Ubuntu 5 years later...

[reiki]

Been using Ubuntu since about August of 2005. I still have issues. Now before you go jumpin' all over me, I'm not whining. I'm going to try to get an idea across here.

My rear analog sound jack still doesn't work (Dell Zino HD). Helping my wife do things like batch resizing images for her web site is a chore and took a lot of searching. Creating video, burning a DVD that works in a regular DVD player, iPod integration, and a whole host of other items that are seemingly commonplace for mac and windows users, are a real effort in linux.... STILL... even after Ubuntu has made MAJOR strides to bring linux to the spotlight and become much more popular as an alternative OS.

It's WONDERFUL to not have to deal with virii and spyware and all of that. It's nice to be at a useable desktop in seconds rather than minutes. But when will the work be done on what to do once you GET to the desktop?

Yes, I know that many of the things I've mentioned, and many more that I haven't mentioned, are acheivable in Ubuntu, but for many, the cost is too high. A normal user does not want to compile, use the command line, use multiple programs where one should be able to handle a task, etc.

Readily available hardware should work reliably (WiFi, sound, video, etc). Information on purchasing/building a new machine with ALL hardware supported out of the box should be much easier to find. But let's get back to USABILITY.

I know that open source developers aren't working with big budgets. The work that they've already done is highly admirable and I applaude them. Both on the OS (thanks, Ubuntu team!) and on the application development side. But there needs to be more.

WE, THE USERS need to stand up a bit here. Have an app you like or one that shows promise but isn't quite what you need? CONTACT the developer and ask where you can send some money. $5 ? $10 ? $25 ? What's it worth to you? Free is GREAT, but how about giving the devs a little incentive to keep it free when you can afford it?

I'm getting a bit tired of waiting, I have to admit. I love Ubuntu and have used it as my daily OS for over 5 years now. I can't think of a good reason why I should be sitting here considering buying a mac mini so I can get stuff done easily and simply. Except that so many of the simple things are not so simple in linux.

These forums are ALSO a tremendous asset, but over time I find it harder and harder to find things (yes I know about searching. I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday), but how about a section dedicated JUST to usability. Not problem solving (like, my rear sound jack doesn't work), but rather have it JUST for usability. Burning a DVD (music... video), How to make a video DVD with a menu, how to work with images, etc. Some of this exists on here, but it's kind of scattered in various areas. Maybe a thread maintainer can update the first post in a thread with references to information found elsewhere on the forums. But let's find the best solutions, applications for a task and make them easy to find.

I really DON'T want to buy a mac mini just to get things done.

[howefield]

There doesn't appear to be a support request here, so moved to Cafe.

[drklunk]

Linux isnt for everyone and it just might have taken you five years to figure that out for yourself. Loving something is to let go (haha, but seriously), if you are not satisfied with your experience even after five years then maybe it is time to go on to something simple. Macs are solid machines but not as versatile... and super expensive.

I like your thinking though, wanting to see improvement rather than just give up. However, making Ubuntu as easy to use as Mac or Windows would take away from what it really is. Most people like it because its an easy to use Linux distro, not a tough to use Windows imitation. As much as Id like Ubuntu to do everything for me I enjoy the learning experience and challenge of trying to figure out what is wrong, even though I suck at it haha.

[NormanFLinux]

Ubuntu blazed the way forward for all the other Linux distros.

It offered a user-friendly, fast and customizable desktop and a great community of people to learn more about it and to get help from.

Its been five wonderful years and it has consistently maintained its number one position on the Distrowatch charts.

[keithpeter]

Helping my wife do things like batch resizing images for her web site is a chore and took a lot of searching.

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/tip/16524.html

(I first used imagemagick from the terminal under Mac OS)

Oddly enough, I've been using Ubuntu based linux from around May 2005....

http://bodmas.org/blog/ubuntu/ubuntu-linux/

...when I began to move away from Mac OS X. I've had a few hardware problems over the years but its mostly worked for me. I think its great that this level of OS and application software is available at no cost, provides total customisability limited only by how much time you have to invest, and that supports the huge range of random commercially sourced hardware going back 10 years!

As others have said, maybe a Mac would work for you? Very solid OS and the power of the terminal if you need it. Hardware will always 'just work' with Mac OS - lets face it Apple specify the hardware as well as write the OS. In the UK you can get second hand intel era Macs for not too high a price, and you can dual boot with Ubuntu.

[braden7]

Bugs and annoyances are no longer priority.

Priority has shifted to avant-garde interface concepts designed to challenge Apple for dominance of the hipster and granny market.

