Spyware and logging

[teaker1s]

As a long term user, GNOME Zeitgeist is in my opinion invasive and something I would expect from a "secret service/police state"

How can something that logs all user activity and doesn't seem to have an easy interface by default to control behaviour not be invasive.


The current user interfaces for Zeitgeist do not give users a hint of the real power which lies dormant under the surface. Our current goal is to index as much information from as many different sources as fast as we can. Once that’s done, it’ll be easy to build exciting new user interfaces which pull information out of Zeitgeist’s database and display it to users in all sorts of innovative ways. For example, it should be possible to let users build their own interfaces where they define what documents they want to see and how they want those documents to be organized. For example, one recent mockup lets users build custom “Smart Feeds” which aggregate together all sorts of different files according to user-defined filters.

One of the key concepts in Zeitgeist is that users care about “Documents” and not “Files.” In other words, users don’t want to be bothered with the distinction between documents that are on their computer (files) and documents that aren’t on their computer. Therefore, we have plans to index documents from online sources such as Google Documents, Flickr, and Launchpad. In a world where everything is online, there’s no reason why file managers should focus only on local files!

The biggest question that we’re currently trying to answer is what’s next. We’re already planning on adding on support for optionally using Tracker or CouchDB as a backend in place of our own database. The aforementioned “Smart Feeds” are also on the development map along with UbuntuOne integration, LAN powered “Shared Feeds,” and support for associating people with documents. However, we’re a versatile bunch and after that anything is possible.

Removed the spyware from my machines:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Who benefits from this other than surveillance spying on computer use? and where are the controls one would expect

[NFblaze]

Im not upgrading beyond Gnome 2.32 anyway. When it reaches end of life. I'll abandon ship for whatever is around most likely. I do not like the path Gnome is traveling.

[Paul820]

Thanks for the heads-up, i have just removed all traces of it.

Description from synaptic:

Zeitgeist is a service which logs the user's activities and events (files
opened, websites visited, conversations hold with other people, etc.) and
makes the relevant information available to other applications.

Logs files opened, websites visited etc...=;[-X

The worst one is "conversations held with other people" :x

Call me paranoid, but this is the reason i left Windows for Ubuntu.

[Jerry N]

I just googled that thing - sounds like a classic keylogger to me!
Sony got in a good bit of trouble for including something like that in their music CDs a few years ago.

What a cr*ppy idea!

Jerry

[3rdalbum]

It's not a "keylogger" and it doesn't log "all activity". It notes what files you have opened and when, but not their contents. It notes who you talked to and when, not what was said. Your local Zeitgeist is not accessible from the Internet, only on your local user account on your own computer.

If you want to know what it has logged, you can use Gnome Activity Journal.

It's insulting and extremely offensive to the Zeigeist developers to imply that they're writing malicious software. If you choose not to use it, then go ahead - but don't slander these people.

[wolfen69]

It's not a "keylogger" and it doesn't log "all activity". It notes what files you have opened and when, but not their contents. It notes who you talked to and when, not what was said. Your local Zeitgeist is not accessible from the Internet, only on your local user account on your own computer.

If you want to know what it has logged, you can use Gnome Activity Journal.

It's insulting and extremely offensive to the Zeigeist developers to imply that they're writing malicious software. If you choose not to use it, then go ahead - but don't slander these people.

I agree. If it was actually something evil that could do real harm, every linux and technology website would be abuzz with it. I can't believe people think this to be the case. Do you really believe Shuttleworth would let this happen? Wow.


http://assets.knowyourmeme.com/i/5663/original/doublefacepalm.jpg

This thread should be closed on the grounds that it is stirring up trouble for no good reason.

[XubuRoxMySox]

Wow. It doesn't make the information available to the Computer Police, it makes the information available to other applications, so that they "learn" what your preferences and habits are, so they can work better for you. It's no more malicious than saving your bookmarks or address book.

-Robin

[Paul820]

Ok, maybe i should have looked into it a bit more before jumping to conclusions. My apologies to the Zeitgeist team for any offence caused. :oops:

[madmax75]

Also, this:

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/zeitgeist-is-finally-getting-options-to.html


Zeitgeist is finally getting a long awaited feature: deleting part of the Zeitgeist history (last hour, day or week and so on), blacklisting an application, a file type or a folder. That means you'll be able to blacklist your "highly confidential" (read: porn) files from ever showing up in any application that uses Zeitgeist (Unity, Synapse and so on).

So you will be able to control what sort of information Zeitgeist shares with other apps.

[teaker1s]

http://gnome.mirocommunity.org/video/233/thorsten-prante-gnome-zeitgeis

Cart before horse, this should have been offered as an option and had an interface available for control before installing.

