Ubuntu/Canocical Ltd. revenue

[29much]

According to distrowatch.com (http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major) now ubuntu is " the most popular desktop Linux distribution".

I witnessed the hard time of Linux, the difficulty to adapt with Linux, from SSH log in terminal console to unfriendly GNOME/KDE desktop environment in Red Hat/Mandrake Linux distro at the time. But I also witnessed the appearance of Ubuntu boost the usage of Linux in desktop computer. I know what it's feel like, the different between old desktop environment with the current status. From my experience, people migrate to Linux because of two thing, the user friendly desktop environment and the deployment ready to use with credible application to replace commonly software used in MS-OS. Somehow, Ubuntu hit in those point and boost up the popularity of Linux.

So right now is a good time for us, when Linux very popular and beat up proprietary OS. I think the current hero right now, the darling of free and open source community is Android. Android manage to enter consumerism market and make people who even do not know open-source saying it's name. That's because Android is now synonym with cool and techno-savvy gadget.

After done some research in Google, I feel worried about the future of Ubuntu/Canonical Ltd. How Ubuntu/Canonical Ltd. will survive years to come. I can not find clear business plan or article that assure that Ubuntu or Canonical Ltd. will gain revenue years to come. Currently I'm aware that Canonical Ltd. has $30 million revenue, but is that enough to beat up the devil?

So my question is How Ubuntu/Canonical Ltd. can gain revenue or financial support in order to keep all the wonderful thing about Ubuntu to keep going on. Will Ubuntu community open up for donation or will Canonical Ltd. find revenue source in consumerism market.

I think it is important for open source product to gain market in consumerism market. Think about Android, if Google do not tap in to the current Android market, all the money can go to the evils who will finance the enemy of free and open source OS/software.

[uRock]

Not a support request.

Moved to the Cafe.

[jerenept]

negative. as in, they're losing money.

[Simian Man]

So my question is How Ubuntu/Canonical Ltd. can gain revenue or financial support in order to keep all the wonderful thing about Ubuntu to keep going on. Will Ubuntu community open up for donation or will Canonical Ltd. find revenue source in consumerism market.

First they take code written by others and packaged by others. Then they make a few cosmetic changes, market it, and...still lose money.

[KiwiNZ]

First they take code written by others and packaged by others. Then they make a few cosmetic changes, market it, and...still lose money.

Isn't this an Open source market ? or do you want it to be Closed source?

[Paqman]

First they take code written by others and packaged by others.

Almost every project does this. That's what the concept of upstream/downstream is all about.

[29much]

First they take code written by others and packaged by others. Then they make a few cosmetic changes, market it, and...still lose money.

What do you mean by marketing it? I don't see any market product of Ubuntu. Canonical Ltd. provide service, perhaps, but I do not see market product that's run Ubuntu. I even never encounter person, company, group of people that buy or use Canonical Ltd. service.

If they secure a contract that Hardware manufacture will deploy they product with Ubuntu as the primary OS, then I will be glad. It doesn't have to be Ubuntu, any free-opens source choice is fine. But Canonical is not Novell, Inc. or Red Hat, Inc. It's more like and old concept of Linux company, I could not even remember the name because they all dead, leaving the sole survivor Red Hat, Inc. Canonical can not take the road of Red Hat, it will be like history repeating it self. We already secure the future of Linux in server arena, we also have a bright future in Mobile device and Tablet device but after decade of war, will we still loss in desktop arena?

Some group of free-open source people need to make revenue from distributing a friendly use desktop Linux operating system. You can say anything about Ubuntu, but the fact is Ubuntu is number one right now and Ubuntu help catapult the popularity of Linux.

I use several Linux Distribution. Each of them for certain advantage. CentOS for set and forget server, Debian for old computer, Slackware for even much more old machine, openSUSE for windows oriented user in my lab, and if my lab ready to move entirely to Linux, I will recommended Scientific Linux. But for first time Linux users, I install Ubuntu in their workstation. It's easy to deploy, a lot of package, prettier and faster that win7. User in my lab adapt more quickly with Ubuntu and over the time they forget they are using Linux.

