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coffee412
April 19th, 2011, 02:24 PM
I wanted to ask the Ubuntu community a few basic business questions. I am starting a small business that repairs systems and will be offering Ubuntu as an alternative to windows. Iam sure there are others out there like me and just wanted to pick your brains on your thoughts on these questions:

1. I always get the feeling that "I cant charge the customer for this problem because its a bug in Ubuntu ect..." at what point do you charge for correcting a problem? As an example, An update comes thru and it borks the video (nvidia update). Charge the customer for a service call? Whats your policies on performing "free-gratis" work for customers?

2. Do you advertise Ubuntu in your advertising ads? If so do you need specific permission and how did you get it?

3. Do you find Ubuntu easier to work with on service calls than windows?

4. Would you be interested in a forum for small business owners that support ubuntu to share marketing, Technical, and basic business tips? A forum for sharing ideas to promote Ubuntu or other distros and to help one another.

Thanks!

coffee :D

Grenage
April 19th, 2011, 02:34 PM
I always get the feeling that "I cant charge the customer for this problem because its a bug in Ubuntu ect..." at what point do you charge for correcting a problem? As an example, An update comes thru and it borks the video (nvidia update). Charge the customer for a service call? Whats your policies on performing "free-gratis" work for customers?

No - you're a business. You didn't make Ubuntu, and unless you provided some sort of guarantee, you're not responsible for it breaking. Good service can lead to a good business, but don't become a pal, doing free work - draw the line.


Do you advertise Ubuntu in your advertising ads? If so do you need specific permission and how did you get it?

I don't believe you need permission to advertise Ubuntu, just as you don't need permission to distribute it. Well, the permission has already been given.


Do you find Ubuntu easier to work with on service calls than windows?

I have helped others with Linux issues, and I can't say I find it any easier or more difficult. They are both resilient systems.

pookiebear
April 19th, 2011, 03:15 PM
1. You charge for your time. Whatever it is you end up doing. Your time has a value. Hard part is figuring out the value. Plumber charges for time. Electrician charges for time. Then they have a markup on parts. You are no different.
The beauty is that one of the products you are selling (ubuntu) is free. So is the office product (OOo). So there is value there compared to the strictly Windows shops.

4. I would sign up for that forum.

andrewabc
April 19th, 2011, 03:18 PM
I wouldn't cold turkey switch customers from windows to ubuntu. It won't work.
Start by switching all the programs to ones that are used in ubuntu(linux)
msoffice->libreoffice
WMP->VLC
IE->Firefox
etc.

Then once they get used to the apps the switch is easier.

Or dualboot. If they already paid for windows, no problem keeping it installed in case they need it.

rg4w
April 19th, 2011, 03:54 PM
I don't do system repair, but as the owner of a small custom development shop much of what you wrote applies here too.

1.Your time is valuable. Bill all time at your customary rate. All OSes ship with thousands of known bugs, and they are not of our making. Dealing with them is part of the business.

2. Most of the software I develop for clients is cross-platform (Mac and Win), and I encourage clients to consider Linux also where their app has a good fit for this market. In those cases I strongly suggest we use Ubuntu and Fedora as our two primary target systems, since if we can run an app smoothly on both of those we'll likely cover most other popular distros as well. I make regular use of the Ubuntu brand in marketing and client materials, and in the context I'm using it in (to promote adoption) I believe no further permissions are required.

3. Personally I do find Ubuntu both easier and more fun to develop on than Windows, in large part because the security regimen I follow to maintain airtight Win systems requires more time and attention than Linux.

4. Yes, I would participate in a forum for small businesses who support Linux systems for their clients.

s3a
April 19th, 2011, 04:05 PM
I would only offer Ubuntu LTS releases and you are not responsible for any flaws that are not of your doing.

MBybee
April 19th, 2011, 04:11 PM
I would only offer Ubuntu LTS releases and you are not responsible for any flaws that are not of your doing.

I don't know if I wouldn't *offer* alternatives, but I would certainly only recommend LTS versions. Most people who would consume such a service wouldn't want excessive patching and are unlikely to upgrade an OS without upgrading the entire machine.

I support (unofficially) quite a few people like this, and typically they are using Ubuntu Studio or Ubuntu LTS (depending on savvy and focus)

Docaltmed
April 19th, 2011, 04:15 PM
Just some thoughts from a small businessman who converted his entire business to run on Ubuntu, but who is not in a technical field (I'm a doctor).

