two partitions available for distro-hopping. I tried Mint XFCE first, but didn't like that they were still using 4.6x. Since they're based on Debian, I assume the same is true of Debian. The font resolution on Mint XFCE and Debian (how to say this diplomatically?) sucked.

I also tried #! XFCE, based on 4.8, but I didn't like that I was going to have to work much harder to set up the same system I was accustomed to in Ubuntu (because of the Debian repositories). For example, they were throwing Open Office at me instead of Libre Office. Libre Office was nowhere in the Debian repository. Fine, I install Libre elsewhere, but what about Gnome compatibility (for appearance and so it uses Nautilus), and WP conversion, yadda, yadda, yadda... I'm sure if I had spent enough time on it, I could have sorted it all out, but Ubuntu makes it much easier. I'll take another look at Debian once they approve 4.8, which should happen sometime during the next decade...

But anyway, why don't you tell me which pure XFCE I should try out and I'll have a go at it (while I also install Lubuntu).

Why do you need GNOME compatibility or LIbreOffice? OpenOffice will do the job but I only need Abiword for my work. As for GNOME - ? Spend a month trying out Debian and I'm sure it will fit your needs.

Bandit
May 10th, 2011, 03:06 AM
XFCE is a excellent little desktop GUI and Xubuntu team do a real good job putting it together. If Unity doesnt pan out in the long run, then Xubuntu (XFCE) will more then likely become my DE of choice.

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 03:07 AM
Why do you need GNOME compatibility or LIbreOffice?

I got used to the Icon set.

Also, at least in my install of Xubuntu, Libre only used Nautilus as it's file browser after I installed Gnome compatibility. (I installed Nautilus Elementary early on.)


OpenOffice will do the job but I only need Abiword for my work. As for GNOME - ?

I've been thinking of switching to Abiword for most of my writing.

K_45
May 10th, 2011, 03:32 AM
I got used to the Icon set.

Also, at least in my install of Xubuntu, Libre only used Nautilus as it's file browser after I installed Gnome compatibility. (I installed Nautilus Elementary early on.)



I've been thinking of switching to Abiword for most of my writing.

Ahh, in a Debian XFCE install, you use Thunar, the native file manager of XFCE. Also, this version of XFCE uses the gnome tango icons for the menu. No bits of GNOME, so no Nautilus, no Gdebi, and no Synaptic. The last 2 are just pretty frontends with a lot of dependencies to apt and dpkg.

Warpnow
May 10th, 2011, 05:09 AM
Ahh, in a Debian XFCE install, you use Thunar, the native file manager of XFCE. Also, this version of XFCE uses the gnome tango icons for the menu. No bits of GNOME, so no Nautilus, no Gdebi, and no Synaptic. The last 2 are just pretty frontends with a lot of dependencies to apt and dpkg.

Xubuntu uses Thunar. It does have synaptic but does not have Nautilus or gdebi installed.

I'd say synaptic is a good package to have on a system even slightly newbie friendly.

It uses xfburn & parole, which alot of Xfce distros don't.

Its not pure Xfce. I run debian + xfce on one of my computers, as well as ran ubuntu minimal + Xfce with 10.10, and I really think Xubuntu has improved. Better theme, application choice.

The only big thing I'd change is to ditch gnome network manager for wicd.

K_45
May 10th, 2011, 05:11 AM
Xubuntu uses Thunar. It does have synaptic but does not have Nautilus or gdebi installed.

I'd say synaptic is a good package to have on a system even slightly newbie friendly.

It uses xfburn & parole, which alot of Xfce distros don't.

Its not pure Xfce. I run debian + xfce on one of my computers, as well as ran ubuntu minimal + Xfce with 10.10, and I really think Xubuntu has improved. Better theme, application choice.

The only big thing I'd change is to ditch gnome network manager for wicd.

True, but Parole is horrible. It simply cannot match VLC even for basic media duties.

jfloydb
May 10th, 2011, 05:23 AM
Before I make my final statement, I want to thank all who offered positive statements. Thank You! I am writing this from a Unity environment, and I feel that I need not offer any apologies: Unity (to quote someone from Linsux) is a "steaming pile of dog crap"! I have never worked in such a miserable environment, and I will not pretend that I can. I like Ubuntu, and I use 10.04 LTS regularly, but I will never use Unity. Some have mentioned that one can choose Ubuntu Classic as a desktop environment, but I have yet to find it. So here I am, working, for the moment, in an environment that wants to be an iphone, but fails miserably. I have been a Ubuntu user since 7 something, but Unity is unacceptable. Xubuntu, or some other distro, is where I'm going to stay for a while. And if someone wants to "pat [me] on the back", well fine...

mikewhatever
May 10th, 2011, 05:38 AM
Ah, though the original post smelt like it, I was really hoping this wasn't yet another 'let's badmouth Unity' thread, but now, you've removed all doubts. Too bad that this is your idea of making conversation, gonna add you to my ignore list this time.