If Canonical stop the support that make Ubuntu like this, then someone must taking over. There for I concern about Ubuntu/Canonical Ltd. revenue.

[RiceMonster]

What do you mean by marketing it? I don't see any market product of Ubuntu. Canonical Ltd. provide service, perhaps, but I do not see market product that's run Ubuntu. I even never encounter person, company, group of people that buy or use Canonical Ltd. service.

Marketing: the commercial processes involved in promoting and selling and distributing a product or service

It does not necessarily mean being successful or having it on "market products" to classify as marketing.

[29much]

It does not necessarily mean being successful or having it on "market products" to classify as marketing.

So it's mean Canonical do not have successful market product? What is their market product actually, is there any business article review about this?

Let say that if someday Canonical will be dying, will Ubuntu die with it? Does Ubuntu Community ready for this scenario or does any other distro ready to do what Ubuntu capable to do right now, because of the way Canonical approach Linux desktop and successful making Linux popular?

[KiwiNZ]

What do you mean by marketing it? I don't see any market product of Ubuntu. Canonical Ltd. provide service, perhaps, but I do not see market product that's run Ubuntu. I even never encounter person, company, group of people that buy or use Canonical Ltd. service.

If they secure a contract that Hardware manufacture will deploy they product with Ubuntu as the primary OS, then I will be glad. It doesn't have to be Ubuntu, any free-opens source choice is fine. But Canonical is not Novell, Inc. or Red Hat, Inc. It's more like and old concept of Linux company, I could not even remember the name because they all dead, leaving the sole survivor Red Hat, Inc. Canonical can not take the road of Red Hat, it will be like history repeating it self. We already secure the future of Linux in server arena, we also have a bright future in Mobile device and Tablet device but after decade of war, will we still loss in desktop arena?

Some group of free-open source people need to make revenue from distributing a friendly use desktop Linux operating system. You can say anything about Ubuntu, but the fact is Ubuntu is number one right now and Ubuntu help catapult the popularity of Linux.

I use several Linux Distribution. Each of them for certain advantage. CentOS for set and forget server, Debian for old computer, Slackware for even much more old machine, openSUSE for windows oriented user in my lab, and if my lab ready to move entirely to Linux, I will recommended Scientific Linux. But for first time Linux users, I install Ubuntu in their workstation. It's easy to deploy, a lot of package, prettier and faster that win7. User in my lab adapt more quickly with Ubuntu and over the time they forget they are using Linux.

If Canonical stop the support that make Ubuntu like this, then someone must taking over. There for I concern about Ubuntu/Canonical Ltd. revenue.

Mark Shuttleworth who started Ubuntu also donated a lage sum of money ( several Million $) to set the Ubuntu Foundation a community based organisation that is separate to Canonical that would continue the development etc of Ubuntu should anything happen to Canonical.

[KiwiNZ]

So it's mean Canonical do not have successful market product? What is their market product actually, is there any business article review about this?

Let say that if someday Canonical will be dying, will Ubuntu die with it? Does Ubuntu Community ready for this scenario or does any other distro ready to do what Ubuntu capable to do right now, because of the way Canonical approach Linux desktop and successful making Linux popular?

Canonical have several market strategies to move towards profitability however these are primarily in the Enterprise market place.

[Dry Lips]

I think Ubuntu is a very strong brand. When I got it a few months back,
I'd never heard of any other distro except Red Hat. (I had also read an
article about nameless distros that you could put on an usb-stick.) In my mind
Linux was equivalent with Ubuntu. I think that speaks volumes about
the strength of the Ubuntu brand.

Ubuntu isn't dying at all. If anything, I expect it to grow further!

[KiwiNZ]

I think Ubuntu is a very strong brand. When I got it a few months back,
I'd never heard of any other distro except Red Hat. (I had also read an
article about nameless distros that you could put on an usb-stick.) In my mind
Linux was equivalent with Ubuntu. I think that speaks volumes about
the strength of the Ubuntu brand.

Ubuntu isn't dying at all. If anything, I expect it to grow further!

The reports of Ubuntu's death are exaggerated and attributed to tall poppy syndrome.

"Tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term used in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers."