[neu5eeCh]

Hi Reiki,

Your thoughts are mine as well. My thinking is that Shuttleworth has to renovate the house before he can clean up the furniture. Before Shuttleworth, Linux was a mess as far as the average end-user was concerned. Having 6 or 7 DEs doesn't do Linux any favors with the Windows and MAC crowd - not to mention all their varying limitations and issues. I personally like the different DEs but it would be a huge bonus if the largest Linux distros coalesced around at least one primary, well thought-out, bug-free DE. Let it be Unity, KDE or G3. It doesn't matter. But Linux needs one DE that can compete head-on, with MAC & Windows. Obviously, Shuttleworth thinks it should be Unity & he may be right.

Secondly, Linux needs Wayland. The fact that Firefox can't use hardware acceleration in Linux because X11 is too buggy tells you everything you need to know. If the Linux community can coalesce around one DE and one computer software system and network protocol (Wayland), then it might be time to knuckle down on the software and hardware issues. From what I've read, it seems that the major distros already recognize this problem and are heading in this direction.

[urukrama]

Helping my wife do things like batch resizing images for her web site is a chore and took a lot of searching.

This is a great tool for Gimp for batch processing of images: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~hodsond/dbp.html

[Ken UK]

I first started to try and use it 5 years ago but Im the opposite, on my old computer it now works better than ever! I can feel your pain and yes an average user shouldn’t have to mess about with the terminal etc. but thats the one flaw to Linux, its lack of consistency. This isn't anyone’s fault but its something that is slowly getting better.

Some of the stuff you have mentioned are more to do with software and less to do with Ubuntu itself. Im sure someone in the know could easily point you towards software you need to get tasks done such as burning a DVD for dvd player use.

I actually find Mac and Windows alot worse than Ubuntu for many things especially burning dvd's and CD's, the software is bloated, crap, pricey, all over the place and still doesn’t do everything you want.

Theres many small things that are not as easy in windows and Mac and I know from using both alot more than Linux. Watching a dvd in Windows is a joke just because of all this licensing and copyright crap! If it wasnt for VLC player I would have never done it at all.... In Linux its dead easy. For iPod compatibility I noticed Banshee in the new release seems to pick up my iPhone automatically like iTunes.

If you are having problems you should post in the forums again and try the new release too, I find it better.

[dFlyer]

As I always say and OS is a personal choice. After 5 years, I'd say you were either happy with the OS or very slow with making a change. All software has problems, including MAC and WIN. If your not happy, find something that makes you happy. I've seen these rants over and over since the mid 90's. The most amazing thing is that everything seems to just get better over time. Also if there is something you need, just create it. Everything one needs to write a program is free under linux. Don't know how to program, learn. That is free also. Look around, you may find a program that will do what you want using linux, but you may have to pay for it. I use two paid for program. Bibble5 and LightZone 3.9. Sure Gimp and ufraw works, but just doesn't offer what I needed 100% of the time. Invest a little money in what you need and maybe there would be less complaining, and more productivity.

[neu5eeCh]

As I always say and OS is a personal choice. After 5 years, I'd say you were either happy with the OS or very slow with making a change. All software has problems, including MAC and WIN. If your not happy, find something that makes you happy.

The OP made some valid points. I can't tell what your point is, except the usual "love it or leave it" banality.


I've seen these rants over and over since the mid 90's. The most amazing thing is that everything seems to just get better over time. Also if there is something you need, just create it. Everything one needs to write a program is free under linux. Don't know how to program, learn. That is free also.

Right, and who needs carpenters, or electricians, or plumbers, or auto-mechanics or pediatricians. Figure it out yourself and stop whining about your roof, your bad circuit, your leaky copper or your kid with a broken finger. The information to fix this stuff is all out there. Don't know how to replace your muffler, learn. That is free also.

[reiki]

Appreciate the comments. ALL of 'em. As I said in the beginning. I'm not whining about linux as much as I'm trying to get an idea across. Ubuntu is my daily OS by choice. I would venture to say, however, that people expect more from their computer now than they did even 5 or 6 years ago. Some things that were not, perhaps, quite so commonplace 5 or 6 years ago are now taken for granted (iPod operability would be an example I think, even if I only got my own iPod about 4 months ago).

I think that Open Office (or Libre) does quite well as an office replacement for most people even if they need to share with others using Microsoft Office. Firefox is fine for most users and we also have chrome and opera just like windows users (I've not liked IE for anything in a long time). I actually like Evolution for email. These are very basic things and Ubuntu does them admirably well.

Over time I think we've seen a societal shift to a more media-centric culture. So people are EXPECTING to be able to do certain things in that vein.