Warpnow
May 10th, 2011, 05:54 AM
True, but Parole is horrible. It simply cannot match VLC even for basic media duties.

I actually quite like Parole, and while VLC is feature rich I've never been able to watch an entire movie in VLC without having the frames slow down or skip at some point during it.

K_45
May 10th, 2011, 06:40 AM
I actually quite like Parole, and while VLC is feature rich I've never been able to watch an entire movie in VLC without having the frames slow down or skip at some point during it.

On a netbook that would be true if its 720p or higher, if its a desktop install GPU drivers. I've never had a problem with VLC over here. I'd also blame the media file first.

Jagoly
May 10th, 2011, 08:28 AM
I actually quite like Parole, and while VLC is feature rich I've never been able to watch an entire movie in VLC without having the frames slow down or skip at some point during it.

In my experience, there are only three media players worth using.

For 70% of people, vlc, where resources aren't a huge issue,
For 25% of people, gnome mplayer, by far the most lightweight (graphical) media player,
For the other 5%, XBMC, for media centers.

On the topic:
Also Xubuntu is wonderful. Unity doesn't fit my work style (300,000+ windows opened at any given time, spread across 6 workspaces), so I switched.

Also, installing of of the software center, as well as the libreoffice-gtk-intergration package, doesn't install nautilus. Plus the regular ubuntu icon theme can be used from settings. Also, what's the option "xfce-session" in gdm?

ivanovnegro
May 10th, 2011, 08:46 AM
Ok, finally installed on the machine of my girl friend and the Wireless is working now.
I have to say, Im really impressed of Xubuntu 11.04 and I really like it more as Ubuntu with Unity. Whatever the Xubuntu team did to this release and the devs of Xfce, I cannot believe how fantastic Xubuntu is. Now it looks almost like the Maverick install before even nicer.

topcat5
May 10th, 2011, 09:49 AM
Yes, I've switched to it. After looking at Unity, which I absolutely don't like, and Gnome 3 and KDE 4, which are so complicated they get in the way, I settled on XFCE. I had to tweak the default destop that comes with Xubuntu, but after doing a little work, I can't imagine using anything else. (I got rid of the bottom panel and replaced it with a more gnome like panel)

It's also considerably faster than Gnome 2 on 10.04 which it replaced.

They have done a nice job with a good mix of packages.

Johnsie
May 10th, 2011, 11:59 AM
this is a recurring discussion.... A threat to flame unity... It's like beating a dead horse.

jfloydb
May 10th, 2011, 12:22 PM
this is a recurring discussion.... A threat to flame unity... It's like beating a dead horse.
Your right. Not my original intention. I let my comments get out-of-hand. My apologies to all.

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 12:36 PM
Ahh, in a Debian XFCE install, you use Thunar, the native file manager of XFCE. Also, this version of XFCE uses the gnome tango icons for the menu. No bits of GNOME, so no Nautilus, no Gdebi, and no Synaptic. The last 2 are just pretty frontends with a lot of dependencies to apt and dpkg.

Synaptic is a pretty front end? Don't you mean Ubuntu Software Center? But OK... I actually prefer Thunar for most browsing purposes, but Nautilus Elementary has some refinements that I've gotten used to - so why not use it. I don't mind bits of Gnome. Some of the those bits are useful to me.

I get the sense that Linux users are like Dog owners. There are some content to have muts (and that's the only kind of dog I've ever owned) while others are purists and only want purebreds - not bits and pieces from other breeds thank-you-very-much. These are the folk who lose hair when they read about us mut owners. OK, I will never experience the joys of the manicured pure-bred and the dog show of screenshots, but I find muts to be less finicky, suffer less from hip displasia, and will eat anything.

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 12:37 PM
this is a recurring discussion.... A threat to flame unity... It's like beating a dead horse.