[29much]

Mark Shuttleworth who started Ubuntu also donated a lage sum of money ( several Million $) to set the Ubuntu Foundation a community based organisation that is separate to Canonical that would continue the development etc of Ubuntu should anything happen to Canonical.

I think, the support of business oriented company is make Ubuntu different with other Debian or Linux distro. To be able to success in desktop playing field, Linux need company oriented people, because most of the desktop user is office worker. I'm not sure the percentage of Ubuntu user for office workstation, but I think Ubuntu the best candidate to be use by simple user in office situation.

Without Canonical, Ubuntu will be just another Debian Distro, right.

[Dry Lips]

The reports of Ubuntu's death are exaggerated and attributed to tall poppy syndrome.

"Tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term used in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers."
Exactly!

And all this complaining about Unity... I've had a look at the Fedora forums,
and you get the same FUD-talk about gnome 3 killing Fedora, as we do here
about unity. I think its rubbish, that's what ;)

[29much]

Sorry if I reach this conclusion.

I think it will a long time before I see Linux will be use in all work station in office/university, and I think it will not be Ubuntu. Now with Canonical market strategies, I think they are moving out from desktop orientation. If Canonical can survive with current server service strategy, then Ubuntu just become another Linux distro support by non-evil company. The user experience in office environment will not become objective of Ubuntu, since Canonical have no interest to play in office workstation competition. Unless Cloud Computing will be very important in every office in the world, which is unlikely. That's the only reason office worker will use Ubuntu, to access the UEC.

If Canonical is not survive, then Ubuntu will be another Debian distro, where community keep fail to understand the business need of an workstation.

If I own company or my company ask me suggestion, I prefer to buy service to train simple worker how to use computer workstation efficiently compare to buy operating system license. And I think Canonical do not have any of guts to enter this kind of market 100%.

[KiwiNZ]

Sorry if I reach this conclusion.

I think it will a long time before I see Linux will be use in all work station in office/university, and I think it will not be Ubuntu. Now with Canonical market strategies, I think they are moving out from desktop orientation. If Canonical can survive with current server service strategy, then Ubuntu just become another Linux distro support by non-evil company. The user experience in office environment will not become objective of Ubuntu, since Canonical have no interest to play in office workstation competition. Unless Cloud Computing will be very important in every office in the world, which is unlikely. That's the only reason office worker will use Ubuntu, to access the UEC.

If Canonical is not survive, then Ubuntu will be another Debian distro, where community keep fail to understand the business need of an workstation.

If I own company or my company ask me suggestion, I prefer to buy service to train simple worker how to use computer workstation efficiently compare to buy operating system license. And I think Canonical do not have any of guts to enter this kind of market 100%.

To put it bluntly there is little or no money in the Business desktop market. From a hardware perspective resellers need to discount heavily to zero or negative margin just to win RFP's. And it is the same with the supply of any software, the money is in services and servers. Companies like HP, Dell etc will sell their SFF Desktops at a negative margin into SME or large Enterprise in order to pick up the Infrastructure , services and other business that is profitable.

If you are going to try and make it purely in the SME and large enterprise or SOHO markets on the Desktop alone be prepared to go broke many times.

[Dry Lips]

This is also a way of earning money:
(Although I'm not sure how much income it really generates)

https://one.ubuntu.com/plans/

--

Another thing. If you are worried about the survival of Ubuntu, why don't support
Canonical by getting Ubuntu stuff from the canonical shop? At least you'll feel
better! ;)

http://shop.canonical.com/

[29much]

To put it bluntly there is little or no money in the Business desktop market. From a hardware perspective resellers need to discount heavily to zero or negative margin just to win RFP's. And it is the same with the supply of any software, the money is in services and servers. Companies like HP, Dell etc will sell their SFF Desktops at a negative margin into SME or large Enterprise in order to pick up the Infrastructure , services and other business that is profitable.

If you are going to try and make it purely in the SME and large enterprise or SOHO markets on the Desktop alone be prepared to go broke many times.

I read somewhere, Ubuntu fan suggest Canonical to enter laptop/desktop manufacture business as partner of the manufacture company, sort of what the Google do with the Android. But Canonical do not dare or don't have resource to go in that direction.