-- Converting an entire business to Ubuntu, even a very small one like mine, is no small feat, and there must be absolute, 100% commitment from top management. Otherwise it will fail.

--Most problems I can fix myself, because I'm decently technically savvy and I like working with computers. However, the times I've used a hired gun, what I have wanted most was a rapid response, clearly knowledgeable and who documented his work for me. Cost, yeah, sure, I'm cost-sensitive. But when I'm in trouble, I'M IN TROUBLE, and the guy who gets me out of the hole fastest wins. If it costs me a little bit extra, that's ok. Time is money to me, too, so I'm happy to cough up a bit more.

--Be nice to my staff. Aside from fixing my problem fast, that's the smartest thing you can do. Otherwise, invoices end up at the bottom of piles, calls don't get through to me, you know the story.

-- Know Your Stuff. Any small businessman who has made it through the end of the decade in one piece ain't nobody's dummy, and can smell a BS line a mile away. Try to horse me and I'll hang up on you. But if you know what you're doing, I'll smell it and hire you.

SeijiSensei
April 19th, 2011, 04:34 PM
Do you advertise Ubuntu in your advertising ads? If so do you need specific permission and how did you get it?

Read this: http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy

Basically you need permission from Canonical to use any of its trademarks for commercial purposes. I'd show this to your attorney as well.

coffee412
April 19th, 2011, 05:02 PM
Hello all,

I want to thank everyone for their great replies. Im always in the market to add more wisdom to my brain :D.

I m going to look into a forum for small / beginner business owners. I think it would be a great help as everyone could share ideas, hints, advice with each other and generally support each other in some way or another. Its going to take a bit to do as Rome was not built in a day you know :D.

Once again, Thank you to everyone that posted so far. If you have ideas for a forum I would love to get your input as well. I feel that if I actually did take the time to pull this off I want it to be worth it.

coffee

Derxst
April 19th, 2011, 05:58 PM
Baby steps!

For my customers, I generally suggest an Ubuntu Server for file sharing.

Then I have the discussion about Microsoft Office. I introduce them to OpenOffice. Once they are using OpenOffice and have a taste of not having to spend a bunch on software, it makes the discussion about having Ubuntu on the desktop a lot easier.

Don't pound them over the head with Ubuntu. For most people, computers are a necessary evil. They must have them to perform their work. They do not care what the OS is.

Build trust with your clients, then they will listen completely to what you have to say.

Docaltmed
April 19th, 2011, 07:28 PM
They do not care what the OS is.



In a fair number of cases, they don't even know what an OS is! I can't tell you how many people I've had a conversation with that goes something like this:

ME: Yup, just switched every computer in the office to Ubuntu. Working great!

THEM: What's Ubuntu?

ME: Good question -- it's an operating system, like Windows.

THEM: So, you mean, it's Microsoft?

ME: No, no. It's not from Microsoft. It's a free operating system, you just install it onto your computer.

THEM: Oh, I get it! It's like Word!

ME: No, it's the software that allows applications like Word to run. The operating system, it talks directly to the computer hardware.

THEM: Oh, sure. You mean Explorer.

ME: Well, err, not really. It's not important though, the important thing is that it works, right?

ikt
April 19th, 2011, 08:08 PM
In a fair number of cases, they don't even know what an OS is!

And most of them don't want to know, blue E is the internet, Email is the mail icon, hurray! I'm computers!

I'm hesitant to move people from Windows XP to Windows 7 let alone onto Ubuntu, good luck op, you're going to need it. :/

Tom Collier
April 19th, 2011, 08:27 PM
1. Work for free as a volunteer, or
2. Work for a calculated hourly rate that covers all your costs and includes a markup for profit, but
3. Never work for cheap.

++ all the suggestions to start slow by suggesting (and demonstrating) open source application replacements, then talk moving to an open source OS.

Above all, remember to keep most things at the level of the clerk who, when something goes wrong with her computer, folds her hands in her lap and waits for someone to rescue her. True story: employee couldn't remember how to maximize a window, called $125/hr tech support for help.

pookiebear
April 19th, 2011, 09:05 PM
Above all, remember to keep most things at the level of the clerk who, when something goes wrong with her computer, folds her hands in her lap and waits for someone to rescue her. True story: employee couldn't remember how to maximize a window, called $125/hr tech support for help.