You're equating Unity with a dead horse?:-\"

Morbius1
May 10th, 2011, 12:45 PM
Yes I have a Xubuntu 11.04 install and like it quite a bit. First XFCE I've used since the transition to 4.8 and there are many improvements. The only disappointment is the package: thunar-shares-plugin.

It's the thunar implementation of Samba's usershare and allows one to create a samba share directly from Thunar. It was there once and did work as advertised but the package itself seems to be broke and it's not clear from my searches if anyone knows it's broke.

Given the general feeling about Samba in Linux circles as being fit only for men that are not anatomically correct I don't know if this will ever get fixed :wink: Oddly enough you can create a Usershare from the command line but then what's the point.

el_koraco
May 10th, 2011, 12:53 PM
Synaptic is a pretty front end?

It's prettier than aptitude :D

3 frags left
May 10th, 2011, 12:57 PM
Xubuntu 11.04 user here. After a lot of struggle and bloodshed (lol) against compatibility issues, I installed Compiz and Emerald. Sweet eye-candy + Lightweight OS = Happy user :D

Also, whoever is having problems making both of them work, I may be of use.

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 01:02 PM
Xubuntu 11.04 user here. After a lot of struggle and bloodshed (lol) against compatibility issues, I installed Compiz and Emerald. Sweet eye-candy + Lightweight OS = Happy user :D

Also, whoever is having problems making both of them work, I may be of use.

:shock:
That was, originally, the reason I didn't want to use Xubuntu - couldn't get compiz or Emerald to work. Can you write up a dedicated HowTo? I, for one, would really, really, really, really, really appreciate it.

3 frags left
May 10th, 2011, 01:03 PM
:shock:
That was, originally, the reason I didn't want to use Xubuntu - couldn't get compiz or Emerald to work. Can you write up a dedicated HowTo? I, for one, would really, really, really, really, really appreciate it.
As you wish.

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 01:20 PM
By the way, do any of you Xubuntu users know the name of the menu which pops up on the desktop (middle mouse button on my mouse), that allows one to navigate to different workspaces or to opened apps? I'd like to create a keyboard shortcut to this menu but need to know the name of it (or where it's storied). Haven't found it yet.

ivanovnegro
May 10th, 2011, 01:44 PM
this is a recurring discussion.... A threat to flame unity... It's like beating a dead horse.

Maybe the OP had this intention and btw he apalogized.
I find this thread really interesting because Im searching for an alternative for the laptop of my girl friend, so what is your problem?
Sometimes I have the feelings any criticism would interprete as a flame against Unity, my intention was never to flame Unity here, it is to talk about Xubuntu, an official Ubuntu derivative as an alternative for older hardware.

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 01:49 PM
Maybe the OP had this intention and btw he apalogized.
I find this thread really interesting because Im searching for an alternative for the laptop of my girl friend, so what is your problem?
Sometimes I have the feelings any criticism would interprete as a flame against Unity, my intention was never to flame Unity here, it is to talk about Xubuntu, an official Ubuntu derivative as an alternative for older hardware.

I think we're seeing the germination and birth of a new kind of troll - the Unity Troll. ;) I've been told that one shouldn't feed them... they only grow stronger.

Jagoly
May 10th, 2011, 01:58 PM
an official Ubuntu derivative as an alternative for older hardware.

Works great on newer hardware to, in my opinion, it's nicer than unity (queue complaint about flaming), gnome 2 and kde. And that's without compiz.

ivanovnegro
May 10th, 2011, 02:00 PM
Works great on newer hardware to, in my opinion, it's nicer than unity (queue complaint about flaming), gnome 2 and kde. And that's without compiz.

Yes, it works great here on my machine, its fast, omg. I made a partition for it because I liked it so much and am typing from it.

Jagoly
May 10th, 2011, 02:08 PM
Someone just hurry up and make Kxfcopenicefluxgnomeitympizawesome
Ps: my ipod doesn't like that spelling for some reason...

3 frags left
May 10th, 2011, 02:39 PM
I think we're seeing the germination and birth of a new kind of troll - the Unity Troll. ;) I've been told that one shouldn't feed them... they only grow stronger.

14. Do not argue with trolls — it means that they win.
By the way, the tutorial is ready, now I only need to wait for the moderation to approve it.

madmax75
May 10th, 2011, 03:04 PM
Just burned the Xubuntu 11.04 to a dvd, going to try it out some day soon.