So it's a capital game than. Get ready for negative margin in order to get rid of the competitor either by chocking them off or secure the contract first?

I think people use MS-OS because the operating system is matching with the service MS provide. Then Canonical will take the same approach right, Ubuntu will matching the Canonical service. Well then I hope the service canonical provide is related with document working not entertainment. Therefore there is a chance Ubuntu gain popularity in the office environment.

[KiwiNZ]

I read somewhere, Ubuntu fan suggest Canonical to enter laptop/desktop manufacture business as partner of the manufacture company, sort of what the Google do with the Android. But Canonical do not dare or don't have resource to go in that direction.

So it's a capital game than. Get ready for negative margin in order to get rid of the competitor either by chocking them off or secure the contract first?

I think people use MS-OS because the operating system is matching with the service MS-OS provide. Then Canonical will take the same approach right, Ubuntu will matching the Canonical service such as UEC etc. Well then I hope the service canonical provide is related with document working not entertainment. Therefore there is a chance Ubuntu gain popularity in the office environment.

Why?

Look at the Redhat model, they are making money. They pulled out of direct involvement in the loss making Home and SOHO markets and created and funded the Fedora project to take care of that. Redhat now concentrates on the profitable SME and Large Enterprise Markets for Server , middleware and value added infrastructure services.

Why risk investment in an already crowded low to zero margin hardware market? That makes no commercial sense what so ever.
Even the Server Hardware market is full with players like IBM scaling back.

[wep940]

First they take code written by others and packaged by others. Then they make a few cosmetic changes, market it, and...still lose money.

Can anyone say Microsoft? This sounds more like Microsoft than Linux. Linux is at least a COOPERATIVE colabaration of many people around the world. The entire idea of open-source is to NOT have to reinvent the wheel. The entire idea of the Linux community is to take readily available open-source programs, modify them if necessary, and package them into the OS.

[Johnsie]

I don't think Ubuntu will ever have good incoming revenue. I think it's more of a rich boys toy that Mark has fun hobbying with, but realistically he doesn't seem to care if it's profitable or not.

Somthing like Unity wouldn't come from someone who was serious about making money, it would come from someone who wants to experiment.

Serious companies do the R&D, testing and then release the product when it is of a high enough standard of quality. With 10.04 Ubuntu are releasing a product that is unfinished and not very intuitive. They have stated that it will be at least 11.10 before Unity is properly ready. Sounds like a hobbyist project rather than a serious business project.

Does Unity look like something you would see in offices? In my opinion, no.

Revenue? I don't think so. Hobby project, maybe.

[Dr. C]

I don't think Ubuntu will ever have good incoming revenue. I think it's more of a rich boys toy that Mark has fun hobbying with, but realistically he doesn't seem to care if it's profitable or not.

Somthing like Unity wouldn't come from someone who was serious about making money, it would come from someone who wants to experiment.

Serious companies do the R&D, testing and then release the product when it is of a high enough standard of quality. With 10.04 Ubuntu are releasing a product that is unfinished and not very intuitive. They have stated that it will be at least 11.10 before Unity is properly ready. Sounds like a hobbyist project rather than a serious business project.

Does Unity look like something you would see in offices? In my opinion, no.

Revenue? I don't think so. Hobby project, maybe.

I would not call 10.04 an unfinished product far from it. It is the LTS release. Releasing unity on 11.04 makes a lot of sense so that it is mature by 12.04 the next LTS release.

As someone who uses Ubuntu for productive purposes I am staying with 10.04 LTS on my main computer until the 12.04 LTS.

[cariboo]

I don't think Ubuntu will ever have good incoming revenue. I think it's more of a rich boys toy that Mark has fun hobbying with, but realistically he doesn't seem to care if it's profitable or not.

Somthing like Unity wouldn't come from someone who was serious about making money, it would come from someone who wants to experiment.

Serious companies do the R&D, testing and then release the product when it is of a high enough standard of quality. With 10.04 Ubuntu are releasing a product that is unfinished and not very intuitive. They have stated that it will be at least 11.10 before Unity is properly ready. Sounds like a hobbyist project rather than a serious business project.