Forgive me if I don't take kindly to activity logging without explicit consent.

I take a similar view to google android phones logging router mac and gps locations.

Something prominent that said it was available and would you like to use it and a session setting to clear on shut down would be good.

It genuinely concerns me that people in not so free parts of the world could risk their safety without knowing it

I'm sure Mark Shuttleworth has broad shoulders and will take the criticism as constructive.

[Derxst]

http://gnome.mirocommunity.org/video/233/thorsten-prante-gnome-zeitgeis

Cart before horse, this should have been offered as an option and had an interface available for control before installing.

Forgive me if I don't take kindly to activity logging without explicit consent.

I take a similar view to google android phones logging router mac and gps locations.

Something prominent that said it was available and would you like to use it and a session setting to clear on shut down would be good.

It genuinely concerns me that people in not so free parts of the world could risk their safety without knowing it

I'm sure Mark Shuttleworth has broad shoulders and will take the criticism as constructive.

In one form or another, everything is logged. Your ISP has a log of what IP you used at any given time.

[Sef]

Moved to Community Cafe.

[screaminj3sus]

this thread is absurd

[smellyman]

http://gnome.mirocommunity.org/video/233/thorsten-prante-gnome-zeitgeis

Cart before horse, this should have been offered as an option and had an interface available for control before installing.

Forgive me if I don't take kindly to activity logging without explicit consent.

I take a similar view to google android phones logging router mac and gps locations.

Something prominent that said it was available and would you like to use it and a session setting to clear on shut down would be good.

It genuinely concerns me that people in not so free parts of the world could risk their safety without knowing it

I'm sure Mark Shuttleworth has broad shoulders and will take the criticism as constructive.

better get rid of /var/log too.


this thread is absurd

agreed

[madmax75]

I'm sure Mark Shuttleworth has broad shoulders and will take the criticism as constructive.

How exactly is Mark Shuttleworth responsible for Zeitgeist? :confused:

And I don't get the hysteria. I find that Zeitgeist could actually be quite a useful feature for the user.

Where does it say that it will send info about everything you do to The Generic Sinister Government Spy Agency For The Detriment Of Free Citizens or to An Evil Corporation Which Is After Your Money And Liberty?

Yeah, obviously Zeitgeist could potentially be a double-edged sword, but isn't everything like that in this world? Everything can be used for both good and evil purposes.

[3rdalbum]

Something prominent that said it was available and would you like to use it and a session setting to clear on shut down would be good.

It genuinely concerns me that people in not so free parts of the world could risk their safety without knowing it

Sorry, I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.

Removing the zeitgeist on shutdown defeats the purpose of it.

Secondly, people in not-so-free parts of the world are not going to be incriminated by "file was opened for 15 minutes on Wednesday", which is these sort of information Zeitgeist keeps. Do you get it? Zeitgeist tells programs that files/programs were opened and that conversations were had, NOT the contents of the files or conversations.

And if you are in a non-free country, just encrypt your home directory and nothing on your computer can tell tales.

[santaslittlehelper]

https://live.gnome.org/GNOME3Myths
Does it even exist?

[teaker1s]

yes

Zeitgeist is a service which logs the user's activities and events (files
opened, websites visited, conversations hold with other people, etc.) and
makes the relevant information available to other applications.

It serves as a comprehensive activity log and also makes it possible to
determine relationships between items based on usage patterns.

This metapackage depends on the Zeitgeist engine and a set of packages
(such as data providers) commonly used together with it.

Canonical provides critical updates for zeitgeist until April 2012.

Check with synaptic it is a main package and did not have a functional control panel installed by default.

Installing gui provided no delete feature-terminal to delete history and provided no security from differing users from what I could see.

http://wiki.zeitgeist-project.com/Getting_Started


You might hear FUD that Zeitgeist is a malware/spyware which tracks your activities. This is not a definition of malware/spyware. They record their activity, steal your data without your approval and sneak into the system without system. They have a desructive intention.

Contrast this with zeitgeist, it records events so that it can be used for constructive purposes. It's like nuclear technology. Use it constructivly, it will benefit mankind, use it destructivly and you will be harmed.

One concern people raise is that if some malware is installed, then it can steal the zeitgeist data. In this scenario, if a malware is installed, then you are at a bigger risk than just getting your zeitgeist data stolen. Your pidgin passwords are stored in plain text in your home directory. Your browser's history is very easily accessible. If you have not set the master password in Firefox, then even your passwords are available to the malware.


Turn it another way a feature that needs to be optional at best

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/privacy-settings-are-coming-to-zeitgeist/

[wi0]

It's not a "keylogger" and it doesn't log "all activity". It notes what files you have opened and when, but not their contents. It notes who you talked to and when, not what was said. Your local Zeitgeist is not accessible from the Internet, only on your local user account on your own computer.