I have used the Linux Mint 9 XFCE version regularly in work and it is quite nice on an older laptop with some 400 MB of RAM (it had something like that, an odd number). The majority of the available memory is used by either Firefox or Chromium, not by the underlying OS.

Yeah, XFCE should be pretty easy for someone accustomed to the Gnome 2 environment.

NOTE:

I also plan to give Unity a shot, but I will wait at least to the end of this month.

MBybee
May 10th, 2011, 04:35 PM
I think we're seeing the germination and birth of a new kind of troll - the Unity Troll. ;) I've been told that one shouldn't feed them... they only grow stronger.

Actually, what you're seeing is the usual desire of users to experiment with different desktops when they are unhappy with the current one.

Unity may or may not be your cup of tea, but it's still a great thing for Linux users to experiment with various distros, window managers, desktop environments, and the like. Unlike Windows and Mac forums, we don't flame people here for wanting to have a different user experience.

Warpnow
May 10th, 2011, 05:41 PM
By the way, do any of you Xubuntu users know the name of the menu which pops up on the desktop (middle mouse button on my mouse), that allows one to navigate to different workspaces or to opened apps? I'd like to create a keyboard shortcut to this menu but need to know the name of it (or where it's storied). Haven't found it yet.


mmm...not sure about that particular menu but the desktop one is called by xfce4-popup-applicationsmenu.

Edit:

xfce4-popup-applicationsmenu xfce4-popup-directorymenu xfce4-popup-places
xfce4-popup-clipman xfce4-popup-notes xfce4-popup-windowmenu

Prolly one of those but a few don't seem to work right for me.

Lucradia
May 10th, 2011, 07:03 PM
I need to turn off the compositing though (and thus, need to take out XFCE Panel, then put it back in) so that the bottom panel doesn't have transparency, and can be removed, and so my panels don't disappear when compositing turns off.

But yes, I love XFCE, but sooner would use openbox (Hate fluxbox.)

MBybee
May 10th, 2011, 07:21 PM
But yes, I love XFCE, but sooner would use openbox (Hate fluxbox.)

Never compared openbox and fluxbox - what's the sticking point there?

Lucradia
May 10th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Never compared openbox and fluxbox - what's the sticking point there?

Fluxbox has its own panel (Don't really care for panels) and the key combos are harder to edit IMO. Openbox also integrates better with some things (stalonetray, PCManFM for Debiam (Not Ubuntu), and more.)

neu5eeCh
May 10th, 2011, 11:43 PM
By the way, the tutorial is ready, now I only need to wait for the moderation to approve it.

Great! Look forward to using it!

neu5eeCh
May 11th, 2011, 02:36 AM
mmm...not sure about that particular menu but the desktop one is called by xfce4-popup-applicationsmenu.

Edit:

xfce4-popup-applicationsmenu xfce4-popup-directorymenu xfce4-popup-places
xfce4-popup-clipman xfce4-popup-notes xfce4-popup-windowmenu

Prolly one of those but a few don't seem to work right for me.

Another user just gave me the name (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10798848#post10798848) of the menu. It's called:

xfdesktop --windowlist

I just bound it to Super-Shift-Z. Essentially does the same thing as Scale without the Bling.

Edit: At the same link above, there are now instructions for binding the key combination to the mouse. This means that the windowlist will now work in application windows and not just the desktop.

Jagoly
May 11th, 2011, 08:29 AM
Fluxbox has its own panel (Don't really care for panels) and the key combos are harder to edit IMO. Openbox also integrates better with some things (stalonetray, PCManFM for Debiam (Not Ubuntu), and more.)

Open box is a base and nothing else. Fluxbox is that base with a pile of stuff on top (panel, backgrounds, ect).

BTW Tint2 is An excellent panel choice for openbox. Can't comment on PCFanMan, as I base my openbox install on ubuntu 10.10 minimal (12.4mb compared to over 40 for "debiam")

K_45
May 11th, 2011, 08:42 AM
Open box is a base and nothing else. Fluxbox is that base with a pile of stuff on top (panel, backgrounds, ect).

BTW Tint2 is An excellent panel choice for openbox. Can't comment on PCFanMan, as I base my openbox install on ubuntu 10.10 minimal (12.4mb compared to over 40 for "debiam")

12.4MB? How much RAM is in the system? 64MB?

Jagoly
May 11th, 2011, 09:32 AM
12.4MB? How much RAM is in the system? 64MB?

128mb