Does Unity look like something you would see in offices? In my opinion, no.

Revenue? I don't think so. Hobby project, maybe.

There is R&D, witness user testing, to see where users are having problems with Unity, and as far as testing goes, what do you think we are doing?

[29much]

Look at the Redhat model, they are making money. They pulled out of direct involvement in the loss making Home and SOHO markets and created and funded the Fedora project to take care of that.


Is this Canonical business model? I think there is high rivalry betwen Debian community with Red Hat Community. Red Hat striping out the numbers of package to make it much more controllable distro. But it make Red Hat is not popular compare to Debian. And about desktop experience, I only use old version of RedHat/Mandrake. Now I only use Centos. I still can taste the hardness to adapt with red hat desktop experience in CentOS, even with Gnome Desktop. I do not know about Scientific Linux, Fedora or other Red Hat variant, but base on popularity I think it's hard to expect Red Hat will become popular desktop, because I think their philosophy in Fedora is to make fedora as testing field, rather than finishing product.

Ubuntu have a good start, making desktop experience as the main objective. If Canonical want to copy Red Hat, will it Ubuntu facing the same popularity as Fedora, only a side show project. Why fedora is not become number one in popularity even though it base on the most commercial success version of Linux

The stories goes like this, My University Install Red Hat in all computers in my department. The student, highly categorized as geek, reluctant to accept that because they can not easily find application to replace software available in MS-OS (back then there is no sudo apt-get install) and the desktop experience is stiff, as geek tend to tweaking out the desktop GUI.

I've seen ordinary people easily navigate them self in Ubuntu desktop, but I never seen ordinary user use fedora or scientific linux. Is it easier as Ubuntu?

[29much]

There is R&D, witness user testing, to see where users are having problems with Unity, and as far as testing goes, what do you think we are doing?

Exactly this is my point, how Ubuntu/Canonical Ltd, can cash in with something like the Ubuntu Experience not with the server service. If Ubuntu concern that much about the desktop experience, the work should pay back with cash. Not only the money will finance the future project but it also importantly crippling out the enemy.

The reason Ubuntu so popular is not because Ubuntu contribute for stabil kernel. There are so many advance people work in that area, and Linux already the most stable and usable kernel in the earth, I think. Ubuntu mainly polish Debian Linux to make humanly user experience. This is the main reason Linux loss in desktop computer, right. And Ubuntu effort already win Linux some favor in desktop computer.

Obviously MS do not become rich because of selling desktop OS. But because of so many computer using win-OS they can easily cash in by provide service that easily matching the operating system.

I guess the winning formula for Linux is : easy to use, professional look desktop + enterprise service.

I think, popular desktop is the key in to cashing out more from enterprise service, since the enterprise already use Linux as workstation OS, why not the service also.

So I hope Canonical and other Linux company not only winning in the enterprise service area but also in desktop experience.

Cheers.

[29much]

Does Unity look like something you would see in offices? In my opinion, no.

Revenue? I don't think so. Hobby project, maybe.

We've seen face book in the office, why not Unity. We've even seen FreeCell in the office. Try to separate simple entertainment from office worker, then you will make them go crazy. Office worker convenience plus convince the boss is the key for office choice of workstation operating system. I never meet office worker who never try make their desktop and cubicle become cute, except for the engineer desk. The office worker will bring their preference of operating system in the office to home when they children will be introduced to Linux.

Revenue not coming from the workstation, but the service that follow after Linux enter the office. If the decision maker in the office already familiar and see happy worker with the Linux desktop, the will welcome other Linux service.

In my case, I need stable easy to use Linux desktop to convince my boss to full migrate to Linux. He always complain about buying MS crazy license (and antivirus) but still reluctant to migrate because of no user friendly Linux in front of him. No matter how hard I talk about GNU/Linux stability, the GUI is always the first key in.

As matter of fact, I think Unity need to make boring look for old people and grumpy boss. Let the young and hard work worker use the fun version.

[duanedesign]

Serious companies do the R&D, testing and then release the product when it is of a high enough standard of quality.