Maybe I'm expecting too much. I am computer literate. Maybe even proficient. I have several VMs, programs that run in Wine if required and can boot natively into a Windows 7 64-bit if needed. I've also been known to *gasp* COMPILE things if I thought they'd be useful and fit a need. ( I compiled my first slackware kernel on a 386-66 and I think I started it at lunch time and hoped like heck it didn't error out before supper )

I just hate needing to do that. And most users won't do all of those things. They don't know how and aren't compelled to learn. They feel the tasks should be simple to accomplish. So instead of trying to instill thought on this subject, maybe I should just boot to Windows and say nothing. I mean when it comes down to it, the OS is just a tool like any other piece of software. But does saying nothing help anyone but myself?

"If the only tool you have is a hammer. Every job looks like a nail"

[Ken UK]

I agree with you, its one of the main problems with Linux but luckily Ubuntu is changing that big time! Im a newbie but Im getting the hang of using Linux because its much easier now than what it use to be and more compatible with things.

Its good to give constructive criticism on things because nothing is perfect. I can however remember hardcore linux users putting me off by making it seem like you had to master Linux or learn how to program just to get something working and thats not a good attitude to have towards new users, it will just put them off. They make it sound so easy but they forget what its like to be new, even typing something basic into a terminal is a big thing to many users.

Its like having to be a fully fledged mechanic just to drive a car, how would that be realistic in the real world! All you should need to know as a basic user is how to maintain it and the basics, not how to remove and rebuild the engine...

[Bart_D]

.....All you should need to know as a basic user is how to maintain it and the basics, not how to remove and rebuild the engine...

EXACTLY!

If we wanted Arch, we'd not be complaining about modifying the engine.

The problem is that we don't! The Ubuntu developers need to realize that. I'm sorry but, right now, Ubuntu is not up to par. While major improvs have been made, a LOT is still left to be done.

[Ken UK]

EXACTLY!

If we wanted Arch, we'd not be complaining about modifying the engine.

The problem is that we don't! The Ubuntu developers need to realize that. I'm sorry but, right now, Ubuntu is not up to par. While major improvs have been made, a LOT is still left to be done.

You have to be fair though they really are trying hard to make it happen, they have a mammoth task ahead of them and Ubuntu is really setting the standards making Linux a real contender. Alot of the other distros especially before recent where made by developers for developers, not for the non-technical minded who just want to use a computer for some basic tasks. Its not easy when they cant offer you the same support as the big, rich, powerful companies can.

The problem is not with Ubuntu but with Linux as a whole. This is why Im sticking it out to really help support it and see it through because otherwise if we dont support it we get stuck with some monopoly crap with no freedom.

[bluewanders]

You have to be fair though they really are trying hard to make it happen, they have a mammoth task ahead of them and Ubuntu is really setting the standards making Linux a real contender. Alot of the other distros especially before recent where made by developers for developers, not for the non-technical minded who just want to use a computer for some basic tasks. Its not easy when they cant offer you the same support as the big, rich, powerful companies can.

The problem is not with Ubuntu but with Linux as a whole. This is why Im sticking it out to really help support it and see it through because otherwise if we dont support it we get stuck with some monopoly crap with no freedom.


In some respects... I agree with pretty everyone who has posted in this thread. I started using Linux in one flavor or another 4 years ago. While I do say, yeah I want usability. At the same time, I dont want Linux to become something other than a power users OS. I dont want to be limited the way MAC and WIN users are limited. Although, I realize the only way to prevent unexpected breakage is to prevent users from doing things you dont want them to do or plugging in hardware you havent accounted for. Linux has for a long time been the place that programmers go... and in a lot of ways it is a very important part of my education. I wouldnt understand as much about my computers if I hadnt needed to learn about them to make my linux distributions work. Solving problems for myself taught me how to think outside the box... it makes me a more competent techie.

Why the hard push to compete? Why do we need to steal market share from Windows? What is in it for the developers we are pressuring to turn linux into yet another uneducated users platform that has back door power features? Open source has always been about having the drive to solve a problem that presents itself to you... when someone sees a problem, they write a patch for it or they fill a need with a program. What happens to the linux community when we do catch up to Windows and Mac? The solutions that are present are a distinct indication of the users who are developing the platform. When those people have a problem... they fix it... if it isnt perfect, someone adds to it...

I dont want to ramble... but I like my Linux to be what its always been... a hobbyist OS that pushes me to keep wanting to learn, expand, explore...

[RoflHaxBbq]

No offense or anything bro but if you can't fix those issues yourself, you're not trying hard enough.