If you want to know what it has logged, you can use Gnome Activity Journal.

It's insulting and extremely offensive to the Zeigeist developers to imply that they're writing malicious software. If you choose not to use it, then go ahead - but don't slander these people.

Sure, activity logger as mentioned in the OP would be more precise than keylogger.

The notion that criticism should be avoided lest someone gets offended, might be popular with the ridiculous ideology that is "political correctness", but that doesn't mean it holds any water. At the same time, criticism, is not the same as indiscriminate slander. Most of this thread is indeed criticism, without an adequate counter argument.


I agree. If it was actually something evil that could do real harm, every linux and technology website would be abuzz with it. I can't believe people think this to be the case. Do you really believe Shuttleworth would let this happen? Wow.


This thread should be closed on the grounds that it is stirring up trouble for no good reason.

Qouted post should be deleted on the grounds that it does nothing to add to the discussion, and is nothing more than an immature and inane response.

See? Let's not allow criticism. In any direction.

This could do real harm as others have mentioned with the "technology can be used for good or bad". Which I agree with, by the way.

Also, this:

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/zeitgeist-is-finally-getting-options-to.html



So you will be able to control what sort of information Zeitgeist shares with other apps.
Zeitgeist is integrated and functioning, were is this control?


In one form or another, everything is logged. Your ISP has a log of what IP you used at any given time.
How does an ISP having a log of IPs translate to "everything"?

this thread is absurd
Brilliant. See above.


While the intentions of everyone involved in creating and adopting Zeitgeist might be pure, that doesn't mean that they are not missing some things in their pursuit of whatever user experience ideology they adopt. See Unity.

http://askubuntu.com/questions/21417/temporarily-stopping-zeitgeist

[Paqman]

In one form or another, everything is logged.

Indeed. Logging the activity of the users, processes and connections is a core function of the OS.

[FlameReaper]

*cough* dmesg. *cough*

Also.


cat /var/log/syslog

Oh no!

[yetiman64]

By putting a * in the blacklist path in Activity Journal can give an otherwise useful feature a good dose of permanent amnesia.

If anyone is worried about it see --here-- (http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/things-to-tweak-fix-after-installing.html) and look under the section titled,

Is Dash displaying your hidden / private files or your porn?The information here also shows how to clear the history that is already recorded.

I tested this out with Zeitgeist and it didn't record any files opened anywhere and the Activity Journal was cleared.

The only thing to ever show up in Dash after using this was the contents of the Downloads folder (not a history of opened files though).

this thread is absurdAgreed, Total non issue imo.

[Retlol]

This thread is funny.

Omg my computer stores my information. Spyware !!!!!

I'm simplifying, but still.

[yetiman64]

This thread is funny.

Omg my computer stores my information. Spyware !!!!!

I'm simplifying, but still.

ROTFL ! :lolflag: So well put. :popcorn:

[madmax75]

Zeitgeist is integrated and functioning, were is this control?


Like the article said, the Zeitgeist Global Privacy is "currently in development".

What I've heard, you can already blacklist folders and files through the Activity Journal and clear out the recently used files list.

Still, I fail to see where exactly is the problem with Zeitgeist. I find it to be a useful feature for the user.

[OM NOM NOM]

Like the article said, the Zeitgeist Global Privacy is "currently in development".

What I've heard, you can already blacklist folders and files through the Activity Journal and clear out the recently used files list.

Still, I fail to see where exactly is the problem with Zeitgeist. I find it to be a useful feature for the user.

The problem is this: If there is a program logging activities and someone doesnt know about it or have the right to refuse it or monior it in some way that individual could find themselves in danger.

Here's an example: User lives in a country that doesnt enjoy freedom of speech. User is not technically savvy but is able to get a computer with Ubuntu on it. User communictes to other users through IM sensitive information. Even though the users' conversation isn't logged the information is there that they TALKED to someone who could be on a gov't "watch list". In many countries that's enough "evidence" for a firing squad. all too convenient to find said activity in one log.

The problem isn't with Zeitgeist itself, it's the fact that there is extremely limited information about it out there and users were not given the option to control it. Hell I didn't even know about it until I stumbled across a forum post recently and I've been running Ubuntu for years. And I moved over from windows because I couldn't stand the policy of WGA and having to ask permission to change components on my computer.

[OM NOM NOM]

And as a follow-up: What other commercial OSes log the stuff Zeitgiest does by default in the backgroud? I'm not being sarcastic I literally have not heard of anything like it in Windows, Mac or any other OS before.