That is generally not how open source software is developed. Read the Cathedral and Bazaar, specifically the section on Release Early, Release Often (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/ar01s04.html).

[wep940]

I sure hope nobody took my previous post as meaning Canocical was looking like Microsoft! I meant that the previous posters post sounded more like Microsoft, and that Ubuntu and Canocical where following the Linux "blueprint". I've also read a post or two that makes it sound like they don't know that Ubuntu has a server version and that it is VERY popular. Also, the post about R&D - what does the poster think happens - Canocical just releases something without (1) research being done prior to know what is needed and maybe somethings that people want are included and (2) it's not tested????? Of course R&D is done. Of course testing is done.

I know that since they are a moderator, cariboo907 replied in a very professional manor. They have more patience than me - I would have been a little "meaner" in my reply, as I assume the previous posts made most if not all the moderators a little angry. I have to hand it to you, cariboo907, because you handled it in a professional manor and didn't let emotions get in there. I admire you and the other moderators, and everyone else behind the scenes who work tirelessly on Ubuntu to make it the best Linux out there.

[KiwiNZ]

I don't think Ubuntu will ever have good incoming revenue. I think it's more of a rich boys toy that Mark has fun hobbying with, but realistically he doesn't seem to care if it's profitable or not.

Somthing like Unity wouldn't come from someone who was serious about making money, it would come from someone who wants to experiment.

Serious companies do the R&D, testing and then release the product when it is of a high enough standard of quality. With 10.04 Ubuntu are releasing a product that is unfinished and not very intuitive. They have stated that it will be at least 11.10 before Unity is properly ready. Sounds like a hobbyist project rather than a serious business project.

Does Unity look like something you would see in offices? In my opinion, no.

Revenue? I don't think so. Hobby project, maybe.

Mark Shuttleworth has established and built several successful IT Enterprises and amassed a considerable fortune doing so how many have you ?

If you don't like Ubuntu, don't use it, and don't come here and insult those who have contributed countless hours,days, weeks to bring it to the users.

[Johnsie]

I do quite well in my job thankyou very much. I do aid work in Honduras helping kids and it's not really one of my goals to be a millionaire. I've been doing that on and off since 1998 when Hurricane Mitch hit Central America. The next project we are going to do there is building a school in the mountains near La Esperanza. To pay for me to get there I do programming for people and it covers all of my costs. Many rich people have hobbies, including Richard Branson and the late Steve Fossett who did all kinds of weird and wonderful things. Stephen Hawking is a genius and some of the things he has done as hobby projects have also been pretty interesting. Sometimes they have been successful with their hobby projects and sometimes not. I never said that people don't do any work, just that in Open Source it is not always easy to enforce ISO level standards. In professional software development your job is on the line, but when you are working as a hobbyist, which many developers, including myself do, there is alot less pressure to do things to high detail and perfection. You're doing it in your free time, not to put bread on the table.I've seen so many projects where people get mad and just fork the software (sometimes good, sometimes bad). I think the work many hobbyists who involved in free software is very good and I would never want to undermine that because there is alot of really good open source stuff out there. Sometimes it takes a little more to get a quality product rolled out. That's why companies like Microsoft and Apple have been so successful. I think Ubuntu has potential, which is why I've been using it for some years, but being a millionaire certainly doesn't automatically make all your decisions right (Windows Vista cough cough). People harshly criticised Vista and the result of that was that Windows 7, a much better and more efficient product than Vista.

[earthpigg]

That is generally not how open source software is developed. Read the Cathedral and Bazaar, specifically the section on Release Early, Release Often (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/ar01s04.html).

very interesting read, thank you. being that the book is over a decade old, perhaps i should have read it a decade ago? :P

he put together lots of concepts i'd heard about before - but never in a single coherent fashion:

-"given enough eyes, all bugs are shallow" or however that was originally put, and how it applies to deep versus shallow software flaws.
-Delphi effect.
-the phenomenon of the usability of most pre-service-pack windows releases, or most first release apple devices.
-bunch of other stuff that is still churning in my brain.

[bapoumba]

Due to multiple reports, I think this thread is better closed.