[Rasa1111]

Not sure if you're aware of it..
But for the batch image needs..

you can install nautilus-image-converter for simple "right click-resize/batch resize"

Then just select any images you want, right click/resize/choose size/done.

[Cope57]

reiki, ask the questions, and someone will have some answers.

gThumb: is an advanced image viewer and browser. It has many useful features, such as file system browsing, slide show, image catalogs, web album creation, camera import, image CD burning, batch file operations and quick image editing features like transformation and color manipulation.

DeVeDe: is a program to create video DVDs, suitables for home players, from any number of video files, in any of the formats supported by Mplayer.

GTKPod: is a platform independent GUI for Apple's iPod using GTK2. It allows you to upload songs and play lists to your iPod. It supports ID3 tag editing, multiple charsets for ID3 tags, detects duplicate songs, allows off line modification of the database with later synchronization, and more.

[Johnsie]

I have almost 6 years of Ubuntu. It met my needs then, but I felt like things weren't moving forward as fast as they were on Windows and OSX. I felt like we were being left behind in terms of look and feel. Now I think we're trying to play catchup but focusing more on the look than the feel . Some things are being painted pretty and looking but not making the computer any more efficient. IMO 11.04 is Ubuntu Vista. It looks nice but is quite unusable.

[Ken UK]

For me one of the advantages of having alot of users is big proprietary software companies will start to suppose Ubuntu and I know that sounds like a bad thing but its annoying when everything is going fine until you actually need a piece of specialised software that is not supported at all and you know will very unlikely have an open source equivalent especially to the same quality level.

I think Ubuntu should be more user friendly without restrictions, its not about "oh well users mess about and break their systems" because then they need to learn or get help to fix them. Its about me trying to explain to a non-technical user who is really interested that I will need to A, B and C then if that works run D and check E then reboot and run F, they cant handle the complexity and cant understand why its so much effort for simple task. I think they should have a right and a real chance to be able to use an open OS. They should be able to take a LiveCD, run it, install Ubuntu on a standard machine (which is great now) and then configure the system without having to figure out what the terminal is. The terminal should be for advanced users only not the mandatory way!

Im lucky because all the computers I have installed it on have setup and run fine thank goodness but when I found out flash videos didn’t work very well especially in full screen on my parents computer I couldn’t get my dad to understand that its down to flash and the gfx card drivers, he cant see why its such a problem to watch a youtube video. Its stupid little things like that that let Linux down.

[lancest]

yes an average user shouldn’t have to mess about with the terminal

What happens when you've tried every GUI related trick to get Windows out of a frozen state and nothing works? Power- off button?

In Ubuntu likely you still have the terminal available for the reboot command and killing apps (Cntrl-Alt-F1-F6)

Just one of numerous other examples where the terminal is more efficient.

Average users would do well learning it.

[neu5eeCh]

Now I think we're trying to play catchup but focusing more on the look than the feel . Some things are being painted pretty and looking but not making the computer any more efficient. IMO 11.04 is Ubuntu Vista.

Bingo.

If MS can go from VISTA to Win7, maybe Canonical can pull off the same course correction.

[Ken UK]

What happens when you've tried every GUI related trick to get Windows out of a frozen state and nothing works? Power- off button?

In Ubuntu likely you still have the terminal available for the reboot command and killing apps (Cntrl-Alt-F1-F6)

Just one of numerous other examples where the terminal is more efficient.

Average users would do well learning it.

Thanks for that I will make a note of it for next time Ubuntu freezes up or something similar.

PS I just pressed those keys and didn’t know how to get back lol
Luckily I pressed Cntrl-Alt-F1-F7 and it worked :D Scared me then haha

What do you do once you are in there though? is there any useful commands to know?

[neu5eeCh]

What happens when you've tried every GUI related trick to get Windows out of a frozen state and nothing works? Power- off button?

Well... yeah... just like in Ubuntu.

I've had to use that power off button in both my Ubuntu laptops during this past week, both locked to a fare-thee-well.

[el_koraco]

Sometimes it gets so locked down that even if you manage to get to tty and kill -9 a process, you still can't get back to X. :D

[Ichtyandr]

Its fine you can still use Gnome2 now.
BUT I wonder as the gnome people are now doing gnome3 and stopped developing 2, how long will ubuntu stick with gnome2 as the base?
If they ditch it there will be no benefiting from gnome team's contributions any more.
So unity turns out to be not unity but rather separation.
So far ubuntu does a great job, base from debian gnu/linux, desktop from gnome, nice integrations and addons. But without desktop support from gnome team who will probably not look back to ubuntu needs any more, where will it end up?