Taken that call a bunch. or similar. First time is free, second time I charge half hour. 3rd or 4th time I call their boss and recommend some training... on a side note I can guarantee that user has the words "computer proficient" on their resume though. That bugs me.

rg4w
April 20th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Read this: http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy

Basically you need permission from Canonical to use any of its trademarks for commercial purposes. I'd show this to your attorney as well.
That was a good reminder, prompting me to write to the contact on that page.

Really great service, I must say: I got my reply in under 18 hours, and after reviewing my stated intentions for using their mark only to promote Ubuntu and the materials at my site, they gave me explicit approval to continue using their trademark as I have been.

Lesson learned: good idea to check with the mark owner, and in my own experience they were very prompt and helpful.

coffee412
April 20th, 2011, 06:22 PM
good luck op, you're going to need it. :/

I dont need your luck. YOu see, Unskilled non thinking people depend on luck. I have almost 20 years experience in I.T. If you really want to depend on luck your not going to make it.

Im also not implying that I want to switch over all customers to Ubuntu or other linuxes. What I am saying is that some are ripe for it and others are not. It all depends.

I have done VERY well with select customers moving them to Ubuntu. You see, I do my homework and size up the customer before I even mention something like that. They are very happy. When they are happy they have no problem paying the bill.

Now, I havent had a chance to read the other posts as I have some service calls to run right now. But I will tonite.

As always, Thanks to everyone that has added value to the Orig. Post. Ill be back tonite to catch up and share some more ideas.

coffee:D

ikt
April 21st, 2011, 12:27 PM
I dont need your luck. YOu see, Unskilled non
thinking people depend on luck.

Not at all, and I wonder where you got "Unskilled non thinking people depend on luck" from, since it's pretty much the exact opposite, we don't solely rely on luck of course, but skill, experience, luck and effort all generally contribute to the success or lack of success of a project.

People who aren't relying on a little bit of luck usually aren't doing anything interesting, and are usually unskilled, non-thinkers travelling the road well travelled.

For example in many critical areas luck is depended upon, one big one I can think of is F1 racing! You can't control a car in front having a small amount of petrol leak onto the road which causes your car to slip and crash, you simply race your heart out and hope everything runs really well.

You can minimise the chances of something bad happening, but at the end of the day you're going to need some luck to win a race.


I have almost 20 years experience in I.T. If you really want to depend on luck your not going to make it.

That depends, is it worth pushing a project, taking some chances, and possibly striking gold? or is it better to sell potatoes?

To talk about something more relevent, I'd like to know just how much luck Mr. Shuttleworth is relying on right now.

How many profitable Linux Desktop focused distro's are there?

0.

Yet here he is banking heavily on this one, lets give him good luck :P

Have fun :)

coffee412
April 21st, 2011, 02:25 PM
I wonder where you got "Unskilled non thinking people depend on luck" from

First, I want to thank you for replying. This is getting off subject so I will not spend a great deal of time on it. But I also agree to dissagree. No bad feelings :P

My example of depending on luck:

I go to the gambling boat in Chicago and play 21. One person will say it is the luck of the cards or where you sit. But in reality it is mearly how the cards are positioned in the deck. I have little experience of the 21 (blackjack) card game like many and thus will depend on luck. However, If I were one that could count cards my chances are much greater of winning thru my knowledge of what cards have already been played. So, Having knowledge trumps any notion of luck.

An unskilled technician shows up to repair a problem that he has never seen before with a server. He will either proceed to investigate the problem and research an answer or he will try things that "might work" - thus depending on luck.

Im sure luck has its place. You know, Iam reminded of a saying my father taught me - " The harder I work the luckier I get". To me it means its thru hard work we get our breaks.

Thanks,

coffee

coffee412
April 21st, 2011, 02:33 PM
Just wanted to add for everyone following this post that I will be looking into some ideas on starting a site or forum or whatever over the weekend.

I think it should be a meeting ground of like minded people looking to or running a small business that can share ideas, insights, and help. Being able to focus on achieving your goals with like minded people would be a great benefit for everyone involved. Knowing the best way to advertise, Pitfalls, Service call experiences and what you did to overcome them and so on.

Once again, Thank you for everyone following and posting to this thread.

coffee

wrtpeeps
April 21st, 2011, 02:39 PM
If you do switch them over I would make it very clear that future support will be billed and you won't be answering their "how do I..." emails for free.