[walt.smith1960]

Bingo.

If MS can go from VISTA to Win7, maybe Canonical can pull off the same course correction.

but do it in less than 3 years or whatever it was.

[Ken UK]

Bingo.

If MS can go from VISTA to Win7, maybe Canonical can pull off the same course correction.

You cant compare this to Windows Vista/7!

Windows Vista didn’t just fail because the GUI wasn’t very good or people didnt like it, it was a piece of crap in everyway! Whats wrong with 11.04? If you dont like Unity or think its unstable etc. Thats just the UI not the whole OS! And thus you can change it to classic and fixed!

[neu5eeCh]

You cant compare this to Windows Vista/7

:) Oh yes I can; and I did.

[Bart_D]

For me one of the advantages of having alot of users is big proprietary software companies will start to suppose Ubuntu and I know that sounds like a bad thing but its annoying when everything is going fine until you actually need a piece of specialised software that is not supported at all and you know will very unlikely have an open source equivalent especially to the same quality level.

I think Ubuntu should be more user friendly without restrictions, its not about "oh well users mess about and break their systems" because then they need to learn or get help to fix them. Its about me trying to explain to a non-technical user who is really interested that I will need to A, B and C then if that works run D and check E then reboot and run F, they cant handle the complexity and cant understand why its so much effort for simple task. I think they should have a right and a real chance to be able to use an open OS. They should be able to take a LiveCD, run it, install Ubuntu on a standard machine (which is great now) and then configure the system without having to figure out what the terminal is. The terminal should be for advanced users only not the mandatory way!

Im lucky because all the computers I have installed it on have setup and run fine thank goodness but when I found out flash videos didn’t work very well especially in full screen on my parents computer I couldn’t get my dad to understand that its down to flash and the gfx card drivers, he cant see why its such a problem to watch a youtube video. Its stupid little things like that that let Linux down.

Well said, good sir! Well said!

If the OP can't perform the basic tasks he/she has listed, then how can one "leave" this as is for a non-technical user? Quite frankly, it is beyond me!

Anyways, improvements(that have NOTHING to do with the GUI) are NEEDED. For the next version, they should get back to that. I'll give them a pass for 11.04....it's a new GUI for Ubuntu and some growing pains have to be overcome...hopefully most of them have been addressed and the remaining few will be tackled in the next release. Now(for the next realse, that is) it's time to fix those under-the-hood problems that just seem to have been ignored.

Oh, and as for the people saying "You need to search(online) HARDER to find a solution to your basic tasks", it is exactly THAT kind of thinking/approach that I HOPE the developers do NOT have/take. i-Pod synchronization! Making a movie? HUH! You gotta be kidding me, my man! These HAVE/MUST BE click-click-click processes that can be completed with minimal fuss and WITHOUT the need for a web browser.

[Ken UK]

Well said, good sir! Well said!

If the OP can't perform the basic tasks he/she has listed, then how can one "leave" this as is for a non-technical user? Quite frankly, it is beyond me!

Anyways, improvements(that have NOTHING to do with the GUI) are NEEDED. For the next version, they should get back to that. I'll give them a pass for 11.04....it's a new GUI for Ubuntu and some growing pains have to be overcome...hopefully most of them have been addressed and the remaining few will be tackled in the next release. Now(for the next realse, that is) it's time to fix those under-the-hood problems that just seem to have been ignored.

Oh, and as for the people saying "You need to search(online) HARDER to find a solution to your basic tasks", it is exactly THAT kind of thinking/approach that I HOPE the developers do NOT have/take. i-Pod synchronization! Making a movie? HUH! You gotta be kidding me, my man! These HAVE/MUST BE click-click-click processes that can be completed with minimal fuss and WITHOUT the need for a web browser.

Thanks :)

I've not really tried it because I have a Macbook to sync my iPhone but Banshee seemed to pickup all the music and playlists on my phone. I know it doesnt have the capabilities of iTunes but its a start right?

For making movies your best to look at kdenlive, I've heard so much about it and it looks pretty good.

[aaaantoine]

You cant compare this to Windows Vista/7!

Windows Vista didn’t just fail because the GUI wasn’t very good or people didnt like it, it was a piece of crap in everyway! Whats wrong with 11.04? If you dont like Unity or think its unstable etc. Thats just the UI not the whole OS! And thus you can change it to classic and fixed!

For all the flack that Vista gets, it really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. In fact, I don't really understand why 7 gets so much praise by comparison, as it's essentially Vista plus some polish.